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[Riot Inducer]

Interesting re-reading through this, after playing through a few times and soaking up a bunch of lore I've made a few theories on the nature of these things.

The Nature of Gods
It is stated several times that the creatures of the fade are born of emotions and thoughts of the physical world, demons and spirits each embody a different emotion or value. If thought and emotion of the physical world create creatures in the fade it seems logical that gods are in fact extremely powerful fade creatures made to embody an extremely common or highly regarded facet of reality. Now it is said that the Veil, the border between the fade and reality, is extremely difficult to breach however the more powerful the fade creature the more easily it can breach this barrier. I believe fade creatures as powerful as gods would likely be able to enter the physical world without the need for the Veil to weaken at all and may even be able to create their own physical forms once here.

The "Combined Pantheon"
I believe, given that the Tevinter gods are proven to exist via the archdemons, that all the gods worshiped by the various societies do in fact exist, namely the Maker and the gods of the Dalish. The unique thing I notice about both the Tevinter dragon-gods, who are trapped deep beneath the earth, and the Dalish gods is that both groups seem to have been subdued some time before the first blight. Whereas the worship of the Maker becomes predominant only after the other gods are silenced.

The unique thing I notice is that in the Dalish lore there is a story that explains why their gods abandoned them during the siege of Arlathan; the story states that Fen'Harel, the "Dread Wolf" or the trickster god, approached both the gods of good and evil and proposed a truce, each god would go back to their respective heaven/hell realms and not interfere in the affairs of the mortal world. However, Fen'Harel's plan was in fact to subdue all of the other gods and take complete dominion over the world. By the time the other gods realized they had been decieved it was too late and they were all trapped. According to the Dalish lore this occured during the Tevinter assault on Arlathan, this marked the fall of elven society and the beginning of centuries of slavery under the Tevinter Imperium. It is said that Fen'Harel left the world for several centuries laughing and congratulating himself on his feat of usurping the other gods, the tale however does not state what Fen'Harel did after this period, however the timeline for this does roughly line up with the beginning of the first Blight and the rise of Andraste and worship in the Maker.

It is my belief that Fen'Harel returned his attention to Thedas at this time and chose Andraste to be his prophet who would ensure that all the world worshiped him as their only god, Fen'Harel would be known as the Maker.

The Motives of Archdemons
In regards to the exact origins of the darkspawn, I am unsure, it seems likely that given the taint's conduciveness with blood magic that the Tevinter mages attempt to enter the fade may have simply gone awry or the Maker may have interfered with the ritual and cursed the mages making them darkspawn. At any rate the apparent "instinct" of the darkspawn to seek out the old Tevinter gods seems to suggest that the mages may have not been trying to usurp heaven but to find their gods who had become silent.

Once an old god is found it rallies the darkspawn and marches upon the world seemingly to only cause death and destruction. I believe that since the old god is corrupted into an archdemon that it's mind is affected somewhat as well, not to mention it has no doubt been stewing in it's own hatred of the trickster god that imprisoned it for many milennia. It seems to me that the the goal of the archdemons is to take vengance upon the Maker who imprisoned them, and to regain their former power and position. Part corrupted madness part burning hatred older than the darkspawn themselves they seek to convert the world to their rule and cast down the deceiver god.


If you read all that, thanks! Hope it evoked some thoughts. :happy:
 

[Baalzie]

Nice writing....

Was alot like what I've already written way earlier though, especially Fen'Harel as the Maker after doing his lowly deed...[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/bandit.png[/smilie]

Nice to see others noticing the same stuff I do in the lore^^

Isn't it also noticeable how much likenesses there is between Arlathan and The Black city?
Especially if You keep Fen'Harel in mind as traitorCreator turned Maker...
And the *from Dalish Origin* vision Tamlen gets of a Black city UNDER GROUND where the blight spreads from it, before some entity focuses in on him and the whole thing goes kabloey!

And all elven ruins existing under ground...

Maybe one day Gaider and company will right out tell us what is the truth behind it all, but I like it being a tad dubious as it is...
Makes You use Your own mind and believe what You will!

