388 réponses à ce sujet

[Nixter Shepard]

jamesp81 wrote...

Actually, I'm hoping my Shepard will have conversation choices to explain his actions that are more sophisticated than what I had on Horizon, which where

Herp (Paragon)
Derp (Renegade)
Durr Hurr (Neutral)

This... I was more annoyed by Shepard's behaviorthan Kaishely's.

[Eternal Dust]

Apologize for what?

[AquamanOS]

I found it's possible to get through that conversation with minimal stupidity if you go for the neutral options and let them go on their way without any fanfare. Shepard sort of explains, Ash/Kaiden say it's hard to believe, and they'll have to report this to the council. Shepard sadly bids them farewell, they tell Shepard to stay alive. Conversation over with civility from both sides.

It's only if you try to recruit them (which most people probably tried) that it falls apart, mostly because Bioware won't let Shepard say anything that works, because they don't want you to have the VS in ME2.

[redbaron76]

I personaly do not need an apology, from Ash. I am just glad to have her by my side while exterminating reapers. As to all people complaining about apology get over it. Shepard was in the wrong. He did not contact Ash, he started woking with Cerberus, a known terrorist organization. We all know that Cerberus now works for the enemy, so Like in ME 1 we get to kill cerberus again.So they brought back my shepard back to life to save colonists but in the end they turn traitors.

[Captain_Obvious]

My Shepards are still building consensus. So far, 13 favor an apology and 12 favor letting them off.

[Ghost-621]

jamesp81 wrote...

Actually, I'm hoping my Shepard will have conversation choices to explain his actions that are more sophisticated than what I had on Horizon, which where

Herp (Paragon)
Derp (Renegade)
Durr Hurr (Neutral)

[Ottemis]

After all they've been through in the first game, and after romancing Kai/Ash, I'd have expected them to trust in Shep's sense of wrong and right. And even though being with Cerberus is a dire thing indeed, if you tell them you've got a good reason to stick with them atm, then it's not at all about Cerberus, it's about your motivation for staying with them and trusting it to be enough of a reason to.

As such, I am disappoint. Being blinded by emotions is one thing, but they're basicly insulting Shep's character, that ain't ok in my book. Shep shouldn't have to explain, and having been able to properly explain on Horizon would actually have made this all worse in my mind.
Bit sad that you get 'more love' from the rest of your former squaddies... the fact that you do get that love should also have been a hint to Kai/Ash if you ask me.

Also, they didn't have to do it this way. Ash and Kai are both tied up in their own stuff, same with Liara (only she doesn't hate your ass for being with Cerb). Could have ended on a better note on Horizon without being able to recruit them.

Modifié par Ottemis, 17 juin 2011 - 10:07 .

[The dead fish]

Ottemis wrote...
As such, I am disappoint. Being blinded by emotions is one thing, but they're basicly insulting Shep's character, that ain't ok in my book. Shep shouldn't have to explain, and having been able to properly explain on Horizon would actually have made this all worse in my mind.
Bit sad that you get 'more love' from the rest of your former squaddies... the fact that you do get that love should also have been a hint to Kai/Ash if you ask me.

As I already said, I understand this view. What I don't understand, it's why don't you  take into account the letter in which they apologize for what they said and their behavior toward you on Horizon ?

Modifié par Sylvianus, 17 juin 2011 - 10:08 .

[ashlover mark 2]

Ottemis wrote...

After all they've been through in the first game, and after romancing Kai/Ash, I'd have expected them to trust in Shep's sense of wrong and right. And even though being with Cerberus is a dire thing indeed, if you tell them you've got a good reason to stick with them atm, then it's not at all about Cerberus, it's about your motivation for staying with them and trusting it to be enough of a reason to.

