388 réponses à ce sujet

[leggywillow]

Badpie wrote...

Some mature discussion about Horizon is needed. I don't think it's so much an "apology" from either side but just being able to move passed it.

I really hope they don't make Ash or Kaidan grovel an apology to Shepard just so some gamers can get an ego boost and keep thinking their Shepard is the greatest thing ever who does no wrong.

One of the whole reasons I ever like Ash or Kaidan is that if they had a different opinion, they shared it. They weren't doormatty little yes men, which unfortunately I think some people would prefer from their squadmates.

This.

It seems like I'm alone in thinking that Ash/Kaidan reacted very understandably on Horizon.  Even under normal, calm circumstances, Shepard is into some crazy stuff these days that merits suspicion.  Should they have given Shepard a chance to explain?  Yeah, probably, but who can honestly blame them for not being 100% reasonable after watching half a colony be suddenly (and a bit violently) abducted?  And the other half saved by a friend/lover who had been dead for 2 years?

Personally, Kaidan and Ashley were far more reasonable than I would have been under the circumstances.

I hope they address Horizon in ME3, and I hope it's more than just a "Look... about Horizon... I'm sorry".  Kaidan and Ashley have legitimate reasons to feel betrayed and confused, and I'd like Shepard to finally get the chance to explain and see them work it out.

[Oblivious]

Dazaster Dellus wrote...

It's been a few weeks but fromwhat I remember of the convo, Shep didn't really get the chance to explain himself. The last playthrough I did was with Ashley and all she did after the initial praise was toss barbs at Shep in which he had to try to defend himself against. It didn't even really start off civil.

www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch

As you can see the entire scene was a joke. The first one was the most realistic (funny how the neutral/renegade options are more diplomatic than the paragon choices) but its obvious the entire scene was a waste of time. I'd rather Ash/Kaidan not show up than have them be railroaded so far<_<

[wexorius]

Screw both of them i killed kaidan in 1st game anyway and i will drop ashley in nearest balck hole when i will fly on normandy anyway

[wexorius]

it's funny how people are mad on kaidan and ashley after second game

[nickkcin11]

[quote]Dazaster Dellus wrote...

[quote]nickkcin11 wrote...

[quote]Dazaster Dellus wrote...

[quote]Funkcase wrote...


[/quote]
@Dellus
Stop using huge exaggerations as bad evidence. "I could beat the **** out of my wife for cheating on me!!! That would be realistic but not right." Whoa, you think that is a realistic response... you my friend watch way too much TV. Shepard acted like an idiot and got the reaction he/she deserved.

[/quote]

Ok wow, where do I start with this one?! If you love someone and they tell you(if actually given the chance) that they are working with(not for) a bad group for the survival of mankind and you still completely trash them, that is not love nor is it good. Also, you are wrong. Shepard was not still a Spectre, unless you actually went to Anderson and got reinstated. Once he died his Spectre status ended. Also, he was already with Cerberus so the Alliance already wanted nothing to do with him. Without Cereberus' help bringing him to life and giving him a ship there would be no Shep. So what you are asking for would have required for the game to be completely different. We can "What if" all day. Given the story of the actual game though your arguments are wrong.

Lastly, Stop telling me to stop exaggerating when you can't even quote my post right. The example is exactly the same. Slightly more extreme but exactly the same none-the-less(Even if you did butcher it completely). How about actually reading it next time.
[/quote]
You know I butched it on purpose right...

And no, Shepard handled the situation like **** and got what he deserved. If I wer Ash, I would have shot him for derping around again. Goddamn, between Horizon and talking to Wrex, Shepard is really stupid sometimes. And Shepard should have left Cerberus after they revived him. He doesn't owe them ****. And it looks like they were actually evil and are now working with the Reapers so Ash was right. And I went to see Anderson first so...

Sorry for the retarded quoting I've done, it was too long to keep quoting though.

Modifié par nickkcin11, 17 juin 2011 - 06:57 .

[78stonewobble]

The conversation options on horizon was just so damn silly, considering the situation, I'd prefer to ignore them...

