1248 réponses à ce sujet

[Persephone]

Monica83 wrote...

Innovative... pffff....Dragon age 2 sucks....
But im happy we have company like Cd-Project that take care of their fans....

Then go to them if you hate Bioware so much.

[Redcoat]

phoenixgoddess27 wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...


I've already stated that I'll not be purchasing another product from Bioware (unless some unlikely circumstances lead to some unlikely events on the behalf of employees or the company as a whole), so I don't really have a stake in their listening to me. I come here to pass the time. Their not listening to me has nothing to do with my anger; their attitude does.
It's not impossible to be both angry and objective.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I've stated their attitude isn't helping.
"Then there's the Bioware/EA team members who rather insult us and quite
frankly, show that THEY too, are resistant to change(The whole
"lalalalala, not listening" route is a sign of that). "

But no side is really listening to anyone on the opposite sides. Each side's going in circles. I hate to say it, I really do, but I doubt their attitude will change. Which is why I suggested we just talk to the respectful Bioware team members. If I'm going to waste my breath, at least it will be with someone who showed equal respect.
I can't force you to listen whatsoever. I just suggested it may be easier if the angry(and non-angry, like KoP and Redcoat) core fans, the slit your throat DA2 fans(and the ones that are in fact respectful and not willing to really be snarky or prissy. I'm looking at you hoorayforicecream ), and the respectful Bioware team, can at least agree to be civilized long enough to talk about what we think on DA2 and DA3. It's pretty obvious that raising our blood pressures isn't helping and the insulting team members aren't going to listen any time soon. Might as well get along, right?

DA2 is just the sort of game that inspires extreme emotional reactions. I remember playing through the High Dragon battle, and when it flew away to its unreachable perch and summoned more waves of enemies to fight me, I exclaimed, "Who the HELL thought THIS would be entertaining?" Although I believe the actual phrase involved a fair deal more profanity.

The problem is separating knee-jerk emotional outbursts like "DA2 sucks, and the dev team broke into my house and wrecked up the place!" from genuine criticism. The former can be easily dismissed, but developers ignore the latter at their own peril, especially when similar issues are raised over and over.

Modifié par Redcoat, 18 juin 2011 - 05:17 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

[quote]In Exile wrote...
If you say, content can be off-screen or imaginary where the Warden does this, then I can just say you can imagine a nearly infinite amount of things in the yearly gaps that have Hawke fighing (and failing, with everything staying the same) to try and stop the mage templar conflict. [/quote]

You can't, because we know that no one knows what Hawke's position is in regards to the entire issue in Act 3. He has to declare it then. So what did he do? He couldn't have even failed, because it would still have exposed his position.

So was he trying to play secret agent all this time and doing obscure things that are of no consequence that if he fails, no one notices?


[quote]
Well, no. My character wasn't convinced. If you're going to say 'the game demands the character was convinced' then you can easily say Hawke was convinced by whatever convenient hook you want to justify action (or inaction) as I said above. [/quote]

And how was Hawke convinced that sitting on his ass for 3 years is a good idea?
At least DA:O tried to show us why we are fighting the blight, albeit poorly.

[quote]
It's Alistair's plan. And then you go out and do it. [/quote]

No, he suggests, the character agrees.

[quote]
But character agency is more than being an errand boy. Like I amended: the best examples being betraying Bhelen or Harrowmont early on or convincing the Werewolves at the end.

No one tells you to do these things. No one comes up with the idea. It's entirely an in-character decision that the game supports. [/quote]

Chancellor and Prince(ss) consort are also things you suggest on yor own. Suggesting to Irving that he goes to Orzammar is also something you come up with. Same with the boons regarding the Circle, Orzammar, of elves. you are the one who comes up with it.

Heck even sparing Loghain. Some people beg you for it. But no one really tells you. He doens't even expect it. You just do it. And before saying Riordan, you can accept his surrender before he speaks. It's his idea to make him a Warden.

[quote]
Hawke's (potential) mining business, trying to get closer to Gamlen with the death of a particular person, trying to have kids with his LI, hunting Tal-Vasoth/Qunari outside of Kirkwall, trying to write a memoire... [/quote]

His mining business is proving to be a disaster since Act 2, with the Orlesian selling his part because of that. Gamlen is not as important as something that threatened to destroy the entire city. And the Tal Vasoth are no where near the same scale of threat. 

So essentially Hawke is out there dealing with small fish while the entire city is collapsing under his feet and he's not noticing, until Orsino disturbs his meal with the speech 3 years later.

