1248 réponses à ce sujet

[phoenixgoddess27]

Bejos_ wrote...


Perhaps people are taking it personally because EA/Bioware is making it personal.

Well, in a way, we can't do anything about it.

The ones who insult our intelligence with their "lalala, not listening, you just don't like it >=<" won't listen to us regardless of what we say, yes, this we know.
But there are a few on the Bioware team who are willing to listen, one of them came into the thread many pages earlier. (JohnEpler, I believe) He was cool. He needs an awesome button. (XD)
We shouldn't respond to the ones who are just going to insult us, because it's obvious they won't stop. So we may as well go the diplomatic route and talk to the ones who are listening with levelheads and respect.

I do have to say, all three sides are completely stubborn. Not all, but as a majority of each side, yes, we all are.
The DAO fans can be a bit ruthless with the hulk smashing(The insults from all of us aren't exactly helping us, no matter how angry we are). The DA2 die hard fans are the most defensive(And really, you're not helping your cause with the insults either), thus, fighting fire with fire, which is only making a bigger fire. Then there's the Bioware/EA team members who rather insult us and quite frankly, show that THEY too, are resistant to change(The whole "lalalalala, not listening" route is a sign of that).

No side is listening to the other sides unless it benefits them, which is sad. If we all listened to each side without the poo slinging war, I strongly believe we can all come to a better conclusion than this. There are people from each side willing to listen. It's obvious we each have an opinion and the best way to express it is to listen to other sides without all the anger.

Here's something funny.
In DAO, we united each part of Fereldan by peace(Okay, some did it with brute force, but most went with peace) and got a relieving ending.(Most of us)
In DA2, no one listened to anyone and Kirkwall went into sodding flames and hell broke loose all over the place. Nothing was really resolved.

Wouldn't we like to go with the former for all of this?

Modifié par phoenixgoddess27, 18 juin 2011 - 10:18 .

[bEVEsthda]

MDT1 wrote...

On a side note, EA has often proven that they at least aren't that interested in a franchises log time success but in its short time profit.

And still, they're so envious of CoD. And they themselves have purchased and had umpteen chances to manage a franchise through success like that.  - And NEVER, not once, elected to do so.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 18 juin 2011 - 10:17 .

[Xewaka]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

Are you kidding it add's more to your character, give's your character more life, I don't understand where it's theft instead of adding.

It doesn't add to my character. It adds to Bioware's, and removes from mine. It is theft because information on how my alleged character will act is hidden from me; I am robbed of the information necessary to play my character, which is hidden behind an obfuscatory and misleading interface.

Thor Rand Al wrote...
But then I've never played a game with a wheel until now and I freakin enjoy it and wouldn't want it any other way. Like I said it adds more to your character, more excitement, more surprise.

I'm going to guess you have never played a game with dialogue selection before, period. However, I did, so I am perfectly aware of how the paraphrases (which are the real issue) hide information that was previously available to the player, thus removing the chance of the player to control his character. When my character surprises me, it is no longer my character. I can be plenty surprised and excited by plot developments: I like a good story. But if I'm asked to roleplay a character (that's the RP part of RPG), and then the tools to properly do so are removed, the game is doing its job wrong.

UnspokenSoul22 wrote...
Agreed. There's nothing more fun than to hear Hawke spout off some quick-witted joke when  it's not expected. Though the wheel idea did come from ME, that doesn't bother me.

The paraphrases were already a failure in ME, and DA 2 failed to improve on them. Paraphrases can never be a proper way to convey character choice because they hide necessary content information from the player to play a coherent character.

Modifié par Xewaka, 18 juin 2011 - 10:17 .

[MDT1]

bEVEsthda wrote...

MDT1 wrote...

On a side note, EA has often proven that they at least aren't that interested in a franchises log time success but in its short time profit.

And still, they're so envious of CoD. And they themselves have purchased and had umpteen chances to manage a franchise through success like that.  - And NEVER, not once, elected to do so.

Yes because they buy a succesful franchise and aim at the CoD players with it. This ruins the franchise and they buy the next one. This is EA's circle of fail.
They don't want to be just successfull.
They want to be successful in the biggest market.
Perhaps they somehow expect CoD players to have the money to buy every single game they release.

[Gibb_Shepard]

My dislike of the game has nothing to do with the fact that it wasn't "more of origins". The story was boring and undirected, the choices were inconsequential, the characters were walking viewpoints and the family dynamic was ridiculously shallow. I'm fine with a more action oriented experience, just when making one, make it good. That may be the reason the game was disliked, not because it wasn't "more of origins", but because it was genuinely rushed and shallow.

