I think we need to do some studying.Gunderic wrote...
nah, fact imho. The game's just bad. End of line.
Modifié par ipgd, 18 juin 2011 - 09:06 .
Muzyka: Dragon Age 2 "one of the most polarising launches we've had"
Débuté par
Brockololly
, juin 17 2011 03:55
#926
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:06
ipgd
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Retour en haut
#927
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:10
Melca36
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cmessaz wrote...
Well I have never really trashed Origins. It will always be special to me. I however have said that I like (A) about DA2 better than (about DAO. That's not really trashing though.
You haven't trashed it. But many people have and its sad to see that.
I understand its probably a defense mechanism.
I do think if they allowed more customization and bring back some things that people miss..........
( I MISS MY TRAPS MAKING!!
) they would have no problems bring back the fans.They need to take the elements that worked in DA:2 and bring back some of things from Origins they took out and that along with a fantastic story would bring back the fans.
Oh and the hubby still won't romance Merill. She creeps him out too much.
#928
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:13
Melca36
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Dormiglione wrote...
Melca36 wrote...
Dormiglione wrote...
Hater went a long time away from this forum. People that are still her on this forums are either people who like DA2 or people who dislike the direction that DA2 went, but still care about the franchise. You know, there is always hope.Giggles_Manically wrote...
There are people who like DA2 on these forums?
I thought it was made up of haters and Witcher fans with nothing better to do then create an ode to themselves and Geralt day after day.
Amazing that I missed that.
And the ones who gave the game a 7/8
The best part of DA:2 was the story (Act 2 was my fave)and the characters and it did leave me wanting more.
DA2 had his good moments. I like Merril, Varric, Aveline and my mabari
The best part was the plot of the Arishok. I made only 4 playthrough, but i think its the only part where i never have skipped a single line of the dialog of the Arishok.
LOVED the Arishock!! My favorite part of the whole game.
Orsino/Meredith were NOT developed enough. And Orsino was the worst of the two. Some backstory would have been nice.
Aveline and Varric are some faves as well.
![=]](https://lvlt.forum.bioware.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sideways.png)
#929
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:13
Redcoat
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I think we have to admit by this point that every single flaw in DA2 has been picked apart, analysed, dissected, examined under a microscope, and carefully tagged and recorded.
And now I'm getting images of Dragon Age 2 as a cadaver lying on a coroner's table, its innards exposed for all to see, its internal organs carefully removed and placed in trays. Then we follow a CSI-style necro cam through its body as the coroner explains the cause of death. "Victim died from a massive overdose of enemy waves and reused maps."
"I don't think this was an accidental OD," says the detective. "Somebody wanted Dragon Age 2 dead. I got a whole room full of suspects, each one with motive."
And now I'm getting images of Dragon Age 2 as a cadaver lying on a coroner's table, its innards exposed for all to see, its internal organs carefully removed and placed in trays. Then we follow a CSI-style necro cam through its body as the coroner explains the cause of death. "Victim died from a massive overdose of enemy waves and reused maps."
"I don't think this was an accidental OD," says the detective. "Somebody wanted Dragon Age 2 dead. I got a whole room full of suspects, each one with motive."
Modifié par Redcoat, 18 juin 2011 - 09:13 .
#930
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:13
Gunderic
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ipgd wrote...
I think we need to do some studying.Gunderic wrote...
nah, fact imho. The game's just bad. End of line.
Starting with... sarcasm? I was just kidding.
#931
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:14
KnightofPhoenix
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[quote]In Exile wrote...
The problem is setting it up, but I honestly think that with PC VO and a more defined protagonist, you can. This is why I was so excited about DA2, and why it dissapointed me so much. [/quote]
Yep, exactly the same with me. Add to taht the "determine your rise to power" (which never happened) and I was very excited.
Then got a slap on the face.
[quote]
I'm a big fan of protagonist who are generally decent and moral (i.e. will help if they can) but are fundamentally flawed in some respect, generally by being selfish, or prone to anger, or cowardly...
I don't like the impeccable heroes. But I do see your point.[/quote]
I hate imperccable heroes, hence why a rise to power appealed to me greatly.
Wanting to be pro-active does not mean you're pure. I could have bought into greed really, and Act 1 had that. But then you do nothing with the fortune you are told you have.