One would think with three choices they could have hit within a somewhat realistic responce with one of them but nooooo....

Heck garrus was greeted friendlier...

[ashlover mark 2]

Dazaster Dellus wrote...

nickkcin11 wrote...

Dazaster Dellus wrote...

Funkcase wrote...

I see fans dont like characters being too realistic? The VS had the most realistic response. How would most people react if there friend (or lover) was dead for two years, and shows up out of nowhere working for a terrorist group? A enemy of the Alliance. If any of my friends died and turned up working for the Taliban or the IRA I would tear there throat out!

Atleast Ash and Kaidan had a opinion of there own, and didn't jump straight on Shepards d*ck like everyone else. Someone has to keep Shepard's ego in check, we are playing a marine here, not superman.

To each his own. You can't speak for everyone though. People react in different ways. Some not as good and civil as others. Doesn't make them right.

Also to follow up on your example. If you were to find out your friend was working for the Taliban or some other terrorist group you would tear their throat out huh?! Well what if he or she had a good reason. Like saving mankind from annihilation. Sounds a little like someone else we know huh? But nevermind. You would have torn their throat out on sight instead of talking it out and then tearing their throat out if they were indeed bad people. We are doomed.

Yes because as we know that seems like the logical thing the Taliban (or Cerberus) would do... After what Ash saw what Cerberus was capable of, I'm glad she didn't trust them. I wish Shepard could have denied them too. It's not like the Suicide mission couldn't have been done with the original squad and a bunch of marines. Shepard was still a SPECTRE, he could do whatever he wanted.

The point is Ash reacted in a civilized way to a bumbling fool (Shepard went all ME1 on me during Horizon). His, "How've you been Ash? It's been a while." was a terrible way to start a conversation off with a lover who mourned your death for 2 years. And his "explanations" are ****. "I was in some kind of coma thing" no Shepard, I think it's safe to say, "I died... I was brought back by Cerberus and heard that human colonies are being abducted and that you had moved on and were doing important, classified work of your own. I tried to contact you but you're classified." Unfortunately, we got the dialogue choices on Horizon which sucked ass. Hope they fired whoever wrote them.


@Dellus
Stop using huge exaggerations as bad evidence. "I could beat the **** out of my wife for cheating on me!!! That would be realistic but not right." Whoa, you think that is a realistic response... you my friend watch way too much TV. Shepard acted like an idiot and got the reaction he/she deserved.

Ok wow, where do I start with this one?! If you love someone and they tell you(if actually given the chance) that they are working with(not for) a bad group for the survival of mankind and you still completely trash them, that is not love nor is it good. Also, you are wrong.

shepard had plent of chances to explain him self properly...the fact of the matter is that he didnt,"im doing this for the right reasons ash" is not a compelling argument as to why he is working for or with cerberus (who are branded terroists by the govements she serves).

if ppl who want an apology from ash or kai say her/his reaction was to far,or out of line they should also try and realize that shepard is as much to blame with his horrid responses as they are.

[The dead fish]

After two years.
Shepard : "  Yo Ash/ kaidan , what's up ? It's been a long time !!!!  ":innocent:

-----____________----

[Iakus]

jeweledleah wrote...

responces were written terribly.  even if you pick, I don't work for Cerberus - shepard just goes - oh I'm just temporarily allied with them, or something like that.  yeah, way to go Shepard.  you never tell them that Joker and Chakwas are on the Normandy, no matter whcih conversation option you chose to talk to VS - it just sounds horrible.

I have basicaly found a combination of neutral paragon and renegade responses, that sounds less horrible, but its still pretty derpy.  and yes, VS should have listened a little longer.  Writers didn't want them to for whatever reason (probably why they made Shepard sound like that much of an idiot).  they also merged their personalities, made NO aknowledgement for conversation paths you had with tehm, barely aknowledged romantic relationships.  at least they gave Kaidan his own armor for that scene unlike the destruction of Normandy intro.  never mind that its exactly the same as that of half the random mooks on Illium spaceport, at least its not phoenix armor anymore.

