1248 réponses à ce sujet

[Persephone]

Jaldaric wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Jaldaric wrote...

Ah ha! Thats what Bioware is trying to get across in all these interviews. Our game is perfect. The fans are the problem!

Again, so NOT what he is saying. YEESH! Bloody hyperbole!

You fail to see humour and throw around (which has been used waaaaaay to much around here by EVERYBODY!, mods and BW employee's especially) the word hyperbole.

Humor? Sure.

The same old "Waves! Nya Nya!" and "Repeated enviroments! Nya Nya!" beats hyperbole in in the overused department anyday. Esp. since Bioware has said more than once that they are aware of this & will do their best to improve/fix these issues. (Those DLC are probably just a start in that direction after Patch 1.03)

[Korusus]

Meaningless PR coached nonsense vocabulary aside, this is the most forthcoming I've seen one of the Dr's...ever.  That's an important point I think.

But it's time to put up or shutup with this mythical DLC I think.  If I see one more interview or forum post from the Dr's or EA or Laidlaw acknowledging the game's shortcomings in the form of defending it's "innovations" from the core fanbase's conservatism, I might retch.

Modifié par Korusus, 17 juin 2011 - 05:56 .

[Nerdage]

Jaldaric wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Jaldaric wrote...

Ah ha! Thats what Bioware is trying to get across in all these interviews. Our game is perfect. The fans are the problem!

Again, so NOT what he is saying. YEESH! Bloody hyperbole!

You fail to see humour and throw around (which has been used waaaaaay to much around here by EVERYBODY!, mods and BW employee's especially) the word hyperbole.

If you were being serious then hyperbole would be the right word, and to be fair there was no reason to think you weren't being serious, it's only what some other posters have already said.

Modifié par nerdage, 17 juin 2011 - 05:58 .

[Fortlowe]

Guns wrote...

What angers me the most is this is all time wasted that could've been spent on make, you know, a good game.

Time is precisely the issue, in my opinion. Not enough was spent making this game, I think. Considering not only the proven precident that it takes at least 24 months to develop a AAA game, but that DA2 was meant to take the franchise into a vastly different direction, well the shortened dev cycle for DA2 is to blame for the subpar showing of DA2, if you ask me.

[Nerevar-as]

Persephone wrote...

Humor? Sure.

The same old "Waves! Nya Nya!" and "Repeated enviroments! Nya Nya!" beats hyperbole in in the overused department anyday. Esp. since Bioware has said more than once that they are aware of this & will do their best to improve/fix these issues. (Those DLC are probably just a start in that direction after Patch 1.03)

besides removing the knockdown lock, 1.03 didn´t improve much in my game. They seem to be trying to fix the wave system, which I doubt can be done at all.

[Persephone]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Humor? Sure.

The same old "Waves! Nya Nya!" and "Repeated enviroments! Nya Nya!" beats hyperbole in in the overused department anyday. Esp. since Bioware has said more than once that they are aware of this & will do their best to improve/fix these issues. (Those DLC are probably just a start in that direction after Patch 1.03)

besides removing the knockdown lock, 1.03 didn´t improve much in my game. They seem to be trying to fix the wave system, which I doubt can be done at all.

Patch 1.03 is one of the most extensive Bioware has ever done. Reading the patch notes makes that very clear.

I'm quite sure it can be done, it'll just take time and some serious effort.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Brockololly wrote...

I know they're not going to bash their own game but how DA2 keeps getting propped up with bloated PR speak calling it "innovative" without going into details how they think it was innovative is baffling. Maybe on the concept side, but not so much on the execution side.

They cut the boring parts out and pushed the story closer to the player.

Excessive inventory, silent PC, ancient conversation tropes...  That's all gone.  Their innovations were the solutions they presented to those problems with the genre.  Were they really innovations, as in "ZOMG brand new!" not really no.  But they were improvements to how BioWare used to do things.

The execution could have used some work, but I've always expected that's something that would be addressed in the next games.  In DA3/4/5, they won't have to come up with the solutions.  DAO to DA2 required time and resource investments to make these changes to the formula...  games going forward can simply refine the formula and concentrate on execution.

[DragonRageGT]

Persephone wrote...

