192 réponses à ce sujet

[SkippyMcGee88]

This is just my opinion... So flame away.

Most people who support this DLC are "fanboys" and that isn't a knock, since there is really nothing wrong with that...

For example... I'm a Cleveland Browns fan, I still pay for tickets to the games, even though the owner ruined the team and they blow. Yet I defend them and constantly spew out cash for their products.

But with that being said...

I realize I'm being duped, swindled, conned, or whatever other term applies there... I realize they're taking my money and only offering me the basic of appeasement. I realize I always am saying "Wait for Next Year".

Yet they still have my loyalty...

But back to the topic...

DLC, Micro-Transactions, etc... Are not about "improving" the game, they are about making that Company/Developer/Publisher MORE PROFITS.

Plain and Simple...

So defending said companies/developers/publishers with some of the reasoning I'm reading in many of these threads, make me slap my head and wonder if these are the same people who drank the Kool-Aid and voted for Obama because they believed all of the crap he said in his campaign...

Stone Prisoner... Decent DLC because of the the immersion... Worth it, debatable, highly debatable.

Warden's Keep... More like Warden's Coffee Break... 30minutes max, basically a Micro for some items and 8 codexes which quite possibly were more time consuming reading than the actual content.

Now sort of related, I read someone knocking WoW in how much people have spent on it compared to this game and others, besides the "genre" quite a few other things don't relate, mainly that it has the whole "MMO" in front of it...

So besides the fact that it's just plain not applicable to compare costs of the 2... Yet I still read comparisons, mostly in defense of the pricing/content of DA:O's DLC, so...

People still fail to realize it's been out for 5 years, and that content you've spent money on DWARFS
anything and everything any of these other DLC offer. Not too mention add in replayability, which destroys any other game not modded a plethora of times, and even then the odds of getting the same amount of content still won't equal what you can get out of a game like that. And yes some of it has to do with the MMO part...

Now with that said, I'm not defending WoW or Blizzard... Mainly because Blizz and Activisions merging I've noticed
many "EA" trends, ie, basically all the crap that was added in the last year which they charge anywhere from 10-35 bucks(transfers, faction changes, pets, etc, etc, etc) stuff they said they would never do.

But you CANNOT compare the pricing differences...

DLC and Micros are milking money from the consumer to bolsters said companies pockets without the majority of work... Nothing more, nothing less. Sorta like this stupid quote I think once heard, "Milking the cow twice in a day". Take from that quote whatever you want...

They add in, "Cheese above a Mouse Wheel" type things, to appease the appropiate % of the base, while "min/maxing" profits without losing the other consumers...

These do not improve the product the consumer recieves... In "most" cases.

They add in enough to justify what they spent, compared to the reaction it will get... All companies do this in all types of fields.

It will continue this way til the next big "Profit Increasing" idea comes out...

People forget... DLC used to be free.
It was called patches with content. Only recently had DLC been associated with paying money, it used to be DLC just meant that literally, DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT, not Downloadable Content that Costs
Money.

D2 did it with 1.10, TF2 did it... New content, cost? Nothing. Many games have done this, not so many now a days.

Why you ask?

They realized they could charge for it.

People also wonder why patches/hotfixes are not as frequent in most games anymore... Directly correlated to the DLC market.

I'll equate that to an Informercial(Ronco)... "Set it and Forget it". Basically get it out there, collect the cash, let it be. Patches? Well only if we're gonna release some DLC. I mean who's going to buy DLC for something that is broken? Cough, fanboys, cough... Obviously this varies with things, such as MMORPGs which generally have to patch alot to keep the subscriptions coming in.

So here are some  things that have become prominent in todays gaming business market... Not exactly sure if this timeline is accurate, but this is sort of the way it went. And I know I'm leaving some out... But whatever, you'll get my point.

I.E.
Expansions
Subscriptions...
Micro-Transactions...
Cross Marketing Promotions... (Buy this for Game 1, Get this for Game 2) or (Buy Product 1, Get this for Game 2)
DLC...
And whatever the "Next Big Thing" is...

It will continue this way til people eventually say enough... But that will never happen. It's all about money, of course, they're businesses, we're the consumers. They have a product we want, we have the money they want. Nothing more, nothing less...

Things were not always this way, Companies were not always this way, yadda, yadda...

Companies/Developers/whatever start of idealistic...

It's not about the money, it's about the product... (You hear this alot in Hollywood)

That eventually changes... Either they are bought up, or money changes them, or whatever.

