1248 réponses à ce sujet

[Zanallen]

Bejos_ wrote...

That's exactly what I've been saying, Zanallen. Not the rest, 'course.
If you don't want to be misrepresented, don't be vague. And if you don't have anything to say about how exactly you're going to be improving from here on out, give it a rest.
Cliche time again: Actions speak louder than words.

The issue at hand being that Bioware devs are not able to candidly speak out. They are part of EA and are publicly traded. They answer to the shareholders. Any information that Bioware releases has to go through several funnels. People who hold position within the company can be reprimanded or fired for openly bashing their games.

On the other hand, the public won't accept no response from Bioware. They should stop, but that won't satisfy anyone either. The forums will just be filled with more whiny putzes who demand answers and use Bioware's silence as confirmation of their beliefs. There is no way to win.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zanallen wrote...
On the other hand, the public won't accept no response from Bioware. They should stop, but that won't satisfy anyone either. The forums will just be filled with more whiny putzes who demand answers and use Bioware's silence as confirmation of their beliefs. There is no way to win.

Thing is, I don't really think they care that much.

If EA's objective was to cut development costs, cash in quickly, and get a short term profit, then they probably got what they wanted.

[UnspokenSoul22]

What I really don't understand is that ever since DA2's release, so many people have been praising DA:O as a "flawless" game. How far from the truth they are! Combat, while more strategic in the first game was too slow and clunky--now, it's more smooth. Most of the characters from Origins were sub-par at best. I actually wanted to get to know the characters of DA2, to make them my friends, lovers, or rivals.

Really, DA2 is a solid game. If BW combines elements from the two games, not forgetting to sprinkle in a little more flare, then all will be fine.

Anyone know when the release date will be announced?

Modifié par UnspokenSoul22, 17 juin 2011 - 08:12 .

[Zanallen]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Thing is, I don't really think they care that much.

If EA's objective was to cut development costs, cash in quickly, and get a short term profit, then they probably got what they wanted.

Possibly. Going by what Gaider said a few weeks ago, it seems that DA2 cost 1/5th of what DA:O did. So if DA2 reaches even half of Origin's sales, it is financially a success.

[Elhanan]

Here is an interview a bit earlier from the same source:

http://www.eurogamer...ge-ii-interview

Modifié par Elhanan, 17 juin 2011 - 08:15 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

UnspokenSoul22 wrote...

What I really don't understand is that ever since DA2's release, so many people have been praising DA:O as an "flawless" game. How far from the truth they are! Combat, while more strategic in the first game was too slow and clunky--now, it's more smooth. Most of the characters from Origins were sub-par at best. I actually wanted to get to know the characters of DA2, to make them my friends, lovers, or rivals.

DA:O is far from being flawless. In fact, when I hold it under scrunity, I find many flaws that I wonder why I love it so much. But that's part of what makes it good for me. That it makes me love it despite it's many flaws. DA2 does the opposite, despite it improving some areas (though not going as far as it could have).

And I have pretty much the polar opposite opinion when it comes to characters. Other than Varric and Aveline, I really can't think of a DA2 character, companion or NPC, that I like that much. None of them are really that memorable to me. DA:O on the otherhand, I thought, had an excellent cast of both companions and NPCs.

But of course, a lot of that is subjective.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 17 juin 2011 - 08:18 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zanallen wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Thing is, I don't really think they care that much.

If EA's objective was to cut development costs, cash in quickly, and get a short term profit, then they probably got what they wanted.

Possibly. Going by what Gaider said a few weeks ago, it seems that DA2 cost 1/5th of what DA:O did. So if DA2 reaches even half of Origin's sales, it is financially a success.

*rubs temples*

I see. I didn't know it was this cheaper.

[FieryDove]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I dislike the word polarization because I don't understand it.

How can a wave of light be said to travel in a direction while being perpendicular to the direction? Wouldn't that produce a constant curving?

No it would not. Well unless it occurred in dark space but that's a different matter literally.

[Aaleel]

UnspokenSoul22 wrote...

What I really don't understand is that ever since DA2's release, so many people have been praising DA:O as a "flawless" game. How far from the truth they are! Combat, while more strategic in the first game was too slow and clunky--now, it's more smooth. Most of the characters from Origins were sub-par at best. I actually wanted to get to know the characters of DA2, to make them my friends, lovers, or rivals.