[quote]
No. With the templars, you don't get to say ''I'm abandoning the mages'' - Gregoire tells you in no uncertain terms that the Tower needs to be cleared out. If anything, saving the mages is more likely to be active. [/quote]

Then saving mages.
And since Gregoir is uncertain at the end (and doesn't trust Cullen), you can be the one to tell him to emprison them all.

[quote]
But let's say I agree with you. With as weak a standard as yours everything Hawke does is active. Siding with Meredith or Orsino is active. Helping one or the other is active. It doesn't matter if you're forced into it (you just granted above that even being 'poorly' convinced is good enough). [/quote]

Yes. But it's reactive and not proactive. Did DA:O had a lot of pro-active choices? Of course not. But they were there, I listed several above.

[quote]
Look: I don't care if you disagree with me that the Warden was passive. What I am arguing is that the design in terms of the choices and plot in DA:O and DA2 was the same. [/quote]

It's not that different, I know. Which again, that's why I am syaing "in game". I agreed with you from the very beginning that the overall design is mostly the same.

[quote]
Like I said: if you think this is active, then everything Hawke does is active. [/quote]

The examples I provided are different. First, to the amount of ways you can play the thing prior and during the Landsmeet.
Also, for some level of pro-activity. No one tells you to lie to Anora, and then backstab her. No one tells you to backstab Eamon. No one tells you to persuade Anora to be Prince Consort. No one tells you to make Anora and Alitair marry (you suggest it). No one tells you to marry Alistair. And no one tells you to impose yourself as chancellor.

[quote]
It has 2-3, depending on your class and gender. [/quote]

Alistair solo (Eamon chancellor). Anora solo. Anora + Alistar. Chancellor with either.
Then there is the question of the Ternir of Gwaren at the very end, which you could potentiall get. And no one suggests that to you, you can just ask it.


[quote]
Well, then Hawke certainly decides whether Starkhaven mages eat dirt for a year or are taken to the Circle to have some raped and executed, whether Fenryiel becomes an abomination that could threaten the world, whether a dalish clan continues to exist (or not), whether a magistrate's son has to go to jail or not... [/quote]

And this is not change to the status quo at all. Not only because the outcome is the same in some instances.
This is not at all like the "big" choices the Warden can make to set or help set other changes in motion.  
And if you want to consider these as a sign of Hawke being so active, DA:O has much much more choices than that, big and small.

The Dalish clan thing is poorly done anyways. It's not like Hawke decides to kill them all. They decide to suicide by Hawke if he doens't say the obscure that line that I thought meant something else.

[quote]
Not coming up with the plan is passive. Being forced to defend Denerim is passive. Not giving orders to the army is passive. Not even being able to decide how to take down the archdemon is passive. Letting the ruler of Ferelden address your army (the one you were made commander of) is passive. [/quote]

But you can excersize some command in Denerim. Not enough to convey the feeling that you are a real commander and yea, Awakening did it much better (which incidently, on its own, I like it much more than DA2).

For instance, you get to decide who commands the rear guard. It may not have a big impact, except if you decide to have the other Warden there (not sure why anyone would do this without metagaming). You get to decide which army types get to assist you and while they do not hugely alter the battlefield, they are still different. From potentially ranged units, to just melee, to defensive units, to potentially feral werewolves, to potentially AoE mages to counter mage specialists. You get to decide which type is appropriate for the situation. They alter your playstyle a bit.

Is it enough? No, but it's there.


[quote]
Not at all. Like in DA:O, you could be active because you were ordered to do so. [/quote]

The character is assumed to care. And there are reasons.
A Dwarf for instance would have to be pretty blind to think that the blight, once it takes over Ferelden, is going to leave Orzammar alone.

So there is a difference between you and the character.

And before saying what's the difference between Hawke and the Warden. Even if we assume that the design is the same when it comes to activity or passivity. At the end of the day, we still have a Warden who is more active (not always on a superficial level), and can be proactive in some instances. While Hawke is mostly superficially active, and I do not remember a single instance of him being pro-active, at least on a large scale which he is supposdely capable of doing.

[quote]
Of course not every game can have every possible choice - but the choices essentially fall along the same useless sphere. You decide last minute whether to do it or not, and you generally have the outcome foisted on you because you can't escape it. If you want to rise to power in DA:O, there's really only one way to do it unless you're a human noble. Just like in DA2. [/quote]

No, there are several. If you're a female, being mistress to Alistair as well. You can also become Teyrn of Gwaren, which is no small thing, regardless of origin. And you can be chancellor to Anora as well, but it doesn't provide the same amount of power as Alistair. You become paragon if Dwarf. You can be enchanter for mages iirc. The City Elf can also become something else. 
And no, you can escape that outcome completely. You can die for one.

