412 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Sutekh wrote...
The fact I said I'm not in favor of said return set aside, if we have a system like Awakening, then the Dead Warden players can play with a new Warden, while the Alive Warden players can play with their good old Warden. Everyone can play according to that aspect of their canon.

I still disagree with that, because it forces a particular outcome: living wardens have to do one thing. My entire point is to not force living wardens into any outcome.

I do have to apologize, though; I completely missed the sentence. Attention = fail.

Ideally, Dead Wardens' playthrough could be imported so their decisions are taken into account, and the story could be the New Warden picks up where the deceased left, and stories continuing/closing specific The Warden business (e.g. WH) be treated as optional side quests, with possible optional content for New Wardens too, so they're not punished by having less.

The story, though, has to be written in such a way as to incorporate two protagonists - which means that (like in DA:A) it plays without recognizing anything abou the Warden; it just treats you like the new protagonist the entire time. It kills reactivity.

My Warden is Dead is at the expense of My Warden is Alive, because it completely closes the door to any possibility, and allows only one canon. The reverse isn't true.

My Warden is alive but doesn't want to also comes at the expense of my Warden is alive and wants to, and that's the real problem: using the Warden as a PC after DA:O means having some form of cannon.

[Pasquale1234]

In Exile wrote...
DA:A requires you to take on the mission of the Grey Wardens in Ferelden. But there might be lots of Wardens that don't want that. For them, their story ends abruptly. Why should Bioware set a cannon that you like and not a cannon that I like? That's the question I'm posing.

Yes, DAO requires the player to create a PC to become a Grey Warden and go through the storyline.  If a player does not wish to do that, then the game is not one they are likely to enjoy.  I'm not sure what your presumption of canon is.  I am not advocating any canon - only a Warden PC - which could be an imported HoF - or not.

One can say that about any PC or storyline.  If it is not something you (a general you) find interesting or inspirational, then it is a game you might prefer to avoid.  Any type of PC or storyline will resonate with some people and not with others.  My personal response to games that do not interest me (like TW) is to avoid them.

In Exile wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
I just want to see more with the Wardens,
Weisshaupt and the Anderfels. Not to mention whatever the hell they're
doing with investigating the idol and the stuff hinted at with Avernus
in DA2 and the Architect. Not to mention the Wardens' ties to Morrigan,
should she come back. So if they're going to do anything remotely
related to the Warden in the future I'd rather play as the Hero of
Ferelden or the Orlesian Warden Commander than some new Random Epic Hero
of Thedas.

Well, I agree with you that the Grey Warden story could be interesting (if we ever have a story about the origin of the Blight) but why should we be forced into your vision of the Warden?

How would you be forced into anything?

[In Exile]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Yes, DAO requires the player to create a PC to become a Grey Warden and go through the storyline.  If a player does not wish to do that, then the game is not one they are likely to enjoy.

DA:O doesn't require you become a ''Grey Warden''. It requires you drink a magical potion that transfers an altered form of the taint in you, and it requires that you stop the blight. But you don't actually need to relate to the Warden order, want to share their mission, or be willing to lead them after.

I'm not sure what your presumption of canon is.  I am not advocating any canon - only a Warden PC - which could be an imported HoF - or not.

You're advocating a role for the story. And that story requires a reason why the PC is there. In DA:A, the Warden cares about the Warden order, wants to lead them, is concerned about mopping up darkspawn in Amaranthine, and listens to the First Warden. These are all assumptions about who the Warden is.

One can say that about any PC or storyline.  If it is not something you (a general you) find interesting or inspirational, then it is a game you might prefer to avoid.  Any type of PC or storyline will resonate with some people and not with others.  My personal response to games that do not interest me (like TW) is to avoid them.

It has nothing to do with the story not resonating - it has everything to do with Bioware overwriting who my character was, despite the original game allowing me to RP him or her that way.

How would you be forced into anything?

Because I would be forced to play a Warden who would (for example) go north and deal with Warden business instead of join the qunari, or barter her fame and fortune into owning a ****house in Antiva. It would be impossible for me to do anything other but force myself into the role of a character who represents every choice I didn't want to make in DA:O.

[Todd23]

I think the game should make you play as Hawke, but give you the choice to play as The Warden. Has anyone played Twilight of the Spirits? It give you two protagonists, and you switch between them every chapter, until the end of the game when they teem up and you control both of them, but pick one of them for you to use to make the rest of the choices.

[Aradace]

Pasquale1234 wrote...



Assuming your Warden and Hawke ever met.

Your Warden would also be fighting on the new combat engine, with a build from the new skill trees.  Assuming they were both about the same level with their builds optimized, I'm not sure how anyone could predict which one would win.  It would be no different than a fight between Hawke and one of his companions.

Because if given the choice of who I controlled in that fight, I'd control Hawke hands down is what Im saying lol...All the other points you made I already assumed.  And even so, being a Warden doesnt grant any special powers other than being immune to the taint and being able to sense the darkspawn/archdemon.  

But that aside, it's as I said.  Hawke would win because if given the choice between who I controlled during that confrontation, I'd choose Hawke.

