1248 réponses à ce sujet

[Melca36]

cmessaz wrote...

I'm sorry but overpriced? I got a whole bunch of stuff for each class for 5 bucks...I can't get a value meal for that <.<

That is one thing I will NEVER understand.  <_<

$5.00 divided by 41 items comes to..........
0.12195122

If you round it off....it comes to slightly over 12cents an item.     


And I really enjoyed reading the codexes that came with them.

Modifié par Melca36, 18 juin 2011 - 08:47 .

[Bejos_]

Dormiglione wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

cmessaz: What an arse. Bumped to Elhanan status. Grow up.

There is no excuse for such a rude tone. If you dont like the opinion of other people then let it be and remain polite.

Except that whenever somebody (not just me) bothers to post criticism, they are accused of trolling, are attacked, et cetera.

It seems completely impossible for a lot of people who like DA2 to have a conversation about DA2 and the developers and the company without resorting to below-the-belts.

Ultimately, the solution would seem to be for me to leave, defend myself, or sit here and put up with what amounts to behaviour befitting a Biodrone. Are you biodrones? No. So why the hell are you acting like them whenever a criticism is posted?

I would like to sprinkle sugar and candy, but I have very little of it from DA2. What little I have, is not relevant to this thread. I do have lots of dust and grime to add to this thread, which is relevant to it.

So if I don't have anything nice to say about DA2 in this thread, I should just shut up, right?

You win, cmessaz, or whatever your name is. Have fun on this thread. Consider me droned out.

[cmessaz]

Gunderic wrote...

Persephone wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

The part where you expect people who have criticisms to go post it in that thread, but otherwise shut up in the rest of the threads.

May as well make a "DA2 praise" thread and not post anywhere else.

There are threads that are about neither DA2 hate nor praise that get derailed into DA2 hate threads. It is very, very common to have completely unrelated threads assaulted by torrents of irrelevant ****** by the same people who are determined to trap the entire boards in a downpour of negativism.

That is sadly true.

The problem isn't disliking DAII. I'm not 100% happy with it either. (Same as DAO)

But: If the people who hate the game expect me to respect their opinions/themselves, they better show me the same courtesy in return. Is that too much to ask?

Respect... how? I mean, the game's pretty bad: no amount of 'different opinions' could change that for me. I don't see how that would necessarily count as a direct insult toward someone, though.

This is fine, just respect the fact that we disagree. Thats all I've ever said. It's a bad game to YOU but a good one to ME. And that is just fine.

Modifié par cmessaz, 18 juin 2011 - 08:49 .

[Giggles_Manically]

There are people who like DA2 on these forums?

I thought it was made up of haters and Witcher fans with nothing better to do then create an ode to themselves and Geralt day after day.

Amazing that I missed that.

[Persephone]

Bejos_ wrote...

Dormiglione wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

cmessaz: What an arse. Bumped to Elhanan status. Grow up.

There is no excuse for such a rude tone. If you dont like the opinion of other people then let it be and remain polite.

Except that whenever somebody (not just me) bothers to post criticism, they are accused of trolling, are attacked, et cetera.

It seems completely impossible for a lot of people who like DA2 to have a conversation about DA2 and the developers and the company without resorting to below-the-belts.

Ultimately, the solution would seem to be for me to leave, defend myself, or sit here and put up with what amounts to behaviour befitting a Biodrone. Are you biodrones? No. So why the hell are you acting like them whenever a criticism is posted?

I would like to sprinkle sugar and candy, but I have very little of it from DA2. What little I have, is not relevant to this thread. I do have lots of dust and grime to add to this thread, which is relevant to it.

So if I don't have anything nice to say about DA2 in this thread, I should just shut up, right?

You win, cmessaz, or whatever your name is. Have fun on this thread. Consider me droned out.

Has it occurred to you that you might just criticize DAII in a polite way? Without insulting Bioware, without name calling, without mocking those few who like the game who are still posting here? Others who hate the game are managing that just fine and are on my Friends List.

[cmessaz]

Oh the "OH MAN I can't post my opinions" thing. Yep cuz that is exactly what I mean. Whatever.

