1248 réponses à ce sujet

[Xewaka]

ipgd wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...
"Critically it's been successful". No it hasn't. Its metacritic score is by far lower than any other Bioware RPG ever.

"Critically" means "by critics". Trolls bombing metacritic with 1s are not critics.

Even among proffesional critics, the only Bioware game which ranks lower is Sonic Chronicles. Going by proffesional critic review, the game is good, but is nowhere near the expected quality of a Bioware game.

Modifié par Xewaka, 18 juin 2011 - 09:58 .

[MorrigansLove]

Zanallen wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

No-one says you can't have an opinion. I just really dislike when people have to diss origins just to get their opinion across.

And I really dislike it when people diss DA2 while using Origins as an example of how it should be when Origins also suffered from the same issue.

Give me an example of when this happened please? I'm merely curious.

And, to be honest, why didn't they rectify these problems in DA2?

[cmessaz]

They DID rectify some of MY problems, while keeping others. They also added a few new ones. It's all opinion here, they can't please everyone. Your "problems" are not everyones. And neither are mine.

And...it happens all the time. I don't go in general discussion threads much and even I've seen that.

[tmp7704]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I certainly understand that folks are sore over some of what we did with Dragon Age II, but I think a lot of the rage is based on confirmation bias. You're already dead set against liking DA2, and feel you've been betrayed by BioWare, of course you're going to take what we say in the most negative way possible. That's why we're having his "argument" in the first place. (..)

Remember how the forum was when DA2 was first released? Flame posts everywhere and we largely said nothing. Why? Because people weren't ready to listen and be reasonable yet. All they could focus on were the differences between DAO and DA2 and how much they didn't like that.

Actually when DA2 was first released, considerable part of what the people were focusing on were the shortcomings of DA2 itself, ones which had nothing to do with DAO. You know, the things doe-eyed developers after a while publically declared as stuff that "we never thought would be such a problem."

So if all you can remember from back then is people being displeased that the two games were just different, then i'm sorry, but if there's the "confirmation bias" to speak of here, it strongly appears to be on both sides of this "argument". In the sense that as much as some people might've been determined to dislike DA2, the developers appear to be determined to regard all critique of their game as just that, pre-determined dislike for their product that has nothing to do with the quality of the product itself (which conveniently shifts the focus away from that potential issue of quality)

And this is a factor in why we're having this argument indeed -- because people get annoyed when their stance is being continually downplayed and twisted into a "they are criticizing our new game because it's not a sequel to our previous game that they wanted." When it's frequently not a case.

Modifié par tmp7704, 18 juin 2011 - 10:09 .

[Zanallen]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

No-one says you can't have an opinion. I just really dislike when people have to diss origins just to get their opinion across.

And I really dislike it when people diss DA2 while using Origins as an example of how it should be when Origins also suffered from the same issue.

Give me an example of when this happened please? I'm merely curious.

And, to be honest, why didn't they rectify these problems in DA2?

The DA2 is JRPG thread from about a week ago is a good example. Really any thread that complains about the size of the two-handed swords in DA2 compared to Origins when modders have shown them to be the same size. People complaining about glowing weapons and armor. I'm sure there is quite a bit more that I am forgetting.

[MorrigansLove]

cmessaz wrote...

They DID rectify some of MY problems, while keeping others. They also added a few new ones. It's all opinion here, they can't please everyone. Your "problems" are not everyones. And neither are mine.

And...it happens all the time. I don't go in general discussion threads much and even I've seen that.

siiiiiiiiiiiiigh, I meant problems likes Re-used areas? You know, problems that aren't opinionated...

[Master Shiori]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

If a dozen people here can express their concerns about DA2 without flaming those who do like the game, then I don't understand why you seem incapable of doing the same.

Well to be completely honest, people get flamed far, far more for saying they like the game, than the reverse. Its a pretty hostile place to be a fan.

Oh, I can't argue with that. But flaming anyone for any reason isn't and shouldn't be considered an acceptable form of behavior.

But it is true. The one place where a fan of DA2 can expect to be flamed for liking the game, despite it's flaws, is the official DA2 forums..
Not sure if I find that to be sad or funny. Probably a bit of both.

[Thor Rand Al]

Master Shiori wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

If a dozen people here can express their concerns about DA2 without flaming those who do like the game, then I don't understand why you seem incapable of doing the same.