I don't think Horizon should be brushed off.  what's done is done.  but at least i hope that they will give players a wide variety of options of how they can handle it and don't make the apologizing a default and only options.  because several of my Shepards feel like THEY are the ones that should be apologizing.

This.

I think Horizon has to be revisited, and Shep and the VS really need to deal with what happened for the sake of advancing the story and their relationship (whatever it may be).

But I don't believe that either really owes the other an apology.  Certainly not a groveling session.

Now the writers of that scene are a different matter...

[ashlover mark 2]

Sylvianus wrote...

After two years.
Shepard : "  Yo Ash/ kaidan , what's up ? It's been a long time !!!!  ":innocent:

-----____________----

"You show up after two years and act like NOTHINGS wrong!? we had something shepard something real...I...i loved you  why didnt you try to contact me andlet me know you were alive".

"not my choice i spent the last two years in some kindve  coma while CERBERUS rebuilt me"

Modifié par ashlover mark 2, 17 juin 2011 - 07:12 .

[Siansonea]

If anyone needs to apologize, it's Shepard. Ash/Kaidan showed admirable restraint and a level-headed attitude, unlike Cerberus lapdog Shepard.

[NICKjnp]

If we are stuck as N7 operatives instead of being a spectre again then no....I expect them to say: I'm a council spectre and I don't answer to you.

[Sister Helen]

Both VSs were completely honest to my Sheps on Horizon. No apology was necessary. And because it was a nasty breakup, the Sheps felt no guilt in pursuing new LIs, who are a better fit, personalitywise.

Yeah, the conversation pissed me off, but the written followup notes, particularly Kaidan's, pissed me off more.

[The dead fish]

Siansonea II wrote...

If anyone needs to apologize, it's Shepard. Ash/Kaidan showed admirable restraint and a level-headed attitude, unlike Cerberus lapdog Shepard.

I agree. He's alive, and don't care  to warn his friends, lover. Not even an email....

[The dead fish]

Sister Helen wrote...
Yeah, the conversation pissed me off, but the written followup notes, particularly Kaidan's, pissed me off more.

Why ?

[Iakus]

Sylvianus wrote...

After two years.
Shepard : "  Yo Ash/ kaidan , what's up ? It's been a long time !!!!  ":innocent:

-----____________----

Ash:  What happened, Shepard?  We all thought you were dead!

Shepard:  Ash!  Thank goodness you're all right!  Listen, the Collectors are behind the abductions, they're working with the Reapers!  We have to warn the Alliance!  Find Tali, she can confi...

Bioware:  Assuming direct control

Shepard:  Hey Ash, long time no see.  Wanna join Cerberus?  It'll be just like old times.

Ash:  What?  You traitor!  I can't believe I helped you steal an Alliance warship from the Citadel!

[ashlover mark 2]

Ash: "what if THERYE behind it what if THEREYE the ones working for the collecter/reapers!"

Epic ME3 forshadowing.

[The dead fish]

iakus wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

After two years.
Shepard : "  Yo Ash/ kaidan , what's up ? It's been a long time !!!!  ":innocent:

-----____________----

Ash:  What happened, Shepard?  We all thought you were dead!

Shepard:  Ash!  Thank goodness you're all right!  Listen, the Collectors are behind the abductions, they're working with the Reapers!  We have to warn the Alliance!  Find Tali, she can confi...

Bioware:  Assuming direct control

Shepard:  Hey Ash, long time no see.  Wanna join Cerberus?  It'll be just like old times.

Ash:  What?  You traitor!  I can't believe I helped you steal an Alliance warship from the Citadel!

XDDDDDD



<3
 

[Iakus]

ashlover mark 2 wrote...

Ash: "what if THERYE behind it what if THEREYE the ones working for the collecter/reapers!"

Epic ME3 forshadowing.

I admit Ash suggesting that Shepard was being used by Cerbeurs was the one moment in that scene that really had me wondering.  The rest was 

[jbblue05]

Its nno big deal to me.
Make-up sex solves everything

[ashlover mark 2]

iakus wrote...

ashlover mark 2 wrote...

