192 réponses à ce sujet

[Morte]

I don't care that much what Bioware charge for DLC, I care whether it's worth playing.

I do have a problem if:

(a) It includes loot like Starfang and the Warden Commander armour which is overpowered for when you get it and spoils the balance in the early game. That's especially bad on launch day, when a player might not be savvy enough to spot the problem until the damage is done. In future I'll know to sell Starfang when I get it, but on my first run DAO was a slightly worse game for having WK installed.

( They produce three or four inconsequential sidequests that'll be forgotten in the time it takes to play them. This is a far cry from DLC for NWN like Wyvern Crown of Cormyr, Pirates of the Sword Coast, Kingmaker, and Mysteries of Westgate. Those were real adventures, not sidequests with phat lewt. And then there were the expansions -- HotU was the best thing in the whole NWN1/2 franchise.

The old NWN Adventure Packs cost about USD 1.5/hr. They largely reused existing art and game mechanics (new classes etc were in expansions). I'd happily pay more for similarly substantial adventures in Thedas, but with full voice acting and hand-crafted encounters like DAO.

But I guess it's easier to make 3 WKs than one meaty adventure for our 20 bucks. Provided people keep buying it, that is. I wonder has somebody at EA figured "we can go to the well about three times with stuff like WK, so we ought to tap that while we can"?

All this leaves me wondering just how much it costs to make this stuff. Two years back I was worried that full voice acting would be the death of the serious RPG. I feared it would made them so expensive that they had to cater to the less cerebral market to recoup their costs, and startups like Ossian just wouldn't have the resources to get involved. Now it seems like voice acting may actually be the death of the expansion pack, replaced by high margin featherweight DLC.

Modifié par Morte, 21 novembre 2009 - 01:00 .

[DarkangelX2009]

I like how the DLC thread that was somewhat staying on topic got locked, and we are referred to the obama derail thread.. lol

[SkippyMcGee88]

Dnarris wrote...

I'm noticing that DLC discussion threads are being slowly desolved.

That's a shame you can debate the addition or lack of nudity forever and a day, but DLC....

Because you're attacked by the mindless lemmings if you don't agree with the DLC... Because they take it as an insult to them personally, which shouldn't be the case.

On the other hand if you want to see "boobies" the majority of those same people will praise you with witty adolescent banter and adorations... While a select few "fanatics" will chastise you with the wrath of God. I'm a Christian but it doesn't offend me in slightest if they show an computer animated boob here or there if it fits the story.

All in all, I find the DLC more problematic than computer rendered E-nipples... But to each his own, I guess.

[Kevin Lynch]

Actually, you're pointed to this one because it's the biggest of the DLC-related threads that isn't specifically about Return to Ostagar questions. Whether it was the best of them...well, I can agree it probably wasn't.



I think we've been pretty lenient, actually, in allowing DLC debates to continue, considering how many threads there have been on them. There's only so many times that people can say "not worth it" or "don't buy it then" or "well, I love it", etc, etc, before it's just spamming the same stuff. This one is likely going to get locked and refreshed at some point, too, if it doesn't die on its own. DLC in general can be discussed in the Off Topic forum.



It's all meh to me. I'm not much of a supporter of DLC. Give me a full-size retail expansion any day.

[deadrockstar]

No way was The Witcher flawed on release. It was consitently scored in the 80s on release and at most gained an extra point or two on a re-review.



There was an issue with a translation of one quest in the second act, which messed up the order of things a little. Some people disagreed with some translation choices too ("Babe" being of particular contention). The English was cut back from the Polish version, but never in a game breaking way. If you didn't speak Polish and English you would never even know. They retranslated the entire thing and re-recorded all the dialogue at their own expense, but it wasn't neccessary.



What the EE did bring was a greater variation of character models, a new facial animation system and a reworked inventory system. Again, none of these were game-breaking things in the first place. Also two free episodes of roughly 1 1/2 hours each were included.



I think The Witcher is definitely comparable, especially considering it was built on the Aurora engine and has a toolset not too disimilar from the one we have for DA:O. It is also a mature RPG which deals with some incredibly sensitive issues and, dare I say, does it better than DA:O. I absolutely adore DA:O, so I'm not taking anything away from it when I say that. I think they're very alike and the closest business comparison we can have for this genre of games.



On a sidenote, CDProjektRED are in financial trouble. Take from that what you will.

[mufuti7]

I think the greediness of publishers is only feeding piracy but that´s just me.