Well to be completely honest, people get flamed far, far more for saying they like the game, than the reverse. Its a pretty hostile place to be a fan.

Oh, I can't argue with that. But flaming anyone for any reason isn't and shouldn't be considered an acceptable form of behavior.

But it is true. The one place where a fan of DA2 can expect to be flamed for liking the game, despite it's flaws, is the official DA2 forums..
Not sure if I find that to be sad or funny. Probably a bit of both.

I find it really really sad cause tech it's not fair for some that do like it n would love to talk to others that like it without getting flamed, a place to post pic's, to talk about certain areas of the game, quests, etc etc lol.  I use to go in just to see if there was any help on a quest until I saw all the bs n ya, not my cup of tea tyvm lol.  So I have to say  that its sad

[Aeowyn]

tmp7704 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I certainly understand that folks are sore over some of what we did with Dragon Age II, but I think a lot of the rage is based on confirmation bias. You're already dead set against liking DA2, and feel you've been betrayed by BioWare, of course you're going to take what we say in the most negative way possible. That's why we're having his "argument" in the first place. (..)

Remember how the forum was when DA2 was first released? Flame posts everywhere and we largely said nothing. Why? Because people weren't ready to listen and be reasonable yet. All they could focus on were the differences between DAO and DA2 and how much they didn't like that.

Actually when DA2 was first released, considerable part of what the people were focusing on were the shortcomings of DA2 itself, ones which had nothing to do with DAO. You know, the things doe-eyed developers after a while publically declared as stuff that "we never thought would be such a problem."

Funny, all I remember seeing months before the game was released was people complaining about how DA2 was not going to be about the Warden, how their favourite characters weren't going to be in it etc. That continued for months, and when you told them to not buy it, it turns out they'd pre-ordered it ages ago.

The Alistair Gush Thread is a really good example of this.

[cmessaz]

Aeowyn wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I certainly understand that folks are sore over some of what we did with Dragon Age II, but I think a lot of the rage is based on confirmation bias. You're already dead set against liking DA2, and feel you've been betrayed by BioWare, of course you're going to take what we say in the most negative way possible. That's why we're having his "argument" in the first place. (..)

Remember how the forum was when DA2 was first released? Flame posts everywhere and we largely said nothing. Why? Because people weren't ready to listen and be reasonable yet. All they could focus on were the differences between DAO and DA2 and how much they didn't like that.

Actually when DA2 was first released, considerable part of what the people were focusing on were the shortcomings of DA2 itself, ones which had nothing to do with DAO. You know, the things doe-eyed developers after a while publically declared as stuff that "we never thought would be such a problem."

Funny, all I remember seeing months before the game was released was people complaining about how DA2 was not going to be about the Warden, how their favourite characters weren't going to be in it etc. That continued for months, and when you told them to not buy it, it turns out they'd pre-ordered it ages ago.

The Alistair Gush Thread is a really good example of this.

I remember this too, and am probably....maybe...guilty of doing this myself almost up to release.

[cmessaz]

MorrigansLove wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

They DID rectify some of MY problems, while keeping others. They also added a few new ones. It's all opinion here, they can't please everyone. Your "problems" are not everyones. And neither are mine.

And...it happens all the time. I don't go in general discussion threads much and even I've seen that.

siiiiiiiiiiiiigh, I meant problems likes Re-used areas? You know, problems that aren't opinionated...

Oh yes but my issue is they HAVE admited this particular issue. Thankfully. But those aren't the ones most people complain about.

Modifié par cmessaz, 18 juin 2011 - 10:27 .

[Aaleel]

cmessaz wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

They DID rectify some of MY problems, while keeping others. They also added a few new ones. It's all opinion here, they can't please everyone. Your "problems" are not everyones. And neither are mine.

And...it happens all the time. I don't go in general discussion threads much and even I've seen that.

siiiiiiiiiiiiigh, I meant problems likes Re-used areas? You know, problems that aren't opinionated...

Oh yes but my issue is they HAVE admited this particular issue. Thankfully. But those aren't the ones most people complain about.

Yes they are when it all boils down.  Reused areas, enemy waves, choices not mattering, and Hawke not feeling like their character are the things the majority of people complain about. 