Really, DA2 is a solid game. If BW combines elements from the two games, not forgetting to sprinkle in a little more flare, then all will be fine.

Anyone know when the release date will be announced?

Well first I disagree on characters, the characters in DA2 aside from Varric & Aveline were forgettable.  I loved all the characters in DA:O.  As far as the combat only problem I had was the shuffle, they add a closing technique I would have been good to go with just that.

Origins was far from flawless, but the difference between the two games for me was that there was nothing in Origins that made the game not fun for me to play, whereas there were in DA2.  So much so that it's one of the only games I've ever played that I couldn't get through twice.

[Bejos_]

Zanallen wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

That's exactly what I've been saying, Zanallen. Not the rest, 'course.
If you don't want to be misrepresented, don't be vague. And if you don't have anything to say about how exactly you're going to be improving from here on out, give it a rest.
Cliche time again: Actions speak louder than words.

The issue at hand being that Bioware devs are not able to candidly speak out. They are part of EA and are publicly traded. They answer to the shareholders. Any information that Bioware releases has to go through several funnels. People who hold position within the company can be reprimanded or fired for openly bashing their games.

On the other hand, the public won't accept no response from Bioware. They should stop, but that won't satisfy anyone either. The forums will just be filled with more whiny putzes who demand answers and use Bioware's silence as confirmation of their beliefs. There is no way to win.

No, the developers can't be candid. Yes, they're required by EA and Bioware to praise DA2.
Instead of releasing another insulting interview every other week, just release just one press statement when the backlash all starts. "We are well aware that DA2 has been divisive. We are considering all input and will see where to go from here. With all customer feedback in mind, expect improvements in the form of patches [or, at the very least DLC], on date XX-XX-XX."
People want some kind of definite response about anything DA2 related, and nobody is giving them that. Not about when DLC will be out, not about when patches will be out, not about what changes they are definitely going to be making ...
It leaves the impression that they're just ducking for cover, at this point, responsibility to the customer be damned.

Modifié par Bejos_, 17 juin 2011 - 08:21 .

[Nerevar-as]

UnspokenSoul22 wrote...

What I really don't understand is that ever since DA2's release, so many people have been praising DA:O as a "flawless" game. How far from the truth they are! Combat, while more strategic in the first game was too slow and clunky--now, it's more smooth. Most of the characters from Origins were sub-par at best. I actually wanted to get to know the characters of DA2, to make them my friends, lovers, or rivals.

Really, DA2 is a solid game. If BW combines elements from the two games, not forgetting to sprinkle in a little more flare, then all will be fine.

Anyone know when the release date will be announced?

Let´s just say YMMV. I find combat traded old problems for new ones (they say NM is 2% of players, but that makes +20000 of us according to their sales number - enough to bother to balance the game), and with characters I think the other way around. DA:O felt my party (and a party, unlike the ME2 squad for example), Fenris, Isabella, Sebastian or Anders never felt to have the relationship with Hawke the game tried to convey. It´s weird to have someone talk to Hawke as a blood brother after a few neutral conversations.

[Tirfan]

UnspokenSoul22 wrote...

What I really don't understand is that ever since DA2's release, so many people have been praising DA:O as a "flawless" game. How far from the truth they are! Combat, while more strategic in the first game was too slow and clunky--now, it's more smooth. Most of the characters from Origins were sub-par at best. I actually wanted to get to know the characters of DA2, to make them my friends, lovers, or rivals.

Really, DA2 is a solid game. If BW combines elements from the two games, not forgetting to sprinkle in a little more flare, then all will be fine.

Anyone know when the release date will be announced?

One thing I possibly have to agree on with you - DA:O was not perfect, it had it's flaws, it had many of them. But I just can't see how the combat was slow and clunky - but perhaps that is the years of PnP games and throwing buckets full of dies talking.

Companions.. I kind of have to agree - most of the companions in Origins were not that great - but then, there was those few that were just amazing, so amazing in fact, that while the companions in DA2 imo were overral a bit better, the few great characters of DA:O make up for that difference. Had I actually been given chance to have actual and meaningful conversations with DA2 companions, it could have been difference, all the characters only talked about one thing - and frankly, I don't want to hear about Merrils obsession with her mirror or Fenris whining about the fact that he has had a sh't of a life for the millionth time.