As such, I am disappoint. Being blinded by emotions is one thing, but they're basicly insulting Shep's character, that ain't ok in my book. Shep shouldn't have to explain, and having been able to properly explain on Horizon would actually have made this all worse in my mind.
Bit sad that you get 'more love' from the rest of your former squaddies... the fact that you do get that love should also have been a hint to Kai/Ash if you ask me.

garrus is concerned about cerberus,tali hates them,liara dosnt like cerberus and regrets giving your body to them,wrex dosnt really care about much outside of the krogan and is never asked,and ashley/ kaidan voice strong opposition to shepards alliance with cerberus.so i would say none of the former squadmates approve.but some of them have to agree to put it aside so we could have them return.ash and kai couldnt do it,dont see why ppl cant respect that.

Modifié par ashlover mark 2, 17 juin 2011 - 10:11 .

[Ottemis]

ashlover mark 2 wrote...

Ottemis wrote...

After all they've been through in the first game, and after romancing Kai/Ash, I'd have expected them to trust in Shep's sense of wrong and right. And even though being with Cerberus is a dire thing indeed, if you tell them you've got a good reason to stick with them atm, then it's not at all about Cerberus, it's about your motivation for staying with them and trusting it to be enough of a reason to.

As such, I am disappoint. Being blinded by emotions is one thing, but they're basicly insulting Shep's character, that ain't ok in my book. Shep shouldn't have to explain, and having been able to properly explain on Horizon would actually have made this all worse in my mind.
Bit sad that you get 'more love' from the rest of your former squaddies... the fact that you do get that love should also have been a hint to Kai/Ash if you ask me.

garrus is concerned about cerberus,tali hates them,liara dosnt like cerberus and regrets giving your body to them,wrex dosnt really care about much outside of the krogan and is never asked,and ashley/ kaidan voice strong opposition to shepards alliance with cerberus.so i would say none of the former squadmates approve.but some of them have to agree to put aside so we could have them return.ash and kai couldnt dont see why ppl cant respect that.

It's not about not respecting their opinion on Cerberus, hell my Shep hates Cerb's guts all the same. It's that their disapproval is an insult to your character, not just Cerberus. The rest hate Cerb aswell yes, but they TRUST Shep to know what he/she's doing. They come along despite of Cerb, because of Shep.

Sylvianus wrote...

Ottemis wrote...
As such, I am disappoint. Being blinded by emotions is one thing, but they're basicly insulting Shep's character, that ain't ok in my book. Shep shouldn't have to explain, and having been able to properly explain on Horizon would actually have made this all worse in my mind. 
Bit sad that you get 'more love' from the rest of your former squaddies... the fact that you do get that love should also have been a hint to Kai/Ash if you ask me.

As I already said, I understand this view. What I don't understand, it's why don't you  take into account the letter in which they apologize for what they said and their behavior toward you on Horizon ? 

I honestly still don't know what I think about that letter. In a way what Ash/Kai did on Horizon proves there's something wrong to me, so my Shep won't be able to just 'pick up where they left off' even though there was a letter.
It's not enough.

Modifié par Ottemis, 17 juin 2011 - 10:18 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Ottemis wrote...

ashlover mark 2 wrote...

Ottemis wrote...

After all they've been through in the first game, and after romancing Kai/Ash, I'd have expected them to trust in Shep's sense of wrong and right. And even though being with Cerberus is a dire thing indeed, if you tell them you've got a good reason to stick with them atm, then it's not at all about Cerberus, it's about your motivation for staying with them and trusting it to be enough of a reason to.

As such, I am disappoint. Being blinded by emotions is one thing, but they're basicly insulting Shep's character, that ain't ok in my book. Shep shouldn't have to explain, and having been able to properly explain on Horizon would actually have made this all worse in my mind.
Bit sad that you get 'more love' from the rest of your former squaddies... the fact that you do get that love should also have been a hint to Kai/Ash if you ask me.

garrus is concerned about cerberus,tali hates them,liara dosnt like cerberus and regrets giving your body to them,wrex dosnt really care about much outside of the krogan and is never asked,and ashley/ kaidan voice strong opposition to shepards alliance with cerberus.so i would say none of the former squadmates approve.but some of them have to agree to put aside so we could have them return.ash and kai couldnt dont see why ppl cant respect that.