So no, there are several options available. And you don't always just decide at the last minute (you can confirm it at the last minute), except the boon.

Does DA:O restrict you? Yes, but not as much as DA2.


[quote]
That's all execution - but it has nothing to do with only getting the one outcome or being told to stuff yourself if you want to rise to power. I agree with you that DA2 does it worse than DA:O, but DA2 doesn't do it differently. [/quote]

I know it doesn't do it that differently, except that it gives more options. What are we arguing about again?

[quote]
Yes. But the best example is.. mediocre high school football and the best run offence in the NFL trying to run an HB draw out of the I-formation. One of them is going to do it a lot better, but at the meta-level, they're basically scripted to be the same. [/quote]

Not something I disagree with. Indeed, that's what I usually say when people claim that DA2 was so different and "innovative". It wasn't, and imo DA:O did it better.

But I personally want something beyond DA:O, and DA2 was a step backwards for me.

When I say I want a pro-active protagonist, I most certainly do not point at DA:O and say "This is what I want". Of course DA:O did not have PC that was that pro-active and this is a criticism I've always brought up against it (as well as the post Landsmeet part). I do think however that, while they are not that different, DA:O did it better than DA2 in that regard. At least DA:O gave me the illusion of some pro-activity better. 

But ideally, I do want Bioware to get out of this shell. And all RPGs. Even TW2 is still mostly stuck in the same paradigm in that regards (it just make choices actually matter which is not generally done before).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 18 juin 2011 - 05:22 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

Innovative... pffff....Dragon age 2 sucks....
But im happy we have company like Cd-Project that take care of their fans....

...how?

So far all DLCs have been free and they already did two patches. Big ones. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 18 juin 2011 - 05:18 .

[Marionetten]

In Exile wrote...

By telling us how superior we are while streamlining the game for consoles. It's clear that lip-service is more important than results, at least for some people.

I suspect it has more to do with the fact that they manage to get patches out in a timely fashion while offering DLC for free. Meanwhile, BioWare is all lip service and no action. "Yeah, we really care" followed by releasing overpriced Hawke armor.

[Persephone]

Marionetten wrote...

In Exile wrote...

By telling us how superior we are while streamlining the game for consoles. It's clear that lip-service is more important than results, at least for some people.

I suspect it has more to do with the fact that they manage to get patches out in a timely fashion while offering DLC for free. Meanwhile, BioWare is all lip service and no action. "Yeah, we really care" followed by releasing overpriced Hawke armor.

Overpriced? Hardly. And no one was forced to buy that DLC. 

So three patches for all platforms is nothing? Another patch for DAO/DAA to fix Import issues in future installments etc. is nothing? To discuss the game, its pros & cons etc. for months is nothing? (CDPR didn't do that, they didn't even have their forums up, they were conveniently down while a TW2 dev was posting here....)

They might as well actually do nothing then.

I'm sick of the CDPR whitewash, their juvenile marketing and I'm getting sick of TW2 itself. (Something I never thought I'd feel)

[Bejos_]

Redcoat wrote...

phoenixgoddess27 wrote...

[...] no side is really listening to anyone on the opposite sides. Each side's going in circles. I hate to say it, I really do, but I doubt their attitude will change. Which is why I suggested we just talk to the respectful Bioware team members. If I'm going to waste my breath, at least it will be with someone who showed equal respect.
I can't force you to listen whatsoever. I just suggested it may be easier if the angry(and non-angry, like KoP and Redcoat) core fans, the slit your throat DA2 fans(and the ones that are in fact respectful and not willing to really be snarky or prissy. I'm looking at you hoorayforicecream ), and the respectful Bioware team, can at least agree to be civilized long enough to talk about what we think on DA2 and DA3. It's pretty obvious that raising our blood pressures isn't helping and the insulting team members aren't going to listen any time soon. Might as well get along, right?

DA2 is just the sort of game that inspires extreme emotional reactions. I remember playing through the High Dragon battle, and when it flew away to its unreachable perch and summoned more waves of enemies to fight me, I exclaimed, "Who the HELL thought THIS would be entertaining?" Although I believe the actual phrase involved a fair deal more profanity.