Here is a very interesting article why they exploit their customers so much: www.geeks.co.uk/7282-activision%E2%80%99s-bobby-kotick-hates-developers-innovation-cheap-games-you

This part is indirectly linked to DLC too, although the guy is talking about Guitar hero:

"Essentially, Kotick is in thrall to the almighty dollar to the expense of all else. Thus: “In the last cycle of videogames you spent $50 on a game, played it and took it back to the shop for credit. Today, we’ll (charge) $100 for a guitar. You might add a microphone or drums; you might buy two or three expansions packs, different types of music. Over the life of your ownership you’ll probably buy around 25 additional song packs in digital downloads. So, what used to be a $50 sale is a $500 sale today.”"

Another interesting part, if you think about the recent news of EA cutting down their staff and money for developers:

""Maybe the choice quotes of the event, though, came when Kotick talked about Activision’s developers; you know, the guys who actually make the stuff he gets so rich from. You’d think he’d have a bit of respect for them, right? Oh no, Kotick’s goal over the past 10 years has been – you couldn’t make this up –“to take all the fun out of making video games.” How? By instilling aculture of “scepticism, pessimism, and fear” amongst the company’s
staff based around the economic depression and an incentive program that rewards “profit and nothing else”"

Maybe Activisions CEO is extraordinarily evil but I highly doubt Mega Publishing companies are that different in their work ethics...

Modifié par mufuti7, 21 novembre 2009 - 07:24 .

[Darpaek]

Call me a sucker.



I'm wearing a Lion's jersey right now.

[aries1001]

I haven't taken a game back to the store for credit (yet). I've been told I've seen that this used to be the case for games on the Xbox and the Xbox 360 and the PSOne, as well as the PS2 consoles. Most stores won't take back PC games for credit, though.



As for what the CEO of Activision is saying, people that are afraid of losing their work might not work as focused and concentrated as those who find themselves somewhat safe in their jobs and in their place at the company.



I sincerely do believe that companys that's just out take make a quick buck or two won't make it; money can be made of almost anything. Companies that only see it as their goal to make money will (soon) be a thing of the past. Values, worth and a common = why we do what we will be the salient point of companies in the future.



We might wait 20 years or so, before this is happening; we'll het there, though...

[addiction21]

Darpaek wrote...

Call me a sucker.

I'm wearing a Lion's jersey right now.

I would never insult someone who has had such a hard life

aries1001 wrote...

I sincerely do believe that companys that's just out take make a quick buck or two won't make it; money can be made of almost anything. Companies that only see it as their goal to make money will (soon) be a thing of the past. Values, worth and a common = why we do what we will be the salient point of companies in the future.

We might wait 20 years or so, before this is happening; we'll het there, though...

I remember when I used to have ideals similar to that.  Life has pretty much beat them out of me at this point but it is still nice to dream   I think there are still some that try their best to do good by their customers/employees and Bioware is one of them. Not many will come out with a game and in the same week say "heres a toolset, the game is ment to be modded have a great time and we do not care what you do with it"

Modifié par addiction21, 21 novembre 2009 - 08:03 .

[Cuthlan]

Ah, the gamer's sense of entitlement.



I paid for the box game, and I got my money's worth. If I want more, I have no issue paying for it. I buy expansion packs, I bought premium content for NWN, I bought the adventure pack for NWN2... sure, I love free stuff, but I don't expect it.

[addiction21]

Cuthlan wrote...

Ah, the gamer's sense of entitlement.

I paid for the box game, and I got my money's worth. If I want more, I have no issue paying for it. I buy expansion packs, I bought premium content for NWN, I bought the adventure pack for NWN2... sure, I love free stuff, but I don't expect it.

Give them a inch and then they want the whole foot.

Its amazing that I actualy see some screaming for free content or expect DLC's to fit into the magical equation of I played the game for X amount of hours so we divide it by the cost and we get some magical number like 50cents an hour.
We allready get game patches, these wonderfull forums, tech questions answered, and even one of the DLC's was free (rumor has it it was originaly ment to be included in the game but does it make a difference since it is free)

[Psython]

Cuthlan wrote...

Ah, the gamer's sense of entitlement.

I paid for the box game, and I got my money's worth. If I want more, I have no issue paying for it. I buy expansion packs, I bought premium content for NWN, I bought the adventure pack for NWN2... sure, I love free stuff, but I don't expect it.

Ok, so you got your money's worth in the initial vanilla game. I agree, DAO has much more content than most and is a fantastic experience on the whole. So you want more content? Thats great, so do I. The issue is how the extra content is priced and delivered. I dont have an issue with paying for content either. Of course, I dont expect freebees all the time and dont even expect it. Let me spell it out for you so you get it, NO ONE has a problem with paying for content. If they did, they would try to pirate the game or just not buy the product at all. To be against DLC does not mean you are against paying for content. If a DAO DLC came out that was priced in a balanced way than I would be all over it. By balanced I mean, "not a ripoff" ($7 for 1 hr. of gameplay). I will assume most people here can figure out what a cost/value balance is and why the current dlc costs too much (this fact was drilled home in many posts including my own previous).

