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[Brockololly]

Interview with Ray Muzyka on Eurogamer regarding DA2 and upcoming DLC. Mostly the same sort of PR talking points Frank Gibeau mentioned alreay last week, but here it is.

Some quotes:

"We have some new DLC that's upcoming that's going to try and address  some of the comments and try and provide the fans with the things  they're looking for, both the core fans and the new fans."

"We're committing to making sure all the products in the franchise going forward are going to appeal to a wide audience, both the core and  more."

"It's been one of the most polarising launches we've had, frankly."

"It actually drew a lot of new players in who really love it," Muzyka continued. "Many people who played Dragon Age: Origins loved it as well.

"But also there were a lot of fans of the original Dragon Age: Origins  who weren't as happy with it. Maybe they were looking for more of the  same, and it was different and innovative in ways they weren't  expecting.

"Commercially, it's been very successful. Critically it's been successful with a lot of new fans, and many of the old fans.

"We take the feedback of all of our fans, our core fans particularly,  really seriously. We're committed to trying to address that feedback.

"We think it was innovative. We're proud of the risks the team took. We  think it's the right direction for the franchise. We also think there's  an opportunity to listen to the core fans who loved Dragon Age: Origins  to make sure they're with us on the journey going forward.

"We need to work hard to make sure that happens, that that is the case."

So it seems BioWare is intent on painting DA2 as "innovative" and those who didn't like it as some sort of outlier that simply couldn't handle the change and "innovation." What bugs me is how they act like the people that didn't like it are all lumped into one group that simply wanted more Origins. Well, maybe DA2 just wasn't a very well put together game?

Is it not possible that some of the "new fans" they keep coming back to thought the game was a rushed mess too, not just the fans of Origins? Not to mention how are they able to quantify these "new fans"?  Just seems they're almost marginalizing the people that didn't like DA2 as simply being backwards thinking RPG grognards while constantly trying to say how DA2 brought in some new fanbase.

I know they're not going to bash their own game but how DA2 keeps getting propped up with bloated PR speak calling it "innovative" without going into details how they think it was innovative is baffling. Maybe on the concept side, but not so much on the execution side.

Modifié par Brockololly, 17 juin 2011 - 04:04 .

[upsettingshorts]

Because clearly, the re-used maps are precisely what he was referring to.

[Brockololly]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Because clearly, the re-used maps are precisely what he was referring to.

Thats the issue with these interviews- they never say what they thought was innovative. I suppose Frank Gibeau mentioned the combat and narrative, but really? Again, in concept maybe it looked innovative but as executed it wasn't much to write home about, IMO.

Most of the "innovative" features of DA2 have been done before in other games and done better in other games.

Modifié par Brockololly, 17 juin 2011 - 04:06 .

[ddv.rsa]

Imo re-used maps are the least of DA2s problems. Just a minor irritation arising from limited resources and a short development cycle. A more serious problem is the huge of loss of player agency. But to their credit some things were innovative, like the friendship/rivalry system. You didn't have to worry about keeping everyone happy and relationships felt more natural.

[Seagloom]

Brockololly wrote...

So it seems BioWare is intent on painting DA2 as "innovative" and those who didn't like it as some sort of outlier that simply couldn't handle the change and "innovation." What bugs me is how they act like the people that didn't like it are all lumped into one group that simply wanted more Origins. Well, maybe DA2 just wasn't a very well put together game? Is it not possible that some of the "new fans" they keep coming back to thought the game was a rushed mess too, not just the fans of Origins?

Money talks, Brock. Notice that Ray Muzyka says DA2 was very successful commercially. Unless disappointed DA2 fans avoid buying DA3 in droves, there is little reason for them to sweat what may appear as a minority. Based on his following comment about critical success, it appears he feels a majority of fans were pleased too. Review scores are apparently not a part of it. The rest you cannot realistically expect him to admit even if he agrees they are faults. No BioWare high-up is going to own up to anything like that until the DA3 marketing machine rolls in.

[phoenixgoddess27]

I'm going to destroy every dictionary with the word "innovative" and brain bleach it from the minds of everyone.