It's not about not respecting their opinion on Cerberus, hell my Shep hates Cerb's guts all the same. It's that their disapproval is an insult to your character, not just Cerberus. The rest hate Cerb aswell yes, but they TRUST Shep to know what he/she's doing. They come along despite of Cerb, because of Shep.

I'm sorry but not everyone has to trust space jesus.

[jeweledleah]

I have this feeling that those "rumors" that Kaidan/Ash were hearing and you confirm with your second sentence, regardless of which option you chose? were at least somewhat unsavory. probably more then a little. Rumors specifically aimed at Shepards former crewmates that were still with alliance. you know, to cut ties.

the way TIM asks shepards about letting go of the past?  my warning bells were rigning overtime

Modifié par jeweledleah, 17 juin 2011 - 10:18 .

[ashlover mark 2]

Ottemis wrote...

ashlover mark 2 wrote...

Ottemis wrote...

After all they've been through in the first game, and after romancing Kai/Ash, I'd have expected them to trust in Shep's sense of wrong and right. And even though being with Cerberus is a dire thing indeed, if you tell them you've got a good reason to stick with them atm, then it's not at all about Cerberus, it's about your motivation for staying with them and trusting it to be enough of a reason to.

As such, I am disappoint. Being blinded by emotions is one thing, but they're basicly insulting Shep's character, that ain't ok in my book. Shep shouldn't have to explain, and having been able to properly explain on Horizon would actually have made this all worse in my mind.
Bit sad that you get 'more love' from the rest of your former squaddies... the fact that you do get that love should also have been a hint to Kai/Ash if you ask me.

garrus is concerned about cerberus,tali hates them,liara dosnt like cerberus and regrets giving your body to them,wrex dosnt really care about much outside of the krogan and is never asked,and ashley/ kaidan voice strong opposition to shepards alliance with cerberus.so i would say none of the former squadmates approve.but some of them have to agree to put aside so we could have them return.ash and kai couldnt dont see why ppl cant respect that.

It's not about not respecting their opinion on Cerberus, hell my Shep hates Cerb's guts all the same. It's that their disapproval is an insult to your character, not just Cerberus. The rest hate Cerb aswell yes, but they TRUST Shep to know what he/she's doing. They come along because of Shep, not because of  and despite of Cerb.

i undertand not like being insulted....was ashley right to call shepard a traitor,no that was wrong and hurtful.but she apologized for that (if you romanced her) thats the problem i have with this "Oh ash and kai need to explain thmeselves and give a proper apology"stuff.

blame bioware not ash and kai for not haveing a follow up scene were things could get aired out.

Modifié par ashlover mark 2, 17 juin 2011 - 10:19 .

[ashlover mark 2]

jeweledleah wrote...

I have this feeling that those "rumors" that Kaidan/Ash were hearing and you confirm with your second sentence, regardless of which option you chose? were at least somewhat unsavory. probably more then a little. Rumors specifically aimed at Shepards former crewmates that were still with alliance. you know, to cut ties.

the way TIM asks shepards about letting go of the past?  my warning bells were rigning overtime

the council had the same reaction when you go meet them.

"weve heard some DISTURBING rumors surrounding your....recent return"

obvious TIM let it slip so shepard would feel alianated by his fomer freinds and comrades to push him further into cerberus's corner.

[Ottemis]

ashlover mark 2 wrote...
blame bioware not ash and kai for not haveing a follow up scene were things could get aired out.

I would if I was sure it was bad writing.
Maybe this is just who they are. Then it comes down to how you view their actions, and how you recieved their letter of apology. It's either enough or it isn't. For me, it isn't. 
As some have said, I need this to have a tail in ME3. No automatic nothing, serious convo and confrontation time.

Modifié par Ottemis, 17 juin 2011 - 10:23 .

