1248 réponses à ce sujet

[Atakuma]

alex90c wrote...

I like how they say a lot of people loved the game and yet the Dragon Age 2 forum ever since release has just been "feature x sucks" and "i hate da2" (on the whole) for practically three months straight.

The forum only represents a fraction of a percentage of the people who play their games.

[Pasquale1234]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

Amazon.com xbox 360 RPG's:
DA:O Ultimate #6
DA2 #9

Edit: DA:O has been outselling DA2 for at least 3 + weeks. I wasn't watching it daily before that but I'd guess it's been over a month now.

Interesting data, but very much subject to interpretation.  It is entirely possible that some of the "new fans" who enjoyed DA2 have since decided to purchase DAO, thinking they would enjoy it as well - thus boosting DAO sales.  I would imagine that BioWare would have some indication of these purchase patterns via owner registration.

I'm not surprised that they refer to DA2 as a commercial success - partly due to the pr machine, but also the fact that it took much less time and probably a much smaller budget to develop.  Even with the smaller sales volume, it may have been more profitable than DAO.

In the process of gaining these "new fans", they blew a lot of the goodwill of DAO fans.  Whether this will turn out to be a net gain or net loss remains to be seen...

[Guns]

-Origins combat
-Origins graphic
-Race/origin selection

If Da3 doesn't have all of these I won't be buying it.

[Glorfindel709]

Innovative.....

BAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA.... I didnt realize **** on a disc was considered innovation. Shows what I know as one of those backward minorities who wanted more of the same.

Seriously Bioware, why do you continue to alienate so many of your core fanbase with these interviews?

[Nerdage]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

@nerdage: Then Frank Gibeau and the docs should've made it clear by sayong so. Not just throwing the word around so carelessly. And honestly, I can handle change. Just not the complete 180 that DA2 pulled from Origins.

You think they're trying to slyly convince everyone that all the changes were original to DA2, hoping nobody will realize they've been used elsewhere? Not to mention they talked about the direct influences on some of the decisions during development (like the framed narrative from The Usual Suspects or wherever they said it was from).

Honestly, there are only two ways to be offended by their use of the word "innovations"; either you think they're denying anything was wrong with the game -which they aren't- or that they're claiming they came up with all these ideas on their own -also not what they're saying-, people just like being offended.

Modifié par nerdage, 17 juin 2011 - 05:20 .

[_Aine_]

Addai67 wrote...

That PR line makes me angrier every time I see it. Using Origins' popularity to try to skate by on much curtailed development time- a lot of critics call DA2 a cynical cash grab- is not "innovation." Stop trying to sell it as such, because the PRspeak is so blatant that it just makes things worse. Bioware, you're insulting our intelligence.  Unless you really think your fanbase has none.  I know the forums can cause doubt...

Same here, I missed this post as I was replying to your first one when you wrote this one.    But yes, exactly this.  It made me annoyed the first time i heard it, and now it just tipped me over the edge into anti-PR-anger.  

They had the same tacky, high gloss, mass-marketing sheen on most of their recent promo stuff too though just rife with catch-phrases and "hooks", so I think it is their new approach in general, or EAs slick influence. Still, it's creepy.  Very creepy.  

I *am* thinking that they would rather have a mass amount of 12-21 aged fans instead of any considerably older. The marketing approach says this at least.  DAO was not strictly that market, DA2 hoped to appease the older fans but target this new crowd they so desperately want for future growth.  That much seems clear.   I don't even disagree with it in general, but to change midstream was a risk.

Modifié par shantisands, 17 juin 2011 - 05:21 .

[tmp7704]

Seagloom wrote...

Money talks, Brock. Notice that Ray Muzyka says DA2 was very successful commercially. Unless disappointed DA2 fans avoid buying DA3 in droves, there is little reason for them to sweat what may appear as a minority.

Realistically, i don't think they're ever claim it's not the case until maybe the time comes to try and sell DA3, which means open season for slagging the prequel apparently.

In any case, if this launch was supposedly "one of the most polarising" then i don't think the part of playerbase which was critical about it appears as ignorable minority to them -- if the bulk of your buyers loves what you've done then it's not much of polarization to speak of.

[alex90c]

wastelander75 wrote...

www.destructoid.com/bioware-co-founder-jrpgs-suffer-from-lack-of-evolution--155782.phtml

Found it.