It's just how the world goes... It's just how people are...

With all that being said... The new DLC... You can keep it EA/Bioware, you're not my Cleveland Browns.

Modifié par SkippyMcGee88, 22 novembre 2009 - 11:43 .

[HoratioSanz]

The Browns suck. But I agree that DLC has become the norm only because companies realize it's income potential, not because the content or lack there of, it delivers.

DA's DLC was a joke, in terms of dollar to content comparisons. I also love how people are equating the DLC to fast food and movies and clothes, give me a break.

I get it you love Bioware or EA or whoever, but don't use a ****** poor comparison to justify others to shell out money, because you think the 7 dollars you spent on WK is worth as much as that tasty Double Chicken Burrito I got from Chipotle.

It wasn't if you're interested.

Modifié par HoratioSanz, 20 novembre 2009 - 01:26 .

[Ghandorian]

if you think spending 10 -20 million dollars to develop a game engine and bring it to market can be supported by box sales alone than I am sure many game companies do to. And they will start handing out all the free content we can swallow to fill in the gap in the market.



So I will just sit back and wait till then. Will it help if I hold my breath?

[Allen63]

As an Ohioan, I understand the "Browns" analogy -- but, I don't buy tickets or extra stuff. I'm a hard case



I'll be interested in the DLC when all of it is "collected" on one DVD and sold that way for $19 (or less).



Ultimately, that's what happened to Oblivion DLC -- and that's when I bought it. With Fallout 3, I waited for the "game of the year" edition that combined the original game and all the DLC on one DVD.



Or, they could save-up the DLC and use it in a full Expansion (on a DVD).

[SkippyMcGee88]

Ghandorian wrote...

if you think spending 10 -20 million dollars to develop a game engine and bring it to market can be supported by box sales alone than I am sure many game companies do to. And they will start handing out all the free content we can swallow to fill in the gap in the market.

So I will just sit back and wait till then. Will it help if I hold my breath?

Ya developing a game and relying on Box Sales alone never worked in the past...

Adding in free content with patches never has happened or been justifiable in the past ither...

/facepalm

A game can survive on box sales alone...

D2 anyone?

DLC is just another way to milk a cow more than once a day...

Some of the DLC may be worth that extra milk, some are not... 

In DA;O's case... That milk seems mighty watery if you get my drift.

[Agent_0range]

what can i do for $7?



get the buffet at CiCi's, and enjoy some dinner with my buds (and have enough left over to hit up the ghost and goblin machine in the back)or buy wardens keep and have something to do while i make ramen? or search my couch for $3 and buy 3-4 hrs of content for fallout.



storage is moot, once you remember that merchants keep the stuff you sell to them.



Bioware, if you want to sell DLC, at least make it worth it. return to ostagar = horse armor, pretty, shiny stuff. you didn't even bother to design a new sword, you re-skinned starfang, WTF!? In my opinion, take a lesson from Bethesda. the fallout DLC's had a great content to price ratio.

[SheffSteel]

What you said about Obama raises the essential counterpoint to your post. A lot of people support DA:O not because they are fanboys or have unreasonably high expectations, but simply because the alternative is so much worse.

[SkippyMcGee88]

SheffSteel wrote...

What you said about Obama raises the essential counterpoint to your post. A lot of people support DA:O not because they are fanboys or have unreasonably high expectations, but simply because the alternative is so much worse.

Meh... I probably shouldn't have thrown that analogy in there, more off topic than anything else.

But I really hope that's not the justification you used for purchasing the DLC...

And if this alternative is worse... Which I assume would be no DLC.

Then doesn't that really only prove my point about "Milking the Cow" and what not?

[Allen63]

I think it is true that Bioware games have to be "milked" for profit.



Bioware was sold twice (second sale was of the "holding company" that bought them first). Each time, the price was ridiculously high. EA paid so much, they have to do everything possible to "recoup".



DA was in development before the first sale. It's a good, long game mainly because it was already under construction. But, not as long as it would have been if money had not been such an object.



Now, we will see "short games" augmented by expensive (per hour of entertainment and hour of development effort) DLC. Mass Effect comes to mind. EA has to get all the money they can squeeze out of the "loyal fan base".



Thing is, that's their problem, not the customers'. So, we can decide if we like their business model, or not. I repeat, I do like DA -- DA is RPG done right. Just not too happy with DLC.

[INMATEofARKHAM]

SkippyMcGee88 wrote...