Ash: "what if THERYE behind it what if THEREYE the ones working for the collecter/reapers!"

Epic ME3 forshadowing.

I admit Ash suggesting that Shepard was being used by Cerbeurs was the one moment in that scene that really had me wondering.  The rest was 

why couldnt shep say to ash what he said to garrus and tali.

Ash"id like to belive you shepard but i dont trust cerberus and it worries me you do".

Shepard:"I know ash i dont trust them either thats why i need someone i trust to watch out for me,ive already got garrus,tali,joker and chakwas come with me and we'll watch out for each other,i can get have you officaly reassigned  to serve under me again;i got my spectre status reinstated youll be working for  me and for the council to help stop the collecters/reapers not working for cerberus".

no instead shepard says "youre to emotinal ash,your letteing there history blind you".

W.T.F!!

Modifié par ashlover mark 2, 17 juin 2011 - 08:14 .

[jamesp81]

leggywillow wrote...

Badpie wrote...

Some mature discussion about Horizon is needed. I don't think it's so much an "apology" from either side but just being able to move passed it.

I really hope they don't make Ash or Kaidan grovel an apology to Shepard just so some gamers can get an ego boost and keep thinking their Shepard is the greatest thing ever who does no wrong.

One of the whole reasons I ever like Ash or Kaidan is that if they had a different opinion, they shared it. They weren't doormatty little yes men, which unfortunately I think some people would prefer from their squadmates.

This.

It seems like I'm alone in thinking that Ash/Kaidan reacted very understandably on Horizon.  Even under normal, calm circumstances, Shepard is into some crazy stuff these days that merits suspicion.  Should they have given Shepard a chance to explain?  Yeah, probably, but who can honestly blame them for not being 100% reasonable after watching half a colony be suddenly (and a bit violently) abducted?  And the other half saved by a friend/lover who had been dead for 2 years?

Personally, Kaidan and Ashley were far more reasonable than I would have been under the circumstances.

I hope they address Horizon in ME3, and I hope it's more than just a "Look... about Horizon... I'm sorry".  Kaidan and Ashley have legitimate reasons to feel betrayed and confused, and I'd like Shepard to finally get the chance to explain and see them work it out.

I absolutely agree with you.  The VS reaction on Horizon was normal.  Hell, I don't think I'd have handled it as well as the VS did.  Having a close friend or lover show up after supposedly being dead for two years working for terrorists?  I'd be livid.

If my dad disappeared for two years and was declared dead, then I ran into him one day and he was working with Al Qaeda, I'd lose my cool immediately.

[ADLegend21]

ashlover mark 2 wrote...

iakus wrote...

ashlover mark 2 wrote...

Ash: "what if THERYE behind it what if THEREYE the ones working for the collecter/reapers!"

Epic ME3 forshadowing.

I admit Ash suggesting that Shepard was being used by Cerbeurs was the one moment in that scene that really had me wondering.  The rest was 

why could shep say to ash what he said to garrus and tali.

Ash"id like to belive you shepard but i dont trust cerberus and it worries me you do".

Shepard:"I know ash i dont trust them either thats why i need someone i trust to watch out for me,ive already got garrus,tali,joker and chakwas".

no instead shepard says "youre to emotinal ash,your letteing there history blind you".

W.T.F!!

Garrus says that too, "You're letting your emotions blind your judgement Williams" I think. and it's sort of true.

[JPfanner]

They seemed to handle a lot of the complaints with the garbage default scene with Shepard and Liara in ME2 with the Shadow Broker DLC. And most of the problems with that consisted of Shepard sitting there like a moron never bringing up anything or expressing themselves in anything but tardspeak. Which is the same problem on Horizon and really with a lot of the other interactions, like all of them between Shepard and TIM. Shepard isn't a participant in those conversations, you're just an observer.

Looking forward, I really do hope that they learned a lesson and that kind of wishy-washy pathetic spineless Shepard who just stands there after making maybe one token effort at normal behavior that makes no difference and then just accepts being railroaded is gone in ME3.