[quote]In Exile wrote...
No, not story-wise. Story-wise, you don't have a choice at all. You can't, for example, go to Orlais and get
actual Grey Wardens. Story-wise you have absolutely no choice but to solve every mission the same way except for a single choice 10 seconds
from the end. [/quote]
Not true. You can decide a course before going on that mission. Does it change much? No. But you get make the
choice before starting and confirm it at the end. For instance, Templars and mages. You can decide what to do 3-4 times throughout.
Does it give you a lot of huge choices that can change the entire game? No.
That doesn't mean there is no a big amount of choices in the story. And I am not saying DA:O pulled it off perfectly. TW2 beats them both. Easily.
[quote]
You obey. There are lots of things you
could do to want to stop the blight: but you don't have a convincing argument
put foward other than: you have to want to save Ferelden. But that's no different than being told that you aren't allowed to care about the mage/templar conflicy. [/quote]
It's different, because the Warden acts for something while Hawke doesn't do anything because he doens't care about the main thing that is going on.
[quote]
No, you don't. You don't know you can recruit any of these allies. I'll 100% grant you the werewolves - that's an out of left field choice the Warden can offer with no prompting. But otherwise you go there to get a single ally: and it turns out
right at the end that there could be another choice you make.
But you don't choose to go to the Brecelian forest to get the Werewolves. You don't choose to go Orzammar to get Golems. It's all you being the errand boy (or girl).[/quote]
Yes, you do. You know that you can recruit Tempalrs before you go to the Tower. You confirm that choice during the quest. You decide who you want to support for the throne in Orzammar, and confirm at the end. You can try to negotiate with werewolves the moment you see them, and then come to a decision almost at the end.
Golems no, since it wouldn't make sense for you to know.
[quote]
Eamon tells you he won't call the Landsmeet without you gathering other allies for the Blight; but none of the allies you gather are going to fight to put a King in Ferelden. In fact, there is no army the Warden has at all, and Eamon makes it
very clear if Loghain wins in the Landsmeet he will bend his knee. [/quote]
Except the army is a clear signal that you are an alternative to Loghain in fighting the blight, hence why he says that it's either you and him the men will follow. If you didn't have an army, no one would care.
[quote]
You can't out manuever him at all, since you follow orders to save Anora, and then you follow orders to investigate the Landsmeet. [/quote]
Yes you can. He wants Alsitair on the throne and he wants to be his chancellor. You can end up with executing the last Therein, and placing Anora on the throne. How is that not out-maneuvring him?
[quote]
No. It's two choices. Otherwise you have to say that a lot of non-choices in DA2 are actual choices (because the Chancellor choice has
no consequences). Alistair + Warden can't exist if the Warden is male. Anora+Warden can't
exist if the Warden is female and/or not a Cousland. [/quote]
Of course some options are restricted based on who the Warden is. How does that make the choice non-existent? That's like saying that warrior not being able to use magic is removing choice.
I don't remember saying that DA2 had no choices. Just that I felt DA:O had more, and ones that interested me more. Especially when DA2 had the potential to be more than just that.
[quote]
It's not about them being developed. It's about RP, and inventing an in-character motivation. [/quote]
And if I dont' feel they are developped well enough for me to care, then I don't even want to RP. And yes, I know that people can feel this way about Origins and they are entitled to.
[quote]
I don't think DA:O gave me any reason to care about Ferelden for any Origin except for the Human Noble. [/quote]
I most certainly agree.
[quote]
I'm not criticizing it for being a typical hero story. I'm saying DA:O is something worse: it's a fight for the sake of the status quo. [/quote]
Bhelen is not status quo. Anora / Alsitair is not the status quo either, each in their own way. In addition, there are the boons and choices, like the Circle in Orzammar...etc.
There are definitely ways to change the status quo.
Is it a 180 degrees change? Of course not, and that's unreasonable to expect.
[quote]
But Hawke not caring is just like the Warden caring. You've just flipped the switch. You really cared about Ferelden. Awesome for you. But that isn't something that makes the Warden more active. [/quote]
No, not at all.
That's exactly the difference between beign passive and active. If you don't care about the main thiung that is happenign around you, you'll be passive. If you do care, you'll be active.
Now you can say that Hawke can care about his family instead and if that works for you, good
for you. But I'd much rather care about the thing that is making the whole city collapse, when I have the capacity to.
[quote]
No, it isn't. The dwarf noble has an automatic crown of rulership from a paragon saying "I don't give a flying **** what you do with it."
With a Cousland, you potentially have someone
blessed by the Maker (I found the ashes of Andraste) against the common born child of a traitor and a bastard you don't even have a reason to believe is a descendant of Marric in the first-place.
So, no, it has nothing to do with being stupid. [/quote]
I thought you were talking about a Dwarf becomign King of Ferelden. Granted. But there are alternatives. Prince Consort, or being chancellor to a weak Alsitair. And having Harrowmont on the throne, would more likely allow your Warden to influence him (plus you become a paragon only at the very end). Both are a rise to power. Ideally of course, I would have wanted more options.
[quote]
Okay, so play a Hawke who become Viscount by exterminating the mages. You just rose to power. Is it the power you want?
Do you see how inane this argument you're putting forward is? [/quote]
No, here's why. I don't get to choose to be Viscount. It's imposed on me simply because I slaughtered mages. That's it. My Hawke didnt' have to work for it, or think for it. Or even want it. It's just given, even when it makes no sense (if apostate). So no, that's not power, nor is it a rise.
[quote]
I'm not saying DA2 didn't have flaws - just the opposite. I'm only pointing out DA:O
had the same flaws as DA2.
[/quote]
A lot of them, yes. Not denying that. And I wished that DA2 was actually true to its concepts.
But overall, I do feel that the Warden was more active and had more influence. Better writing for the most part and better companions. But I am not saying that DA:O is most definitely better. A lot of it has to do with buying in, of course. Like I said before, the more I think about it, the more flaws Origins had. But the overall experience was positive for me. And that's just me.
And when I criticize DA2, I usually do so with the desire to have DA surpass Origins. Not be equal to it. Because that's what I was thinking will happen when I believed the marketing.
Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 18 juin 2011 - 05:18 .
Retour en haut
) for some money towards my future preorder of Skyrim. I'm holding back for now because I'd rather not be too rash just in case DA3 does indeed improve on where DA2 failed. I hope my keeping DA2 isn't a mistake 
How many people would get on the Alistair thread and just feel like they were a part of the group, yes there were heated discussions but it was done in taste. I remember quit a few times people would come in and say hey I'm new, n they'd be welcomed basically with open arms. Asked to not be afraid to speak their mind, it was a fun thread that "everyone" got to have a chance to talk about their favorite character, whether it was good or bad but it was done with taste. Ya don't see that hardly anymore n it's a shame.