[Thor Rand Al]

cmessaz wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I certainly understand that folks are sore over some of what we did with Dragon Age II, but I think a lot of the rage is based on confirmation bias. You're already dead set against liking DA2, and feel you've been betrayed by BioWare, of course you're going to take what we say in the most negative way possible. That's why we're having his "argument" in the first place. (..)

Remember how the forum was when DA2 was first released? Flame posts everywhere and we largely said nothing. Why? Because people weren't ready to listen and be reasonable yet. All they could focus on were the differences between DAO and DA2 and how much they didn't like that.

Actually when DA2 was first released, considerable part of what the people were focusing on were the shortcomings of DA2 itself, ones which had nothing to do with DAO. You know, the things doe-eyed developers after a while publically declared as stuff that "we never thought would be such a problem."

Funny, all I remember seeing months before the game was released was people complaining about how DA2 was not going to be about the Warden, how their favourite characters weren't going to be in it etc. That continued for months, and when you told them to not buy it, it turns out they'd pre-ordered it ages ago.

The Alistair Gush Thread is a really good example of this.

I remember this too, and am probably....maybe...guilty of doing this myself almost up to release.

*Raises hand* Owns up to this myself, just didn't want to see my Warden, n Alistair go bye bye
Lmao but I've enjoyed making a new character with Hawke, n I've come to like other companions.  Always loved Anders but Isy was never a fan of mine in DAO, prob cause her um wantin to borrow Alistair for her ship lmao.  But my male Hawke absolutely adores her.  Much better with aggressive Hawke .  Point is I got over my tiff n have really come to enjoy DA2.  It's not perfect but I do enjoy playing.

[addiction21]

Monica83 wrote...

I have to say it im very very very disappointed by bioware..After the DA2 pr talking lies they keep to lie calling innovative the game.. But per se the game don't have nothing innovative...

VO character and dialogue well: Mass Effect seriers

What lies want to elaborate? Also they never demed the VO as a innovation so try again.

Monica83 wrote...

Skill tree: like mass effect series

Further evidence you have no idea what your talking about.

Monica83 wrote...

the only innovation that this.... hemm.. fake sequel have is the tones...An useless one..
I don't know i want the old bioware back... I have the sensation that isn't going to happen anymore.. They try to sell me garbage presenting it like gold...

Worthless melodrama. The same melodrama you've been spoting for 9 months now and I will just move on.

Monica83 wrote...

No sorry Ray i don't buy your team lies anymore..If you want i puchase another title of yours be professional.. And make a true sequel...

At the moment i have much more respect for the CD-Project guys that gived us a TRUE sequel..Innovative and a NICE one

What lies? Show me some evidence.

Oh yes and a true sequel. What is a true sequel Monica83... oh wait TW2.  Total overhauls of the combat, questing, dialogue, inventory and the alchemy and OMG quick time events....
Ya quick time events thats never been done to death... see what I did there? So very innovative.

Monica83 wrote...

I feel sad for those people that say: Ohhhhh look what ray said.. is very refreshing to read.. now i can't wait the new dlc!

Or...: Look griffin statues i want that DLC...

Poor humanity

And here is your typical insult directed at anyone that dares like something you dont like.

[tmp7704]

Aeowyn wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Remember how the forum was when DA2 was first released?

Actually when DA2 was first released (..)

Funny, all I remember seeing months before the game was released was people complaining about how DA2 was not going to be about the Warden, how their favourite characters weren't going to be in it etc.

I'd dare a guess that's because we're talking about two distinctly different periods.

Before the game was released it'd be obviously hard for people to criticize its own qualities (or lack thereof) wouldn't it?

[cmessaz]

Aaleel wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

They DID rectify some of MY problems, while keeping others. They also added a few new ones. It's all opinion here, they can't please everyone. Your "problems" are not everyones. And neither are mine.

And...it happens all the time. I don't go in general discussion threads much and even I've seen that.

siiiiiiiiiiiiigh, I meant problems likes Re-used areas? You know, problems that aren't opinionated...

Oh yes but my issue is they HAVE admited this particular issue. Thankfully. But those aren't the ones most people complain about.

Yes they are when it all boils down.  Reused areas, enemy waves, choices not mattering, and Hawke not feeling like their character are the things the majority of people complain about. 