[UnspokenSoul22]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And I have pretty much the polar opposite opinion when it comes to characters. Other than Varric and Aveline, I really can't think of a DA2 character, companion or NPC, that I like that much. None of them are really that memorable to me. DA:O on the otherhand, I thought, had an excellent cast of both companions and NPCs.

But of course, a lot of that has is subjective.

Really? I thought Fenris, Anders, Varric, Sandal and his father, Bartrand, and your family were very well executed. I hated Aveline and Meril (sp?) with all my might. Even the rest of the cast, like Meredith, were represented in a good way.

Origins was okay, it's just that when I finished it, I really didn't want to play it a second time. I'm not sure if it was the plot, the characters...I'm not sure what detered me. It was probably the combat system.

Yes, it seems most of this topic is based on opinions, but I suppose we can't help that.

-edit- All of DA2's characters had their flaws. That's what made me love them more. Someone said they loved DA:O for its subtle mistakes...this perfectly describes how I felt about Fenris and Anders and so forth.

Modifié par UnspokenSoul22, 17 juin 2011 - 08:24 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Aaleel wrote...
Origins was far from flawless, but the difference between the two games for me was that there was nothing in Origins that made the game not fun for me to play, whereas there were in DA2.  So much so that it's one of the only games I've ever played that I couldn't get through twice.

Same. I am not sure I can even start a second playthrough, let alone finish it.

I am 99% sure I will replay Origins again before playing DA2.

[Nerevar-as]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

UnspokenSoul22 wrote...

What I really don't understand is that ever since DA2's release, so many people have been praising DA:O as an "flawless" game. How far from the truth they are! Combat, while more strategic in the first game was too slow and clunky--now, it's more smooth. Most of the characters from Origins were sub-par at best. I actually wanted to get to know the characters of DA2, to make them my friends, lovers, or rivals.

DA:O is far from being flawless. In fact, when I hold it under scrunity, I find many flaws that I wonder why I love it so much. But that's part of what makes it good for me. That it makes me love it despite it's many flaws. DA2 does the opposite, despite it improving some areas (though not going as far as it could have).

And I have pretty much the polar opposite opinion when it comes to characters. Other than Varric and Aveline, I really can't think of a DA2 character, companion or NPC, that I like that much. None of them are really that memorable to me. DA:O on the otherhand, I thought, had an excellent cast of both companions and NPCs.

But of course, a lot of that is subjective.

I found the total of Origins more than the sum of its parts. DA2 was less , and most parts weren´t good anyway. ME2 is another game I find the total is less than the sum, but they were good enough that I still like the game.

[KnightofPhoenix]

UnspokenSoul22 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And I have pretty much the polar opposite opinion when it comes to characters. Other than Varric and Aveline, I really can't think of a DA2 character, companion or NPC, that I like that much. None of them are really that memorable to me. DA:O on the otherhand, I thought, had an excellent cast of both companions and NPCs.

But of course, a lot of that has is subjective.

Really? I thought Fenris, Anders, Varric, Sandal and his father, Bartrand, and your family were very well executed. I hated Aveline and Meril (sp?) with all my might. Even the rest of the cast, like Meredith, were represented in a good way.

Meredith done in a good way?

Yea, let's just say we've now determined that we can't agree on anything in the future

[Zanallen]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

*rubs temples*

I see. I didn't know it was this cheaper.

According to Gaider, a game's cost is the amount of money it takes to keep the development studio running while making the game plus salaries.

Here is the quote: "DAO took roughly 5 years to make. DA2 took just over a year? The only
cost for a development studio is the money spent in keeping it running
and all its employees paid. What part of that comparison is so
surprising to you? If you feel that we should have spent more time
making the game, that's a reasonable suggestion. My response was
regarding the comment that the sales (as in the number of units sold)
would be the only takeaway we would listen to-- and I was responding to
that only, in that there is far more involved."

From this thread: http://social.biowar...ndex/7512538/13

[mesmerizedish]

Zanallen wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

*rubs temples*

I see. I didn't know it was this cheaper.

According to Gaider, a game's cost is the amount of money it takes to keep the development studio running while making the game plus salaries.