[sushismygen]

Lack of proper apology was what got me pissed in the first place.I can understand that they were  bitter and confused on Horizon. The conversation options were very bad it's true but taken the circumstances, chances of this reunion going smooth were thin anyway. The letter is another matter. It's after they had some time to think and it's so bad. Though from my point of view there's a big difference between Ash and Kaidan. While Ash tries to grasp the situation from both sides, Kaidan is just being an ass. I liked Ash's apology better and found it satisfactory to the point where I wouldn't need to hear more about it in ME3. The same can't be said about Kaiden...

"So... I got this chick on the Citadel I'll be going out with while you're on the mission with microscopic chance of succsess... so yeah, let me know if you survive...then maybe we can hang out again..." 

And it's not about a girl. God bless her heart, poor Kaidan thought you were dead, he deserevd to move on with someone new. It's the "you can't count on me" part that gets me. For me relationship is all about trust and being there for each other no matter what. I was stuned by Garrus's loyalty who at this point wasn't even romanticly involved with Shep. His "I'll walk with you to hell and back" was what I expected from my LI and well, that didn't happened so yeah I expect something more in ME3 at least from Kaidan. 

[harbl123]

I personaly do not need an apology, from Ash. I am just glad to have her by my side while exterminating reapers. As to all people complaining about apology get over it. Shepard was in the wrong. He did not contact Ash, he started woking with Cerberus, a known terrorist organization. We all know that Cerberus now works for the enemy, so Like in ME 1 we get to kill cerberus again.So they brought back my shepard back to life to save colonists but in the end they turn traitors.

I see your point man, but c'mon, Cerberus brought Shepard back from the dead...I'd help anyone if they returned me from beyond the grave. Also, in between being dead and shooting things for Cerberus he doesn't have a lot of time for contacting Ash/Kaiden. Regardless, Shepard acted like a knob, and so did Ash/Kaiden

[Ottemis]

sushismygen wrote...

Lack of proper apology was what got me pissed in the first place.I can understand that they were  bitter and confused on Horizon. The conversation options were very bad it's true but taken the circumstances, chances of this reunion going smooth were thin anyway. The letter is another matter. It's after they had some time to think and it's so bad. Though from my point of view there's a big difference between Ash and Kaidan. While Ash tries to grasp the situation from both sides, Kaidan is just being an ass. I liked Ash's apology better and found it satisfactory to the point where I wouldn't need to hear more about it in ME3. The same can't be said about Kaiden...

"So... I got this chick on the Citadel I'll be going out with while you're on the mission with microscopic chance of succsess... so yeah, let me know if you survive...then maybe we can hang out again..." 

And it's not about a girl. God bless her heart, poor Kaidan thought you were dead, he deserevd to move on with someone new. It's the "you can't count on me" part that gets me. For me relationship is all about trust and being there for each other no matter what. I was stuned by Garrus's loyalty who at this point wasn't even romanticly involved with Shep. His "I'll walk with you to hell and back" was what I expected from my LI and well, that didn't happened so yeah I expect something more in ME3 at least from Kaidan. 

Yep, exactly that, down to the last letter.

[Dazaster Dellus]

ashlover mark 2 wrote...

not to mention you were "Dead" up until a few days ago can we cut the girl some slack,loved ones and friends rising from the dead isnt something you experinace everyday.

All the more reason not to cast someone back out by calling them traitor and tossing other insults around don't you think?!

the reason she steps back from you is that she thinks cerberus has done something to you.after all you were under their knife for awhile how dose she know that cerberus didnt put that control chip in your brain that mirianda herself was so eager to put in there.

agree with you however on the fact that horizon was excuted poorly.

Ok, now you are just adding your own storyline to what happened. Regardless as to if she did actually think Shep had a chip in him or not she didn't seem that concerned for his safety. She didn't say "Shepard, I swear I'll find out what these bastards did to you and help you!". No. She completely bashed him. I mean, personally, I would think that if most people knew or thought their friend or loved one was under control of some evil regime they would help them and be somewhat sympathetic. So your last argument is pretty invalid.

Also how would she even know you were "under their knife"? How would she know anything. And this is the problem. Everyone is stating what THEY think is Ashley/Kaidan's reasons for saying what they said when in truth it is nothing more then conflicting speculations. I am going off of the storyline not what people think her motivations were. She knew she was completely in the wrong which is why she sent the email apology(which is pretty lame itself). Your team knew she was wrong and harsh as well. Nothing else to be said. These are storyline based facts.

