1248 réponses à ce sujet

[Bio-Age]

So we have to pay for these DLC's - that address some of the issues that have been brought up. Yeah not going to happen.

[Zanallen]

I felt that DA2 was innovative in that they added things to it that were not seen in DA:O. After all, innovation means the introduction of something new; a new idea, method or device. If they have added new things to DA2 that were not in Origins, that is technically innovation. If you didn't like said innovations, that isn't Bioware's fault.

I also understand that Bioware cannot publicly bash their own game. EA is a publicly owned company. If a Bioware employee spoke out about the game in a negative light while the game is still being pushed for sales, they would risk being fired. While some of you may think they should value integrity over their livelihood, I am not inclined to agree. Not to mention that there are people who enjoyed the new aspects of the game and prefer DA2 over Origins.

The best you are going to get is an admission that the response to DA2 was polarizing, that they are listening to the various criticism and that they will act to address said criticism in future releases. Anything more is unrealistic from a business standpoint.

[hoorayforicecream]

Bejos_ wrote...

I have a question for everyone:

After all of this condescension, are you still going to buy DA3?

Even if you liked DA2, doesn't the manner in which Bioware is handling all of this put you off?

You only get as offended as you let yourself be. I didn't particularly feel as if it was condescension or attempts to blame fans for it. I see a lot of truth in what they said, after you take it through the PR filter... but you have to take it through a PR filter, because that's just how it is.

As someone else said, I buy games because I like them and wish to play them. I liked DA2, and I expect I will like DA3. If that's the case, I will likely buy it.

Edit:

Bio-Age wrote...

So we have to pay for these DLC's - that address some of the issues that have been brought up. Yeah not going to happen.

You don't have to pay for any DLC. If you dislike it, don't buy them. There's no better way to convince a company that you're serious than to stop giving them money.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 17 juin 2011 - 07:01 .

[Master Shiori]

Bejos_ wrote...

I have a question for everyone:

After all of this condescension, are you still going to buy DA3?

Even if you liked DA2, doesn't the manner in which Bioware is handling all of this put you off?

Yes to the first question and no to the second.

And what exactly is supposed to "put me off"? I gave them feedback on DA2 and I expect them to take it into consideration. I also happen to like most of the changes in DA2, apart from level reuse, exploding enemies and the decrease in quality of the story in act 3.

[Tirfan]

Bejos_ wrote...

I have a question for everyone:

After all of this condescension, are you still going to buy DA3?

Even if you liked DA2, doesn't the manner in which Bioware is handling all of this put you off?

I personally hated DA2, all this "innovation"-sh*t is getting me all worked up for, basically nothing, I know they can't come up right and honest and say, we made a mistake, sorry, but I have lost some respect for bioware, I can't deny that.

At the end of the day however - if DA3 sounds good, if it does get good reviews from people I can trust, if DA3 seems to correct the mistakes made in DA2.. I'm going to buy it anyways - there really are not too many rpg-games around, and even less good ones. If it was possible, I would just forget about whole PC-gaming and do only PnP-rpgs, but well, I'm nto 15 anymore, and neither is my group - we can't meet every other day to have a atleast six hour sessions of roleplaying - we can barely manage meeting once in two weeks, and have maybe 4 hours. I do love rp:ing, and if I have to get that fix of mine from PC-games in addition to PnP - that is just how it is.

The point, I suppose is, however put off I'm by all this - the only thing that matters to me is if I get a good game or not.

[Bejos_]

Persephone wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

I have a question for everyone:

After all of this condescension, are you still going to buy DA3?

Even if you liked DA2, doesn't the manner in which Bioware is handling all of this put you off?

No. I don't buy games based on a dev studio's behavior. I buy games because I enjoy them. That's why I bought TW2 even though I am really not fond of CDPR's juvenile antics.

Besides, Bioware hasn't condescended to me. You have. :innocent:

Bioware hasn't condescended to you? Okay.

I'm not selling you games.

I'd much rather go to a restaurant where the staff doesn't try to sell me half-cooked omelets, than one which drops its food on the floor, wipes it onto a plate, then hands it to the customer.