"My favorite thing, it's funny when you still see it, but the joke of
some of the dialogue systems where it asks, 'do you wanna do this or
this,' and you say no. 'Do you wanna do this or this?' No. 'Do you wanna
do this or this?' No. Lemme think -- you want me to say 'yes.' And
that, unfortunately, really characterized the JRPG."

It's quite funny when you implement it in your own games too.

[Glorfindel709]

Atakuma wrote...

They have never trashed DA:O. Pointing out what they believed were flaws, is not the same as trashing it.

Have you never read one of Mike Laidlaw's interviews? That's all he does...trashes Origins and the Origin fans who disliked DA2

[Atakuma]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

They have never trashed DA:O. Pointing out what they believed were flaws, is not the same as trashing it.

Have you never read one of Mike Laidlaw's interviews? That's all he does...trashes Origins and the Origin fans who disliked DA2

Yes I have, and no he doesn't.

[Nerevar-as]

Atakuma wrote...

alex90c wrote...

I like how they say a lot of people loved the game and yet the Dragon Age 2 forum ever since release has just been "feature x sucks" and "i hate da2" (on the whole) for practically three months straight.

The forum only represents a fraction of a percentage of the people who play their games.

It must be the same fraction in every forum too, as the opinion is quite similar in the different forums I´m in.

I finally uninstalled the game, combat got boring even in fights I won easily due to wave after wave of enemies, and after the first walkthrough I know story isn´t going to get better. Unless DLC is Lair of the Shadow Broker level, I´ll wait for Ultimate Edition bargain.

[upsettingshorts]

Nerevar-as wrote...

 I´ll wait for Ultimate Edition bargain.

So you dislike the game so much you'll... buy it again?

[-Semper-]

Atakuma wrote...

alex90c wrote...

I like how they say a lot of people loved the game and yet the Dragon Age 2 forum ever since release has just been "feature x sucks" and "i hate da2" (on the whole) for practically three months straight.

The forum only represents a fraction of a percentage of the people who play their games.

it's true that the ranting voices in the interweb are a tiny percentage of the whole base, but these are the opinions they recognize and the majority of them feel cheated. how can bioware ever be in a state to claim how the silent user at home feels about their game? how do they know that 90% of the buyers love their game?

[phoenixgoddess27]

shantisands wrote...


I *am* thinking that they would rather have a mass amount of 12-21 aged fans instead of any considerably older. The marketing approach says this at least.  DAO was not strictly that market, DA2 hoped to appease the older fans but target this new crowd they so desperately want for future growth.  That much seems clear.   I don't even disagree with it in general, but to change midstream was a risk.

Keep in mind, they're "proud" of the risks they're taking and they don't give a diddly what the fans have to say. Of course they're listening... when it's something they want to hear.
I personally think it's going to come back and bite them in the arse later. Unless running DA into the ground is what they want. In that case, they're doing an amazing job.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Because clearly, the re-used maps are precisely what he was referring to.

There was zero in DA2 that hasn't been either done before, or done better. The game was hardly innovative.

[Atakuma]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

alex90c wrote...

I like how they say a lot of people loved the game and yet the Dragon Age 2 forum ever since release has just been "feature x sucks" and "i hate da2" (on the whole) for practically three months straight.

The forum only represents a fraction of a percentage of the people who play their games.

It must be the same fraction in every forum too, as the opinion is quite similar in the different forums I´m in.

I finally uninstalled the game, combat got boring even in fights I won easily due to wave after wave of enemies, and after the first walkthrough I know story isn´t going to get better. Unless DLC is Lair of the Shadow Broker level, I´ll wait for Ultimate Edition bargain.

internet forums are a microcosm, still a very small percentage. I'm not claiming to know the ratio of opinions an everyone who played DA2, but I feel confident in saying that internet forums are hardly a good representation.

[Nerevar-as]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

 I´ll wait for Ultimate Edition bargain.

So you dislike the game so much you'll... buy it again?

I get this a lot. I usually wait to buy DLCs as the compiled edition is much cheaper than the separate DLCs, especially if I wait for a price drop. Of course, if DLC are in line with the core game (as Sebastian´s) I won´t get them at all.