Modifié par Dazaster Dellus, 17 juin 2011 - 10:30 .

[The dead fish]

Ottemis wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Ottemis wrote...
As such, I am disappoint. Being blinded by emotions is one thing, but they're basicly insulting Shep's character, that ain't ok in my book. Shep shouldn't have to explain, and having been able to properly explain on Horizon would actually have made this all worse in my mind. 
Bit sad that you get 'more love' from the rest of your former squaddies... the fact that you do get that love should also have been a hint to Kai/Ash if you ask me.

As I already said, I understand this view. What I don't understand, it's why don't you  take into account the letter in which they apologize for what they said and their behavior toward you on Horizon ? 

IIn a way what Ash/Kai did on Horizon proves there's something wrong to me, so my Shep won't be able to just 'pick up where they left off' even though there was a letter.
It's not enough.

But apologize for its behavior doesn't mean you got wrong.

 Shepard joined Cerberus before consulting with the Alliance and the Council to which he pledged loyalty. Shepard didn't contact her lover to warn that he was alive. Unforgivable for me in a true relation.

He believed a terrorist at his word without first trying to try with the authorities. It makes no sense first and it's treason.

Shepard sees his/her love and ​​behave as if they had left only for several hours.

Don't you believe he is responsible for all of this ? He has something to be ashamed and that their anger is justified ?

I'm just curious.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 17 juin 2011 - 10:37 .

[The dead fish]

sushismygen wrote...

Lack of proper apology was what got me pissed in the first place.I can understand that they were  bitter and confused on Horizon. The conversation options were very bad it's true but taken the circumstances, chances of this reunion going smooth were thin anyway. The letter is another matter. It's after they had some time to think and it's so bad. Though from my point of view there's a big difference between Ash and Kaidan. While Ash tries to grasp the situation from both sides, Kaidan is just being an ass. I liked Ash's apology better and found it satisfactory to the point where I wouldn't need to hear more about it in ME3. The same can't be said about Kaiden...

"So... I got this chick on the Citadel I'll be going out with while you're on the mission with microscopic chance of succsess... so yeah, let me know if you survive...then maybe we can hang out again..." 

And it's not about a girl. God bless her heart, poor Kaidan thought you were dead, he deserevd to move on with someone new. It's the "you can't count on me" part that gets me. For me relationship is all about trust and being there for each other no matter what. I was stuned by Garrus's loyalty who at this point wasn't even romanticly involved with Shep. His "I'll walk with you to hell and back" was what I expected from my LI and well, that didn't happened so yeah I expect something more in ME3 at least from Kaidan. 

Well, I agree a bit for kaidan's letter. It lack of something. You have well described I think.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 17 juin 2011 - 10:33 .

[ashlover mark 2]

Dazaster Dellus wrote...

ashlover mark 2 wrote...

not to mention you were "Dead" up until a few days ago can we cut the girl some slack,loved ones and friends rising from the dead isnt something you experinace everyday.

All the more reason not to cast someone back out by calling them traitor and tossing other insults around don't you think?!

the reason she steps back from you is that she thinks cerberus has done something to you.after all you were under their knife for awhile how dose she know that cerberus didnt put that control chip in your brain that mirianda herself was so eager to put in there.

agree with you however on the fact that horizon was excuted poorly.

Ok, now you are just adding your own storyline to what happened. Regardless as to if she did actually think Shep had a chip in him or not she didn't seem that concerned for his safety. She didn't say "Shepard, I swear I'll find out what these bastards did to you and help you!". No. She completely bashed him. I mean, personally, I would think that if most people knew or thought their friend or loved one was under control of some evil regime they would help them and be somewhat sympathetic. So your last argument is pretty invalid.