"Uhm ... this has hair in it."
"What? Hahah. Don't be silly. It's a new ingredient. We're innovating."
"Uhm ... It's also raw."
"Stop being so entitled. I'm the one who makes the food. If I give you a half-cooked omelet with hair and grit in it, you either appreciate it or are exposed as the tasteless, backwater restaurant-goer you are!"
"I paid $60 for this. I want it cooked. Or give me my money back."
"No."

Really, Persephone? You'd go back to a restaurant like that?

To each his own ...

Bwahahaha. I can't take your response seriously.

It's just so contrary. Please, explain. I'd really like to understand this.

Modifié par Bejos_, 17 juin 2011 - 07:10 .

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

I have a question for everyone:

After all of this condescension, are you still going to buy DA3?

Even if you liked DA2, doesn't the manner in which Bioware is handling all of this put you off?

DA3 is not going to be a blind buy for me, no. My trust in the quality that Bioware provides has greatly diminished. I'll wait till after launch and see.

Same.  I'm here because I like the world, but I feel like they took their fanbase for granted- and still are, judging by these interviews- and that does not give me warm fuzzies.  I'm not sure they've learned anything.

Although I have to say as caveat to all this, I'm sure that the creative team still worked hard and did their best with what they were given.  I'm angry for them, too, when I hear things like ME3 and TOR being given longer development time when DA got the short end of the stick.

[Nozybidaj]

Bejos_ wrote...

I have a question for everyone:

After all of this condescension, are you still going to buy DA3?

Even if you liked DA2, doesn't the manner in which Bioware is handling all of this put you off?

Well personally, I never bought or played DA2 so I don't have any real investment in the whole thing anyway.  Whether I purchase DA3 or not will depend entirely on the lead up to it, what we hear about the game, and how it is reviewed.

I'll buy/not buy DA3 on its own merits.

[Bejos_]

Persephone wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

The only people who are buying this "innovation" as actual innovation, are the 12 year olds who don't know any better. That's it.

Really?

I am 12 years old.....good to know.

Yeah, I amended it. What I meant by that was, "Because they haven't played a lot of games-- being 12 and all, they haven't lived long enough to-- they don't have anything with which to compare DA2".

I removed it, because I realised it might be interpreted incorrectly. Apologies for the unintended slight.

[adneate]

Bejos_ wrote...
I have a question for everyone:

After all of this condescension, are you still going to buy DA3?

I wasn't going to buy DA3 because it's clear from everything they've said they aren't going to change or go back, DA2 is like Highlander 2 as far as I'm concerned. They so utterly bastardized and destroyed the franchise for me that I doubt anything other than another total reboot would fix it. This is the only game I bought for full price that I had no fun with and hated almost every single thing about it, I hated nearly all the characters including Hawke, I hated the combat and I hated the story and the way they told it.

I've played games that were far worse than DA2 but never have I played a game I hate as much as this one.

[aftohsix]

Brockololly wrote...

So it seems BioWare is intent on painting DA2 as "innovative" and those who didn't like it as some sort of outlier that simply couldn't handle the change and "innovation." What bugs me is how they act like the people that didn't like it are all lumped into one group that simply wanted more Origins. Well, maybe DA2 just wasn't a very well put together game?

Is it not possible that some of the "new fans" they keep coming back to thought the game was a rushed mess too, not just the fans of Origins? Not to mention how are they able to quantify these "new fans"?  Just seems they're almost marginalizing the people that didn't like DA2 as simply being backwards thinking RPG grognards while constantly trying to say how DA2 brought in some new fanbase.

I know they're not going to bash their own game but how DA2 keeps getting propped up with bloated PR speak calling it "innovative" without going into details how they think it was innovative is baffling. Maybe on the concept side, but not so much on the execution side.

What I love is the staunch refusal to admit that maybe you people are in fact outliers.

You've got a whole article with one of the Drs. flat out saying that they're going to take the criticisms of the core fans into consideration and you're still complaining.  I'm really not sure what else Bioware can do to try and "win" "fans" such as yourself back short of releasing Dragon Age Origins 2.