[bEVEsthda]

MDT1 wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

MDT1 wrote...

On a side note, EA has often proven that they at least aren't that interested in a franchises log time success but in its short time profit.

And still, they're so envious of CoD. And they themselves have purchased and had umpteen chances to manage a franchise through success like that.  - And NEVER, not once, elected to do so.

Yes because they buy a succesful franchise and aim at the CoD players with it. This ruins the franchise and they buy the next one. This is EA's circle of fail.
They don't want to be just successfull.
They want to be successful in the biggest market.
Perhaps they somehow expect CoD players to have the money to buy every single game they release.

Who says the CoD crowd represents the biggest market? It's not like EA have tried to investigate the market potential of any other franchise.

[Xewaka]

bEVEsthda wrote...
Who says the CoD crowd represents the biggest market? It's not like EA have tried to investigate the market potential of any other franchise.

They actually have. That's why, after Mythic failed to achieve WoW status by painting WoW with Games Workshop's IP, they've put Bioware to (if you allow the grossly oversimplification) paint lightsabers into WoW.

[mesmerizedish]

Xewaka wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...
Who says the CoD crowd represents the biggest market? It's not like EA have tried to investigate the market potential of any other franchise.

They actually have. That's why, after Mythic failed to achieve WoW status by painting WoW with Games Workshop's IP, they've put Bioware to (if you allow the grossly oversimplification) paint lightsabers into WoW.

That's really not a fair comparison if you haven't played TOR. It's not at all "WoW + lightsabers."

[Xewaka]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...
Who says the CoD crowd represents the biggest market? It's not like EA have tried to investigate the market potential of any other franchise.

They actually have. That's why, after Mythic failed to achieve WoW status by painting WoW with Games Workshop's IP, they've put Bioware to (if you allow the grossly oversimplification) paint lightsabers into WoW.

That's really not a fair comparison if you haven't played TOR. It's not at all "WoW + lightsabers."

I hope so, I really do. But considering the trend MMO's been showing, hope is the first step in the road to dissapointment. It doesn't help that its most identifying unique mechanic added to an MMO (the dynamic storyline) has been tainted by a mechanic that I find despicable, obfuscatory, and overall negatively impacting the balance of game enjoyment - the paraphrases.
But this thread is not about TOR, but about the alleged innovations of DA 2 in the franchise. I'd be pleased to continue to discuss TOR by PM or another thread, though. More information is always welcome.

Modifié par Xewaka, 18 juin 2011 - 10:59 .

[Chuvvy]

The narrative was innovative, it was just executed very poorly. The story didn't feel connected at all, it felt like three standalone short stories, better suited for DLC than a real game.

[Master Shiori]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...
They both said that DA2 was different from DA:O (which it is) and that some people weren't happy with these changes (which is true).

Speaking for myself. They don't come out and say "and there are some who, while not minding changes in principle, think we did a poor job implementing them". Which I think is a good part of those who didn't like DA2. Ideally, I'd also want writers to come out and say they didn't do as good job as they could have, at least when it  comes to Act 3 (one kind of came close to admitting it). But of course, they can't really say that at the moment, and I understand.

I also understand why many keep getting pissed off at comments like that. I personally don't get pissed off, but neither do I jump for joy every time I hear them say they are considering feedback. For now, just words to me and sadly, that is no longer enough when it comes from Bioware.

No, for you it's what Bioware does next to adress the issues you had that will actually matter. And that's fair. Just keep in mind that your feedback is only part of overall information Bioware collects from fans and that issues which are important to you may not be important for a large number of other people.

[Master Shiori]

Xewaka wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...
Who says the CoD crowd represents the biggest market? It's not like EA have tried to investigate the market potential of any other franchise.

They actually have. That's why, after Mythic failed to achieve WoW status by painting WoW with Games Workshop's IP, they've put Bioware to (if you allow the grossly oversimplification) paint lightsabers into WoW.

I'd suggest waiting until the game is out and playing it before we throw up comparisons like "WoW with lightsabers". Because, right now, we don't have enough information to judge TOR.

[Vice-Admiral von Titsling]

"But also there were a lot of fans of the original Dragon Age: Origins 
who weren't as happy with it. Maybe they were looking for more of the 
same, and it was different and innovative in ways they weren't 
expecting."

/crosses ME3 off the 'buy' list

[bEVEsthda]

Vice-Admiral von Titsling wrote...