DLC, Micro-Transactions, etc... Are not about "improving" the game, they are about making that Company/Developer/Publisher MORE PROFITS.

And what's so wrong with that?

Honestly, making the game in the first place is about making the company more profits so it just seems silly to me that making more profits is some sort of horrible villainous act.

There is no gun to your head saying you have to purchase said content. Said content, by your own account, does little to enhance the game so your not missing out if you pass up on the DLC... Right?

Oh, and their use to be paid DLC before there was DLC... It was called an expansion pack and both BGI and BGII had them so you shouldn't be at all surprised... Right?

[MartinJHolm]

SkippyMcGee88 wrote...

This is just my opinion... So flame away.

People forget... DLC used to be free.

Nonsense NWN had DLC's as well - I can't recall many "free" content upgrades for anything ever, and I've played games since I had a TI99A 25 or so years ago.

[SkippyMcGee88]

Allen63 wrote...

I think it is true that Bioware games have to be "milked" for profit.

Bioware was sold twice (second sale was of the "holding company" that bought them first). Each time, the price was ridiculously high. EA paid so much, they have to do everything possible to "recoup".

DA was in development before the first sale. It's a good, long game mainly because it was already under construction. But, not as long as it would have been if money had not been such an object.

Now, we will see "short games" augmented by expensive (per hour of entertainment and hour of development effort) DLC. Mass Effect comes to mind. EA has to get all the money they can squeeze out of the "loyal fan base".

Thing is, that's their problem, not the customers'. So, we can decide if we like their business model, or not. I repeat, I do like DA -- DA is RPG done right. Just not too happy with DLC.

Well said... I never stated that I did in fact quite enjoy DA:O in my OP. Overall thought it was a good game, yet it had a few issues which I thought could be "patched/hotfixed" to improve the game. Not bugs, but little things to improve the game.

Of course these issues in my mind, will end up being involved in some DLC as "perks"... Instead of being patched in or included like they should have been. Just like I stated midway in my OP.

One could relate that to WK and a Stash... If you will.

Something that had a mod done for it done nearly right away for a stash in camp... So that leads me to the question, of WK more "milking"?

[SkippyMcGee88]

MartinJHolm wrote...

SkippyMcGee88 wrote...

This is just my opinion... So flame away.

People forget... DLC used to be free.

Nonsense NWN had DLC's as well - I can't recall many "free" content upgrades for anything ever, and I've played games since I had a TI99A 25 or so years ago.

So you're saying you don't "recall" many content upgrades for games that were free?

I'll give you a little bit to rephrase that, before I list the PLETHORA of games which received FREE content updates alongside patches...

Of course that list of current games is much, much smaller... But you went back so far, so you left that door open.

Again I listed 2 quick ones in my OP... But that list is much more expansive if you want it.

Don't act like free content in games already released is some kind of never heard of practice... That's just asinine.

Hell if you want a very recent one... WH40K:DoW2 just released one.

And yes I realize they too are releasing some DLC as well...

Modifié par SkippyMcGee88, 20 novembre 2009 - 02:18 .

[Zweijsters]

 Cry me a freaking river, seriously. If you feel your being ripped off, don't buy it. It's not being forced upon you, the game is still playable without it etc. I for one don't mind it at all that they chrage for more content for one of the best games I ever played. As for it being only to support the company, I don't mind that either. It's Bioware, hail to the king baby. All these points of criticism are from your point of view. Lots of other people don't mind, or actually enjoy these coffee breaks.

And what's up with quoting Hollywood? If there has ever been a great farm with lots of cows to be milked, it's there.

Modifié par Zweijsters, 20 novembre 2009 - 02:22 .

[SkippyMcGee88]

Zweijsters wrote...

 Cry me a freaking river, seriously. If you feel your being ripped off, don't buy it. It's not being forced upon you, the game is still playable without it etc. I for one don't mind it at all that they chrage for more content for one of the best games I ever played. As for it being only to support the company, I don't mind that either. It's Bioware, hail to the king baby. All these points of criticism are from your point of view. Lots of other people don't mind, or actually enjoy these coffee breaks.

You could have just left out your first 3 sentences if you would have read my last sentence in the OP...

And the rest of your post just proved every point in my OP... You know the whole "fanboy" part.

But anyhoo, I'm glad you're enjoying the expansive DLC... It was nice I started Titanic in my DVD and finished the DLC before the ship even hit the iceberg. Saved me from having to watch all those boring drama parts.