Furthermore I'm not so sure they should be trying very hard to "win" back such a toxic and entitled minority.

Modifié par aftohsix, 17 juin 2011 - 07:16 .

[UnspokenSoul22]

I really enjoyed playing DA2 and still am. In order to continuously grow and further a game, one must be progressive, open to change. Bioware took an opportunity to try something different--I do think they should've taken a bit more time perfecting everything, but, nonetheless...

Does anyone else think BW is going to make more than three installments? I think so. I'll venture to say that it will be sort of like Elder Scrolls, as far as the amount of games are concerned.

[AtreiyaN7]

I assume that the "Innovation" referred to things like the shift from a silent protagonist to a voiced protagonist or the structure of the narrative - and yes, even the wheel, plus tonal icons. Whether or not you agree with the supposed innovations, it seems that they have taken notice of the criticisms, or does the part where Muzyka says they're going to try to address some of the issues the old fans have had with DA2 and satisfy old and new fans not count? Not that I really give a flying fig about "old" fans who still have their knickers in a twist about the game and are yet again upset about something someone at BioWare said.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 17 juin 2011 - 07:14 .

[Hel]

DSerpa wrote...

From what I've read, those who were disappointed with the game (myself included) have a few major complaints:

Re-used maps
Combat waves
Poor inventory system
Act 3 is bad

About the only innovative things in DA II are the dialogue wheel and the framed narrative, both of which I thought worked well. Both of which were also, I think, better received by the fanbase than the three problems listed above.

And additional complaint from my point of view would be the ridiculously long combat encounters (more hitpoints don't directly increase the fun of fighting an enemy opponent.) And as extra positive aspect of the game I'd also add the personalities which are developed throughout conversations.

The latter being innovative, as I haven't seen such a thing in any other game before. 

Modifié par Helekanalaith, 17 juin 2011 - 07:16 .

[bebop50]

adneate wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...
I have a question for everyone:

After all of this condescension, are you still going to buy DA3?

I wasn't going to buy DA3 because it's clear from everything they've said they aren't going to change or go back, DA2 is like Highlander 2 as far as I'm concerned. They so utterly bastardized and destroyed the franchise for me that I doubt anything other than another total reboot would fix it. This is the only game I bought for full price that I had no fun with and hated almost every single thing about it, I hated nearly all the characters including Hawke, I hated the combat and I hated the story and the way they told it.

I've played games that were far worse than DA2 but never have I played a game I hate as much as this one.

And yet 3 months later your still on the forums

[Nozybidaj]

aftohsix wrote...
I'm really not sure what else Bioware can do to try and "win" "fans" such as yourself back short of releasing Dragon Age Origins 2.

That would be a start.  Now see, I would have bought that.

[Bejos_]

Master Shiori wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

I have a question for everyone:

After all of this condescension, are you still going to buy DA3?

Even if you liked DA2, doesn't the manner in which Bioware is handling all of this put you off?

Yes to the first question and no to the second.

And what exactly is supposed to "put me off"? I gave them feedback on DA2 and I expect them to take it into consideration. I also happen to like most of the changes in DA2, apart from level reuse, exploding enemies and the decrease in quality of the story in act 3.

You don't find their PR and marketing off-putting? Okay. Then I can see you still buying the product.

[DragonRageGT]

Bio-Age wrote...

So we have to pay for these DLC's - that address some of the issues that have been brought up. Yeah not going to happen.

Bah.. they made me change my Triss banner here... I might bring her up! She's not showing anything other than the name of the great game of these days!

[Persephone]

Bejos_ wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

I have a question for everyone:

After all of this condescension, are you still going to buy DA3?

Even if you liked DA2, doesn't the manner in which Bioware is handling all of this put you off?

No. I don't buy games based on a dev studio's behavior. I buy games because I enjoy them. That's why I bought TW2 even though I am really not fond of CDPR's juvenile antics.

Besides, Bioware hasn't condescended to me. You have. :innocent:

Bioware hasn't condescended to you? Okay.

I'm not selling you games.