Patch 1.03 is one of the most extensive Bioware has ever done. Reading the patch notes makes that very clear.

I'm quite sure it can be done, it'll just take time and some serious effort.

All that in a 23MB file? I don't know... I really don't know....

[Aaleel]

Nothing I'm really hearing lately gives me any confidence that DA3 is going to be something I would want to buy. I guess "innovation" and "innovative" are the new words of the day.

But the more they say they thought it was innovative, and that going forward with all their products they're going to appeal to large ranges of gamers. I just feel that from here on out it's going to more of the same.

I doubt they'll scale back many of the changes at all. I don't have a good feeling about what the compromises between the two games will be.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Most extensive patch Bioware has ever done for DA 2 or any of their games? And yes, I'm seriously asking this.

[Persephone]

RageGT wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Patch 1.03 is one of the most extensive Bioware has ever done. Reading the patch notes makes that very clear.

I'm quite sure it can be done, it'll just take time and some serious effort.

All that in a 23MB file? I don't know... I really don't know....

The size of a patch is not a big indication of its quality or content, you know?

[_Aine_]

Jaldaric wrote...

Ah ha! Thats what Bioware is trying to get across in all these interviews. Our game is perfect. The fans are the problem!

Not all fans, just the very small number (according to them) who disliked some changes.

and now, in general.... (not to you Jaldaric)

This isn't a matter of hyperbole for most people with constructive criticism, it is a matter of preference.   
eg.
I prefer to get what I pay for. 
I prefer to be able to speak my mind without someone jumping in guns blazing to defend Bioware by saying everyone else is just whining. We are entitled to publically share our opinions, with diplomacy and tact, hopefully.
I prefer to be able to pick and chose what I personally think are the games strengths and weaknesses (for me!) without superimposing my opinion as everyone's truth or the ultimate truth or having others do that same to me.
I prefer to not have people gloss over the truth with marketing excuses or subtle finger pointing.  
I prefer to be able to state my dislike about an interview without being called a whiner for having an opinion that someone else considers inaccurate. 

There we have it.  MY preferences. Yours can be different and likely are, it is cool.  That doesn't make one side whiners and the others not. Whining about the whiners just makes people look like hypocrites, or at best elitists who consider their own behaviour so far superior to others that common decency only applies when the treatment has them at the end of it.   

[Persephone]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

Most extensive patch Bioware has ever done for DA 2 or any of their games? And yes, I'm seriously asking this.

One OF the most extensive, not THE most extensive.

Yay, what I'm saying is twisted too. Joy!

[Guns]

Fortlowe wrote...

Guns wrote...

What angers me the most is this is all time wasted that could've been spent on make, you know, a good game.

Time is precisely the issue, in my opinion. Not enough was spent making this game, I think. Considering not only the proven precident that it takes at least 24 months to develop a AAA game, but that DA2 was meant to take the franchise into a vastly different direction, well the shortened dev cycle for DA2 is to blame for the subpar showing of DA2, if you ask me.

The art style and combat change, character customization restriction, and retconning is what bugged me initially so the gameplay is just the icing on the cake. Hell, I was dogging the game and fighting everyone on the forum before the game even came out.

Modifié par Guns, 17 juin 2011 - 06:13 .

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Persephone wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

Most extensive patch Bioware has ever done for DA 2 or any of their games? And yes, I'm seriously asking this.

One OF the most extensive, not THE most extensive.

Yay, what I'm saying is twisted too. Joy!

Jeez, relax. I was just curious because I didn't hear the details of the patch.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

-Semper- wrote...

it's true that the ranting voices in the interweb are a tiny percentage of the whole base, but these are the opinions they recognize and the majority of them feel cheated. how can bioware ever be in a state to claim how the silent user at home feels about their game? how do they know that 90% of the buyers love their game?

Their games gather statistics.  They can compare the number of people who bought DAO to the number of people who finished DAO.  If the percentage of people who bought DA2 and finished DA2 is higher than the DAO completion percentage, then they know they're doing something right with DA2.

[Jaldaric]

Thanks for that Shanti! Pretty good description there.

And, NWN1 patches were more extensive than the DA2 patch.