[Dr3xx]

I really like DA:O. I really want to play it more. I will pay $7 for 30 more minutes of content, because I will play through it multiple times (I've already used WK on 3 characters). If it's not worth it to you, I would just not buy it.... but it's definitely worth it to me.



I wish I could spend 10 bucks on 30 more minutes of Final Fantasy 7, or Tactics, or Shining Force 1 & 2, or Chrono Trigger/Cross.



There's many, many games that I WISH had this option. Bioware is giving us the OPTION. The people crying should really just suck it up, and understand that the world doesn't revolve around you, or your job at the local McDonald's.

[Zweijsters]

From a more humoristic point of view. Riddle me this:



How long will a hooker last you, and what is the price/content ratio. Hihi.

[Ghandorian]

SkippyMcGee88 wrote...

Ghandorian wrote...

if you think spending 10 -20 million dollars to develop a game engine and bring it to market can be supported by box sales alone than I am sure many game companies do to. And they will start handing out all the free content we can swallow to fill in the gap in the market.

So I will just sit back and wait till then. Will it help if I hold my breath?

Ya developing a game and relying on Box Sales alone never worked in the past...

Adding in free content with patches never has happened or been justifiable in the past ither...

/facepalm

A game can survive on box sales alone...

D2 anyone?

DLC is just another way to milk a cow more than once a day...

Some of the DLC may be worth that extra milk, some are not... 

In DA;O's case... That milk seems mighty watery if you get my drift.

Key point here . . . .  . PAST

GM was the automotive king in the past.
Sock-hops where the the thing to go to in the past.
The middle East was the fountain of Knowledge in the past.
Box sales alone was good enough in the past.
a game engine lasted several years in the past.
People where happy to play a game 10 hours a week in the past.
Everyone went to church on Sunday instead of completing quests in the past.
If we are to get any more quality CRPG's in the FUTURE it is going to involve business models that can support a company. Yes it is all about Profit because the Sole Purpose Of Business Is Profit. Slice that any way you want. If someone has a better business model then get it out there and make a your millions. Thats what the free market is all about.

[SkippyMcGee88]

Dr3xx wrote...

I really like DA:O. I really want to play it more. I will pay $7 for 30 more minutes of content, because I will play through it multiple times (I've already used WK on 3 characters). If it's not worth it to you, I would just not buy it.... but it's definitely worth it to me.

I wish I could spend 10 bucks on 30 more minutes of Final Fantasy 7, or Tactics, or Shining Force 1 & 2, or Chrono Trigger/Cross.

There's many, many games that I WISH had this option. Bioware is giving us the OPTION. The people crying should really just suck it up, and understand that the world doesn't revolve around you, or your job at the local McDonald's.

You're a Advertising company's wet dream my friend...

That's generally not a good thing...

Modifié par SkippyMcGee88, 20 novembre 2009 - 02:31 .

[HoratioSanz]

Dr3xx wrote...

I really like DA:O. I really want to play it more. I will pay $7 for 30 more minutes of content, because I will play through it multiple times (I've already used WK on 3 characters). If it's not worth it to you, I would just not buy it.... but it's definitely worth it to me.

I wish I could spend 10 bucks on 30 more minutes of Final Fantasy 7, or Tactics, or Shining Force 1 & 2, or Chrono Trigger/Cross.

There's many, many games that I WISH had this option. Bioware is giving us the OPTION. The people crying should really just suck it up, and understand that the world doesn't revolve around you, or your job at the local McDonald's.

My God man, I hope you either live with your parents or have a GOOD accountant.

If neither.

I have some seaside property in Arizona I've love to sell ya.

[Dr3xx]

SkippyMcGee88 wrote...

Dr3xx wrote...

I really like DA:O. I really want to play it more. I will pay $7 for 30 more minutes of content, because I will play through it multiple times (I've already used WK on 3 characters). If it's not worth it to you, I would just not buy it.... but it's definitely worth it to me.

I wish I could spend 10 bucks on 30 more minutes of Final Fantasy 7, or Tactics, or Shining Force 1 & 2, or Chrono Trigger/Cross.

There's many, many games that I WISH had this option. Bioware is giving us the OPTION. The people crying should really just suck it up, and understand that the world doesn't revolve around you, or your job at the local McDonald's.

You're a Advertising company's wet dream my friend...

That's generally not a good thing...

I'm a guy that likes video games. I'm also a guy that makes enough money to pay $7 for extra content in a game that I love. If that doesnt describe you, I would have to strongly reccomend you do not pay for said OPTION.

