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[SilentK]

iakus wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

After two years.
Shepard : "  Yo Ash/ kaidan , what's up ? It's been a long time !!!!  ":innocent:

-----____________----

Ash:  What happened, Shepard?  We all thought you were dead!

Shepard:  Ash!  Thank goodness you're all right!  Listen, the Collectors are behind the abductions, they're working with the Reapers!  We have to warn the Alliance!  Find Tali, she can confi...

Bioware:  Assuming direct control

Shepard:  Hey Ash, long time no see.  Wanna join Cerberus?  It'll be just like old times.

Ash:  What?  You traitor!  I can't believe I helped you steal an Alliance warship from the Citadel!

Well, these two have about summed up how I feel about the way in which my shep responded. She was waiting for Kaidan, worried that he might be hurt. No, "You are ok! I was so worried about you! I have missed you so much".

Oh well... I'm a romantic sap so that kind of thing might just work for me. But I write it of as her having a brain-freeze when she goes " It's been too long, how is it?". Poor girl, it isn't easy juggling a relationship and galaxy-saving at the same time   =)

[CyberDirectorFreedom]

Yes I am. I realise that you have been gone for 2 years and all, and you just show up like nothing happened. But you were dead. DEAD. No coma, you weren't just gone, you were dead. I can't see why you don't just tell him/her that. And if you romanced them, and they thought you were dead, I'd think they'd be happy to see you alive, not act like a douche. And sure, you work for Cerberus. They brought you back to life. They want to fight the reapers. They give you the equipment to fight them. They have the resources to back you up. You don't work for them because you like them or what they stand for, you work for them because it's the best way to fight the reapers. They are willing to give you whatever you need to fight. If Ashley/Kaiden were in that same position (which they wouldn't be because they're not as good as you) they would make the same choice. Shepard could do lots of good there. Who cares who they are. Shepards looking at the big picture.

Any way, way off topic. Yes. I definitely want a damn apology.



Also, Shepard does try to get in contact with Ashley/Kaidan. If memory serves, when you ask Anderson about them, he tells you they're on some top secret mission, and you can't contact them. Also, why should you have to contact them. They find out that you're alive and they don't try to contact you. Why should you try when they wont.


You also only get the email if you're in a relationship with them. Friends get no explanation.

Modifié par CyberDirectorFreedom, 18 juin 2011 - 11:50 .

[Phategod1]

Damn Straight and Kaiden's little e-mail about his date needs some explaining too. (Too my female shepard)

And know that I think of it, Ashley left my main Male Shepard high and dry, while Liara recovered my body? I'd love to see a Three way confrontation between Ash, Liara, and my new love Jack.

[Lunatic LK47]

Ottemis wrote...

After all they've been through in the first game, and after romancing Kai/Ash, I'd have expected them to trust in Shep's sense of wrong and right. And even though being with Cerberus is a dire thing indeed, if you tell them you've got a good reason to stick with them atm, then it's not at all about Cerberus, it's about your motivation for staying with them and trusting it to be enough of a reason to.

As such, I am disappoint. Being blinded by emotions is one thing, but they're basicly insulting Shep's character, that ain't ok in my book. Shep shouldn't have to explain, and having been able to properly explain on Horizon would actually have made this all worse in my mind.
Bit sad that you get 'more love' from the rest of your former squaddies... the fact that you do get that love should also have been a hint to Kai/Ash if you ask me.

Also, they didn't have to do it this way. Ash and Kai are both tied up in their own stuff, same with Liara (only she doesn't hate your ass for being with Cerb). Could have ended on a better note on Horizon without being able to recruit them.

Quoted for truth here.

[Antivenger]

Made Nightwing, "Where Eagles Dare" Chapter 9.

"I know that," John rubbed his eyes. "It hurt to hear it coming from you Ash, like some kind of betrayal. I expect it from al Jilani, Udina or the Council. But you and I, we had something. Damn that, we havesomething. It's just that, every one of my old teammates was ready to help me when I asked them. Garrus, Tali, Liara, even Wrex helped me out."

"Everyone else?" Ash whispered. "That's funny sir. Last timeI checked, Liara didn't take a nicely prepared speech about how the Reaper's were just your fatigued delusions onto the stand at your funeral, and then decide to delete it and tell the truth. Tali wasn't the one who broke that rat bastard Udina's jaw when he tried to discredit you in front a hundred cameras. Wrex didn't get laughed at when he tried to tell the Council about the message Sovereign gave us onVirmire. And if you check the records, Garrus Vakarian didn't spend a month in New Bethesda Naval Hospital, doped up to the gills, for a 'PostTraumatic Stress related psychotic breakdown'."