[bEVEsthda]

Aeowyn wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Here, this is the sort of thing I'm talking about:

http://social.biowar...5/index/7579834

Threads get started with simple, innocuous questions and then the downer squad jumps in and starts flinging **** everywhere. It's nearly impossible to discuss anything here without it being derailed into a hate wankfest. It is very lovely.

And sadly this is the sort of thing that's chased off people who liked the game from these forums.

But surely that's a good thing, since people who liked DA2 are so infuriating?

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 18 juin 2011 - 08:52 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

ipgd wrote...

Here, this is the sort of thing I'm talking about:

http://social.biowar...5/index/7579834

Threads get started with simple, innocuous questions and then the downer squad jumps in and starts flinging **** everywhere. It's nearly impossible to discuss anything here without it being derailed into a hate wankfest. It is very lovely.

I actually thought you were going to quote me

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...
Has it occurred to you that you might just criticize DAII in a polite way? Without insulting Bioware, without name calling, without mocking those few who like the game who are still posting here? Others who hate the game are managing that just fine and are on my Friends List.

I am guessing I am not one of them

[Persephone]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Here, this is the sort of thing I'm talking about:

http://social.biowar...5/index/7579834

Threads get started with simple, innocuous questions and then the downer squad jumps in and starts flinging **** everywhere. It's nearly impossible to discuss anything here without it being derailed into a hate wankfest. It is very lovely.

And sadly this is the sort of thing that's chased off people who liked the game from these forums.

But surely that's a good thing, since people who liked DA2 are so infuriating?

We love you too, dear.

[Dormiglione]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

There are people who like DA2 on these forums?

I thought it was made up of haters and Witcher fans with nothing better to do then create an ode to themselves and Geralt day after day.

Amazing that I missed that.

Hater went a long time away from this forum. People that are still her on this forums are either people who like DA2 or people who dislike the direction that DA2 went, but still care about the franchise. You know, there is always hope.

Modifié par Dormiglione, 18 juin 2011 - 08:53 .

[In Exile]

[quote]KnightofPhoenix wrote..

I agree. I wish there was a game where the PC can rally everyone who follows him, and then come up with ideas of his own and listen to other ssuggestions. And then take a course of action.  [/quote]

The problem is setting it up, but I honestly think that with PC VO and a more defined protagonist, you can. This is why I was so excited about DA2, and why it dissapointed me so much.

[quote]And is that interesting to play? Not for me. [/quote]

I'm a big fan of protagonist who are generally decent and moral (i.e. will help if they can) but are fundamentally flawed in some respect, generally by being selfish, or prone to anger, or cowardly...

I don't like the impeccable heroes. But I do see your point.

[quote]And if that's the direction the DA team is going, I need to know so that I know not to buy their games. [/quote]

I think writing wise, Bioware will fall right back to where they were with DA:O, KoTOR and all the games before them, and try to create a relatively clear and irredeemable antagonist for the players.

[quote]At least you're forced to care about something that's important. [/quote]

That's just Bioware failing at writing political plots.

[quote]But Hawke's minor betrayals are not really to change the status quo, at least on a somewhat significant level. What the Warden can do can potentially change the statuys quo, even if it's a minor change (in the larger scheme of things). And on top of that, DA:o had choice that were small scope. Like helping the casteless woman with her child, where you have 3 options. [/quote]

The Warden's story is itself a greater scope, so I think that's more a consequence of the narrative. But I agree with you that in general, DA2 was effectively binary and had too many quests that could be resolved only one way.


[quote]
Not in the Landsmeet

And she says it would be preferrable in Eamon's estate but she doesn't really demand it. She prefers it.

In any case, there are other examples where the Warden does something ou of his own design. Few moments, but they were there. [/quote]

That's a fair point. I just think that these moments were few and far between, and I left DA:O with the feeling I was a stooge that was used by everyone (including the wonderful world of Morrigain's end-game blackmail).


[quote]
I'll definifetly agree that the mage origin was done poorly. [/quote]

I think any origin where you dont' want to be a Warden from the start (more or less) doesn't work. That's the failure of DA:O. They introduce you to a life that isn't being a hero... and then they tell you to be a hero, without actually creating any motivation for it. 