[quote]
I think writing wise, Bioware will fall right back to where they were with DA:O, KoTOR and all the games before them, and try to create a relatively clear and irredeemable antagonist for the players.[/quote]
And that's bad as well.
Sigh.
[quote]
That's a fair point. I just think that these moments were few and far between, and I left DA:O with the feeling I was a stooge that was used by everyone (including the wonderful world of Morrigain's end-game blackmail).[/quote]
I did the feel the same as well, but I also felt the game allowed me to get back at them in some ways.
But defnitely, the Bioware formula needs to change.
[quote]
I think any origin where you dont' want to be a Warden from the start (more or less) doesn't work. That's the failure of DA:O. They introduce you to a life that isn't being a hero... and then they tell you to be a hero, without actually creating any motivation for it. [/quote]
100% agreed.
But for me, the start of DA2 was as bad if not worse. It started in the middle of nowhere and we are told it's near Lothering, where we apparently lived.
[quote]
Remember, in ME1, Shepard was supposed to be your character. This "3-rd person narrative" argument only came up when the fans started clamoring that Bioware failed to let them really determine their character. [/quote]
Honestly, I felt ME1 had quite a bit that allowed you to determine the character. ME2 didn't.
And a lot of that came with options in how to handle missions.
Actually now that I think of it, Shepard was pro-active many times. No one told him to try and redeem Saren for instance.
[quote]
No, the main quest is defeating the archdemon. We could actually cut the whole Landsmeet and not change the plot significantly. [/quote]
Honestly, you can cut most of the allied quest and they wouldn't make a difference. This is Bioware sucking at political and military plots, as you said.
[quote]
No, the Warden can't affect anyone's beliefs aside from Leliana (a little) and Alistair (a lot more). Everyone else just likes you more. [/quote]
I think Sten a bit. He says he thought it impossible that he'd think a non-Qunari can be a Kadan (not to mention cookies). And his confrontation with you in Haven changes depending on that. Zevran changes a bit as well (and the cofrontation wit hthe Crows changes accordingly). Morrigan as well. Oghren. Even Shale. Though those three to a lesser degree.
Yes, it's due to them liking you more, but their perspective does change a bit. Nothing significant though and I'll grant that DA2 was more explicit. But I still felt that they couldnt' hate you.
But I personally would want a system that seperates respect and liking and make something other than the binary "friendship" vs "rivalry" (which I think is a step in the right direction btw, just taht it doidn't go far enough).
[quote]
Being an active protagonist has to involve more than running errands. [/quote]
Ideally yes, I agree.
[quote]
No, I agree with you here: I'm just saying that considering those "choices" is essentially reducing the world to meaninglessness. It's what let Bioware get away with saying that DA2 had choice in the first place. Choice is what TW2 did.[/quote]
I wouldnt' say they are not choices. But I will most certainly agree that TW2 did choices right and blew everyone else out of the water.
[quote]
It wasn't in this thread. It was in another thread, where you mentioned Hawke might be the progatonist you loathe the most out of any game you've played. [/quote]
Yes, he still is. Not because he is passive. But because the game is made in such a way that I have to play him as an irresponsible playboy. And because I find that a protagonist can only be as interesting as the world and environment he is projected in and the writing and feeling of DA2 ticked me off. So I couldn't find him interesting.
[quote]
You can tell I really disliked that part of the game, no? Lol. Sorry about that.
Anyway, I'm with you here, I was just really let down by DA:O in terms of being able to actually feel like a hero instead of an errand runner.[/quote]
Na no problem, I didn't like it either. It didn't break the game for me or anything.
But that's why I love Awakening really. It didn't change much to the original formula, but it conveyed the feeling of you being an Arl relatively well. I wish post-Landsmeet was more like that.
[quote]
In a nutshell, I think letting Bioware get away with their design in games like DA:O let them push it to it's breaking point in DA2.[/quote]
I am with you there.
They really need to break the formula. Which is what I thought they were doing with DA2, because I bought into the marketing.
[quote]
I guess we differ here. It's like with the codex: I think they should show and not tell.
[/quote]
I'd prefer that too definitely.
The problem is setting it up, but I honestly think that with PC VO and a more defined protagonist, you can. This is why I was so excited about DA2, and why it dissapointed me so much. [/quote]
Yep, exactly the same with me. Add to taht the "determine your rise to power" (which never happened) and I was very excited.