I'd much rather go to a restaurant where the staff doesn't try to sell me half-cooked omelets, than one which drops its food on the floor, wipes it onto a plate, then hands it to the customer.

"Uhm ... this has hair in it."
"What? Hahah. Don't be silly. It's a new ingredient. We're innovating."
"Uhm ... It's also raw."
"Stop being so entitled. I'm the one who makes the food. If I give you a half-cooked omelet with hair and grit in it, you either appreciate it or are exposed as the tasteless, backwater restaurant-goer you are!"
"I paid $60 for this. I want it cooked. Or give me my money back."
"No."

Really, Persephone? You'd go back to a restaurant like that?

To each his own ...

Bwahahaha. I can't take your response seriously.

It's just so contrary. Please, explain. I'd really like to understand this.

No. They have not condescended to me.

And your little analogy is ridiculous, as it's not how I felt at all. Never mind that games aren't food.

Should I care that someone like you can't take my response seriously?

And yet you're asking for an explanation.......the mind BOGGLES.

[hoorayforicecream]

Bejos_ wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

I have a question for everyone:

After all of this condescension, are you still going to buy DA3?

Even if you liked DA2, doesn't the manner in which Bioware is handling all of this put you off?

No. I don't buy games based on a dev studio's behavior. I buy games because I enjoy them. That's why I bought TW2 even though I am really not fond of CDPR's juvenile antics.

Besides, Bioware hasn't condescended to me. You have. :innocent:

Bioware hasn't condescended to you? Okay.

I'm not selling you games.

I'd much rather go to a restaurant where the staff doesn't try to sell me half-cooked omelets, than one which drops its food on the floor, wipes it onto a plate, then hands it to the customer.

"Uhm ... this has hair in it."
"What? Hahah. Don't be silly. It's a new ingredient. We're innovating."
"Uhm ... It's also raw."
"Stop being so entitled. I'm the one who makes the food. If I give you a half-cooked omelet with hair and grit in it, you either appreciate it or are exposed as the tasteless, backwater restaurant-goer you are!"
"I paid $60 for this. I want it cooked. Or give me my money back."
"No."

Really, Persephone? You'd go back to a restaurant like that?

To each his own ...

Bwahahaha. I can't take your response seriously.

It's just so contrary. Please, explain. I'd really like to understand this.

I wouldn't go to a restaurant like that a second time. But that's not how Bioware treated me. I got a game I thought was fun and interesting, with some stuff that wasn't so good, but I'm willing to forgive it.

Maybe they forgot the worcestershire sauce. Maybe the meat was a little overdone. Maybe you were really really REALLY looking forward to that worcestershire sauce and forgetting the worcestershire is some sort of INEXCUSABLE INSULT THAT WILL HAUNT YOU FOREVER. I don't know. I didn't really care that much about the worcestershire sauce, I still got full, and I was reasonably satisfied with the game. I'm sorry you weren't.

What I don't get is why you keep coming to the restaurant you clearly dislike and telling the customers who frequent it that it sucks. One would think that there would be better ways to spend time, like trying new restaurants.

[aftohsix]

So just so I understand. Many of you are flat out opposed to "innovation" however you choose to define it. What you want, essentially, is a game nearly identical to Baldur's Gate 2 or Dragon Age Origins. And you want that game ad naseum for the rest of time. Same mechanics, same plot structure, same party interaction and character types etc... and anyone who likes something somewhat different than that must be 12 or just "like really dumb man."

[Dormiglione]

Persephone wrote...

Well, I for one am looking forward to seeing these DLC and just what issues they will be fixing/tweaking. Good to have the DLC confirmed once more AND to hear that they will address some of the main concerns that have been voiced here and elsewhere.

And if the DLC aren't what I'd like to see, well, then I won't buy them & play something else.

Take a chill pill, for heaven's sake!

^^ this, i agree with you. Lets see how the DLC will be. Bioware can prove with the DLC that they really listened if it really adresses most of the criticized issues. If not, well, then its a no buy and time to move on.

[Persephone]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

I have a question for everyone:

After all of this condescension, are you still going to buy DA3?