I stand by what I said when DA:O was released: every origin should have had the darkspawn overrun it.

[quote]Yes, both games force you to care aobuit something. But in DA2 it forces you not to care about the most important thing, and gives nothing in return. You can't invite Gamlen to live with you. You can't manage your business. You can't hunt Tal Vashoith. So what were we doing? [/quote]

You're right, and I forgot about how restrictive DA2 was. It's really difficult to thin of a Hawke that isn't an irresponsible wealthy playboy (or playgirl). I just think that this role-lock, essentially, is a staple of Biowae games.

Remember, in ME1, Shepard was supposed to be your character. This "3-rd person narrative" argument only came up when the fans started clamoring that Bioware failed to let them really determine their character.

[quote]Yea that was is reactive. Some are proactive, like werewolves, boons, chancellor / prince consort...etc.
Not many, but they were there. [/quote]

Yes, we're on the same page here.

[quote]In the game, the character is assumed to agree. Not because he is ordered to do it.
And again, it offers you chances, albeit small, to have your own ideas. [/quote]

Yes, but that's basically what we can say about DA2. I just think that what it comes down to is that DA:O's plot and set-up resonated more with you.

[quote]The Landsmeet is the main quest in the game or part of it. [/quote]

No, the main quest is defeating the archdemon. We could actually cut the whole Landsmeet and not change the plot significantly.

[quote]And the Warden does that, and more. The companions are not supposed to be in lieu of the main plot. [/quote]

No, the Warden can't affect anyone's beliefs aside from Leliana (a little) and Alistair (a lot more). Everyone else just likes you more.

[quote]No, because even assuming that the Warden doesn't come up with any ideas of his own, he is still acting. Not sitting on his hands and not doing anything for 3 years. [/quote]

If we're going to say that's acting, then Hawke having Sandal shine his shoes is 'acting' in the 3-year interrim. Beibng an active protagonist has to involve more than running errands.

[quote]Origins had them as well, and more. So again, DA:O provided more, even if the design is mostly the same. [/quote]

No, I agree with you here: I'm just saying that considering those "choices" is essentially reducing the world to meaninglessness. It's what let Bioware get away with saying that DA2 had choice in the first place. Choice is what TW2 did.

[quote]I didn't say Hawke was passive, except for the 3 years thing (if I implied otherwise, then I stand corrected). I usually say he was reactive when he is acting (and superficially at that). [/quote]

It wasn't in this thread. It was in another thread, where you mentioned Hawke might be the progatonist you loathe the most out of any game you've played.

[quote]I know, not claiming otherwise. But it gives you some space. But like I said, the post Landmseet phase did not convey the feeling that you were a commander well. [/quote]

You can tell I really disliked that part of the game, no? Lol. Sorry about that.

Anyway, I'm with you here, I was just really let down by DA:O in terms of being able to actually feel like a hero instead of an errand runner.

[quote]You can say that, and I'll say what did Hawke do instead? In the game. [/quote]

Nothing. But what I'm saying is that you can always come up with some post-hoc justification. That's not really good.

In a nutshell, I think letting Bioware get away with their design in games like DA:O let them push it to it's breaking point in DA2.

[quote]Yes, except I wouldn't pay for it. If they wanted to do that, then it should have been in the game.

Is it the kind I want? No. But he would have been more active yes.
[/quote]

I guess we differ here. It's like with the codex: I think they should show and not tell.

[ipgd]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I actually thought you were going to quote me

Oh, you do it too, sweetie. You have a lot more tact than Neppakyo, though, so despite your irritating Witcher references and circlejerk squad, I don't want to stab you in the neck quite as much.

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Has it occurred to you that you might just criticize DAII in a polite way? Without insulting Bioware, without name calling, without mocking those few who like the game who are still posting here? Others who hate the game are managing that just fine and are on my Friends List.

I am guessing I am not one of them

If you weren't, I'd have deleted you from said list.

Can't really ask KOP to give up being KOP over DAII though, eh? What kind of a minion would I be?

[Melca36]

I think its GREAT people love DA:2. I enjoyed it too. I never thought it was perfect. I never thought Origins was perfect.

