388 réponses à ce sujet

[Funkcase]

sponge56 wrote...

Oblivious wrote...

Collider wrote...

It's not that they question you and don't join you.
It's HOW they do it. Shepard is called a traitor to the Alliance.

As far as the Alliance is concerned Shepard faked his/her death and joined a criminal organization. If a Navy officer faked his death and showed up 2 years later in the Taliban I don't give a damn what his reasons are, he's a traitor to his country and his friends.

How fantasticaly close minded

How is that close minded?

[skcih-deraj]

Considering the higher up argument... Ashley and or Kaidan was in the Terminus systems on a human colony. Ever think they didn't get told about they meeting between the councilor Anderson or Udina, until she got back in council space?

And incase some of you didn't know, Cerberus is a pro-human organization. They only reason Shepard is working with aliens is becuase they need they're help (for now) and in the long run after the suicide mission is over Shepard's teams importance kinda declines a bit.

[FenrisDeSolar]

No. I'd be pissed if they *did* apologise. If anything, Shepard should apologise.

[tsunderes]

MyOpinionSucks wrote...

skcih-deraj wrote...

Oh I dunno, when you mean reason do mean like one in which Shep comes back from th dead, doesn't even bother to let Kaiden/Ashley know thry're alive and working with a terrorist organization ? The same organization that in ME1 turned an entire colony into husks, killed an admiral and experimented on rachni?

Speak for yourself. The first thing I did after getting the Normandy was go meet with Anderson, report to the council (who started talking about capital punishment), and ask after Ashley. Anderson, by the way, told me she was on a secret classified mission and very politely asked me to sod off. So I have the not contacting her thing covered.

And while I stood there with Garrus and Mordin after saving her life from the very clear and obvious threat of the Collectors (who were using husks, by the way, which was tangible evidence that they were working for the Reapers) and calmly explained that I didn't take orders from Cerberus and was only accepting their help because nobody else was doing anything, yeah I did get a little miffed when she flew off the handle and called me a traitor. And, frankly, an email isn't enough to make up for that.

So, yeah, an admission that she was wrong would be welcome. I don't want it to become a whole big thing because to be honest it's trivial in context, really, but she's got some work to do if she wants to get back in my good books. 

Agreed. As soon as I was given to chance I space raced off to talk to Anderson, and my shep always asked after Kaiden first when given the option, but wasnt given very much information.

[AngelicMachinery]

If we’re simply talking about Kaidan/Ash, I don’t see it as much different. You disappeared for two whole years, and all that time they thought you were dead. You show up latter with a couple Cerberus buddies. What sort of conclusion is a logical person suppose to come to? The I was dead line doesn’t really help abate any concerns because frankly to anyone that wasn’t involved in the lazarus project will have to call bull. It just doesn’t make any lick of sense. This coupled with the possibility of the characters being involved romantically will only elevate the tension and the rage when Shepard swaggers back onto the stage causing all those dormant emotions to come back to the surface.

[Funkcase]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

skcih-deraj wrote...

Alien team mates or no you are still working for a pro-human agenda (hey could that be why they save a human colony?) terrorist organization. Now how do they react to that? In the first game your fighting against them. Your other ME1 squade mates (Garrus and Tali) even question it when they get on the ship. Tali does so on two occasions! When you meet her on Freedoms progress and when she gets back on the Normandy. Again if you save the collector base and she survives the mission. (So three times if you're keeping count)

But no hate for them right? Tali and Garrus are just a little nicer about your affiliation becuase you either saved them or saved them twice and got them safely on the ship and they had nothing else to do, but help Shepard.

Did I show up wearing a Cerberus T-shirt or did I show up with a trusted companion like Garrus? Don't you think that's worth at least a small question or two before jumping to conclusions?

And yes, Tali and Garrus did ask questions. That's my exact point. They also gave me the benefit of the doubt and came along to watch my back. Which is precisely the reason I wanted them to come along. To have people with me I could trust. And you have to admit Tali had much greater reason to mistrust the whole Cerberus thing than the VS did.

But If the VS ran off with Cerberus they would get court marshalled, the Alliance wouldn't let them work with Cerberus.