"We take the feedback of all of our fans, our core fans particularly, really seriously. We're committed to trying to address that feedback."

Oh yes, I can tell.

"We think it was innovative. We're proud of the risks the team took. We 
think it's the right direction for the franchise. We also think
there's  an opportunity to listen to the core fans who loved Dragon Age:
Origins  to make sure they're with us on the journey going forward."

That... doesn't quite prove they're listening. The DA2 flaws are too obvious to ignore, but they seem "proud" of the risks. I'm not saying DAO didn't have its fair share of flaws, but DA2 has to top the cake here. They're pulling a Merrill when they ignore us telling them there's a lot that needs to change(Especially the enemies raining down from the heavens). *plugs ears* "Lalalalala, can't hear you!"

DA2 has a buttload of flaws that I'm not quite sure they can fix to be honest. Not without releasing a whole new game.
I do wish them luck, though. They'll need it to get many of the fans back.

Good luck, Bioware!

Modifié par phoenixgoddess27, 17 juin 2011 - 04:26 .

[Nerdage]

I smile every time I see them describe things people don't like as "innovations," I know it's literally the correct word but still..

Anyway, we all knew it was polarizing; we knew, they knew, and we knew they knew, I guess they just really want to drive home the point that things will be better next time. Also, I'm expecting an awful lot from this DLC now, if they're describing it as trying to address feedback from DA2 it should be something pretty special, if it's just more of the same then it would really undermine the big "we're listening" image they're trying to give.

Edit: Started writing my post before I saw anyone else's, so I'll just put this here...

Innovations:

1. the introduction of something new
2. a new idea, method, or device.

The word implies nothing of the idea's worth, just that it was new (and in context he really just means new to Dragon Age, not the whole industry). And for the record I liked most of the changes in DA2, and pretty much all the things I didn't have been acknowledged as issues by at least one Bioware guy on the forums at some point.

Modifié par nerdage, 17 juin 2011 - 04:32 .

[Zanallen]

We have to wait until any story DLC is released or we have more information for DA3 to determine how well Bioware is listening and who they are listening to.

[Dormiglione]

 The upcoming DLC is not a "day one buy" for me. I lean back, wait for User reviews and Youtube user video of the gameplay. I will read even through every spoiler before i decide to buy the next DA2 DLC.

[alex90c]

Oh great.

"But also there were a lot of fans of the original Dragon Age: Origins who weren't as happy with it. Maybe they were looking for more of the same, and it was different and innovative in ways they weren't expecting.

"It's not our fault, it's your fault!"

Once again the blame is getting pinned on the critics rather than actually owning up to "innovative" crap like re-used maps, waves and the flurry of other retarded crap in DA2.

Modifié par alex90c, 17 juin 2011 - 04:24 .

[Callidus Thorn]

I just find it amusing that they think it's the right direction for the franchise, aiming at a larger audience, yet selling less copies than the previous game.

Maybe the ultimate goal is to make a game that tries to appeal to so many people that no-one really wants to buy it?

[Salaya]

"We think it was innovative. We're proud of the risks the team took. We  think it's the right direction for the franchise. We also think there's  an opportunity to listen to the core fans who loved Dragon Age: Origins  to make sure they're with us on the journey going forward.

"We need to work hard to make sure that happens, that that is the case."

T_T

Sad, very sad. I know they have to use that kind of speech... but it makes me very sad that they are so convinced to keep with the "innovative" changes, and say thats "moving forward". Im, for certain, not going forward with them if they keep this direction with Dragon age.

[errant_knight]

Depressing. Completely and utterly depressing.

[TheBlackBaron]

I know we're knee-deep in the "can't say anything bad about the game" phase with developer statements and marketing, but by my reckoning, selling less copies and getting lower scores from critics does not quantify this as a success.

I just really wish they'd stop chasing CoD sales numbers. Black Ops broke sales records just from pre-orders and the first day. You're not getting that audience, period, not with a game that takes 30+ hours and has no multiplayer. Follow the example of Blizzard, Valve, and Rockstar. Sure, their games may cost $50,000,000 to develop and take four years of work from over 100 people...but you know, they get tons of love from critics and tons of love from fans in the form of their wallets, and they aren't exactly hurting financially from taking oh-so-long to develop their games.