"Ash…" Shepard couldn't look at her.

"Ithought I could carry on your work, but there was no one to help," she was on the verge of tears. "Liara went off on some quest without tellingme where she was going, Wrex took the first transport back to Tuchanka,Tali hitched a ride on a patrol frigate heading out near the Migrant Fleet and Garrus just disappeared. Joker wouldn't even talk to me, spenthis days getting wasted at Chora's Den, wallowing in self-loathing whenI needed someone who could corroborate my reports."

"I…didn't know."

Ashwas too deep in her memories, half of them repressed into the darkest corners of her mind. "Udina offered me a ticket straight to Officer Candidate School if I just shut up. I almost slogged him a second time. Ikept going, with ridicule raining down from every general, admiral and self proclaimed geth expert from the Citadel to Illium. Eventually, I just gave up, went to the Embassy Lounge and spent half an hour crying my eyes out over a dozen glasses of premium vodka. One drunken barfight and a hushed up arrest later, and hey presto, one month in a padded cell."

She paced up and down, her tears now flowing freely. "Betrayal? I was loyal to you, even in death. Hurt? Hurt is when you curl up in a ball, and you hear your mother telling you that it will be alright, and you want so desperately to believe her. Hurt is when you feel weak and pathetic, when you see someone's face every night in your dreams," she faced Shepard again. "And then…you see his face, and he's really there, and he tells you that he doesn't want to re-open old wounds, as if those few precious nights were a bad memory that you both want to forget.

Just a glipmse into the VS' point of view, assuming you romanced them.

Made Nightwing is a damn good writer.

Modifié par Antivenger, 18 juin 2011 - 11:28 .

[MegaBadExample]

I got an email. Shepard's lines on Horizon were horrible *shivers*
Anyway I won't hold a grudge.

[elearon1]

It had to have been a real shock for Ash to see me alive and with Cerberus of all things. She really wasn't in a position to sit and let it sink in, so she reacted harshly, without thinking. Shep would need to talk to her face to face about it, and let her know it hurt, but she'd understand and forgive; after everything they had been through together, how could she not?

(actually, it would probably start with a fight, "F you, you weren't there when I needed someone on my side!", "What the hell did you expect, after two years with nothing and now 'surprise, I'm back and I'm with Cerberus' ... Cerberus!?" And it would go on from there until it finally ran its course and wore itself out. Then they'd sit down, have a drink, and start asking the "catching up" questions friends who, after being apart for so long and during so much, tend to do.

Modifié par elearon1, 18 juin 2011 - 11:49 .

[K_Tabris]

I can see them both apologizing to Shepard once the ice has been broken. It certainly would make the chance of rekindling a romance greater. I also think most Shepards are big enough to handle Ash and Kaidan thinking for themselves, but many people here seem to RP their Shepards otherwise.

[CyberDirectorFreedom]

Antivenger wrote...

Made Nightwing, "Where Eagles Dare" Chapter 9.

"I know that," John rubbed his eyes. "It hurt to hear it coming from you Ash, like some kind of betrayal. I expect it from al Jilani, Udina or the Council. But you and I, we had something. Damn that, we havesomething. It's just that, every one of my old teammates was ready to help me when I asked them. Garrus, Tali, Liara, even Wrex helped me out."

"Everyone else?" Ash whispered. "That's funny sir. Last timeI checked, Liara didn't take a nicely prepared speech about how the Reaper's were just your fatigued delusions onto the stand at your funeral, and then decide to delete it and tell the truth. Tali wasn't the one who broke that rat bastard Udina's jaw when he tried to discredit you in front a hundred cameras. Wrex didn't get laughed at when he tried to tell the Council about the message Sovereign gave us onVirmire. And if you check the records, Garrus Vakarian didn't spend a month in New Bethesda Naval Hospital, doped up to the gills, for a 'PostTraumatic Stress related psychotic breakdown'."

"Ash…" Shepard couldn't look at her.

"Ithought I could carry on your work, but there was no one to help," she was on the verge of tears. "Liara went off on some quest without tellingme where she was going, Wrex took the first transport back to Tuchanka,Tali hitched a ride on a patrol frigate heading out near the Migrant Fleet and Garrus just disappeared. Joker wouldn't even talk to me, spenthis days getting wasted at Chora's Den, wallowing in self-loathing whenI needed someone who could corroborate my reports."

"I…didn't know."

Ashwas too deep in her memories, half of them repressed into the darkest corners of her mind. "Udina offered me a ticket straight to Officer Candidate School if I just shut up. I almost slogged him a second time. Ikept going, with ridicule raining down from every general, admiral and self proclaimed geth expert from the Citadel to Illium. Eventually, I just gave up, went to the Embassy Lounge and spent half an hour crying my eyes out over a dozen glasses of premium vodka. One drunken barfight and a hushed up arrest later, and hey presto, one month in a padded cell."