[Dr3xx]

HoratioSanz wrote...

Dr3xx wrote...

I really like DA:O. I really want to play it more. I will pay $7 for 30 more minutes of content, because I will play through it multiple times (I've already used WK on 3 characters). If it's not worth it to you, I would just not buy it.... but it's definitely worth it to me.

I wish I could spend 10 bucks on 30 more minutes of Final Fantasy 7, or Tactics, or Shining Force 1 & 2, or Chrono Trigger/Cross.

There's many, many games that I WISH had this option. Bioware is giving us the OPTION. The people crying should really just suck it up, and understand that the world doesn't revolve around you, or your job at the local McDonald's.

My God man, I hope you either live with your parents or have a GOOD accountant.

If neither.

I have some seaside property in Arizona I've love to sell ya.

I'm not sure what's wrong with your reading comprehension, but I'm not interested in property in Arizona. If however, you can sell me 30 minutes worth of content in Final Fantasy 7... I would definitely be interested.


Mouth breather.

[HoratioSanz]

Dr3xx wrote...

SkippyMcGee88 wrote...

Dr3xx wrote...

I really like DA:O. I really want to play it more. I will pay $7 for 30 more minutes of content, because I will play through it multiple times (I've already used WK on 3 characters). If it's not worth it to you, I would just not buy it.... but it's definitely worth it to me.

I wish I could spend 10 bucks on 30 more minutes of Final Fantasy 7, or Tactics, or Shining Force 1 & 2, or Chrono Trigger/Cross.

There's many, many games that I WISH had this option. Bioware is giving us the OPTION. The people crying should really just suck it up, and understand that the world doesn't revolve around you, or your job at the local McDonald's.

You're a Advertising company's wet dream my friend...

That's generally not a good thing...

I'm a guy that likes video games. I'm also a guy that makes enough money to pay $7 for extra content in a game that I love. If that doesnt describe you, I would have to strongly reccomend you do not pay for said OPTION.

You know when you get the responses that include.

"I make enough money"
"Money's nothing"
"Go work at McDonalds"
"I **** 7 dollars"
etc

The actual discussion part of the topic has just died.

I'm glad you make enough money. That has nothing to do with the argument.

And continually spouting of retorts like that to valid points, is quite possibly the reason these companies continue to do these things.

Because people like you "wipe your ass with 7 dollars".

Until the concept of money actually means anything to you, these companies will continually milk you like whatever cow the original poster keeps referring to.

[finnwop]

I liked the DLC for mass effect, the saving colony mission was long, challenging and entertaining. The arena battle thing was also entertaining.



That being said, I haven't played Wardens or Ostagar so I can't comment on how they are. It seems the majority of people who post don't like Wardens, thinking it's too short or just about loot. Which would be unfortunate. I'm not sure anyone has commented on Ostagar outside of just saying it's a bad idea. So for all we know it could be like the Sky falling one from ME, which would be good.



The DLC I have experiance with is the Blood Dragon Armor, which I think is silly if only because there already a ton of existing massive armor sets in the game. Enough so that every character could have their own set I believe. (Juggy, Wade's, Effort, Dilligence, Legion of Dead, Ceremonial, Chevaliar, and a few I forget) but that you don't pay for.



The other DLC is Shale, which is liked quite a bit, the character is useful, interesting an is allowed to interact in every part of the game rather then just being a mute after thought. The two quest areas for Shale aren't all that long, but they're entertaining (Kitty) and do add to the story, so this is good.



Hopefully Ostagar is just the same.





The big problem is releasing more DLC before they do the dang patch... seriously. You make sure the Christmas tree is strait and won't fall over before you put the decorations on it. .

[immortallogic]

you know after reading all these posts about how "I just cant pay 5 dollars for content that is not up to my impossible standards"...or people who complain about the good old days...well guess what its our fault..the consumers are the ones who degraded the fabric of the video game industry... by what you ask? Pirating. you know what the music industry did to stop the consumer from stealing? well not really stop but to at least try to turn a profit...Ringtones. sometimes people dont understand thier actions actually have consequences. its funny how people who spend hourts and hours of thier lives playing a game where everything in thier video game world revolves around them sort of carries over to thier pathetic view of the world around them...wake up and smell the coffe, if you play wardens keep on casual, skip all the cut scenes, dont do any side quests, of course its onle gonna take an hour, play that on nightmare and go slow and see how long it takes, actually enjoy the game, this isnt wow, no min maxing, no grinding, just enjoy the game, I know tough concept right?