"But also there were a lot of fans of the original Dragon Age: Origins 
who weren't as happy with it. Maybe they were looking for more of the 
same, and it was different and innovative in ways they weren't 
expecting."

/crosses ME3 off the 'buy' list

Yes, I think that is wise.
Because I have a very strong feeling that they think they would 'have got away with it', if it hadn't been for the re-used dungeons and free-falling waves. So they will fix that, add some polish and think they're good.

[K_Tabris]

I'm just happy that they are developing dlc and not leaving DA2 in the dust just because of a few unhappy, excessively loud critics.

[Hurbster]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...
Who says the CoD crowd represents the biggest market? It's not like EA have tried to investigate the market potential of any other franchise.

They actually have. That's why, after Mythic failed to achieve WoW status by painting WoW with Games Workshop's IP, they've put Bioware to (if you allow the grossly oversimplification) paint lightsabers into WoW.

That's really not a fair comparison if you haven't played TOR. It's not at all "WoW + lightsabers."

And to be fair, Mythic said out front that it would be pretty much all PvP with very little PvE content, so it was never going to appeal to as broad an audience as WoW. Wheras TOR has a massive IP but has to make loads of money to be profitable - from what I have seen (and this is NOT a criticism) TOR is patterning itself after WoW, which was pattened after EQ - ect ect. Am i going to give TOR a go, yes of course I am. Will WoW be there for me if I don't like it (a la RIFT), yup - you betcha.

After all, patterning itself on WoW hasn't done RIFT any harm has it ?

[Persephone]

Vice-Admiral von Titsling wrote...

"But also there were a lot of fans of the original Dragon Age: Origins 
who weren't as happy with it. Maybe they were looking for more of the 
same, and it was different and innovative in ways they weren't 
expecting."

/crosses ME3 off the 'buy' list

So a non-ME3 related comment made you decide not to buy a game you might have enjoyed very much.

That's........mature. Yeah, so mature.

[Xewaka]

Xewaka wrote...
They actually have. That's why, after Mythic failed to achieve WoW status by painting WoW with Games Workshop's IP, they've put Bioware to (if you allow the grossly oversimplification) paint lightsabers into WoW.

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
That's really not a fair comparison if you haven't played TOR. It's not at all "WoW + lightsabers."

I did specify it was a gross oversimplification. Still.

Hurbster wrote...
And to be fair, Mythic said out front that it would be pretty much all PvP with very little PvE content, so it was never going to appeal to as broad an audience as WoW. Wheras TOR has a massive IP but has to make loads of money to be profitable - from what I have seen (and this is NOT a criticism) TOR is patterning itself after WoW, which was pattened after EQ - ect ect. Am i going to give TOR a go, yes of course I am. Will WoW be there for me if I don't like it (a la RIFT), yup - you betcha.
After all, patterning itself on WoW hasn't done RIFT any harm has it ?

I played WAR for almost a year, and almost exclusively because of my fellow guildmates. It was originally conceived as a PvP affair, yet the experience ingame was closer to play merry go round killing NPCs. Actively looking for fights was usually met with the enemy flighting. And most new permanent content added after release was almost unequivocally PvE. Last but not least, the population drop from launch was much higher than what Mythic expected, if the amount of server closure is any indication.
RIFT, as far as I know, has already started to lose its novelty value, and its numbers are already dwindling.

Master Shiori wrote...
I'd suggest waiting until the game is out and playing it before we throw up comparisons like "WoW with
lightsabers". Because, right now, we don't have enough information to judge TOR.

I'm only speaking from the information I've found of it (see link upwards). More information would probably affect my opinion. But other than the fact that they're not forcing force users (pardon the redundancy) down our throats, most of the announcements have been either zero sum or negative towards my position of TOR (the best feature, the dynamic story exclusive to each character, has been sullied by that misleading, cheating, lying paraphrase mechanic).

Now that this small detour has been adressed: Wait and see how the DLC turns out will probably be our best politic now. But with Dragon Age already assigned to Studio C (this is my guess, based on the fact that ME 3 earned the right to the best teams and SW:tOR demands them due to being a massive undertaking) and with the knowledge that DLC gets even less resources, I honestly doubt it'll help Dragon Age 2 reach the standard of quality historical releases had placed upon Bioware.

Modifié par Xewaka, 18 juin 2011 - 12:47 .

[Persephone]

Friera wrote...