[MonkeyLungs]

Amazon.com xbox 360 RPG's:
DA:O Ultimate #6
DA2 #9

Edit: DA:O has been outselling DA2 for at least 3 + weeks. I wasn't watching it daily before that but I'd guess it's been over a month now.

Modifié par MonkeyLungs, 17 juin 2011 - 04:37 .

[Brockololly]

Seagloom wrote..
Money talks, Brock. Notice that Ray Muzyka says DA2 was very successful commercially. Unless disappointed DA2 fans avoid buying DA3 in droves, there is little reason for them to sweat what may appear as a minority. Based on his following comment about critical success, it appears he feels a majority of fans were pleased too. Review scores are apparently not a part of it. The rest you cannot realistically expect him to admit even if he agrees they are faults. No BioWare high-up is going to own up to anything like that until the DA3 marketing machine rolls in.

True enough I suppose.

Obviously, we'll likely never get a complete picture of DA2's commercial success and what EA would define that success as, but from the incomplete data available, it would seem DA2 sold well to start out and then tanked pretty hard and fast, compared to Origins. But then I'd imagine a good chunk of DA2's early success was in the preorders from people who enjoyed DAO. 

Will that core audience rush to preorder a possible DA3? I really question that. I'm just thinking of what EA CEO John Riccitiello said the other day with respect to Battlefield 3 vs. Modern Warfare 3:

"A lot of people bought Modern Warfare more for the coffee table and didn’t play it for 2 months. There’s sort of that mass audience...  they’re going to win there. The question is, 'So, if the gamer buys our  game and the mass audience buys their game, where do the two meet?' And  all I want to do, if you will, is to have them rot from the core," he  explained.

I think thats the problem with DA- its still RPG enough to not appeal to people who don't like RPG's and yet its streamlining and dumbing down enough traditional RPG features which Origins had to alienate the "core." It seems BioWare is content with letting the "core" audience rot away, so long as they can get their "new fans." Why not take aim with Dragon Age at "hardcore" RPG fans, like how BF3 is aiming at "hardcore" FPS fans? 

It seems like BioWare wants their games to tap into that mass audience a la Call of Duty, but there is no way in hell that will ever happen, so long as they maintain any semblance of a traditional RPG. But the more they try to cater to that crowd that doesn't care, the more they're alienating and killing the interest of their core audience, IMO.

Modifié par Brockololly, 17 juin 2011 - 04:38 .

[turian councilor Knockout]

DA series is now dead to me, thank you bioware.

[this isnt my name]

Callidus Thorn wrote...

I just find it amusing that they think it's the right direction for the franchise, aiming at a larger audience, yet selling less copies than the previous game.

Maybe the ultimate goal is to make a game that tries to appeal to so many people that no-one really wants to buy it?

That what fable tried to be, and look at it now.

Its not innovative, mirrors edge was innovative, this was just jade mpire, mass effect and dragon age mixed together.
Its nice to see devs are still in denial, just like peter molyneux and fable. I wonder if BW will be the new LH.

[AngryFrozenWater]

errant_knight wrote...

Depressing. Completely and utterly depressing.

Yeah. I have to agree. I really have to think about this. Currently I don't like this direction.

[TEWR]

Salaya wrote...

"We think it was innovative. We're proud of the risks the team took. We  think it's the right direction for the franchise. We also think there's  an opportunity to listen to the core fans who loved Dragon Age: Origins  to make sure they're with us on the journey going forward.

"We need to work hard to make sure that happens, that that is the case."

T_T

Sad, very sad. I know they have to use that kind of speech... but it makes me very sad that they are so convinced to keep with the "innovative" changes, and say thats "moving forward". Im, for certain, not going forward with them if they keep this direction with Dragon age.

The definition of innovative:

Introducing new ideas; original and creative in thinking


A flawed new idea is still a new idea. What I hope for is that they work on these new ideas to make them.... well, not flawed.


That said, if reusing maps is what was going through their head as innovative, they must've taken a bowling ball to the head.