Then got a slap on the face.
[quote]
I'm a big fan of protagonist who are generally decent and moral (i.e. will help if they can) but are fundamentally flawed in some respect, generally by being selfish, or prone to anger, or cowardly...
I don't like the impeccable heroes. But I do see your point.[/quote]
I hate imperccable heroes, hence why a rise to power appealed to me greatly.
Wanting to be pro-active does not mean you're pure. I could have bought into greed really, and Act 1 had that. But then you do nothing with the fortune you are told you have.
[quote]
I think writing wise, Bioware will fall right back to where they were with DA:O, KoTOR and all the games before them, and try to create a relatively clear and irredeemable antagonist for the players.[/quote]
And that's bad as well.
Sigh.
[quote]
That's a fair point. I just think that these moments were few and far between, and I left DA:O with the feeling I was a stooge that was used by everyone (including the wonderful world of Morrigain's end-game blackmail).[/quote]
I did the feel the same as well, but I also felt the game allowed me to get back at them in some ways.
But defnitely, the Bioware formula needs to change.
[quote]
I think any origin where you dont' want to be a Warden from the start (more or less) doesn't work. That's the failure of DA:O. They introduce you to a life that isn't being a hero... and then they tell you to be a hero, without actually creating any motivation for it. [/quote]
100% agreed.
But for me, the start of DA2 was as bad if not worse. It started in the middle of nowhere and we are told it's near Lothering, where we apparently lived.
[quote]
Remember, in ME1, Shepard was supposed to be your character. This "3-rd person narrative" argument only came up when the fans started clamoring that Bioware failed to let them really determine their character. [/quote]
Honestly, I felt ME1 had quite a bit that allowed you to determine the character. ME2 didn't.
And a lot of that came with options in how to handle missions.
Actually now that I think of it, Shepard was pro-active many times. No one told him to try and redeem Saren for instance.
[quote]
No, the main quest is defeating the archdemon. We could actually cut the whole Landsmeet and not change the plot significantly. [/quote]
Honestly, you can cut most of the allied quest and they wouldn't make a difference. This is Bioware sucking at political and military plots, as you said.
[quote]
No, the Warden can't affect anyone's beliefs aside from Leliana (a little) and Alistair (a lot more). Everyone else just likes you more. [/quote]
I think Sten a bit. He says he thought it impossible that he'd think a non-Qunari can be a Kadan (not to mention cookies). And his confrontation with you in Haven changes depending on that. Zevran changes a bit as well (and the cofrontation wit hthe Crows changes accordingly). Morrigan as well. Oghren. Even Shale. Though those three to a lesser degree.
Yes, it's due to them liking you more, but their perspective does change a bit. Nothing significant though and I'll grant that DA2 was more explicit. But I still felt that they couldnt' hate you.
But I personally would want a system that seperates respect and liking and make something other than the binary "friendship" vs "rivalry" (which I think is a step in the right direction btw, just taht it doidn't go far enough).
[quote]
Being an active protagonist has to involve more than running errands. [/quote]
Ideally yes, I agree.
[quote]
No, I agree with you here: I'm just saying that considering those "choices" is essentially reducing the world to meaninglessness. It's what let Bioware get away with saying that DA2 had choice in the first place. Choice is what TW2 did.[/quote]
I wouldnt' say they are not choices. But I will most certainly agree that TW2 did choices right and blew everyone else out of the water.
[quote]
It wasn't in this thread. It was in another thread, where you mentioned Hawke might be the progatonist you loathe the most out of any game you've played. [/quote]
Yes, he still is. Not because he is passive. But because the game is made in such a way that I have to play him as an irresponsible playboy. And because I find that a protagonist can only be as interesting as the world and environment he is projected in and the writing and feeling of DA2 ticked me off. So I couldn't find him interesting.
[quote]
You can tell I really disliked that part of the game, no? Lol. Sorry about that.
Anyway, I'm with you here, I was just really let down by DA:O in terms of being able to actually feel like a hero instead of an errand runner.[/quote]
Na no problem, I didn't like it either. It didn't break the game for me or anything.
But that's why I love Awakening really. It didn't change much to the original formula, but it conveyed the feeling of you being an Arl relatively well. I wish post-Landsmeet was more like that.