[Todd23]

Hawke can only have 2 specializations, that's half The Warden's, The Warden killed an archdemon, Hawke killed a psycho with a lot of lyrium. Besides, The Warden (mage) can learn a spell that does damage to all mages equal to their mana, and steal, all while wearing massive armor.

[Sutekh]

In Exile wrote...
I still disagree with that, because it forces a particular outcome: living wardens have to do one thing. My entire point is to not force living wardens into any outcome.

Please, keep in mind I was only addressing "My Warden is Dead" vs. "My Warden is Alive". The problems arising for different living Wardens is one of the reasons I don't want the Warden back as a PC (read the last paragraph in my previous post).

Honestly, what irks me in the "Dead Warden" argument, is that it sounds like Dead Warden supersedes Alive Warden in terms of validity. i.e. "I went for the US, so that's the new canon, you will all bow to it and your choices don't count. Period." while, for that particular problem, there is a solution. It's a binary problem, so it's easy to solve.

"My Warden is Alive and Queen of Ferelden / is plotting a Dalish Revolution / became a ballerina in Minrathous / met the Doctor and is fighting the Daleks" is a whole different story.

The story, though, has to be written in such a way as to incorporate two protagonists - which means that (like in DA:A) it plays without recognizing anything abou the Warden; it just treats you like the new protagonist the entire time. It kills reactivity.

Back to dead/alive binary thing: DAA was badly done in that aspect, but it doesn't have to be this way. With enough options, differences in dialogue etc... it can be done in a much more satisfying "personalized" way. Import-based "optional" side quests are the key, IMHO. The main plot would be shared, the side ones would be specific.

But, 

I don't want to play a Warden again (or Hawke outside of DA2 DLCs/expansions). Thedas is a big world with a lot to explore. I want a new perspective. Ariella upthread mentioned a Song of Ice and Fire as a model. That's how I want to play in Thedas.

I don't want to play an über-powerful character and miss on character building, and I don't want my Warden(s) to be stripped of all skills either. The former would be boring, the latter would be infuriating. My main Warden being a master archer is part of his character. You strip him of that, he's no longer my Warden.

Technicalities: Playing our Warden would be too complicated to be bug-free.

Aaaaand... the forced canon. I wouldn't mind that much, I usually adapt well to forced motivations. But I understand some people would, and it would be unfair since there is no valid solution barring quantum programming.

[Jason_53]

Personally I don´t think that the Warden (our Warden) will return.
His/her task was to unite Ferelden against the Blight and defeat the Archdemon, task wich he acomplished.
That he survived or not was our choice.

Later in Awakening our Warden defeated the remaining Darkspawn that fled north to Amaranthine.
Again, the choice he made at the end of the game  kept the Darkspawn in the Deep Roads, or not. 

The truth is that the story says that he/she finished that task too and never returned to the Keep, the other details are specific to who he romanced in DA:O.

With this I want to say that I think that the story of our Warden is pretty much done, no matter how much we like him/her.
The only reason I see for the return of our Warden is that another Blight erupts but, according to the game lore , Blights happen every 400 years, more or less, so for the next Blight our Warden will be long dead and for that event the age will have another name, for they last only 100 years.

But Thedas is a very big place so maybe DA3 will be in Orlais, Antiva, The Anderfels, Par Vollen, God only knows where, and we will know the fate of our Warden, and his companions, via game lore.

One question that I have in my mind is: will be DA3 related, or having as main character, the Old God Baby?
If that is so then we will surely know the fate his parents, and maybe their companios too.

With cheerful amusement: the Darkspawn may get very, very clever an invent a tunnel making machine and find the next Archdemon in 1 or 2 years, thus calling our Warden from his/her sweet retirement with his/her LI (that was a joke )

[Aradace]

Todd23 wrote...

Hawke can only have 2 specializations, that's half The Warden's, The Warden killed an archdemon, Hawke killed a psycho with a lot of lyrium. Besides, The Warden (mage) can learn a spell that does damage to all mages equal to their mana, and steal, all while wearing massive armor.

Negative Ghost Rider.  The warden would have to be remade in the current system (DA2 system).  And in the new system he wouldnt have 4 specializations.  Nor would (mage) warden be wearing massive armor because the new system is designed to discourage that.  Nor does he have the ability you mentioned because its NOT in DA2.   Case in point, where YOUR warden might be able to beat YOUR Hawke.  I can tell you right now, my warden wouldnt stand a chance against my Hawke.  

[NitaW]

I respectfully disagree with the OP's plea to bring the Warden back as a main PC.  I like the fact that BioWare' storyline has suggested that there is more to the Warden's story and more to Hawke's story.  I have imagined many times how they would survive in that (seemingly) dismal world where your family and those you love have been destroyed and after they honorably completed their separate missions.  I believe the Warden and Hawke are entitled to an honorable retirement without me looking over their shoulders.  I am looking forward to DA3, and hopefully trying to find a solution which can work for both mages and common folk before the entirety of Thedas goes up in flames.  As a new character.  The Seeker idea was, indeed, an excellent suggestion, and a likely one.  I enjoy running into characters I know from earlier games, but also enjoy that they have other agendas post-game.  If BioWare is listening (or reading, I should say/write),  I support a move onward to new tales, and really don't care if the PC is voice or not, as I can adjust to either state, as long as I am able to effectively communicate with my companions when I want (who each of course have a rich background to share with me), and as long as the evildoers I fight do not explode in manniquin pieces when I bump into them.  Well, and more varied maps would be nice.  I have spent many pleasant hours playing DA games.  Both of them.  Thank you, and all I ask is that you do your best.