Im so happy! Happy!
I can´t wait for more DA2! Finally finishing Hawkes story. I guess Im a part of the "new" fan, who absolutly Im a total fan of the DA series.
I can see what is wrong with DA2 as well. But for me the companions, how the "questionsweel" worked and the "manus" of what they said was epic. I truly enjoyed the characters a lot more in DA2 than in Origin (with the exception of Alistar, whom I think is awesome)
What I am trying to say is that I really liked the companions a lot more, hwoever, the story, as well as the stupid reused map need some work. At least the dungeoun doesn´t wake frickin 3-4 hours to get trough, boring, as in DA:O. That would have killed me.

Shhhhhhhhhh, don't say it out loud! :happy:

But yes, I agree. I am just happy to see more DA Content. I'll be sad if it's another Witch Hunt. But I really doubt that. So....Bioware.......forget about interviews, talks to US ('cause we matter! ) and tell US the details!  So we can get angry/go mad with joy sooner!:P

[Vice-Admiral von Titsling]

Persephone wrote...

Vice-Admiral von Titsling wrote...

"But also there were a lot of fans of the original Dragon Age: Origins 
who weren't as happy with it. Maybe they were looking for more of the 
same, and it was different and innovative in ways they weren't 
expecting."

/crosses ME3 off the 'buy' list

So a non-ME3 related comment made you decide not to buy a game you might have enjoyed very much.

That's........mature. Yeah, so mature.

I was not aware that the person I quoted was head of just Dragon Age. Pretty sure he's one of the heads of the entire company.

And if the trend started with DA2 holds true for ME3, then I'm pretty sure I don't want to play it. Judging from the 'The players just can't grok our amazing innovations' comments, it seemingly will. I have better uses for $60.

Modifié par Vice-Admiral von Titsling, 18 juin 2011 - 12:49 .

[Recycled Human]

Well that's a bit of a stretch isn't it? He never called the innovations 'amazing'. Innovation in a market provide another way of viewing conventional norms to create conversation and evaluation about the topics being addressed which typically leads to questioning those norms of old and seeing what doesn't work and what does.

This guy isn't saying 'how dare you not love my awesome game', he's acknowledging that some of the core fans didn't like it and he's speculating that the reasons why are because they wanted Origins 2. Can you at least agree that Origins was different when compared to Dragon Age 2? Or is everyone so dead set on hating everything these guys say regardless of the context?

[Persephone]

Vice-Admiral von Titsling wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Vice-Admiral von Titsling wrote...

"But also there were a lot of fans of the original Dragon Age: Origins 
who weren't as happy with it. Maybe they were looking for more of the 
same, and it was different and innovative in ways they weren't 
expecting."

/crosses ME3 off the 'buy' list

So a non-ME3 related comment made you decide not to buy a game you might have enjoyed very much.

That's........mature. Yeah, so mature.

I was not aware that the person I quoted was head of just Dragon Age. Pretty sure he's one of the heads of the entire company.

And if the trend started with DA2 holds true for ME3, then I'm pretty sure I don't want to play it. Judging from the 'The players just can't grok our amazing innovations' comments, it seemingly will. I have better uses for $60.

Putting words into people's mouths? Really?

Both games are developed by different teams and ME3 seems to have more RPG elements than ME1. So yeah, I wouldn't miss it, no matter what anyone says. (Devs, fans.......)

[Cutlass Jack]

Recycled Human wrote...
Or is everyone so dead set on hating everything these guys say regardless of the context?

Pretty much this. Actions speak louder than words. Of course when the Devs say that, we complain that they aren't communicating enough.

[Vice-Admiral von Titsling]

Persephone wrote...

Vice-Admiral von Titsling wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Vice-Admiral von Titsling wrote...

"But also there were a lot of fans of the original Dragon Age: Origins 
who weren't as happy with it. Maybe they were looking for more of the 
same, and it was different and innovative in ways they weren't 
expecting."

/crosses ME3 off the 'buy' list

So a non-ME3 related comment made you decide not to buy a game you might have enjoyed very much.

That's........mature. Yeah, so mature.

I was not aware that the person I quoted was head of just Dragon Age. Pretty sure he's one of the heads of the entire company.

And if the trend started with DA2 holds true for ME3, then I'm pretty sure I don't want to play it. Judging from the 'The players just can't grok our amazing innovations' comments, it seemingly will. I have better uses for $60.

Putting words into people's mouths? Really?

Both games are developed by different teams and ME3 seems to have more RPG elements than ME1. So yeah, I wouldn't miss it, no matter what anyone says. (Devs, fans.......)

Maybe so, maybe no. I preordered ME2, but I'll be waiting a month or so after launch to buy ME3 if I buy it at all.