23 réponses à ce sujet

[JunMadine]

If we find a way to be immune to or cure indoctrination we can actually fight the reapers in a better way other then fleet to ship.  If immune to indoctrination commando teams can board reapers and destroy thier element zero core.  Just like Shepard did in ME2 with the derilict reaper. 

Now I kknow this may not happen in ME3 but it was a random thought.  Of all the cards brought by the reapers indoctrination is the worst of all.

[Shepard Lives]

And if we invented a gun that shoots a special kind of radiaton that kills Reapers on the spot, and we mass-produced said gun, and we made it planet-sized, we could win the war.

Easy peasy.

[Whatever42]

Shepard Lives wrote...

And if we invented a gun that shoots a special kind of radiaton that kills Reapers on the spot, and we mass-produced said gun, and we made it planet-sized, we could win the war.

Easy peasy.

Countering indoctrination might be easier.

[jamesp81]

Indoctrination is perhaps their greatest, most dangerous weapon. Take that away from them, and the odds aren't as impossible.

[JG The Gamer]

What doesn't get indoctrinated gets blown up instead.

[shadowreflexion]

JunMadine wrote...

If we find a way to be immune to or cure indoctrination we can actually fight the reapers in a better way other then fleet to ship.  If immune to indoctrination commando teams can board reapers and destroy thier element zero core.  Just like Shepard did in ME2 with the derilict reaper. 

Now I kknow this may not happen in ME3 but it was a random thought.  Of all the cards brought by the reapers indoctrination is the worst of all.

The tricky thing is measuring how long indoctrination takes. Hours or days? That has me worried that if it takes hours then if there is a final epic fight, then everyone is at risk of becoming an enemy. (squadmates included)
Since they are tech superior, what are the chances that something could be created to thwart that? We use their tech so much, the ME universe is too dependant on it. If the Reapers have been doing this for centuries then I would think that they also calculated the amount of technical genuis it would take to counter the signal of indoctrination.

Worst case scenario, everyone dies even Shep. You have to figure that it's going to boil to a full blown and up close and personal battle where resisting indoctrination is impossible.

Second case scenario. Like ME2, a biotic is used to shield the team from  the effects. But the biotic can't keep the field infinitely active so even though indoctrination might be slowed then some team members may still be more susceptible to indoctrination leading to them attacking and being killed.

And finally, if the battle will be fought like the Arrival DLC. Single handedly with Shep being the only sacrifice in the end. I'm assuming that no matter what happens in ME3, it's going to be tragic. Blame it on the Shakespeare I studied in highschool. Even though I hope for the best, it seems all too ominous to me.

Modifié par shadowreflexion, 17 juin 2011 - 10:25 .

[hero3440]

indoctrination can turn a ship crew against each other though it does probably take weeks or so to have actually effect on anyone, but I'm guessing the indoctrination effect could speed up with more reapers near by.

[Paulinius]

Without indoctrination, the Reapers still win.

They can control space since their ships and neigh unstoppable. All they need to do is start sending asteroids slamming into inhabited planets and we'd still be screwed.

[Smeelia]

shadowreflexion wrote...

The tricky thing is measuring how long indoctrination takes. Hours or days? That has me worried that if it takes hours then if there is a final epic fight, then everyone is at risk of becoming an enemy. (squadmates included)

The (not always reliable) Codex suggests that Indoctrination can be "hurried" to effectively control a target quickly, at the cost of having them "burn out" after a short time.

It's interesting that Shepard isn't indoctrinated (or perhaps Shepard is indoctrinated), you spend plenty of time around Reaper artifacts and it never seems to affect you (or your squad for that matter).  The Arrival incident is particularly relevant since Shepard can get knocked out by the signal (which suggests losing to the indoctrination).

It would definately be useful or almost essential to counter indoctrination in order to fight the Reapers so I'd imagine it will be done in ME3.  Perhaps the Prothean scientists on the Citadel turned to studying indoctrination while trapped and may have made some progress you could build on (if you find their information).

Paulinius wrote...

Without indoctrination, the Reapers still win.