[quote]
In a nutshell, I think letting Bioware get away with their design in games like DA:O let them push it to it's breaking point in DA2.[/quote]
I am with you there.
They really need to break the formula. Which is what I thought they were doing with DA2, because I bought into the marketing.
[quote]
I guess we differ here. It's like with the codex: I think they should show and not tell.
[/quote]
I'd prefer that too definitely.
Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 18 juin 2011 - 09:20 .
#932
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:15
Bejos_
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Persephone wrote...
Bejos_ wrote...
cmessaz: What an arse. Bumped to Elhanan status. Grow up.
You call people names and tell them to grow up?
Really?
Yes. If you continue to make little jibes at someone, directly or indirectly, when they clearly have no problem with you, you are, in my books, an arse.
By the way, in case I didn't make it clear, I don't have any enmity for you personally, Perse. I don't understand how you can hold the views that you do, and so I just can't take your opinion of some aspects of DA2 seriously, but that doesn't mean I don't value what you bring to the conversation.
Maybe I should use more smilies
;DWhat opinions of yours I could understand-- i.e. they make sense to me-- I can engage with and respect. The "I just can't take it seriously" isn't a personal attack. It's aimed at the statement, not at the person, and I maybe should have phrased it differently.
Text being what it is ... (Oh look. A DA2 "innovation" ;D)
Also, it's perfectly possible for me to talk about only DA2, Perse, but this isn't a thread about only DA2. This is a thread about the company and the game's developers, too. People should be allowed to comment on that. But apparently they aren't allowed to.
Anyway, out. Have fun chasing other people away, cmessaz. Your cutesy explanation-- "Oh! I'm sooo frustrated!"-- isn't an excuse for your behaviour.
#933
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:16
cmessaz
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LOL, I need to bookmark this for later use.ipgd wrote...
I think we need to do some studying.Gunderic wrote...
nah, fact imho. The game's just bad. End of line.
#934
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:16
KnightofPhoenix
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ipgd wrote...
Oh, you do it too, sweetie. You have a lot more tact than Neppakyo, though, so despite your irritating Witcher references and circlejerk squad, I don't want to stab you in the neck quite as much.KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I actually thought you were going to quote me
How much? How much??
But yea I know, I 'll try to keep it to a minimum, promise.
Persephone wrote...
If you weren't, I'd have deleted you from said list.
Can't really ask KOP to give up being KOP over DAII though, eh? What kind of a minion would I be?[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sideways.png[/smilie][smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]
Then you're still one of my favorite minions
#935
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:16
Master Shiori
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Bejos_ wrote...
cmessaz wrote...
Well imo people who ****** in everyone's cheerios every chance they get are the ones who need to "grow up". Did I call you an ass for calling my friend a 12 year old simply for liking a game you don't?Bejos_ wrote...
cmessaz: What an arse. Bumped to Elhanan status. Grow up.
You're taking that out of context, as was explained.
I'm here to talk about the game, its DLC, its developers, in whatever light it is I see them. Bar "OMG! They are saviours! Don't you dare say anything about them!" and "OMG! They are singlehandedly destroying the entire RPG genre!", all opinions are valid.
These are the DA2 forums.
These aren't the DA2 Praise forums.
Yes, these are DA2 forums. And yes, you ARE expected to discusss anything DA2 related in a manner that doesn't come across as insulting to others. And calling someone a 12 year old simply for liking a certain kind of game isn't considered respectful.
If a dozen people here can express their concerns about DA2 without flaming those who do like the game, then I don't understand why you seem incapable of doing the same.
#936
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:17
cmessaz
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And even after all this, I still don't think ANYONE in this thread is an ass.
#937
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:19
Gunderic
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Redcoat wrote...
I think we have to admit by this point that every single flaw in DA2 has been picked apart, analysed, dissected, examined under a microscope, and carefully tagged and recorded.
And now I'm getting images of Dragon Age 2 as a cadaver lying on a coroner's table, its innards exposed for all to see, its internal organs carefully removed and placed in trays. Then we follow a CSI-style necro cam through its body as the coroner explains the cause of death. "Victim died from a massive overdose of enemy waves and reused maps."
"I don't think this was an accidental OD," says the detective. "Somebody wanted Dragon Age 2 dead. I got a whole room full of suspects, each one with motive."