The problem is separating knee-jerk emotional outbursts like "DA2 sucks, and the dev team broke into my house and wrecked up the place!" from genuine criticism. The former can be easily dismissed, but developers ignore the latter at their own peril, especially when similar issues are raised over and over.

I understand what you're saying, phoenixgoddess. I get the impression you think I've attacked Stanley or John. I haven't. I think they're really nice guys who are in a really difficult position because of things beyond their control.
I've been fairly reasonably respectful towards other forumites, too, for the most part. I can count on one hand people to which I've been intentionally rude.

I agree, let's talk about the game and the environment in which it was created. However, I don't think people should have to censor their opinion of the game or the company just because it offends other forumites. What does my opinion of a game or the game's company have to do with other people's feelings? Nothing.
If people think I'm insinuating that they don't have good taste, or that they are somehow inferior to me because they like the game, that's (for the most part, with a few caveats) not the case.
People are entitled to like what they like, and to hate what they hate.

Now, I stumbled upon something interesting in the Off-Topic forum:

This is indicative of the audience at which DA2 is mostly aimed.

Modifié par Bejos_, 18 juin 2011 - 05:28 .

[phoenixgoddess27]

Redcoat wrote...

DA2 is just the sort of game that inspires extreme emotional reactions. I remember playing through the High Dragon battle, and when it flew away to its unreachable perch and summoned more waves of enemies to fight me, I exclaimed, "Who the HELL thought THIS would be entertaining?" Although I believe the actual phrase involved a fair deal more profanity.

The problem is separating knee-jerk emotional outbursts like "DA2 sucks, and the dev team broke into my house and wrecked up the place!" from genuine criticism. The former can be easily dismissed, but developers ignore the latter at their own peril, especially when similar issues are raised over and over.

I think it may just be DA in general. I believe that was my reaction to the Archdemon in DAO. Just as I was about to freeze it, it would fly away and send hordes after me (In all three playthroughs). I can't explain enough how much I despise the waves of enemies in DA2. I can say it over and over, again and I can't see how they thought, "Hmm, this would be an EXCELLENT addition!" *Makes waves fall from the heavens* But the point is, they already know. I'm not sure if they plan to decrease the amount and actually have them come from somewhere rather than the sky and thin air, but I believe we've stressed enough that we all hate it. Even quite a few of the DA2 fans hate it. (Don't get me started on the demon waves in the Forbidden Knowledge quest.)

Indeed it is. My first post in this thread was along the lines of each side comes to a compromise so we can actually make an effort to get our point across without insulting people along the way. However, we'll still have people from each side being prissy. It's utterly, mind hell(What can I say, I don't want to drop the f bomb) annoying. One side calls other sides childish, when all three sides are giving childish responses. It's the blame game all around and I think it's safe to say each side is sick to death of it. Bioware says they're listening, let's see if they really are. The only way to really do this is for each side to stop the poo slinging long enough to be respectful.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...
CDPR didn't do that, they didn't even have their forums up, they were conveniently down while a TW2 dev was posting here

So you're suggesting that they deliberately delayed a forum? Why?
Couldn't it possibly be due to genuine difficulties?

To paraphrase you. Conspiracy theories like that are beneath you Persephone.

[Persephone]

Bejos_ wrote...

People are entitled to like what they like, and to hate what they hate.

Now, I stumbled upon something interesting in the Off-Topic forum:

This is indicative of the audience at which DA2 is mostly aimed.

Just as one might (unjustly) say TW2 is mostly aimed at teenage boys who want to see boobies?:innocent:

[phoenixgoddess27]

Bejos_ wrote...



I understand what you're saying, phoenixgoddess. I get the impression you think I've attacked Stanley or John. I haven't. I think they're really nice guys who are in a really difficult position because of things beyond their control.
I've been fairly reasonably respectful towards other forumites, too, for the most part. I can count on one hand people to which I've been intentionally rude.

Oh, no! Hahaha, I didn't think you attacked either one of them. I quoted you because I wanted to come up with an alternative to them making it personal. For instance, they ignore us, we can simply ignore them and only talk to the team members who actually gives a diddly.

[Marionetten]

Persephone wrote...

Overpriced? Hardly. And no one was forced to buy that DLC.

Being forced to buy it or not is utterly irrelevant. The fact is that they opted to release this kind of DLC following the less than stellar release of Dragon Age II. This reflected badly upon BioWare as a whole. If you wish to encourage this kind of behavior then that is perfectly fine. Just try to realize the impact it has on BioWare as a whole.

Persephone wrote...