I just never saw the need for people to trash Origins to get their point across. The game definitely has it flaws but people need to remember it did win a great many awards and it should be remembered for giving us a fantastic start to the franchise.

[Jon Jern_]

Whats the big deal about people pointing out "Well, it's just your opinion!"?
Of course it's my opinion, because I'M saying it. I don't need to start every post with, "Well, in my opinion..." because I'm saying it and no one else is.

/offtopic lmao I'm terrible at this

Modifié par Jon Jern , 18 juin 2011 - 09:00 .

[Melca36]

Dormiglione wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

There are people who like DA2 on these forums?

I thought it was made up of haters and Witcher fans with nothing better to do then create an ode to themselves and Geralt day after day.

Amazing that I missed that.

Hater went a long time away from this forum. People that are still her on this forums are either people who like DA2 or people who dislike the direction that DA2 went, but still care about the franchise. You know, there is always hope.

And the ones who gave the game a 7/8

The best part of DA:2 was the story (Act 2 was my fave)and the characters  and it did leave me wanting more.

[Persephone]

Melca36 wrote...

I think its GREAT people love DA:2. I enjoyed it too. I never thought it was perfect. I never thought Origins was perfect.

I just never saw the need for people to trash Origins to get their point across. The game definitely has it flaws but people need to remember it did win a great many awards and it should be remembered for giving us a fantastic start to the franchise.

Yes indeed.

I adore DAO. Watching my fave DAO LP recently (The newest by the fantastic MagickLorelai) made me remember just how much. Modded DAO is one of my all time favorite RPGs.....no, all time favorite games, to hell with genres!

[Bejos_]

In Exile wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...
Archaven, it's not as simple as that. The limited timeframe did let us see what Bioware prioritises within its games, though, and for that I'm thankful.
Button Pressing + Companion Quests + Sidequests are apparently the mainstay of a Bioware game.
No thanks. Not sticking around for what are, at core, Arcade Dating Sims (DA) and FPS Dating Sims (ME).
I would like at least some story with that cheese.

Wait, I'm really curious - what ever made you think these weren't the core of what Bioware designs? Just compare BGII and BGI, or BGII and IWDII.

It's precisely the sidequests, companion-oriented content de-emphasis on the encounter design with that defined Bioware relative to their competitors.

I've never played IWD2, so I can't comment on that title.

BG1 and 2 both had an overarching narrative. ME1 and DA:O were okay, but ME2 and DA2 really lacked in that aspect. They seem to lack in any kind of cohesiveness to their storytelling, and amount instead to vignettes which are tied together by very little; and the attempt to tie them together is half-hearted. This compounds the problem.

By button pressing, I mean that there is no strategy involved in DA or ME. And sure, you have companions in the other stories, but they don't substitute for the overarching narrative. Sidequests have always been numerous, but there was always at least an attempt to make them interesting, or to have them fit into the rest of the world. DA2 made no effort whatsoever with these sidequests. It devolved a world-expanding bonus into a mere WoW gameplay aspect.

I can understand how someone who just wants to "switch off" and play a game would enjoy DA2; I can even see that under the mess that it is, there is a story that could be really good; but it's not enough to have a decent premise if you don't do anything good with it. "Good premise but bad execution" is a phrase that applies to pretty much all aspects of DA2.

If "innovation" is going to mean "We have a great premise, and we're going to slap some things on top to badly execute it", then I want no part of it.

I'd like to continue this discussion, but some people would have me take my leave of this thread.

[cmessaz]

Well I have never really trashed Origins. It will always be special to me. I however have said that I like (A) about DA2 better than ( about DAO. That's not really trashing though.

[Dormiglione]

Melca36 wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

I'm sorry but overpriced? I got a whole bunch of stuff for each class for 5 bucks...I can't get a value meal for that <.<

That is one thing I will NEVER understand.  <_<

$5.00 divided by 41 items comes to..........
0.12195122

If you round it off....it comes to slightly over 12cents an item.     


And I really enjoyed reading the codexes that came with them.

I dont think that it is a question of the price. Its more a question if its worth for you personally to pay that price for that product. If you enjoy it, than you have done the right thing.
I dont mind to pay for story DLC, but i dont like to buy a Weapon/Armor/Appearance Pack. It doesnt make the game better for me.