Massive head trauma suggests the victim died from inflated stupidity caused by new darkspawn art design and main character's sarcastic personality type. Knife wounds near the torso suggest an acute lack of... freedom or choice. The victim died struggling.
Modifié par Gunderic, 18 juin 2011 - 09:19 .
#938
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:19
Aeowyn
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Master Shiori wrote...
Bejos_ wrote...
cmessaz wrote...
Well imo people who ****** in everyone's cheerios every chance they get are the ones who need to "grow up". Did I call you an ass for calling my friend a 12 year old simply for liking a game you don't?Bejos_ wrote...
cmessaz: What an arse. Bumped to Elhanan status. Grow up.
You're taking that out of context, as was explained.
I'm here to talk about the game, its DLC, its developers, in whatever light it is I see them. Bar "OMG! They are saviours! Don't you dare say anything about them!" and "OMG! They are singlehandedly destroying the entire RPG genre!", all opinions are valid.
These are the DA2 forums.
These aren't the DA2 Praise forums.
Yes, these are DA2 forums. And yes, you ARE expected to discusss anything DA2 related in a manner that doesn't come across as insulting to others. And calling someone a 12 year old simply for liking a certain kind of game isn't considered respectful.
If a dozen people here can express their concerns about DA2 without flaming those who do like the game, then I don't understand why you seem incapable of doing the same.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
#939
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:31
Monica83
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I have to say it im very very very disappointed by bioware..After the DA2 pr talking lies they keep to lie calling innovative the game.. But per se the game don't have nothing innovative...
VO character and dialogue well: Mass Effect seriers
Skill tree: like mass effect series
the only innovation that this.... hemm.. fake sequel have is the tones...An useless one..
I don't know i want the old bioware back... I have the sensation that isn't going to happen anymore.. They try to sell me garbage presenting it like gold...
No sorry Ray i don't buy your team lies anymore..If you want i puchase another title of yours be professional.. And make a true sequel...
At the moment i have much more respect for the CD-Project guys that gived us a TRUE sequel..Innovative and a NICE one..
I feel sad for those people that say: Ohhhhh look what ray said.. is very refreshing to read.. now i can't wait the new dlc!
Or...: Look griffin statues i want that DLC...
Poor humanity
VO character and dialogue well: Mass Effect seriers
Skill tree: like mass effect series
the only innovation that this.... hemm.. fake sequel have is the tones...An useless one..
I don't know i want the old bioware back... I have the sensation that isn't going to happen anymore.. They try to sell me garbage presenting it like gold...
No sorry Ray i don't buy your team lies anymore..If you want i puchase another title of yours be professional.. And make a true sequel...
At the moment i have much more respect for the CD-Project guys that gived us a TRUE sequel..Innovative and a NICE one..
I feel sad for those people that say: Ohhhhh look what ray said.. is very refreshing to read.. now i can't wait the new dlc!
Or...: Look griffin statues i want that DLC...
Poor humanity
#940
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:32
Alex Kershaw
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"Critically it's been successful". No it hasn't. Its metacritic score is by far lower than any other Bioware RPG ever. That's what really annoys me - you have Laidlaw coming back addressing issues with the game, and you have the developers in this thread saying that they don't think the game is perfect, then a few days later you get another interview with a gaming magazine that puts them right back to step 1.
I find it infuriating that every single person who dislikes any single feature of Dragon Age II is simply handwaved away as somebody who cannot handle change, and simply wanted 'Dragon Age Origins #2 - The Return of the Blight'. It's denial - plain and simple. Your game was not as good as its predecessor, or any other game you have ever made. Metacritic makes that quite clear. It's nonsensical to think that talking to gaming publications and offending the overwhelming majority of your fanbase who clearly disagree with you is is a good marketing idea.
I don't expect anybody from Bioware to talk about Dragon Age II in a negative way. I do, however, expect them to respect the fans and it seems that pretty much every Dragon Age: Origins fan is getting continuously offended by these interviews.
You claim that DA2 was based on feedback from DAO, yet DA2 begun development a considerable number of months before DAO was even released. The fact that the game would be held in one city - one of the major problems - was already long decided.
Then you make the 'in denial' mistake of saying that any negative feedback = too different and any comments about ignorance of feedback = too much the same, when they're completely different things!