So three patches for all platforms is nothing? Another patch for DAO/DAA to fix Import issues in future installments etc. is nothing? To discuss the game, its pros & cons etc. for months is nothing? (CDPR didn't do that, they didn't even have their forums up, they were conveniently down while a TW2 dev was posting here....)

It took BioWare a month to get the first patch out. It took CD Projekt RED a week.

They also had fully functional forums over at gog.com during the rework. In fact, they still do. You act as if BioWare never reworked their forum structure.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Marionetten wrote...
They also had fully functional forums over at gog.com during the rework. In fact, they still do. You act as if BioWare never reworked their forum structure.

They also had Steam, which I am sure they checked.

The recent patch clearly shows they are lsitening to feedback. Sometimes on obscure things, like a carpet in a brothel. 

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...
CDPR didn't do that, they didn't even have their forums up, they were conveniently down while a TW2 dev was posting here

So you're suggesting that they deliberately delayed a forum? Why?
Couldn't it possibly be due to genuine difficulties?

To paraphrase you. Conspiracy theories like that are beneath you Persephone.

I am not suggesting anything of the kind. Merely stating what I saw going on. Why their forums/servers were down is irrelevant, it might be for any reason.

Either way, CDPR sure knows how to work out a marketing strategy. Sometimes subtly, sometimes not so subtly at all.

[Persephone]

Marionetten wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Overpriced? Hardly. And no one was forced to buy that DLC.

Being forced to buy it or not is utterly irrelevant. The fact is that they opted to release this kind of DLC following the less than stellar release of Dragon Age II. This reflected badly upon BioWare as a whole. If you wish to encourage this kind of behavior then that is perfectly fine. Just try to realize the impact it has on BioWare as a whole.

Persephone wrote...

So three patches for all platforms is nothing? Another patch for DAO/DAA to fix Import issues in future installments etc. is nothing? To discuss the game, its pros & cons etc. for months is nothing? (CDPR didn't do that, they didn't even have their forums up, they were conveniently down while a TW2 dev was posting here....)

It took BioWare a month to get the first patch out. It took CD Projekt RED a week.

They also had fully functional forums over at gog.com during the rework. In fact, they still do. You act as if BioWare never reworked their forum structure.

I did not buy that DLC. That's how I reacted to that release.

And multiplatform patches take much longer, that's a fact.

[Aeowyn]

Marionetten wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Overpriced? Hardly. And no one was forced to buy that DLC.

Being forced to buy it or not is utterly irrelevant. The fact is that they opted to release this kind of DLC following the less than stellar release of Dragon Age II. This reflected badly upon BioWare as a whole. If you wish to encourage this kind of behavior then that is perfectly fine. Just try to realize the impact it has on BioWare as a whole.

Persephone wrote...

So three patches for all platforms is nothing? Another patch for DAO/DAA to fix Import issues in future installments etc. is nothing? To discuss the game, its pros & cons etc. for months is nothing? (CDPR didn't do that, they didn't even have their forums up, they were conveniently down while a TW2 dev was posting here....)

It took BioWare a month to get the first patch out. It took CD Projekt RED a week.

They also had fully functional forums over at gog.com during the rework. In fact, they still do. You act as if BioWare never reworked their forum structure.

Okay first...What? Maybe they released that tiny DLC in preparation of a larger DLC they're working on? "This reflected badly upon BioWare as a whole". In your opinion.

Secondly, it took them a month because they were doing thorough testing to make sure that the patch sorted everything out. DA2 had a lot of bugs in it and I'm glad they're actually sorting them out.

[Gunderic]

Persephone wrote...

Marionetten wrote...

In Exile wrote...

By telling us how superior we are while streamlining the game for consoles. It's clear that lip-service is more important than results, at least for some people.

I suspect it has more to do with the fact that they manage to get patches out in a timely fashion while offering DLC for free. Meanwhile, BioWare is all lip service and no action. "Yeah, we really care" followed by releasing overpriced Hawke armor.

Overpriced? Hardly. And no one was forced to buy that DLC. 

So three patches for all platforms is nothing? Another patch for DAO/DAA to fix Import issues in future installments etc. is nothing? To discuss the game, its pros & cons etc. for months is nothing? (CDPR didn't do that, they didn't even have their forums up, they were conveniently down while a TW2 dev was posting here....)

They might as well actually do nothing then.

I'm sick of the CDPR whitewash, their juvenile marketing and I'm getting sick of TW2 itself. (Something I never thought I'd feel)

That's... very constructive/mature of you.

[Bejos_]

Persephone wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

People are entitled to like what they like, and to hate what they hate.