Let me say this again, I would pay for good DLC. By good I mean appropriately priced like the most recent fallout 3 one which was great. Or I could buy the killing floor model packs for $1. 

Is it not a good idea to support companies that give away content for free to improve the game? I would support that. I think the current DLC is not absolutely atrocious but could be a lot better for the consumer. We as the consumer can decide our own fate. Some people would rather accept it and let it be. You have rights too you know. Yes, even if you live in America. You are not a slave to the media and big corporations, right? I dont know, maybe you are or just dont care any more. Regardless, we all have a choice. I say, down with lame DLC. Give us a better product for the money. 

Also, to the guy who responded to my last post by saying that games that give free content are lacking already, you are wrong. Not only is it irrelevant to the topic (this is about pricing, not quality) but it is not true. Like another posted mentioned, the witcher was a solid 8 when released. There was nothing wrong with x-2, x-3 or dawn of war either. They were far above average games. I would have gladly payed for that content if they wanted. 

Alas, people just dont care about this problem and so we will all be paying out our ears for games in the future. Bobby Kotick will still be CEO gorging himself on a solid gold throne while eating children and performing blood magic. It will all be the same to you pro- overpricedDLCers, right?    

[Cuthlan]

Psython wrote...

Cuthlan wrote...

Ah, the gamer's sense of entitlement.

I paid for the box game, and I got my money's worth. If I want more, I have no issue paying for it. I buy expansion packs, I bought premium content for NWN, I bought the adventure pack for NWN2... sure, I love free stuff, but I don't expect it.

Ok, so you got your money's worth in the initial vanilla game. I agree, DAO has much more content than most and is a fantastic experience on the whole. So you want more content? Thats great, so do I. The issue is how the extra content is priced and delivered. I dont have an issue with paying for content either. Of course, I dont expect freebees all the time and dont even expect it. Let me spell it out for you so you get it, NO ONE has a problem with paying for content. If they did, they would try to pirate the game or just not buy the product at all. To be against DLC does not mean you are against paying for content. If a DAO DLC came out that was priced in a balanced way than I would be all over it. By balanced I mean, "not a ripoff" ($7 for 1 hr. of gameplay). I will assume most people here can figure out what a cost/value balance is and why the current dlc costs too much (this fact was drilled home in many posts including my own previous).

Let me say this again, I would pay for good DLC. By good I mean appropriately priced like the most recent fallout 3 one which was great. Or I could buy the killing floor model packs for $1. 

Is it not a good idea to support companies that give away content for free to improve the game? I would support that. I think the current DLC is not absolutely atrocious but could be a lot better for the consumer. We as the consumer can decide our own fate. Some people would rather accept it and let it be. You have rights too you know. Yes, even if you live in America. You are not a slave to the media and big corporations, right? I dont know, maybe you are or just dont care any more. Regardless, we all have a choice. I say, down with lame DLC. Give us a better product for the money. 

Also, to the guy who responded to my last post by saying that games that give free content are lacking already, you are wrong. Not only is it irrelevant to the topic (this is about pricing, not quality) but it is not true. Like another posted mentioned, the witcher was a solid 8 when released. There was nothing wrong with x-2, x-3 or dawn of war either. They were far above average games. I would have gladly payed for that content if they wanted. 

Alas, people just dont care about this problem and so we will all be paying out our ears for games in the future. Bobby Kotick will still be CEO gorging himself on a solid gold throne while eating children and performing blood magic. It will all be the same to you pro- overpricedDLCers, right?    

Sure, it's a good idea to support companies that give away additional content for free. I also feel it is a good idea to support companies that make games I enjoy.

And the value of DLC is a personal thing. I don't feel a few bucks for another hour or two of entertainment is out of line. I've spent more on less. But if you feel the price is more than the DLC is worth, then by all means do not purchase it. Just wait a while after each bit of DLC is released to get some feedback from others and make your decisions that way.

$7 was not too much for Warden's Keep, for me. It's a drop in the bucket compared to what I spend frivolously on other forms of entertainment, and I enjoyed playing through it and learning more Warden history and getting some cool items. And if paying that helps keep Bioware producing games/content in this genre, even better.

[Blackwidow__]

SkippyMcGee88 wrote...

This is just my opinion... So flame away.