Here is the quote: "DAO took roughly 5 years to make. DA2 took just over a year? The only
cost for a development studio is the money spent in keeping it running
and all its employees paid. What part of that comparison is so
surprising to you? If you feel that we should have spent more time
making the game, that's a reasonable suggestion. My response was
regarding the comment that the sales (as in the number of units sold)
would be the only takeaway we would listen to-- and I was responding to
that only, in that there is far more involved."

From this thread: http://social.biowar...ndex/7512538/13

hoorayforicecream has said many insightful things regarding dev time and how it impacts profits

[Tsuga C]

Zanallen wrote...
Possibly. Going by what Gaider said a few weeks ago, it seems that DA2 cost 1/5th of what DA:O did. So if DA2 reaches even half of Origin's sales, it is financially a success.

This only stands to reason as they didn't have to develop an entirely new milieu and game engine for DA2.  What's important is what effect the cRPG-lite, actiony character of DA2 will have upon sales of DA3. 

[oldmansavage]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

UnspokenSoul22 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And I have pretty much the polar opposite opinion when it comes to characters. Other than Varric and Aveline, I really can't think of a DA2 character, companion or NPC, that I like that much. None of them are really that memorable to me. DA:O on the otherhand, I thought, had an excellent cast of both companions and NPCs.

But of course, a lot of that has is subjective.

Really? I thought Fenris, Anders, Varric, Sandal and his father, Bartrand, and your family were very well executed. I hated Aveline and Meril (sp?) with all my might. Even the rest of the cast, like Meredith, were represented in a good way.

Meredith done in a good way?

Yea, let's just say we've now determined that we can't agree on anything in the future

You have to take into consideration you are speaking with someone who wanted to abolish the codex, I believe you two are on different sides of the rpg spectrum.

[Sanguinerin]

I think that less people would have a problem (including the "core fans") with the "innovations" in Dragon Age II if the changes were given a proper amount of time to be fully developed. I think that a lot of the ideas put into the game were actually quite good. Finding them good, however, ends when you move from theory into practice. The game wasn't under development long enough to properly make this game something great--something on par with Dragon Age: Origins.

It was a massive overhaul of "innovations," and as such it needed more time to carry those out. I have no problem with the game if we just want to talk about it theoretically. I just... Haven't been able to play it a second time because the finished product feels like I went through some Beta version of a game, and I feel like there should be a lot more polish coming to me in the end for that final product. Then I read reviews like this where they're satisfied with this and realize, "no, this is actually it?"

I'm still hoping for something amazing from the Mass Effect team. I do feel like they might be listening to the fans. Only time (and more content) will tell if the Dragon Age team is actually doing the same. If Dragon Age II is the epitome of the future of the series... I'm out. If they actually can show us that they're listening, then I'm hoping to see amazing RPGs as I always used to give credit to BioWare for, in this very beautiful and interesting world that they've created.

I would hate that my adventures in Thedas end with this... But at least I do always have Origins as a reminder if it doesn't improve any more from here.

[Zanallen]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
hoorayforicecream has said many insightful things regarding dev time and how it impacts profits

She is quite insightful.........for a pony.

[Zanallen]

oldmansavage wrote...

You have to take into consideration you are speaking with someone who wanted to abolish the codex, I believe you two are on different sides of the rpg spectrum.

I wouldn't mind abolishing the console version of the codex. It is horrible, ugly and hard to read.

[UnspokenSoul22]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Meredith done in a good way?

Yea, let's just say we've now determined that we can't agree on anything in the future

Ha, ha! I'm sorry, Knight! I just liked that she was a complete and utter beach. xD ((Dumb filter.))

Hm. I'm trying to think what this new DLC might include. It'll probably represent something of Awakening, no? I bet BW's going to try to appease their buyers by letting you journey out of Kirkwall and maybe sperad your influence to other parts of the world. Perhaps they'll let you go back to Lothering. Who knows?

I really just hope it's not some half-baked potato--erm, attempt at getting fans back into the series. Hopefully, it's relatively cheap and provides at least a couple hours of gameplay? It'd even be better to see them make an epilogue of sorts for DA2. Give us fifteen hours or so to get the heck of of Kirkwall! ~sigh~ Wouldn't that be nice...

-edit- I don't mind readng the codex, yet, this time around, I felt no need to and wasn't interested. I prefer to interact with characters than reading some blabber about goblins and kingdoms.

Modifié par UnspokenSoul22, 17 juin 2011 - 08:35 .