Now, I stumbled upon something interesting in the Off-Topic forum:

This is indicative of the audience at which DA2 is mostly aimed.

Just as one might (unjustly) say TW2 is mostly aimed at teenage boys who want to see boobies?:innocent:

That would be pretty accurate, actually
It's fine to pander. At least bother to throw in a good story and characters along the way, though. That's the least effort you can put into what is, after all, an RPG.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...
Either way, CDPR sure knows how to work out a marketing strategy. Sometimes subtly, sometimes not so subtly at all.

I don't argue that CDprojekt shows love, or sincere dedication. I personally say, they are smart. And currently, smarter than Bioware.

And knowing when to switch between subtle and unsubtle is a sign of intelligence.

[Persephone]

Gunderic wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Marionetten wrote...

In Exile wrote...

By telling us how superior we are while streamlining the game for consoles. It's clear that lip-service is more important than results, at least for some people.

I suspect it has more to do with the fact that they manage to get patches out in a timely fashion while offering DLC for free. Meanwhile, BioWare is all lip service and no action. "Yeah, we really care" followed by releasing overpriced Hawke armor.

Overpriced? Hardly. And no one was forced to buy that DLC. 

So three patches for all platforms is nothing? Another patch for DAO/DAA to fix Import issues in future installments etc. is nothing? To discuss the game, its pros & cons etc. for months is nothing? (CDPR didn't do that, they didn't even have their forums up, they were conveniently down while a TW2 dev was posting here....)

They might as well actually do nothing then.

I'm sick of the CDPR whitewash, their juvenile marketing and I'm getting sick of TW2 itself. (Something I never thought I'd feel)

That's... very constructive/mature of you.

I never claimed to be mature/constructive in that post. Merely stating my feelings, no different from the "Bioware betrayed me! Nya Nya!" outcries. Only I usually try not to post such things. Pardon my frustration.

[Bejos_]

Persephone wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...
CDPR didn't do that, they didn't even have their forums up, they were conveniently down while a TW2 dev was posting here

So you're suggesting that they deliberately delayed a forum? Why?
Couldn't it possibly be due to genuine difficulties?

To paraphrase you. Conspiracy theories like that are beneath you Persephone.

I am not suggesting anything of the kind. Merely stating what I saw going on. Why their forums/servers were down is irrelevant, it might be for any reason.

Either way, CDPR sure knows how to work out a marketing strategy. Sometimes subtly, sometimes not so subtly at all.

I'm with Persephone on this one. (Surprise.)

CDPR didn't have a TW2 forum because they knew this would funnel customers toward gog.com, their sister company, which would earn their parent company lots more money.
I don't buy the CDPR-as-indie-developer-angels propaganda.

However, at least CDPR don't actively put out bad products. They genuinely try to take their time and provide a rich gaming experience. Bioware has abandoned any such philosophy, opting instead for shallowness and immediate gratification via buttons. (See how much I tried not to use that phrase, there?)

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Either way, CDPR sure knows how to work out a marketing strategy. Sometimes subtly, sometimes not so subtly at all.

I don't argue that CDprojekt shows love, or sincere dedication. I personally say, they are smart. And currently, smarter than Bioware.

And knowing when to switch between subtle and unsubtle is a sign of intelligence.

So far, all they managed to do in my case is annoy me. Their games I love. Their behavior I despise for the most part.

[cmessaz]

Persephone wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

Innovative... pffff....Dragon age 2 sucks....
But im happy we have company like Cd-Project that take care of their fans....

Then go to them if you hate Bioware so much.

This is pretty much my feeling. Fine you like TW better than DA2...I really don't care. But...I disagree. However I don't troll their forums (if they have a social network)

[Marionetten]

The point is that anyone can promise you things. Fewer are those capable of actually honoring their promises. As a rule, I never pay attention to marketing. I pay attention to what developers and publishers actually do. When it comes to BioWare I'm still waiting for the European bazaar to materialize.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Either way, CDPR sure knows how to work out a marketing strategy. Sometimes subtly, sometimes not so subtly at all.

I don't argue that CDprojekt shows love, or sincere dedication. I personally say, they are smart. And currently, smarter than Bioware.

And knowing when to switch between subtle and unsubtle is a sign of intelligence.

So far, all they managed to do in my case is annoy me. Their games I love. Their behavior I despise for the most part.

As a consummer, I don't really care about any company's behaviour (unless I see it as an obstacle to making good games). I care about the product only, that's what I am paying for.

But I understand