[AbounI]

from this article:

We take the feedback of all of our fans, our core fans particularly,
really seriously. We're committed to trying to address that feedback

I prefer th Frank Gibeau ( ina another Eurogamer paper):

EA: we lost some fans...

But to be honest, we lost some fans as
well. They were not pleased with some of the innovations and things we'd
done. We understand that and we're listening." EA will take on fan
feedback for Dragon Age 3, Gibeau promised.

"As we think about
where we take the franchise next, we're going to take that into
consideration and really engage them," he said

At least, him, he's not speaking with foolish words....

[Korusus]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

 In DA3/4/5, they won't have to come up with the solutions.  DAO to DA2 required time and resource investments to make these changes to the formula...  games going forward can simply refine the formula and concentrate on execution.

What makes you think they won't do the same thing to DA2 that they did to DA:O?  Not that I agree with anything you said.  Most decidedly not.  BioWare hasn't simply "refined the formula" and "concentrate(d) on execution" since Baldur's Gate 2.  In fact, they've more commonly made drastic changes to their series, some successful (ME2) some not so successful (DA2).

If anything I think DA3 will be not like DA:O, but also not much like DA2 either.  Small things like the dialogue wheel may stay the same.  But if DA3 has a tactical camera, rare wave mechanics, actual killing blow animations, no framed narrative, and a wide and varied number of level designs: by george that's like 70% of DA2 out the window.

[ItsTheTruth]

Maybe they were looking for more of the  same, and it was different and innovative in ways they weren't  expecting.

Or maybe it just sucked.

[Persephone]

shantisands wrote...

Jaldaric wrote...

Ah ha! Thats what Bioware is trying to get across in all these interviews. Our game is perfect. The fans are the problem!

Not all fans, just the very small number (according to them) who disliked some changes.

and now, in general.... (not to you Jaldaric)

This isn't a matter of hyperbole for most people with constructive criticism, it is a matter of preference.   
eg.
I prefer to get what I pay for. 
I prefer to be able to speak my mind without someone jumping in guns blazing to defend Bioware by saying everyone else is just whining. We are entitled to publically share our opinions, with diplomacy and tact, hopefully.
*Snip*
I prefer to be able to state my dislike about an interview without being called a whiner for having an opinion that someone else considers inaccurate. 

There we have it.  MY preferences. Yours can be different and likely are, it is cool.  That doesn't make one side whiners and the others not. Whining about the whiners just makes people look like hypocrites, or at best elitists who consider their own behaviour so far superior to others that common decency only applies when the treatment has them at the end of it.   

See the bolded part.

Who called you a whiner in this thread? What did I miss?

How about applying the second bolded part to Bioware while we're at it? We expect them to treat us like the be-all and end-all, yet 90% of this thread is pure vitriol, So the fans have carte blanche to treat Bioware like everything's fair, yet if the devs show a smidge of affection for DAII and defend what they liked about it, that's a deadly sin/disrespecting their fans...........(What about the fans who LIKED it? Yes, we EXIST!) You see what I mean?

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Persephone wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

Most extensive patch Bioware has ever done for DA 2 or any of their games? And yes, I'm seriously asking this.

One OF the most extensive, not THE most extensive.

Yay, what I'm saying is twisted too. Joy!

Apparently people forget some of the huge NWN patches years after release.

[OdanUrr]

"I've said it before and I'll say it again: I hate you!"

Kidding, I just had to use that Fable III quote. Back on topic, it would seem both EA/Bioware seem to believe it is the innovations that some fans have a problem with. While this is likely true for some, it isn't the innovations that bother me as much as the lack of an overarching storyline and poor environment design. I believe these two do not fall under the heading of "innovations."

[Persephone]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

Most extensive patch Bioware has ever done for DA 2 or any of their games? And yes, I'm seriously asking this.

One OF the most extensive, not THE most extensive.

Yay, what I'm saying is twisted too. Joy!

Jeez, relax. I was just curious because I didn't hear the details of the patch.

That's alright. The Patch Notes are in all the various platforms' Tech Forums. :happy:

[MorrigansLove]

Alpha Protocol did everything that is in DA2 BETTER and it came out FIRST. It is obviously the better game(not technically, though).

Somebody prove me wrong.

Modifié par MorrigansLove, 17 juin 2011 - 06:20 .