[bEVEsthda]

People, you really need to learn PR-speak. Think about it for awhile: Muzyka has to protect EA, Bioware and the Dragon Age franchise, so he has to weigh his words very carefully.
Yes, he would gain a lot more credit and confidence from us by speaking differently, and obviously what he now says infuriate some of us. But this is how corporate heads in big business speak. Have to.

So we aren't really learning anything much.

You can take the talk about 'polarising' and 'listening to core fans' to heart, as that they know they goofed.

What they will do about it is another issue. My greatest fear is that they will decide that the only things they need to fix is the re-used dungeons/lack of locations and falling waves of enemies, because personally I didn't mind either so terribly much. I was much more infuriated by the combat animations, different choices -> same consequence, and the 'retarded' art direction re-design. That amounts to a lot of the atmosphere and ambience of the game, and I have absolute ZERO interest in playing a game like DA2, no matter how many locations they have.

A more positive spin would be that the 'innovations' they want to keep is the dialogue wheel and more responsive combat system. I dislike the wheel, but it appears we cannot get rid of this again. And the combat was sort of OK, if one doesn't consider the animations.

[Nerevar-as]

Atakuma wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

alex90c wrote...

I like how they say a lot of people loved the game and yet the Dragon Age 2 forum ever since release has just been "feature x sucks" and "i hate da2" (on the whole) for practically three months straight.

The forum only represents a fraction of a percentage of the people who play their games.

It must be the same fraction in every forum too, as the opinion is quite similar in the different forums I´m in.

I finally uninstalled the game, combat got boring even in fights I won easily due to wave after wave of enemies, and after the first walkthrough I know story isn´t going to get better. Unless DLC is Lair of the Shadow Broker level, I´ll wait for Ultimate Edition bargain.

internet forums are a microcosm, still a very small percentage. I'm not claiming to know the ratio of opinions an everyone who played DA2, but I feel confident in saying that internet forums are hardly a good representation.

I´m talking about different countries here. Maybe we are the same kind of people?

I wonder how they probe player´s opinions. I know a bit of statistics, and it´s true getting a representative sample is more than just looking at a forum.

[Wulfram]

Maybe they were looking for more of the same, and it was different and innovative in ways they weren't expecting.

If he'd just left out this sentence, it would be a pretty good interview.

[upsettingshorts]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Because clearly, the re-used maps are precisely what he was referring to.

There was zero in DA2 that hasn't been either done before, or done better. The game was hardly innovative.

The same could be said of Dragon Age: Origins.  In fact, its very lack of innovation is oft-cited as a major positive.  That is the implication behind any post championing its virtues as a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, for example.

It is safe to assume that by innovative EA/BioWare is referring to deliberate changes that are working as intended from DA:O.  These changes are polarizing.  Like others have pointed out, we will get to see which features BioWare believes were bad conceptually or were simply poorly implemented and need more work when we start hearing more about a potential sequel. 

No-one liked the re-used areas.  Some hated them with a passion, others simply didn't care that much.  But it was hardly a polarizing aspect of DA2.  If something is polarizing, some people have to really like it, or the term doesn't apply.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 juin 2011 - 05:40 .

[FieryDove]

Atakuma wrote...
Yes I have, and no he doesn't.

Well he did make me facepalm recently.

"It boils down to a game that challenges a fair amount of convention: it doesn't tell the usual fantasy story or present the usual fantasy combat, and in doing so it does run the risk of someone going, "Wow, this is just too different and I cannot handle it."

That is the company line now...People who didn't like it either cannot handle change or only wanted DAO2. I feel that's unfair.

Modifié par FieryDove, 17 juin 2011 - 05:39 .

[Atakuma]

Nerevar-as wrote...

I´m talking about different countries here. Maybe we are the same kind of people?

I wonder how they probe player´s opinions. I know a bit of statistics, and it´s true getting a representative sample is more than just looking at a forum.

I think things like the Constructive Criticism thread are the best they can do without sending out surveys.

[Jaldaric]

*snerk*

Innovation. That's pretty damned funny. And across the web in various gaming forums, its pretty consistent form of dislike for DA2. The majority rail on DA2, while a few praise their love for it. At this point The DA franchise is dead to me. Hoping ME3 doesn't suck giant monkey nuts.