So defending said companies/developers/publishers with some of the
reasoning I'm reading in many of these threads, make me slap my head
and wonder if these are the same people who drank the Kool-Aid and
voted for Obama because they believed all of the crap he said in his
campaign...

Alright, I will.

I stopped reading here, because clearly you are a whack job. Yeah, John McCain and Sarah Palin were the way to go. As a Canadian, I can't believe someone would still think that 

Modifié par Blackwidow__, 22 novembre 2009 - 12:17 .

[Bosch1992]

NEED HELP!!, I have unlocked Assassin and Duelist specs on my rogue, but everytime I level up I cant see the talent trees for them, How do I activate the specs, how do I use them?

[SkippyMcGee88]

mufuti7 wrote...

I think the greediness of publishers is only feeding piracy but that´s just me.

Here is a very interesting article why they exploit their customers so much: www.geeks.co.uk/7282-activision%E2%80%99s-bobby-kotick-hates-developers-innovation-cheap-games-you

This part is indirectly linked to DLC too, although the guy is talking about Guitar hero:

"Essentially, Kotick is in thrall to the almighty dollar to the expense of all else. Thus: “In the last cycle of videogames you spent $50 on a game, played it and took it back to the shop for credit. Today, we’ll (charge) $100 for a guitar. You might add a microphone or drums; you might buy two or three expansions packs, different types of music. Over the life of your ownership you’ll probably buy around 25 additional song packs in digital downloads. So, what used to be a $50 sale is a $500 sale today.”"

Another interesting part, if you think about the recent news of EA cutting down their staff and money for developers:

""Maybe the choice quotes of the event, though, came when Kotick talked about Activision’s developers; you know, the guys who actually make the stuff he gets so rich from. You’d think he’d have a bit of respect for them, right? Oh no, Kotick’s goal over the past 10 years has been – you couldn’t make this up –“to take all the fun out of making video games.” How? By instilling aculture of “scepticism, pessimism, and fear” amongst the company’s
staff based around the economic depression and an incentive program that rewards “profit and nothing else”"

Maybe Activisions CEO is extraordinarily evil but I highly doubt Mega Publishing companies are that different in their work ethics...

I've read that from the Activision CEO, it makes you slap your head and wonder...

And the 1st part of the article while it relates to a game I would never consider wasting a minute of my time playing, all those things besides accesories just show what these games are becoming... Has anyone seen the Sims series, or more obviously Sims 3?

It's disgusting... And when you see a game you like, like DA:O seem to start following that type of style, it's disheartening.

Darpaek wrote...

Call me a sucker.

I'm wearing a Lion's jersey right now.

Going to be a miserable thing to watch in about 9 hours... Our 2 awful teams battling for the basement of the NFL.

I would hope there's no way we're bad enough to lose to you guys, but after scoring 5 TDs all year, it's quite possible...

[HoratioSanz]

addiction21 wrote...

Cuthlan wrote...

Ah, the gamer's sense of entitlement.

I paid for the box game, and I got my money's worth. If I want more, I have no issue paying for it. I buy expansion packs, I bought premium content for NWN, I bought the adventure pack for NWN2... sure, I love free stuff, but I don't expect it.

Give them a inch and then they want the whole foot.

Its amazing that I actualy see some screaming for free content or expect DLC's to fit into the magical equation of I played the game for X amount of hours so we divide it by the cost and we get some magical number like 50cents an hour.
We allready get game patches, these wonderfull forums, tech questions answered, and even one of the DLC's was free (rumor has it it was originaly ment to be included in the game but does it make a difference since it is free)

Give them an inch?

You do realize that DLC wasn't originally associated with "COSTING MONEY".

So saying that now saying oh, well they deserve it. Give me a break. 

WE GAVE THE DEVELOPERS/PUBLISHERS AN INCH, by going along with their MicroT's and newly charged DLC ideas. They got the inch, and now they think that this is the norm and that's how it will be.

You obviously don't have much history in the gaming field... Sure you'll spout off NVN had AvP's, and they cost money, you do realize there are a plethora of other games/companies that did not CHARGE for DLC.

YOU GAVE THEM AN INCH... We didn't "GET" an inch.

By your flawed logic.
If they told you to jump off a bridge, instead of asking why, you'd insult the random guy standing by who was telling you not to jump of the bridge.

Modifié par HoratioSanz, 22 novembre 2009 - 11:20 .

[Kevin Lynch]

Time for that refresh on this version of the DLC debate. There are currently three other DLC-related threads (aside from the sticky) on the first page of the forum, so I won't bother pointing people to another.



Really, you'd think everyone would want to spend more time playing the game but I suppose saying the same things over and over can be fun, too. I hear it loses all meaning after a while.