She paced up and down, her tears now flowing freely. "Betrayal? I was loyal to you, even in death. Hurt? Hurt is when you curl up in a ball, and you hear your mother telling you that it will be alright, and you want so desperately to believe her. Hurt is when you feel weak and pathetic, when you see someone's face every night in your dreams," she faced Shepard again. "And then…you see his face, and he's really there, and he tells you that he doesn't want to re-open old wounds, as if those few precious nights were a bad memory that you both want to forget.

Just a glipmse into the VS' point of view, assuming you romanced them.

Made Nightwing is a damn good writer.

Don't know what that story is, but Wrex left after Saren died. He only finds out the Normandy blew up in Mass Effect 2. Just saying.

[dahoughtonuk]

To me it's obvious why the VS can't join you. One's an L2 biotic. Usually psychotically unstable. The other is the other Alliance scapegoat. In the end I can understand the attack, but Williams gave me a reason to calm down afterwords, saying that you knew her rep and subtly stated she just couldn;t join with cerberus she'd never be trusted again. So as bad as it was I found her actions more forgivable.  

Basically joining you means they'd never be trusted again. However while Garrus and Tali don't trust Cerberus, both have reasons to join.
Just realised why Ashley was the more down to earth of the two. Kaidan had been fighting. He probably had an intense migraine.

[Skirata129]

I'm not really expecting anything. neither ashley nor kaidan did anything for me. If I'd had to sacrifice both of them on virmire, I wouldn't have been too upset.

[Akizora]

Arf, lots of catching up to do in this thread...anyway.

Unless my memory fails me, you can head to the Citadel directly after Freedoms Progress and talk to Anderson and then when you want help from the alliance they turn you down..If you ask about getting in touch with Ashley/Kaidan he refuses to let you or tell you where they are...So basically, my Shepard was shot down by the Alliance instantly and was left with no choice but to go with Cerberus since they wouldn't even hear him out. Only Anderson would hear him out.

It also makes sense to go straight from the lazarusbase to the cerberus base and then hear about Freedoms Progress being attacked, it all happens fast and you're not left with much time to think or make any calls.

All in all it was handled badly, there was no way to part ways neutrally or on good terms. At the very least there should have been a way for both sides to acknowledge eachothers feelings and just hear Ash say something like "I hope you're right, I don't trust Cerberus..I trusted you, I hope I still can.".

So in Mass Effect 3 I do want to have a conversation about it so my Shepard (any everyone elses Shepard) can express his feelings on the matter. Whether he wants to apologize or wants an apology, both players are deserving of at least expressing this desire to Ash/Kaid.

[Doveberry]

I actually understand the VS' reaction. Also, Kaidan's explanation e-mail was very moving and genuine. I expect the subject to come up in ME3, but my Shepard has long since forgiven Kaidan.

[Exolyps]

I never cared much for my VS (Ashley) in the first game to start with, she was way to racist for my taste. So that she turned out the way she did in ME2 wasn't that big of a bummer. One would think that she'd atleast give me the chance to explain it a little further considering what we've been through in ME1, being some of the few who knew about the Reapers and ****.

[ladyvader]

Phategod1 wrote...

Damn Straight and Kaiden's little e-mail about his date needs some explaining too. (Too my female shepard)

And know that I think of it, Ashley left my main Male Shepard high and dry, while Liara recovered my body? I'd love to see a Three way confrontation between Ash, Liara, and my new love Jack.

Why does Kaidan need to explain that he finally allowed his friend to talk him into moving on?  That makes no sense.  Shepard was dead.  Shepard's LI most likely watched Shepard get spaced from their escape pod.  I know one of the comics has Liara at the window watching that happen.  So I'm going to say that Ash/Kaidan did as well.  

[Antivenger]

ladyvader wrote...

Phategod1 wrote...

Damn Straight and Kaiden's little e-mail about his date needs some explaining too. (Too my female shepard)

And know that I think of it, Ashley left my main Male Shepard high and dry, while Liara recovered my body? I'd love to see a Three way confrontation between Ash, Liara, and my new love Jack.

Why does Kaidan need to explain that he finally allowed his friend to talk him into moving on?  That makes no sense.  Shepard was dead.  Shepard's LI most likely watched Shepard get spaced from their escape pod.  I know one of the comics has Liara at the window watching that happen.  So I'm going to say that Ash/Kaidan did as well.  

ಠ_ಠ

Wat?

