1248 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

cmessaz wrote...
LOL...but I'm mostly NOT referring to you. While I don't agree with some of your posts, I feel you generally don't spew useless hate. I'm just saying, I have an opinion, and you (and others) have an opinion. I just don't get why the people who didn't like the game think their opinion matters more and Bioware should listen to THEM.

Mostly?
Well these are forums. We need the illusion that we are important, otherwise what's the point. I agree that useless hate is...useless. But frankly, it's easily ignored and I think there are a lot of people who are criticizing reasonably. And it's a criticism that is usually shared by many, even those who like the game.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 18 juin 2011 - 03:00 .

[FieryDove]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Let's dial it down a notch, folks. It's Friday night, and some of us would like to finally leave work and go home and not find that this thread has exploded. Thanks, everyone.

You missed the memo. You have to stay all weekend and watch the thread.

[Gunderic]

Persephone wrote...

Gunderic wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Gunderic wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Serious question:

So since Bioware is expected to "own up" to everything a part of the fanbase dislikes about the game and must not show a bit of fondness for their creation....

Where does that leave the fans who liked it? Might they RAGE about being unimportant (Except for sidenotes ala "Some loved it....") and ignored?

Bioware has to be very careful on both sides, it's a hellish balance to keep.

How about they just... stop calling the game "innovative" or "the right direction for the franchise". I mean, I just think... that would go a long way. It doesn't seem like a hard thing to do. For once.

So they are not PERMITTED to feel that way because you and some others say so.

Gotcha.:innocent:

No, not necessarily. It would just go a long way in not continuing to polarise the fan base.

Or how about said fanbase showing HALF or the courtesy and respect they are expecting from Bioware?

So you're saying Muzyka is just trolling us because we didn't behave on the forums? Otherwise, I don't understand how this affects him.

[Thor Rand Al]

I know I say I love DA2 which I do, but I'm not gonna say I'd rate it 100%.  There where a few area's I didn't quit agree with n one was rivalling Anders n not being able to be promage.  But I was warned about this too.  Made for an interestin gameplay, lot of confusion lmao. But the things I did enjoy was the voiced character, the "You where searching for this" quests, the wheel n a lot more. 
Hated the crying that the game had me do lol but that also added more realism.  Brought me closer in the game world.  It wasn't just a hack n slash game.  For me it added emersion by adding the sobbing parts n the funny Hawke remarks parts lol.  All in all I truly enjoyed it, yes there's some parts that had me baffled but so did others.  I'm just not about to flame a whole game just for a few troubling parts. There's the positive side to the game just like there's the negative.  To say you hate the whole game because of a few negative areas just doesn't seem right or fair and there are other's who watch these forums who haven't bought the game but are wonderin what it's like that see the negative remarks n decide to never even try because of the flaming.  N like cmz said if I didn't enjoy it I wouldn't play it n I'm going to be working on my 6th playthrough so yes I enjoy it. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Thor Rand Al wrote...
 There's the positive side to the game just like there's the negative.  To say you hate the whole game because of a few negative areas just doesn't seem right or fair  

Except there might be a bit more than just "a few". I can just as easily say that it's not fair to love the game because of a few positive areas, which I wouldnt' say btw.

Furthermore, some areas are more important than others. It's the overall experience that matters and yea, sometimes the sum of little things can ruin it for you.

[cmessaz]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

cmessaz wrote...
LOL...but I'm mostly NOT referring to you. While I don't agree with some of your posts, I feel you generally don't spew useless hate. I'm just saying, I have an opinion, and you (and others) have an opinion. I just don't get why the people who didn't like the game think their opinion matters more and Bioware should listen to THEM.

Mostly?
Well these are forums. We need the illusion that we are important, otherwise what's the point. I agree that useless hate is...useless. But frankly, it's easily ignored and I think there are a lot of people who are criticizing reasonably. And it's a criticism that is usually shared by many, even those who like the game.

And I have no problem at all with that. I'd love to discuss critisizm with someone to be honest, without the crap. Of course I have some issues, as I did in Origins.

And...it's sadly not easily ignored.   I mean I mostly just avoid the forums because of the negativity. But I feel like I haven't been able to discuss the game at all and would love to...just need a safe place to do it. Safe without saying my opinion isn't as important as someone elses or that I'm not a true RPG player...etc.

