1248 réponses à ce sujet

[TMZuk]

That's not really an enticement for me to buy DA2 in the hope that they will address the multiple issues it has, nor to have any hopes for DA3.

Oh well. DA:O was fun, at least. To bad it ends there.

[Addai]

That PR line makes me angrier every time I see it. Using Origins' popularity to try to skate by on much curtailed development time- a lot of critics call DA2 a cynical cash grab- is not "innovation." Stop trying to sell it as such, because the PRspeak is so blatant that it just makes things worse. Bioware, you're insulting our intelligence.  Unless you really think your fanbase has none.  I know the forums can cause doubt...

Modifié par Addai67, 17 juin 2011 - 04:42 .

[Salaya]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

...

The definition of innovative:

Introducing new ideas; original and creative in thinking


A flawed new idea is still a new idea. What I hope for is that they work on these new ideas to make them.... well, not flawed.


That said, if reusing maps is what was going through their head as innovative, they must've taken a bowling ball to the head.

I agree

DA2 is clearly different and creative respect Origins. But that does'nt mean is good, or, in general, that innovative changes are always good. Not only the changes were poorly implemented, but also were plain bad for gameplay (thats my opinion, of course; im aware there is people who like the changes)

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Because clearly, the re-used maps are precisely what he was referring to.

Thats the issue with these interviews- they never say what they thought was innovative. I suppose Frank Gibeau mentioned the combat and narrative, but really? Again, in concept maybe it looked innovative but as executed it wasn't much to write home about, IMO.

Most of the "innovative" features of DA2 have been done before in other games and done better in other games.

The way I see it, he's using the word "innovative" to refer to changes that were new for DA as a franchise, not neccesarily something that's new for the crpgs or gaming industry as a whole.

Personally, I think using the word "changes" rather than "innovation" would have been more accurate.

[turian councilor Knockout]

The only innovative thing i can come up with is the elves new super ugly ears, they're almost bigger than the characters head itself.

Modifié par turian councilor Knockout, 17 juin 2011 - 04:46 .

[Feanor_II]

Innovations? Very little the truth. What they've mostly done is:
- Remove tons of gaming features from DA:O
- Copy paste featuress from ME series

Well I adress the new combat system as innovative..... but as action game (I'm PC player but I also own a PS3 and I tried the demo) is milles away from, let's say, God Of War.

[syllogi]

I have no problem with Bioware defending "innovations," but claiming that the only reason that DA:O fans (or anyone who picked up DA2) would have with the game are the "innovations" is disingenuous.

They *know* that recycled maps, lazy quest design, wildly varying degrees in quality for graphics, and a rushed and shoddy third act, are not innovations. Until they start marketing DA3, however, and suddenly decide to start trashing DA2 publicly, the way they did to DA:O while marketing DA2, we're not going to get anything resembling an acknowledgement.

[Atakuma]

TeenZombie wrote...
Until they start marketing DA3, however, and suddenly decide to start trashing DA2 publicly, the way they did to DA:O while marketing DA2, we're not going to get anything resembling an acknowledgement.

They have never trashed DA:O. Pointing out what they believed were flaws, is not the same as trashing it.

Modifié par Atakuma, 17 juin 2011 - 04:55 .

[sphinxess]

I really wonder about DA2 drawing a bunch of new fans - maybe its just me - but if the first game in a series doesn't convince me to buy it - I won't bother looking at any later ones.

The "maybe they were looking for more of the same" comment bugs me too - they keep using it as a talking point but I don't see these forums at least being all that stodgy - we debate the pros and cons of voice etc but most people see some value in both sides of the argument.

Modifié par sphinxess, 17 juin 2011 - 04:55 .

[Eski.Moe]

Love how using 'innovations' as a defense has become a knee-jerk reaction of sorts. What innovations? Must be a definition that I'm not accustomed to.
Still, I'm actually looking forward to seeing how this upcoming DLC is supposed to be made in a way that deals with concerns.

[Eski.Moe]

sphinxess wrote...
The "maybe they were looking for more of the same" comment bugs me too - they keep using it as a talking point but I don't see these forums at least being all that stodgy - we debate the pros and cons of voice etc but most people see some value in both sides of the argument.

I know, that's a ridiculous argument. Yes, it would've been nice if it built off the first game but the abrupt shift in style and changes were so half-baked that it isn't funny. You wanna change directions? Go for it, by all means. Don't just superficially implement them though.

[-Semper-]

dr doom wrote...

We think it was innovative. We're proud of the risks the team took. We  think it's the right direction for the franchise

just let them live happily in their dream. they will wake up with the weak sales figures da3 will generate.