[Cutlass Jack]

Brodyaha wrote...

If you're talking about Tali and Garrus with regards to the alien friends, consider this: Tali didn't first join you on Freedom's Progress.  She joined you after another mission she was on went disasterously wrong, and she was pissed at the Admiralty Board.  Garrus wasn't in any shape to refuse Shepard's recruitment.  His squad was dead, half of Omega wanted him dead, and he got a missile to the head.  Of course he'd go with Shepard, given the option.

I was mad that they simply accepted Shepard was working with Cerberus.  Garrus mentions one time how we should have joined up with them sooner, which made me mad.  Obviously I never discussed thresher maws, husks, and Toombs with him.  At least Tali had more teeth to mention she was working for me because Cerberus had screwed up the flotilla.

Then Ashley and Kaidan call Shepard out on this, ask him/her to explain (which Shepard does very poorly indeed), and don't join because they have to report to the Alliance/Council; then people wish they could have Virmired both of them. Go figure.  <_<

I was actually talking about all four prior aliens on your team. Even Wrex was glad to see you. Tali would have joined immediately if she didn't have prior commitments, and said so. It wasn't doubt on her part. Not at all.

And Garrus' line was a joke, and he tells you so.

Understand, my complaint is not that Ashley didn't drop everything to join the crew. Completely understandable, just like it was with Tali. My problem is that she chewed me out without giving me the smallest benefit of the doubt. 

[Chignon]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

No, but, I will hopefully be given an apology for having the emotional range of a raisin.

[ladyvader]

Collider wrote...

It's not that they question you and don't join you.
It's HOW they do it. Shepard is called a traitor to the Alliance.

Even the alien led council says working for Cerberus is treason, a captial offense.  It's then when Anderson speaks up and stops that line of thought. 

I was fine with their apology via message.  Shepard has been gone for two years, but to Shepard it doesn't seem that long.  That is what happens when your are out in a coma like state for long periods of time. 

I hope we get a good conversation about what happened on Horizon.  Everytime someone tells Shepard to not trust Cerberus, I wish I had the option to say, "I don't"  We never got that option.  

[Badpie]

I really don't think their reaction on Horizon was that unbelievable to be honest. And they apologized in the email. I'd actually like a chance for my Shepard to say "I'm sorry for the way I acted too" because really they both could have done that better. Given the emotionally tense situation though it's not unthinkable for either of them to handle it badly.

And if you didn't romance them, I would still guess and hope that there would be some mutual apology and then a quick moving beyond it.

[skcih-deraj]

tsunderes wrote...

MyOpinionSucks wrote...

skcih-deraj wrote...

Oh I dunno, when you mean reason do mean like one in which Shep comes back from th dead, doesn't even bother to let Kaiden/Ashley know thry're alive and working with a terrorist organization ? The same organization that in ME1 turned an entire colony into husks, killed an admiral and experimented on rachni?

Speak for yourself. The first thing I did after getting the Normandy was go meet with Anderson, report to the council (who started talking about capital punishment), and ask after Ashley. Anderson, by the way, told me she was on a secret classified mission and very politely asked me to sod off. So I have the not contacting her thing covered.

And while I stood there with Garrus and Mordin after saving her life from the very clear and obvious threat of the Collectors (who were using husks, by the way, which was tangible evidence that they were working for the Reapers) and calmly explained that I didn't take orders from Cerberus and was only accepting their help because nobody else was doing anything, yeah I did get a little miffed when she flew off the handle and called me a traitor. And, frankly, an email isn't enough to make up for that.

So, yeah, an admission that she was wrong would be welcome. I don't want it to become a whole big thing because to be honest it's trivial in context, really, but she's got some work to do if she wants to get back in my good books. 

Agreed. As soon as I was given to chance I space raced off to talk to Anderson, and my shep always asked after Kaiden first when given the option, but wasnt given very much information.

@MyOpinionsucks and tsundres:

You do realize that Ash/Kaidan was in the terminus right? On that same colony where they also lost communications while installing the defense towers? So Anderson or the council/Udina whoever telepathicaly told them of Shepard's revival?