[ink07]

The same old guys fighting the good fight in here and Bioware still not owning up to its mistakes and passing it as "our game was so innovative fans didn't get it".

Keep it up BW, let's see how commercially succesful DA3 is shall you keep antagonizing people with your PR spins.

[Melca36]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Melca36 wrote...
Oh and my husband....would like some BETTER female characters.  He liked Isabela but hated Merill.

But Isabela's appeal was NOT enough for him to play again.  

They all can't be Morrigan

That's true.

Merrill just makes him feel so uncomfortable!!! 

[KnightofPhoenix]

cmessaz wrote...
And...it's sadly not easily ignored.   I mean I mostly just avoid the forums because of the negativity. But I feel like I haven't been able to discuss the game at all and would love to...just need a safe place to do it. Safe without saying my opinion isn't as important as someone elses or that I'm not a true RPG player...etc.

You people are way too sensitive
But yea, I understand.

And for what it's worth, I apologize since I tend to snark about it. But I expected people were used to me being that way by now. 

[Melca36]

cmessaz wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

cmessaz wrote...
LOL...but I'm mostly NOT referring to you. While I don't agree with some of your posts, I feel you generally don't spew useless hate. I'm just saying, I have an opinion, and you (and others) have an opinion. I just don't get why the people who didn't like the game think their opinion matters more and Bioware should listen to THEM.

Mostly?
Well these are forums. We need the illusion that we are important, otherwise what's the point. I agree that useless hate is...useless. But frankly, it's easily ignored and I think there are a lot of people who are criticizing reasonably. And it's a criticism that is usually shared by many, even those who like the game.

And I have no problem at all with that. I'd love to discuss critisizm with someone to be honest, without the crap. Of course I have some issues, as I did in Origins.

And...it's sadly not easily ignored.   I mean I mostly just avoid the forums because of the negativity. But I feel like I haven't been able to discuss the game at all and would love to...just need a safe place to do it. Safe without saying my opinion isn't as important as someone elses or that I'm not a true RPG player...etc.

Well you know we have had some good discussion and you know how I feel and we're still friends. :happy:

But then again we are both "Terrorist Supporters" of Anders and we have that bond.

[cmessaz]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

cmessaz wrote...
And...it's sadly not easily ignored.   I mean I mostly just avoid the forums because of the negativity. But I feel like I haven't been able to discuss the game at all and would love to...just need a safe place to do it. Safe without saying my opinion isn't as important as someone elses or that I'm not a true RPG player...etc.

You people are way too sensitive
But yea, I understand.

And for what it's worth, I apologize since I tend to snark about it. But I expected people were used to me being that way by now. 

LOL, yep 

And no one needs to apologise. But seriously if we all stated our opinions in a contstructive way, both haters and people who liked it, Bioware would probably be more likely to listen.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

cmessaz wrote...

LOL, yep 

And no one needs to apologise. But seriously if we all stated our opinions in a contstructive way, both haters and people who liked it, Bioware would probably be more likely to listen.

This is the true gem in all the posts I've seen in this thread.

[KnightofPhoenix]

cmessaz wrote...
And no one needs to apologise. But seriously if we all stated our opinions in a contstructive way, both haters and people who liked it, Bioware would probably be more likely to listen.

There comes a point where you can't just keep writing the same big wall of text every time though.


It's the same as Loghain / Alsitair debates. It started out epic, then became a nay yay fight, then got epic again, then many Alistair fangirl realized I was right and started loving Loghain . You know?

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 18 juin 2011 - 03:12 .

[Gunderic]

Rojahar wrote...

Gunderic wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Gunderic wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Serious question:

So since Bioware is expected to "own up" to everything a part of the fanbase dislikes about the game and must not show a bit of fondness for their creation....

Where does that leave the fans who liked it? Might they RAGE about being unimportant (Except for sidenotes ala "Some loved it....") and ignored?

Bioware has to be very careful on both sides, it's a hellish balance to keep.

How about they just... stop calling the game "innovative" or "the right direction for the franchise". I mean, I just think... that would go a long way. It doesn't seem like a hard thing to do. For once.

So they are not PERMITTED to feel that way because you and some others say so.