Even if you liked DA2, doesn't the manner in which Bioware is handling all of this put you off?

No. I don't buy games based on a dev studio's behavior. I buy games because I enjoy them. That's why I bought TW2 even though I am really not fond of CDPR's juvenile antics.

Besides, Bioware hasn't condescended to me. You have. :innocent:

Bioware hasn't condescended to you? Okay.

I'm not selling you games.

I'd much rather go to a restaurant where the staff doesn't try to sell me half-cooked omelets, than one which drops its food on the floor, wipes it onto a plate, then hands it to the customer.

"Uhm ... this has hair in it."
"What? Hahah. Don't be silly. It's a new ingredient. We're innovating."
"Uhm ... It's also raw."
"Stop being so entitled. I'm the one who makes the food. If I give you a half-cooked omelet with hair and grit in it, you either appreciate it or are exposed as the tasteless, backwater restaurant-goer you are!"
"I paid $60 for this. I want it cooked. Or give me my money back."
"No."

Really, Persephone? You'd go back to a restaurant like that?

To each his own ...

Bwahahaha. I can't take your response seriously.

It's just so contrary. Please, explain. I'd really like to understand this.

I wouldn't go to a restaurant like that a second time. But that's not how Bioware treated me. I got a game I thought was fun and interesting, with some stuff that wasn't so good, but I'm willing to forgive it.

Maybe they forgot the worcestershire sauce. Maybe the meat was a little overdone. Maybe you were really really REALLY looking forward to that worcestershire sauce and forgetting the worcestershire is some sort of INEXCUSABLE INSULT THAT WILL HAUNT YOU FOREVER. I don't know. I didn't really care that much about the worcestershire sauce, I still got full, and I was reasonably satisfied with the game. I'm sorry you weren't.

What I don't get is why you keep coming to the restaurant you clearly dislike and telling the customers who frequent it that it sucks. One would think that there would be better ways to spend time, like trying new restaurants.

Spot on.

Esp. given that the "restaurant" is hiring new chefs to improve their next gala dinner. Here's to hoping for a great dish!

[Korusus]

UnspokenSoul22 wrote...

Does anyone else think BW is going to make more than three installments? I think so. I'll venture to say that it will be sort of like Elder Scrolls, as far as the amount of games are concerned.

What's frightening to me is it took nearly a decade to get from the first TES (Arena) to the third TES (Morrowind), and nearly another decade to get to the fifth TES (Skyrim) and here we are not even 2 years out from Dragon Age: Origins and they're already talking about the third installment.  DA:O was in development for nearly twice as long as how much time has passed since it released, and 4/5 as long as it took for them to release DA2.

The Elder Scrolls are still a one every 4 or 5 years series.

Modifié par Korusus, 17 juin 2011 - 07:22 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

I have a question for everyone:

After all of this condescension, are you still going to buy DA3?

Even if you liked DA2, doesn't the manner in which Bioware is handling all of this put you off?

DA3 is not going to be a blind buy for me, no. My trust in the quality that Bioware provides has greatly diminished. I'll wait till after launch and see.

Same.  I'm here because I like the world, but I feel like they took their fanbase for granted- and still are, judging by these interviews- and that does not give me warm fuzzies.  I'm not sure they've learned anything.

The criticism I want to be seen the most is vis-a-vis the story and general writing, which many see as poor (especially Act 3). I am afraid that all the focus on "innovations" and other technicalities will make Bioware oblivious to the quality of writing. Because that's what ends up pissing me off the most.

I liked Alpha Protocol, despite being a broken game, because it had tolerable writing and an interesting story.
Other than Act 2, which itself had flaws, and a few bits and pieces, DA2's writing is just not tolerable to me. It wouldn't have mattered that much if all the technicalities were great, when the plot makes little sense, doesnt' grasp the concepts of subtelty and complexity and everyone around you, including Hawke, is either an imbecile or a lunatic.

That said, I personally cooled off mostly, after I found my alternative fantasy based rpg. So DA doens't matter to me in the same way it did anymore.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 17 juin 2011 - 07:25 .