They can control space since their ships and neigh unstoppable. All they need to do is start sending asteroids slamming into inhabited planets and we'd still be screwed.

Without indoctrination they'd be restricted to using things directly from/on their selves so it would probably be harder to do this (unless the equipment they need is built in or something).

Modifié par Smeelia, 17 juin 2011 - 10:31 .

[Dannyboy9876]

No "cure" being there for indoctrination renders your argument invalid.

[Paulinius]

Smeelia wrote...

Paulinius wrote...

Without indoctrination, the Reapers still win.

They can control space since their ships and neigh unstoppable. All they need to do is start sending asteroids slamming into inhabited planets and we'd still be screwed.

Without indoctrination they'd be restricted to using things directly from/on their selves so it would probably be harder to do this (unless the equipment they need is built in or something).

Very true. Finding a way to either prevent indoctrination or better yet, cure it would really make life more difficult for the Reapers.

But still, they could wipe us all out. They're still unstoppable on the surface of planets, and although they won't have infantry any more, I doubt they're going to leave the hatch open to let organics in and destroy their element zero cores.

They can easily pull away into space, destroy any remaining warships, shipyards, space stations, and start bombarding planets from orbit.

In the meantime, they can find a pre-space flight race and indoctrinate them to be their slaves.

Edit: As Danny said, currently indoctrination is supposed to be irreversable. Unless they throw in a magical plot device.

Modifié par Paulinius, 17 juin 2011 - 10:37 .

[shadowreflexion]

Smeelia wrote...

shadowreflexion wrote...

The tricky thing is measuring how long indoctrination takes. Hours or days? That has me worried that if it takes hours then if there is a final epic fight, then everyone is at risk of becoming an enemy. (squadmates included)

The (not always reliable) Codex suggests that Indoctrination can be "hurried" to effectively control a target quickly, at the cost of having them "burn out" after a short time.

It's interesting that Shepard isn't indoctrinated (or perhaps Shepard is indoctrinated), you spend plenty of time around Reaper artifacts and it never seems to affect you (or your squad for that matter).  The Arrival incident is particularly relevant since Shepard can get knocked out by the signal (which suggests losing to the indoctrination).

It would definately be useful or almost essential to counter indoctrination in order to fight the Reapers so I'd imagine it will be done in ME3.  Perhaps the Prothean scientists on the Citadel turned to studying indoctrination while trapped and may have made some progress you could build on (if you find their information).

.

Never thought about the Protheans. That is interesting if some form of tech was left behind. I mean hell, we were still finding Prothean data discs in ME1. And since Shiala gave us the cypher, maybe the info could be interpreted. Far fetched? Maybe. But that could be a great "In your face!" move from BW.

[Balek-Vriege]

A couple things need to happen to win against the Reapers:

1. Find a way to block Reaper indoctrination, if not "cure" it.
2. Find a way to penetrate Reaper shields reliably.
3. Find a way to not have your ships not get one shotted (seems this has already happened a bit).

If all three can be done on a mass scale, the Reapers will be destroyed by attrition since there's a lot more of us than them. Best of all, no Deus Ex Machina will be required.

1. Anti-Reaper Helmets, Ship Interior
2. Mass production of Thanix Cannons
3. Mass production of Kinetic Barriers and Heavy Ship Armor

Now they can add some Deux Ex Machina if they want to make the story deeper (semi oxymoron) by bringing Protheans and ancient knowledge etc. into it.

[Dr. rotinaj]

JunMadine wrote...

If we find a way to be immune to or cure indoctrination we can actually fight the reapers in a better way other then fleet to ship.  If immune to indoctrination commando teams can board reapers and destroy thier element zero core.  Just like Shepard did in ME2 with the derilict reaper. 

Now I kknow this may not happen in ME3 but it was a random thought.  Of all the cards brought by the reapers indoctrination is the worst of all.

One does not simply stroll into a reaper.

[Parah_Salin]

The thing is Indoctrination works on nanites (nanobots) and signals from the reapers. Chundering the signals might help hold it off temporarily and be a useful tool. Dats from the collector base, if recaptured from Cerberus, might hold more information on the nanobots, and could potentially be used to develop a cure or vaccine. .