[_Aine_]

errant_knight wrote...

Depressing. Completely and utterly depressing.

this.  

I wasn't among those fans who thought it was horrible. It did some things very well. What I do believe though is that it was commercially successful more because it was cheaper (cut corners big time) and rode on the coattails of the success of DAO.  

I dislike immensely the passive-aggressive finger-pointing phrasing of "fans not liking their innovative approach" but what can you do?   If it is *our* fault for not liking the cost-cutting (because that is where most of their innovation lies) then so be it. It will be just as easy to let them have their commercial successes through making mediocre games done half-arsed for time limitations that help them make more money, more quickly and find other games to play.  My hope is that they find ways of fixing what was wrong with DA2 while still saving the money they are set on saving at almost any cost. That and perhaps think carefully before you say people don't like your "innovations".   It implies that fans don't know a good thing when we see it, which calls into question either our intelligence or our taste.  Dangerous waters to tread when the same people have said they have liked you.... 

Who doesn't like well-done innovation? It wasn't innovative. It was mass produced with some unique approaches to certain things.  Uniquely cutting costs doesn't make it innovative.... 

This sort of statement actually makes me dislike the game more than I did before I read it, which is an alarm bell for bad PR to me.  I don't get angry often, and that makes me just a tiny bit angry.  It is knee-jerk defensiveness on their part to a perceived "unfair" opinion from what they are making out to be a small number of fans (based on getting so many "new" fans and having "most" of the old fans like it, their words not mine)  

I was starting to feel bad for bioware and almost tempted to defend them from the rabid fans, but no more.  With all their innovations, I am sure they can craft something affordable to protect their narcissism from the fanbase.  

[Nerdage]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

wastelander75 wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Innovative in what ways? The dominant personality? That's from Alpha Protocol. The F/R system? Alpha Protocol. The framed narrative? I would appreciate it if someone actually pointed out something innovative in DA2 to me.

Framed Narrative: Final Fantasy X did it (for the better part of the game, you're playing the past as Tidus narrates).
Action Adventure Combat: Jade Empire did it.
Dialogue Wheel: Mass Effect did it

Recycled maps and convoluted plot holes: All DA 2.

I think that using the word "innovative", rather than saying "borrowing elements from other forms of entertainment", is just plain stupid. And if they actually think that they did infact innovate with DA2, they are sorely mistaken. Either that, or Frank Gibeau and the good doctors need to look up the word innovation in a dictionary. No offense, of course.

nerdage wrote...

Innovations:

1. the introduction of something new
2. a new idea, method, or device.

The word implies nothing of the idea's worth, just that it was new (and in context he really just means new to Dragon Age, not the whole industry).

[oldmansavage]

This guy is either being disingenuous or a complete embicile.  Seeing how you don't get to where he is at by being an embicile i'll assume the former.

Modifié par oldmansavage, 17 juin 2011 - 05:05 .

[fchopin]

"We have some new DLC that's upcoming that's going to try and address some of the comments and try and provide the fans with the things they're looking for, both the core fans and the new fans," BioWare boss Ray Muzyka told Eurogamer.

If the DLC's are free i would welcome them.

If you think i will pay for more DLC's to fix problems in the game then you must think i am an idiot.

I paid for the game so if you think it needs improving then it should be free. I will not pay more money for a game i have already bought with hard earned cash.

[syllogi]

Atakuma wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...
Until they start marketing DA3, however, and suddenly decide to start trashing DA2 publicly, the way they did to DA:O while marketing DA2, we're not going to get anything resembling an acknowledgement.

They have never trashed DA:O. Pointing out what they believed were flaws, is not the same as trashing it.

I have no problem with what appeared to be legitimate concerns and wanting to fix them in DA2, but some of the things said were just ridiculous.  I don't know what else to call David Silverman's interview where he said one of the problems with DA:O was that the Brecilian Forest and the Deep Roads looked nothing alike, other than "trashing" the game, since there's no real way to defend against such a statement.

[alex90c]

I like how they say a lot of people loved the game and yet the Dragon Age 2 forum ever since release has just been "feature x sucks" and "i hate da2" (on the whole) for practically three months straight.

[Atakuma]

Addai67 wrote...

That PR line makes me angrier every time I see it. Using Origins' popularity to try to skate by on much curtailed development time- a lot of critics call DA2 a cynical cash grab- is not "innovation." Stop trying to sell it as such, because the PRspeak is so blatant that it just makes things worse. Bioware, you're insulting our intelligence.  Unless you really think your fanbase has none.  I know the forums can cause doubt...

There is really nothing Bioware can do about it EA is in charge of marketing and Muzyka is little more than a corperate sock puppet.