Gotcha.:innocent:

No, not necessarily. It would just go a long way in not continuing to polarise the fan base.

But what your suggesting would. You're suggesting Bioware outright alienate any fans of the current direction, to simply appease the DA2 haters, but not everyone loved DAO more than DA2. Some people would view it as taking steps backward. In-fact, DA2 has brought in new people, as not everyone even liked DAO. A lot of people never even finished it, and even among the "hardcore DAO fans" I'm shocked and saddened to see that most haven't even played half the origins.

I don't think I'm suggesting any of that. My point was that you don't have to appease one crowd by making it seem as if you're discounting another one's complaints with the game, at least not outside of actual development. Not calling general changes brought about by Dragon Age 2 'innovations' is a good way of not making it seem as if you're discounting some of those complaints.

Modifié par Gunderic, 18 juin 2011 - 03:14 .

[Realmzmaster]

Persephone wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...



You nailed it right on the wall cmz, one reason I stayed away because it was downright rude to make a positive comment about something n get slammed for making that comment.  But I'm done hiding in the shadows afraid to get slammed.  I enjoy DA2, I know others do to, lol time to stand back up and say so

As someone who rated the DA:2  a 7/8 I feel the need to point out that it goes BOTH ways.<_<

I have been called a HATER for giving the game that score which I think is more than fair. I've also been called a BLIND fangirl from the other side for giving it that score

Also...the hardcore DA:2 fans (The ones who rate it a 10) and bash Origins are not doing any favors.  Its like people have forgotten how many awards Origins won.

Why can't people enjoy both games???

Bolded part: It's not like these people are swarming all over the forums. Like.....a 0.2% minority.....if even that.

The other side however.........

The reason why some on both sides are attacking any positive or negative comment is because of fear. Some are afraid if the developers listen to one side more than another they will not get the game they want or envision.
Some of the "haters" bash DA2 because they wanted a game like DAO. Some of the "supporters" of DA2 bash the DA2 "haters" because the DA2 "supporters" are afraid that Bioware will regress and produce a game like DAO again.

The fear is that the loudest squeaky wheel will get the game they want.

The vast majority of forummates have a reasoned opinion of why they like or dislike the game. The game has its flaws. If you cannot deal with the flaws then you may fall into the dislike category and vice versa.

As far as the word innovative, it has been misused by marketing since it creation. The same as new and improved. It is marketing hype. It is used to sell product by getting the consumer's attention.

It is also used to describe changes that have not been seen (in this case) in a particular series. Not that other games do not have the innovation or have done something similar to it.

A lot of people used the word when they cannot think of something better at the time. It is also natural for a developer to defend their product, especially if not one is given a reasoned opinion for the attack against the product.

We are now seeing far more civil discussion about the game merits or lack thereof. The heated calls for tar and feathering or job dismissal have died down. We are now into a more rational debate.

Fear eventually gives way to reason. So let us sit down with the developers and reason with them.

[Redcoat]

Reading this thread has made me rather interested in any forthcoming DLC for DA2. As so many people have pointed out, actions speak louder than words, and the DLC could be an interesting barometer of how BioWare is going to respond to feedback.

That said, I will not purchase any DLC that involves Hawke. I'm sorry, but I have less than no interest in the continuing adventures of that twit.

[cmessaz]

mrcrusty wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

LOL, yep 

And no one needs to apologise. But seriously if we all stated our opinions in a contstructive way, both haters and people who liked it, Bioware would probably be more likely to listen.

This is the true gem in all the posts I've seen in this thread.

Why do I feel like a Jackass?

And KoP I'm still an Alistair fangirl. I just like Loghain too D: I know!!!!! Crazy!!!!

[Thor Rand Al]

cmessaz wrote...
And...it's sadly not easily ignored.   I mean I mostly just avoid the forums because of the negativity. But I feel like I haven't been able to discuss the game at all and would love to...just need a safe place to do it. Safe without saying my opinion isn't as important as someone elses or that I'm not a true RPG player...etc.

Here, Here, cheers  cmz n I so agree with you

[KnightofPhoenix]

cmessaz wrote...
And KoP I'm still an Alistair fangirl. I just like Loghain too D: I know!!!!! Crazy!!!!