Also how would she even know you were "under their knife"? How would she know anything. And this is the problem. Everyone is stating what THEY think is Ashley/Kaidan's reasons for saying what they said when in truth it is nothing more then conflicting speculation. I am going off of the storyiline not what people think her motivations were. She knew she was completely in the wrong which is why she sent the email apology(which is pretty lame itself). Your team knew she was wrong and harsh as well. Nothing else to be said. These are storyline based facts.

i say that beacuse ash says 'What did they do to you?" implying she belives cerberus may have altered shep to suit their needs and control him better.

and like it or not joining cerberus is a traitorus act, shepard signed up to be an alliance marine and accepted to be a council spectre meaning he swore an oath to follow the commands of his surpriors wheither they be good orders or no joining cerberus beacuse your surperiors dont belive giant ancient robots are comeing to annhilate us all planet by planet is in the eyes of fellow alliance comrades and the powers that be  treason.

did ash jump the gun a little and say some hurtful things,yea....did she apologize afterward yes to that to if you didnt like it thats your thing.
bioware is the one who decided to make a crap fest out of horizon.

Modifié par ashlover mark 2, 17 juin 2011 - 10:45 .

[Sherbet Lemon]

 They don't need to apologize.  I can understand their point-of-view.

I think mostly I would just like Shepard to be able to respond to some of those accusation intelligently.  I didn't like the way that scene went down at all.  If you're in a romance you at least get the email (though I know how hollow that felt), but if you're not in a romance...yeah, nothing. 

[Sister Helen]

sushismygen wrote...

Lack of proper apology was what got me pissed in the first place.I can understand that they were  bitter and confused on Horizon. The conversation options were very bad it's true but taken the circumstances, chances of this reunion going smooth were thin anyway. The letter is another matter. It's after they had some time to think and it's so bad. Though from my point of view there's a big difference between Ash and Kaidan. While Ash tries to grasp the situation from both sides, Kaidan is just being an ass. I liked Ash's apology better and found it satisfactory to the point where I wouldn't need to hear more about it in ME3. The same can't be said about Kaiden...

"So... I got this chick on the Citadel I'll be going out with while you're on the mission with microscopic chance of succsess... so yeah, let me know if you survive...then maybe we can hang out again..." 

And it's not about a girl. God bless her heart, poor Kaidan thought you were dead, he deserevd to move on with someone new. It's the "you can't count on me" part that gets me. For me relationship is all about trust and being there for each other no matter what. I was stuned by Garrus's loyalty who at this point wasn't even romanticly involved with Shep. His "I'll walk with you to hell and back" was what I expected from my LI and well, that didn't happened so yeah I expect something more in ME3 at least from Kaidan. 

You said everything I wanted to say.  And much better than I would have said it! 

Except - I think Garrus had a good idea that he (himself) might not survive the Omega mission, though he had no doubts that Shep would.  ("They killed you once, it just pissed you off.")

Modifié par Sister Helen, 17 juin 2011 - 10:43 .

[jeweledleah]

Kaidan always did try to leave a way out. to my mind, that letter was more like Kaidan then most of his behavior on Horizon. when you have someone who internalizes his emotions, has difficulties letting go and not hold back - you have that someone who finally let go and didn't hold back - lose the person he did it with, a person who then comes back, working with/for the enemy, person who didn't even try to contact their lover... yeah. I didn't expect that leap of faith from him.

the biggest out of character thing for Kaidan was him making that judgment so swiftly on Horizon, instead of saying - Shepard, I knew you, but you are not giving me much to go on, your explanations are not exactly forthcoming. but... they couldn't make him have more lines then Ashley.. heck they didn't even give him unique armor or animations. more then half his dialogue is identical to Ashley.  so they slaughtered his character instead.

e-mails don't cost as much as fully voiced scenes.

P.S.  Garrus has nowhere else to go.  he's just as loyal to Shepard who never recruited him in a first place, which is to me just as jarring as Horizon dialogue choices.  at least if you didn't recruit Garrus - you are locked out of a romance.  small favors.  VS just gets a clipping hug and a slightly different responce to initial conversation intro.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 17 juin 2011 - 10:49 .