[Cutlass Jack]

Really all we need to do is capture one of the mini reaper ships and hotwire it so we can fly into a full sized reaper undetected. Since the ship is so small, we'll only have room for a hotshot pilot and a scientist. (Joker and Mordin most likely)

Once they get inside, they'll use an apple laptop...er I mean Omni-tool... to upload a virus into their mainframe. This will of course turn the indocrination process against themselves leaving them vulnerable to attack.

Unfortunately something will go wrong and the vulnerable spot wont open correctly on the main reaper. But just when all seems lost, Udina will fly in out of nowhere with bombs strapped to his fighter. Yelling 'THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!' he will do a suicide run on the reaper, saving us all.

[Sister Helen]

@ Cutlassjack : Independence Day? Is TIM president of the Alliance?

[Cutlass Jack]

Sister Helen wrote...

@ Cutlassjack : Independence Day? Is TIM president of the Alliance?

Well he was the president on 'The West Wing.' That counts right?

[The Spamming Troll]

id indoctrinate miranda first.

you can figure out the rest.

[Katamariguy]

Use tinfoil hats.

[JunMadine]

Dannyboy9876 wrote...

No "cure" being there for indoctrination renders your argument invalid.

What about Shiala from ME1?  She was cured from indoctrination by being absorbed into the thorian.  Perhaps exogeni can figure it out by studying the remains.

Modifié par JunMadine, 18 juin 2011 - 07:12 .

[Bogsnot1]

Katamariguy wrote...

Use tinfoil hats.

/thread

[ME-ParaShep]

Remember when TIM orders you to go to the derelict Reaper to retrieve the Reaper IFF? TIM mentioned that his team of scientists found a mass accelerator weapon that shot the Reaper. The Reaper was found "dead", but in tact with it's Mass Effect Core and indoctrination methods still able to be used. If we could utilize that technology that shot the Reaper to "kill" it, we may have a chance to win the war. Or we could mass produce Thanix Cannons and install them on every ship. That should help.

[Smeelia]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Unfortunately something will go wrong and the vulnerable spot wont open correctly on the main reaper. But just when all seems lost, Udina will fly in out of nowhere with bombs strapped to his fighter. Yelling 'THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!' he will do a suicide run on the reaper, saving us all.

I want this to happen now, Udina saving the day would be pretty awesome.  Conrad would probably be a close second.

ME-ParaShep wrote...

Remember when TIM orders you to go to the derelict Reaper to retrieve the Reaper IFF? TIM mentioned that his team of scientists found a mass accelerator weapon that shot the Reaper. The Reaper was found "dead", but in tact with it's Mass Effect Core and indoctrination methods still able to be used. If we could utilize that technology that shot the Reaper to "kill" it, we may have a chance to win the war. Or we could mass produce Thanix Cannons and install them on every ship. That should help.

I think it was just a big Mass Accelerator, it was built on a planet so it could have a really long barrel and accelerate the shot to horrendously destructive speeds.  There are problems with using something like this, you have to hit (missing would be catastophic for someone, somewhere), it could take a while to reach the target depending on the range and you'd need to know where the target will be when the shot gets there.  It's amazing that they managed it at all.

I think one of the most useful things we could do would be to stop the Reapers being able to move around.  As it is, there's nothing stopping them fleeing from potentially dangerous situations and striking without warning (they also know of Relays that we aren't aware of).  Something that prevents them from using their engines would be very effective.

shadowreflexion wrote...

Never thought about the Protheans. That is interesting if some form of tech was left behind. I mean hell, we were still finding Prothean data discs in ME1. And since Shiala gave us the cypher, maybe the info could be interpreted. Far fetched? Maybe. But that could be a great "In your face!" move from BW.

I hope that whatever solution we do find to the Reaper problem has at least some foreshadowing.  It may not be enough to please some people but it's better than making something up completely in the final chapter.

Modifié par Smeelia, 18 juin 2011 - 12:40 .