I know, I know. But still I was right

[FieryDove]

cmessaz wrote...

LOL, yep 

And no one needs to apologise. But seriously if we all stated our opinions in a contstructive way, both haters and people who liked it, Bioware would probably be more likely to listen.

Well good now I know I'm not a "hater" since I liked DA2, I just have some concerns with it that turned out not so good, bad or even very bad. But there we go again people who have problems might be tired of hearing you are a whiner/hater unless everythintg is all roses. It goes both ways and gets OLD.

I still vote for world peace.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Redcoat wrote...

Reading this thread has made me rather interested in any forthcoming DLC for DA2. As so many people have pointed out, actions speak louder than words, and the DLC could be an interesting barometer of how BioWare is going to respond to feedback.

That said, I will not purchase any DLC that involves Hawke. I'm sorry, but I have less than no interest in the continuing adventures of that twit.

Funnily enough, I feel the opposite. I think Hawke's tale should either be given some depth, or be completed through the DLC.

Using the DLC to introduce a brand new protagonist, or leave Hawke completely out of the picture, doesn't sound like a good idea unless they can really spin it well.

cmessaz wrote...

Why do I feel like a Jackass?

And KoP I'm still an Alistair fangirl. I just like Loghain too D: I know!!!!! Crazy!!!!

?

I'm being serious. There's reasonable debate going on here, but there's also an awful lot of mudslinging and poo throwing. If everyone took your attitude to these discussions, they'd be a lot more welcoming, would provide for more constructive discussion and would allow for more people to express their own viewpoint.

Granted, I am not the epitome of reasonable thought. I often relish derailing silly threads with ridiculous pictures, but I do think that sometimes the snark on both sides go too far.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 18 juin 2011 - 03:18 .

[cmessaz]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

cmessaz wrote...
And KoP I'm still an Alistair fangirl. I just like Loghain too D: I know!!!!! Crazy!!!!

I know, I know. But still I was right

I am in the habit of never admiting a man is right. So no you weren't. I just....needed to try something new...because I was bored....

[KnightofPhoenix]

Realmzmaster wrote...
Fear eventually gives way to reason. So let us sit down with the developers and reason with them.

First, excellent post.

And I believe the devs should initiate the interaction with the community. By first making less use of vague comments and being more specific.

EDIT: which I don't expect will happen soon. And I understand.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 18 juin 2011 - 03:18 .

[In Exile]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote..

But it's lore that's not of particular note for the *game*. The Codex covers a heap of stuff, from mechanics monsters  to random books about countries you don't even  have to care about. Nothing in 'The Cardinal Rules of Magic' is stuff you have to know, or even get to talk about with people.

I think it's something interesting to know. It lets you get an idea of what is and isn't impossible in the game. And I think it's something that should be incorporated in the game over (for example) a merchant getting harrased to give over his goods.

It's impractical and illogical to dispense with written books, notes and letters. I'd find it jarring to have my PC walk into a library and not be able to read any of the books.

I don't think books should be missing. I just think the codex should only touch on places & things never part of the game (and magic is certainly part of the game).

They're also convenient for lore nerds who want to fire up the game and make a reference check.

And they're also a source of heart attacks when the lore doesn't fit with the game.

Which is great, for a quest. DA2 quests are not as sophisticated and twisty-turny as TW2 quests, but you don't have to read any codices to solve them. Not one. Even the quest with the Fell Grimoires, which *are* books, you don't read as codex entries.

Right. I'm not saying you have to do this in DA2; I'm saying I think it would be better designed if the lore was integrated in the quests.

Even The Witcher 2 had reading. You could buy books or find books. There was stuff on geography, history, NPCs and monsters. How is that any different to the codex in DA2?

I'm not praising TW2 as a whole. I was just using that one quest as an example of lore being dictated actively to the player through a quest instead of passively through a codex (e.g. the Enigma of Kirkwall).

The only DA2 codex-based information I really wanted to see in the game was evidence of the Enigma of Kirkwall, because that could have been hugely important for the mage/templar conflict. Sadly it was only reading material that you couldn't even show or talk to anyone about. It's because the material was so *good* that I wanted it to go beyond a few codices.

I think everything on the characters developing year-to-year should have been in-game.