Which is opinion, as Hawke DID feel like mine. The only part of that I agree with is the reused areas

But in all seriousness, and I really am not trying to be rude or anything but I am really curious. I see you have Shepperd as an avatar. Do you feel like S/He is "your" character? I really am just wondering please don't take that wrong.

[Aeowyn]

tmp7704 wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Remember how the forum was when DA2 was first released?

Actually when DA2 was first released (..)

Funny, all I remember seeing months before the game was released was people complaining about how DA2 was not going to be about the Warden, how their favourite characters weren't going to be in it etc.

I'd dare a guess that's because we're talking about two distinctly different periods.

Before the game was released it'd be obviously hard for people to criticize its own qualities (or lack thereof) wouldn't it?

Well part of the point was that the majority of those people who complained still complained when the game was released. Which of course, might be because to them the game sucked, but to me it just felt they didn't give the game a proper chance because they were determined to hate it.

[Aaleel]

cmessaz wrote...
Which is opinion, as Hawke DID feel like mine. The only part of that I agree with is the reused areas

But in all seriousness, and I really am not trying to be rude or anything but I am really curious. I see you have Shepperd as an avatar. Do you feel like S/He is "your" character? I really am just wondering please don't take that wrong.

I just like this picture.  Mass Effect is kind of like the Witcher to me.  He/she had a story you're coming into so I didn't expect for it to be my character.  Shepard is a War hero before you even meet him or her, and Geralt is a Witcher who had a story and lost his memory.

DA:O on the other hand was pretty much a clean slate, you had your Origin, and you went out from there pretty much making your epilogue with your actions every second you played.  Whereas Hawke's story could be summed up with one of two Varric dialogues and a pre-rendered cutcene.

But my main problem with and excuse me for copying and pasteing from another thread.  

I didn't feel like Hawke was an engaging or captivating character. A
lot of it was due to me being told large chunks of Hawke's life instead
of being allowed to play through it.

I would have liked to have
had my family developed more, maybe have started the game in Lothering
instead of the exaggerated Varric story. More family related quests,
etc. The family came across to me as nothing but tools to try and make
the game darker by taking them away.

Then been able to play
through the first year in Kirkwall. Actually do missions that grew more
important as I made my name, ultimately doing something that put my
name all over the Kirkwall underworld.

Setting the first Act in
that time period would have let me play through when word came that the
Blight was over. I could have talked with my family about staying in
Kirkwall vs going back to our life in Lothering, and getting Bethany
away from all the Templars.

I Just wanted to play through more of the important parts of my story.

[Melca36]

I still believe that spoiler thread that game out a couple of days before the official release should have been **deleted**

That thread gave people preconceived notions.

[cmessaz]

Aaleel wrote...

cmessaz wrote...
Which is opinion, as Hawke DID feel like mine. The only part of that I agree with is the reused areas

But in all seriousness, and I really am not trying to be rude or anything but I am really curious. I see you have Shepperd as an avatar. Do you feel like S/He is "your" character? I really am just wondering please don't take that wrong.

I just like this picture.  Mass Effect is kind of like the Witcher to me.  He/she had a story you're coming into so I didn't expect for it to be my character.  Shepard is a War hero before you even meet him or her, and Geralt is a Witcher who had a story and lost his memory.

DA:O on the other hand was pretty much a clean slate, you had your Origin, and you went out from there pretty much making your epilogue with your actions every second you played.  Whereas Hawke's story could be summed up with one of two Varric dialogues and a pre-rendered cutcene.

But my main problem with and excuse me for copying and pasteing from another thread.  

I didn't feel like Hawke was an engaging or captivating character. A
lot of it was due to me being told large chunks of Hawke's life instead
of being allowed to play through it.

I would have liked to have
had my family developed more, maybe have started the game in Lothering
instead of the exaggerated Varric story. More family related quests,
etc. The family came across to me as nothing but tools to try and make
the game darker by taking them away.

Then been able to play
through the first year in Kirkwall. Actually do missions that grew more
important as I made my name, ultimately doing something that put my
name all over the Kirkwall underworld.

Setting the first Act in
that time period would have let me play through when word came that the
Blight was over. I could have talked with my family about staying in
Kirkwall vs going back to our life in Lothering, and getting Bethany
away from all the Templars.

I Just wanted to play through more of the important parts of my story.