[Mithrennon]

One more quick thing I forgot to mention...

Besides the darkspawns connection to blood magic, there are also codex entries speculating about dragons having natural blood magic ability and teaching it to humans, so that could be why darkspawn are drawn to the old gods, the most powerful of dragons.



regards

Mithrennon

[Shard of Truth]

Nice thread and theories (especially from Lianaar and Riot Inducer).



The lore is indeed very unclear in DA:O and I was really upset, that we didn't learn a real secret about the blight and darkspawn at the end of the game.

Lianaar wrote...

People couldn't fight them, because alas the archdemon can not be killed unless the killer's body contains archdemon blood. It must have been diffiicult to be the first of Wardens too and it must have been either some odd barbarian ceremony of drinking your enemies blood or.. pure chance? that they discovered how to make the wardens. (So, how did they get that? How did they manage?)

That's what I'm wondering about too. From what I understand Dumat was slain several times, but came back (reincarnate in another dragon's body?) after a while to terrorize Thedas again.

So somebody was clever enough to drink the blood from the slain Dumat's body to become a Grey Warden and be able to kill an archdemon for good.

I think there was definitely some blood magic involved (the Joining has to be prepared by mages even nowadays) and that there is a connection between this forbidden school of magic and the darkspawn.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Let's not forget, we never have it confirmed that the Old Gods sleeping underneath the earth are not tainted. Maybe the OldGod IS hte Archdemon, allready tainted, waiting.



What we do know is that:

- the old god is beneath the earth (trapped? sleeping? waiting?)

- the tainted can hear it's call (clear indication of a strong conenction between the darkspawn and an old god)

- the find it and a Blight starts.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Aren't spirits Makers first children? As in - created BEFORE others? HOw cna they be born from human emotion then, if there were no humans before?

Something is not right here.



***



On another note, about Andraste.



The ashes and the guardian and the whole guantlet - it's really amazing. Either it's the greatest magic ever seen or it's something more.

The amazing healing properties of the ashes really can't be adequatly explained by simple enchantment or lyrium vains. We never seen any items near lyrium gaining vast magical properties. We never eve heard about it. Let's not forget - magic was allready tried to heal Earl Aemon.



So if the Circel of Magi and even a spirit healer like Wynne cannot do anything for the Arl, just how powerfull must the magic inthe ashes be?

[Kreid]

I don't really know about the Darkspawn motivations, but the Codex (if we're to believe it 100% which I guess we should unless it specifically says the informacion of a certain page is "X" group's opinion or teachings) says that the corrupted Archdemon's goal is simply the destruction of everything and that Urthemiel (DA:O's Archdemon) was simply a hollow carcass of what he once was (which means he wasn't indeed always an Archdemon)

Also it is worth to note that Avernus in his diary (which has no point in being a lie) says that after he started to hear the calling he was drawn over and over to the black city in his dreams and that inside there was "something" that definitely had to do with the taint, so the origins of the darkspawn are definitely related to it.

And finally I just wanted to point out that the blight isn't just a mere "physical" phenomena, of monsters breeding and corrupting things, the taint seems to be somehow magical as noted that even the wheater is affected where Darksapwn stands (fog appears from nowhere and even the sky becomes clouded making it easier for the monsters to get out from the underground)

Shard of Truth wrote...
That's what I'm wondering about too. From what I understand Dumat was slain several times, but came back (reincarnate in another dragon's body?) after a while to terrorize Thedas again.So somebody was clever enough to drink the blood from the slain Dumat's body to become a Grey Warden and be able to kill an archdemon for good.
I think there was definitely some blood magic involved (the Joining has to be prepared by mages even nowadays) and that there is a connection between this forbidden school of magic and the darkspawn.

Definitely the first Grey wardens knew something critical about the Blight as there's no normal means to know what they had to do to destroy Dumat, they somehow got critical information about the darkspawn that wasn't passed on to their followers (maybe because the original Grey wardens died fighting Dumat) and possibly about the very origin of the taint and the Black City.

Modifié par Creid-X, 17 décembre 2009 - 02:35 .