Can you please point out to me at which point a large number of fans gave feedback, telling you to reuse environments hundreds of times? What about the feedback from people asking you to change the names of items in the inventory to all the same name? I also must not have been around when people were suggesting that you should remove all plot from the sequel, and simply have a series of side quests instead. And of course, changing the target market to 14 years olds must also have come from feedback. No - these things are what people complain about not because it's too different, but because it's rubbish. Similarly - not listening to feedback isn't about resting on your laurels, but about putting back the unbroken things that you attempted to fix in the first place.
Then how do you explain the interviews? Are you even reading them? Can you honestly read the interview in this thread through the eyes of a player and come away thinking they're accepting DA2's problems? I'd love to believe that you're trying to fix things, but when the interviews by the people high up in the company completely contradict what you guys say on the forums, it seems unlikely. It's quite clear to me that Bioware are going to continue making 18-month games under the Dragon Age label to attempt, and fail, at reaching a wider audience.
This is what you don't understand. Saying that the game isn't perfect is obvious and means nothing. It's simply PR speak - of course you're going to claim that you'll take our feedback into account. That isn't what people are getting at.
'We accept that Dragon Age 2 was not perfect. We're going to strive to fix any problems that players have.' You start the line with that but the problem is what always comes next - something along the lines of 'A handful of fans have struggled to keep up with our innovation and the absolute 100% undisputed best way to move this franchise forward, but everybody else is clearly thrilled with how this game turned out, and we can't say how happy we are. We are going to continue to try to reach a wider audience in the future'. See what I did there? See how saying that the game is not perfect is completely irrelevant?
I find it infuriating that every single person who dislikes any single feature of Dragon Age II is simply handwaved away as somebody who cannot handle change, and simply wanted 'Dragon Age Origins #2 - The Return of the Blight'. It's denial - plain and simple. Your game was not as good as its predecessor, or any other game you have ever made. Metacritic makes that quite clear. It's nonsensical to think that talking to gaming publications and offending the overwhelming majority of your fanbase who clearly disagree with you is is a good marketing idea.
I don't expect anybody from Bioware to talk about Dragon Age II in a negative way. I do, however, expect them to respect the fans and it seems that pretty much every Dragon Age: Origins fan is getting continuously offended by these interviews.
Again, as you are unfamiliar with what we do and how, I will say that your version of how we do things is incorrect. Remember, please, that Dragon Age II was developed, in part, based on player feedback from Dragon Age Origins. You can see just how far we can go in listening to and acting on some of the feedback we receive. I don't see why people can accuse us of resting on our laurels, while at the same time chastising us for doing some things too differently.
You claim that DA2 was based on feedback from DAO, yet DA2 begun development a considerable number of months before DAO was even released. The fact that the game would be held in one city - one of the major problems - was already long decided.
Then you make the 'in denial' mistake of saying that any negative feedback = too different and any comments about ignorance of feedback = too much the same, when they're completely different things!
Can you please point out to me at which point a large number of fans gave feedback, telling you to reuse environments hundreds of times? What about the feedback from people asking you to change the names of items in the inventory to all the same name? I also must not have been around when people were suggesting that you should remove all plot from the sequel, and simply have a series of side quests instead. And of course, changing the target market to 14 years olds must also have come from feedback. No - these things are what people complain about not because it's too different, but because it's rubbish. Similarly - not listening to feedback isn't about resting on your laurels, but about putting back the unbroken things that you attempted to fix in the first place.
Yes, but your perception of sales doesn't affect what we know or what we do or what we're planning to do in the future. The way some people tell it, all we're doing is sitting on our laurels, claiming we're perfect, and throwing our drinks in the face of the players! Believe me, we are not. Quite the opposite, we take all the feedback into account, not just from you guys, but from players all over the world, via emails, Tweets, Facebook comments, blog comments, news articles, those comments, in person at conventions, and even internally from other developers.
Then how do you explain the interviews? Are you even reading them? Can you honestly read the interview in this thread through the eyes of a player and come away thinking they're accepting DA2's problems? I'd love to believe that you're trying to fix things, but when the interviews by the people high up in the company completely contradict what you guys say on the forums, it seems unlikely. It's quite clear to me that Bioware are going to continue making 18-month games under the Dragon Age label to attempt, and fail, at reaching a wider audience.
People wanted BioWare to acknowledge the game wasn't perfect.