Ok, thanks for not taking that wrong I can respect that.

[cmessaz]

Melca36 wrote...

I still believe that spoiler thread that game out a couple of days before the official release should have been **deleted**

That thread gave people preconceived notions.

Yeah..I guess I'm going to have to agree with this. Even though I may or may not be guilty of visiting it on occassion.

Modifié par cmessaz, 18 juin 2011 - 10:52 .

[Dormiglione]

Aaleel wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

They DID rectify some of MY problems, while keeping others. They also added a few new ones. It's all opinion here, they can't please everyone. Your "problems" are not everyones. And neither are mine.

And...it happens all the time. I don't go in general discussion threads much and even I've seen that.

siiiiiiiiiiiiigh, I meant problems likes Re-used areas? You know, problems that aren't opinionated...

Oh yes but my issue is they HAVE admited this particular issue. Thankfully. But those aren't the ones most people complain about.

Yes they are when it all boils down.  Reused areas, enemy waves, choices not mattering, and Hawke not feeling like their character are the things the majority of people complain about. 

^^ This are exactly the issues why i dislike DA2.

[Monica83]

addiction21 wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

I have to say it im very very very disappointed by bioware..After the DA2 pr talking lies they keep to lie calling innovative the game.. But per se the game don't have nothing innovative...

VO character and dialogue well: Mass Effect seriers

What lies want to elaborate? Also they never demed the VO as a innovation so try again.

Monica83 wrote...

Skill tree: like mass effect series

Further evidence you have no idea what your talking about.

Monica83 wrote...

the only innovation that this.... hemm.. fake sequel have is the tones...An useless one..
I don't know i want the old bioware back... I have the sensation that isn't going to happen anymore.. They try to sell me garbage presenting it like gold...

Worthless melodrama. The same melodrama you've been spoting for 9 months now and I will just move on.

Monica83 wrote...

No sorry Ray i don't buy your team lies anymore..If you want i puchase another title of yours be professional.. And make a true sequel...

At the moment i have much more respect for the CD-Project guys that gived us a TRUE sequel..Innovative and a NICE one

What lies? Show me some evidence.

Oh yes and a true sequel. What is a true sequel Monica83... oh wait TW2.  Total overhauls of the combat, questing, dialogue, inventory and the alchemy and OMG quick time events....
Ya quick time events thats never been done to death... see what I did there? So very innovative.

Monica83 wrote...

I feel sad for those people that say: Ohhhhh look what ray said.. is very refreshing to read.. now i can't wait the new dlc!

Or...: Look griffin statues i want that DLC...

Poor humanity

And here is your typical insult directed at anyone that dares like something you dont like.

Oh yes mhhhh mass effect 2 honestly a better game.. You can insult me i don't mind...

I don't like to feed drones:police:

About the lies:
Also best answers by the devs like: We don't rush games....

ooooh sure... XD

Modifié par Monica83, 18 juin 2011 - 10:54 .

[cmessaz]

@Monica - I really don't see an insult anywhere but in your post...

[Morroian]

Monica83 wrote...

I have to say it im very very very disappointed by bioware..After the DA2 pr talking lies they keep to lie calling innovative the game.. But per se the game don't have nothing innovative...

Sure it did, just cause you didn't like it doesn't mean they didn't introduce some innovations which have been well and truly documented by now. It is possible to dislike something which is innovative.

Monica83 wrote...

VO character and dialogue well: Mass Effect seriers
Skill tree: like mass effect series.

Utter ****e, you spout stuff like this it makes you like like you haven't played either.

Monica83 wrote...

the only innovation that this.... hemm.. fake sequel have is the tones...An useless one..
I don't know i want the old bioware back... I have the sensation that isn't going to happen anymore.. They try to sell me garbage presenting it like gold...

PR presenting something in the best light, wow whodathunkit.

Monica83 wrote...

No sorry Ray i don't buy your team lies anymore..If you want i puchase another title of yours be professional.. And make a true sequel...

Funny how you accuse them of lying when you could be accused of the same thing in this post.

Monica83 wrote...

At the moment i have much more respect for the CD-Project guys that gived us a TRUE sequel..Innovative and a NICE one..

You mean TW2 which had exactly the same things you claim to dislike DA2 for. VO, paraphrasing, fixed protagonist (even more fixed than DA2)...............