How were they supposed to know you spoke to Anderson? I didn't think I needed to bring up the downed comunications thing, but seeing as every one is inside their comfortible little box and cannot seem to think out side of it I must have had to.

Also since the Illusive man admits to having something to do with Horizon being attacked, isn't the VS's idea of not trusting Cerberus right off the bat, warrented?

Modifié par skcih-deraj, 17 juin 2011 - 05:43 .

[Collider]

Even the alien led council says working for Cerberus is treason, a captial offense. It's then when Anderson speaks up and stops that line of thought.

So do Ashley and Kaidan need to agree with whatever the Council says? Do you think they'd agree that Shepard should face capital punishment for working with Cerberus? No.

The word "traitor" has more meanings than what is simply is considered a capital offense by the council. It's always not the only things that Ashley and Kaidan said.

You only get the email of them apologizing when you romanced them.

[Cutlass Jack]

ladyvader wrote...

I hope we get a good conversation about what happened on Horizon.  Everytime someone tells Shepard to not trust Cerberus, I wish I had the option to say, "I don't"  We never got that option.  

We did. In the Tali joining conversation if I recall correctly. You can specifically say thats why you want her along.

And I certainly made it clear to TIM, Jacob and Miranda I didn't at various points.

[Funkcase]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Brodyaha wrote...

If you're talking about Tali and Garrus with regards to the alien friends, consider this: Tali didn't first join you on Freedom's Progress.  She joined you after another mission she was on went disasterously wrong, and she was pissed at the Admiralty Board.  Garrus wasn't in any shape to refuse Shepard's recruitment.  His squad was dead, half of Omega wanted him dead, and he got a missile to the head.  Of course he'd go with Shepard, given the option.

I was mad that they simply accepted Shepard was working with Cerberus.  Garrus mentions one time how we should have joined up with them sooner, which made me mad.  Obviously I never discussed thresher maws, husks, and Toombs with him.  At least Tali had more teeth to mention she was working for me because Cerberus had screwed up the flotilla.

Then Ashley and Kaidan call Shepard out on this, ask him/her to explain (which Shepard does very poorly indeed), and don't join because they have to report to the Alliance/Council; then people wish they could have Virmired both of them. Go figure.  <_<

I was actually talking about all four prior aliens on your team. Even Wrex was glad to see you. Tali would have joined immediately if she didn't have prior commitments, and said so. It wasn't doubt on her part. Not at all.

And Garrus' line was a joke, and he tells you so.

Understand, my complaint is not that Ashley didn't drop everything to join the crew. Completely understandable, just like it was with Tali. My problem is that she chewed me out without giving me the smallest benefit of the doubt. 

I see fans dont like characters being too realistic? The VS had the most realistic response. How would most people react if there friend (or lover) was dead for two years, and shows up out of nowhere working for a terrorist group? A enemy of the Alliance. If any of my friends died and turned up working for the Taliban or the IRA I would tear there throat out!

Atleast Ash and Kaidan had a opinion of there own, and didn't jump straight on Shepards d*ck like everyone else. Someone has to keep Shepard's ego in check, we are playing a marine here, not superman.

[AngelicMachinery]

Funkcase wrote...
 Someone has to keep Shepard's ego in check, we are playing a marine here, not superman.

Shepard isn't a marine anymore she is space Jesus.

[Dazaster Dellus]

I have to say that Ash/Kai did act completely disrespectful. I do think they should apologize. Disrespecting someone, calling them traitor, and completely tearing into them is not how I would expect someone to greet me after 2 years of thinking I was dead. Also they heard they heard Shep was alive prior to the Horizon meeting so that should have cushioned the blow/shock. They knew he would be there and who he would be with. Also they praise Shep at first and then they tear right into him. How about taking me to the side and then asking me why I am with Cerberus or pretending to work with Cerberus. If you really love me you would give me that benefit. If they still didn't believe me I would only need to take off my armor and show them the massive amount of scars from my entire body being reconstructed. Spare me the whole Shepard was the one wrong sentiment.

Modifié par Dazaster Dellus, 17 juin 2011 - 05:49 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

I believe they have nothing to apologize for.

[Pups_of_war_76]

Why should they apologize?