Modifié par Dormiglione, 18 juin 2011 - 09:01 .

[cmessaz]

Dormiglione wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

I'm sorry but overpriced? I got a whole bunch of stuff for each class for 5 bucks...I can't get a value meal for that <.<

That is one thing I will NEVER understand.  <_<

$5.00 divided by 41 items comes to..........
0.12195122

If you round it off....it comes to slightly over 12cents an item.     


And I really enjoyed reading the codexes that came with them.

I dont think that it is a question of the price. Its more a question if its worth for you personally to pay that price for that product. If you enjoy it, than you have done the right think.
I dont mind to pay for story DLC, but i dont like to buy a Weapon/Armor/Appearance Pack. It doesnt make the game better for me.

For the record, I may disagree with you but I totally respect your opinion. This is what I mean about being civil and not being condescending to others who don't agree. You aren't all "Oh you liked that crap DLC? It sucked how could you!" Thank you for that. When I bought it I got called a "blind Bioware fangirl."

Modifié par cmessaz, 18 juin 2011 - 09:04 .

[Gunderic]

cmessaz wrote...

Gunderic wrote...

Persephone wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

The part where you expect people who have criticisms to go post it in that thread, but otherwise shut up in the rest of the threads.

May as well make a "DA2 praise" thread and not post anywhere else.

There are threads that are about neither DA2 hate nor praise that get derailed into DA2 hate threads. It is very, very common to have completely unrelated threads assaulted by torrents of irrelevant ****** by the same people who are determined to trap the entire boards in a downpour of negativism.

That is sadly true.

The problem isn't disliking DAII. I'm not 100% happy with it either. (Same as DAO)

But: If the people who hate the game expect me to respect their opinions/themselves, they better show me the same courtesy in return. Is that too much to ask?

Respect... how? I mean, the game's pretty bad: no amount of 'different opinions' could change that for me. I don't see how that would necessarily count as a direct insult toward someone, though.

This is fine, just respect the fact that we disagree. Thats all I've ever said. It's a bad game to YOU but a good one to ME. And that is just fine.

nah, fact imho. The game's just bad. End of line. 

Modifié par Gunderic, 18 juin 2011 - 09:04 .

[Dormiglione]

Melca36 wrote...

Dormiglione wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

There are people who like DA2 on these forums?

I thought it was made up of haters and Witcher fans with nothing better to do then create an ode to themselves and Geralt day after day.

Amazing that I missed that.

Hater went a long time away from this forum. People that are still her on this forums are either people who like DA2 or people who dislike the direction that DA2 went, but still care about the franchise. You know, there is always hope.

And the ones who gave the game a 7/8

The best part of DA:2 was the story (Act 2 was my fave)and the characters  and it did leave me wanting more.

DA2 had his good moments. I like Merril, Varric, Aveline and my mabari

The best part was the plot of the Arishok. I made only 4 playthrough, but i think its the only part where i never have skipped a single line of the dialog of the Arishok.

[Jon Jern_]

Gunderic wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Gunderic wrote...

Persephone wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

The part where you expect people who have criticisms to go post it in that thread, but otherwise shut up in the rest of the threads.

May as well make a "DA2 praise" thread and not post anywhere else.

There are threads that are about neither DA2 hate nor praise that get derailed into DA2 hate threads. It is very, very common to have completely unrelated threads assaulted by torrents of irrelevant ****** by the same people who are determined to trap the entire boards in a downpour of negativism.

That is sadly true.

The problem isn't disliking DAII. I'm not 100% happy with it either. (Same as DAO)

But: If the people who hate the game expect me to respect their opinions/themselves, they better show me the same courtesy in return. Is that too much to ask?

Respect... how? I mean, the game's pretty bad: no amount of 'different opinions' could change that for me. I don't see how that would necessarily count as a direct insult toward someone, though.

This is fine, just respect the fact that we disagree. Thats all I've ever said. It's a bad game to YOU but a good one to ME. And that is just fine.

nah, fact imho. The game's just bad. End of line. 

Stating something, that in your opinion, is a fact?
I think I'm going to explode. 

"Opinions", I hate that word.