This is what you don't understand. Saying that the game isn't perfect is obvious and means nothing. It's simply PR speak - of course you're going to claim that you'll take our feedback into account. That isn't what people are getting at.
'We accept that Dragon Age 2 was not perfect. We're going to strive to fix any problems that players have.' You start the line with that but the problem is what always comes next - something along the lines of 'A handful of fans have struggled to keep up with our innovation and the absolute 100% undisputed best way to move this franchise forward, but everybody else is clearly thrilled with how this game turned out, and we can't say how happy we are. We are going to continue to try to reach a wider audience in the future'. See what I did there? See how saying that the game is not perfect is completely irrelevant?
#941
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:33
mesmerizedish
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How on earth are DAII's skill trees like Mass Effect's? o.O
#942
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:36
Cutlass Jack
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Master Shiori wrote...
If a dozen people here can express their concerns about DA2 without flaming those who do like the game, then I don't understand why you seem incapable of doing the same.
Well to be completely honest, people get flamed far, far more for saying they like the game, than the reverse. Its a pretty hostile place to be a fan.
#943
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:36
KnightofPhoenix
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ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
How on earth are DAII's skill trees like Mass Effect's? o.O
I personally thought they were better than DA:O's, at least when it comes to specializations.
But maybe she is referring to talents (as in persuasion, poison, traps...etc)? Which dont' really exist in DA2 and ME2 (had some of it in ME1).
#944
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:38
element eater
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ishmael is that a quote from citizen erased in ur sig?
Modifié par element eater, 18 juin 2011 - 09:39 .
#945
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:38
cmessaz
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Yes this is basically what I've been saying. Which somehow gets twisted into "I can't post my opinion". Which is totally not what I mean.Cutlass Jack wrote...
Master Shiori wrote...
If a dozen people here can express their concerns about DA2 without flaming those who do like the game, then I don't understand why you seem incapable of doing the same.
Well to be completely honest, people get flamed far, far more for saying they like the game, than the reverse. Its a pretty hostile place to be a fan.
Anyway, it is good to see that there are others who feel like I do. And to those who don't but have been respectful, thanks for making this thread interesting.
#946
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:48
Alex Kershaw
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Archaven wrote...
I wonder why you guys are arguing amongst each other.. Just accept it that DA2 isn't great because it was rushed. Plain and simple.
I don't accept that the only problem was that it was rushed. I don't see how the game could ever work in just one city, so it's a problem from the ground up.
I've gone back to playing Origins. When I reached Lothering, there were around 10 optional side quests you could do in the village if you desired. None of them required extra locations or caves or dungeons or waves of spiders or mercenaries or qunari. They created a village with a chantry, a pub and some outskirts and THEN placed quests inside these areas.
Since there's Kirkwall is the only place in the game, they had to do it the wrong way around. They wrote quests, and then had to create areas for those quests. This made it end up with the hideous issue of reused resources. Every single side quests required you to go into a cave and kill hundreds of enemies, which was just ridiculous. If the game wasn't set in one city, they could have done it like Origins where they create the areas, then write quests for that area.
So while the game was rushed, the Kirkwall idea could simply never work. There's a reason why it's the norm for games to travel to new locations, or you simply run out of space for quests and such. The above is just one disadvantage of a single city - there's loads of them.
Modifié par Alex Kershaw, 18 juin 2011 - 09:49 .
#947
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:49
ipgd
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"Critically" means "by critics". Trolls bombing metacritic with 1s are not critics.Alex Kershaw wrote...
"Critically it's been successful". No it hasn't. Its metacritic score is by far lower than any other Bioware RPG ever.
#948
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:49
MorrigansLove
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No-one says you can't have an opinion. I just really dislike it when people have to diss origins just to get their opinion across.
Modifié par MorrigansLove, 18 juin 2011 - 09:54 .
#949
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:53
Zanallen
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MorrigansLove wrote...
No-one says you can't have an opinion. I just really dislike when people have to diss origins just to get their opinion across.
And I really dislike it when people diss DA2 while using Origins as an example of how it should be when Origins also suffered from the same issue.
#950
Posté 18 juin 2011 - 09:53
KnightofPhoenix
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MorrigansLove wrote...
No-one says you can't have an opinion. I just really dislike when people have to diss origins just to get their opinion across.
They can criticize Origins to get their point across. Just like one can bring other examples (praise or criticize them) to get their point accross. No biggie.