[AngelicMachinery]

Dazaster Dellus wrote...

I have to say that Ash/Kai did act completely disrespectful. I do think they should apologize. Disrespecting someone, calling them traitor, and completely tearing into them is not how I would expect someone to greet me after 2 years of thinking I was dead. Also she heard they heard Shep was alive prior to the Horizon meeting so that should have cushioned the blow/shock. They knew he would be there and who he would be with. Also they praise Shep at first and then they tear right into him. How about taking me to the side and then asking me why I am with Cerberus or pretending to work with Cerberus. If you really love me you would give me that benefit. If they still didn't believe me I would only need to take off my armor and show them the massive amount of scars from my entire body being reconstructed. Spare me the whole Shepard was the one wrong sentiment.

Love can only take so much,  two years of thinking someone is dead and having them appear out of the blue is enough to drive out the control anyone has over their emotions. 

[Chignon]

Collider wrote...

Even the alien led council says working for Cerberus is treason, a captial offense. It's then when Anderson speaks up and stops that line of thought.

So do Ashley and Kaidan need to agree with whatever the Council says? Do you think they'd agree that Shepard should face capital punishment for working with Cerberus? No.

The word "traitor" has more meanings than what is simply is considered a capital offense by the council. It's always not the only things that Ashley and Kaidan said.

You only get the email of them apologizing when you romanced them.

Instead of rhetoric questions, you may want to recall that Ashley and Kaidan are Alliance soldiers through and through. By joining Cerberus, Shepard betrayed the Alliance and everything they stood for as Ash/Kaidan put it. So yes, Shepard is a traitor in their eyes. If it walks like a duck and all that.

That there isn't an email for Shepards who haven't romanced Kaidan/Ashley is a general symptom in the ME universe, namely that a lot of character development and content is withheld if Shepard is not in a romance with a character.

[Cutlass Jack]

Funkcase wrote...

I see fans dont like characters being too realistic? The VS had the most realistic response. How would most people react if there friend (or lover) was dead for two years, and shows up out of nowhere working for a terrorist group? A enemy of the Alliance. If any of my friends died and turned up working for the Taliban or the IRA I would tear there throat out!

Realism? I tell you with all honesty that if the person I loved so much 'it was like losing a limb' came back from the dead to save my life, the first thing I would do is strip them naked and throw them to the ground for an extensive "mole check." After I felt their identity were properly confirmed I'd ask some very detailed questions. For my report of course.


That's entirely different from someone clearly working for a terrorist organization actively trying to kill you. Throat tearing would be encouraged in that case. But I'd hope you'd at least get proof they are working for said organization before you did. Like the aforementioned trying to kill you part.

[Alienmorph]

I guess we'll continue on the style of Horizon. A decent apology only for who 'manced them and then a quick dialogue for the others. There are, indeed, more important things to be worried about for Shep and Ash/Kaidan.

[ladyvader]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

ladyvader wrote...

I hope we get a good conversation about what happened on Horizon.  Everytime someone tells Shepard to not trust Cerberus, I wish I had the option to say, "I don't"  We never got that option.  

We did. In the Tali joining conversation if I recall correctly. You can specifically say thats why you want her along.

And I certainly made it clear to TIM, Jacob and Miranda I didn't at various points.

Anderson said it and so did the VS and we never got to respond to that.  Yes, you said to both Tali and Garrus you were glad they were with you because you wanted people you could trust.

@ Collider-Treason and traitor mean the same thing.  If you do an act of treason, you are a tratior.  Shepard knows that Cerberus is bad.  Especially, if you went through all the Cerberus missions in ME1.   Even the Alliance wanted to arrest Shepard and Hackett denied the request.  That info is in the Shadow Broker's dossiers. 

A lot of what was said on Horizon was from the shock of seeing Shepard with Cerberus and alive.  Being alive was the biggest shock and being with Cerberus didn't help that any.  I don't blame them for their reaction.  Shepard was DEAD!

EDIT:The only one that gave Shepard a nice welcome back was Liara and she knew why Shepard was with Cerberus.  Because she was the one that gave Shepard's body to them to rebuild.

Modifié par ladyvader, 17 juin 2011 - 05:57 .