Who the hell decided that was a good idea!? The whole point of an escape pod is to keep you safe, a window would be structural weakness!

Ugh, to stay on topic, I never saw Horizon as being that bad. They yell at you, you can't respond without saying how completely awesome Cerberus is, and scene ends. It's obvious there's gonna be reconciliation by the time ME3 comes, so why pipe on and on about how the VS were acting like douchebags (which, is untrue).

[Battlepope190]

Ash has nothing to explain to me; Horizon was awkward all around for everyone; I'm just glad she's back with me.

[V-rex]

I want there to be a major emotional scene where both characters apologize for Horizon.
Because whether you want to believe it or not, everyone was at fault there.

Ashley was too emotional, Shepard not emotional enough. Ashley wasn't prepared to listen, Shepard did an awful job of trying to explain.

Both of them are at fault and both of them need to apologize. Ashley had every right to be confused and upset about everything that happened, just as Shepard had every reason to feel alone and hurt afterwards.
If they can just have a big decent apology and then move on, I'd appreciate it.

That said, I honestly don't think Ashley needs to explain herself or apologize in any way. James Shepard always liked her defiant attitude and wouldn't have her any other way.

Modifié par V-rex, 19 juin 2011 - 06:35 .

[Schneidend]

Shepard and Ash stuck to their guns and couldn't reconcile the paths they'd chosen at the time. There's nothing for anybody to apologize for, really.

The scene on Horizon was dramatically potent. Sorry, but the story can't be sunshine, roses, and understanding every minute.

[atheelogos]

100k wrote...

Damn right I am.

this.... and the email wasn't good enough. But really though they better let us argue about this cuz I'm still pissed they didn't trust my word.

[AerisBru]

AngelicMachinery wrote...
It really worries me that people here seem unable to understand that other people have feelings.  You’ve put Kaidan/Ash through a lot.  You died,   they grieved,  and they grieved hard.  They’ve just started getting their lives straightened out and Shepard struts in and acts like NOTHING has happened.   “Hey,  it’s been a while.”  Is the typical line, and not only that you show up with Cerberus a group that you fought constantly on your previous missions.  What?  Do you expect them to leap on you and cover you with kisses or something?  No,  it’s their right to be pissed at Shepard it is a HUMAN reaction.  

This. Not only a human reaction, the MOST REASONABLE reaction in the game. Everybody else was just "oh, Shepard, you're alive, how nice" as if death meant a minor sickness or didn't care about it at all. 

If there is a proper apology, it's SHEPARD's apology to them, for the lack of explanation and the idiotic answers in Horizon.

[Sister Helen]

ohupthis wrote...

One serious point everyone is missing though, how do you think our Shepard feels about being 'rebuilt' using Cerberus hardware? Add that to your conversations with your love interests, during your next meeting!

Myself, I'm kinda disgusted by the inclusion of cybernetics to attain a fully functional 'human' existence, and then to stand in front of our LI's, and expect them to understand? Give me a break!!!

This particular subject is going to take a good, long time to resolve, and hopefully, Bioware will carry this through multiple conversations, in order to satisfy the subject. Not just fluff it out.

Hmmm...

Point A: Shep was dead. 

Point B: Shep is alive.  

He's probably not going to protest too strongly that Cerberus put in cybernetics to get him from Point A to Point B.  But heck, I'll bite.  Here's how the conversation would go: 

Shep:  How dare you use cybernetics and crap like that to bring me back to life!  You had no right!
TIM:  ... Are you kidding me? ... You were dead.  Even the Alliance didn't bother retrieving your corpse.  I guess that makes your corpse "salvage."
Shep:  It's the principle of the thing!  I'd rather be dead.  Or meat in tubes.
TIM:  (Coldly)  It can still be arranged.

[BeastMTL]

All I know is that I'm spacing the VS without a really good apology. Don't trust me ? Fine.. Get off MY ship.

[78stonewobble]

"Dramatically potent" my ass ...

There was no reason to even give "us" (the player) any choice via conversation in the scene at all.

They basically all give zero explanation and works only to confront ashley/kaidan.

Horribly forced and non realistic.

I could understand a huge confrontation via a renegade "screw you" break up option. Plus argument over cerberus in generel but letting us explain ourselves.


PS: I just played through the scene again and... well ... it's ridiculous...

PPS: Notice how many of the other squadmate conversersations is also about your dislike / distrust of cerberus yet these options are utterly lacking in the conversation with ashley/kaidan AND anderson.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 19 juin 2011 - 05:33 .

[Clonedzero]

im guessing since this has gone on for 10 pages the VS apologists have already swarmed in and said it was shepards fault?