EDITED FOR CONTENT

Modifié par NitaW, 29 juin 2011 - 07:26 .

[TheHawkeWhoFlies]

Why are so many people advocating a specific character? Isn't the writing of the story, dialogue and characters, and the gameplay more important than one character? Really? Bringing back the warden doesn't matter if the writing isn't good - DAO-esque quality won't magically return just because the warden does. Besides, if you take into account that the warden is silent and expressionless and forget - for the sake of argument - about the game's good writing, he/she could, quite frankly, be replaced by just about every special guy/girl out there from any place in Thedas and it wouldn't have done much difference. That said, DA2 didn't succeed in making a significant protagonist either, since he/she really didn't impact anything.

Sorry if I come across as needlessly irritated, but I just don't get why it's so important to so many people. If the story, dialogue, characters and gameplay elements are well written and executed, I don't care if the protagonist's the Warden, Hawke, or a new character (assuming, of course, said protagonist fits in with said game - playing Hawke in a darkspawn-oriented story or the warden in a mage/templar-centered tale would be utterly out of place). That said, I'd prefer playing as a new character in DA3, so that it can take place somewhere else in Thedas and let us explore something new.

Edit: I like the idea some people had above about playing a Seeker; for resolving the mage-templar war, it gives the opportunity to side with either faction, and it could make Leliana a companion again (my favorite LI companion, I'll add). However, it might end up giving a similar vibe as being a warden (maybe you should just be working with the seekers and not actually for them - therefore allowing you to screw them over later if you wish). What I'd also be interested in seeing in a future installment is to be presented a choice of several factions to join (let's say the templars, the seekers and the apostates for the sake of argument) instead of being tied down to a single one.

Modifié par TheHawkeWhoFlies, 29 juin 2011 - 08:07 .

[Tirfan]

I don't remember if I have actually posted anything actually meaningful to this topic but, here goes nothing; I actually don't want my Warden back, I'm satisfied with my headcanon with him.. How he has grown quite a bit older, changed hairstyle because his hairline started receding, how he has now a big scar going trough his left eye up to his lips and how hes only concerns are protecting Morrigan & OGB and furthering Morrigans plans. How he still has Vigilance on him (epilogue slides are only rumours, that one was false)

I don't want Hawke back either, I'm satisfied with my haedcanon ending for him too - how he slipped because of a banana peel and craked his skull while he was escaping Kirkwall (Varric just made up the part about him going off somewhere, such an embarrassing death didn't fit his story)

I want a new protagonist, but I don't want a seeker because I don't want to play the bad guy.

[Todd23]

Aradace wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

Hawke can only have 2 specializations, that's half The Warden's, The Warden killed an archdemon, Hawke killed a psycho with a lot of lyrium. Besides, The Warden (mage) can learn a spell that does damage to all mages equal to their mana, and steal, all while wearing massive armor.

Negative Ghost Rider.  The warden would have to be remade in the current system (DA2 system).  And in the new system he wouldnt have 4 specializations.  Nor would (mage) warden be wearing massive armor because the new system is designed to discourage that.  Nor does he have the ability you mentioned because its NOT in DA2.   Case in point, where YOUR warden might be able to beat YOUR Hawke.  I can tell you right now, my warden wouldnt stand a chance against my Hawke.  

What could have possibly told you that he would need to change?  Every single one of your companions except for the twins have their own abbilities for them as a specific charcter.  The Warden is a badass, the characters in DA2 even say that, so why would he only have one personalized skill tree? 

[Ariella]

Todd23 wrote...

Hawke can only have 2 specializations, that's half The Warden's, The Warden killed an archdemon, Hawke killed a psycho with a lot of lyrium. Besides, The Warden (mage) can learn a spell that does damage to all mages equal to their mana, and steal, all while wearing massive armor.

In vanilla DAO the Warden could only have 2 specializations. The third came with DAA. The Warden, or Logain, or Alistair killed the archdemon. Hawke managed to escape the blight without any special warden immunities, keep Kirkwall from falling to qunari influence, and in one way or the other broke a stalemate that had been going on for years.

[Talgrim]

Zinou wrote...

I still don't get how people get attached to a character who never talks ...

Maybe because you never played Baldur's Gate or KOTOR ...

I want my wardens back !

[Realmzmaster]

Talgrim wrote...

Zinou wrote...

I still don't get how people get attached to a character who never talks ...

Maybe because you never played Baldur's Gate or KOTOR ...

I want my wardens back !

I played both Baldur's Gate and KOTOR. I do not want my warden back:lol:!

[Ariella]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Talgrim wrote...

Zinou wrote...

I still don't get how people get attached to a character who never talks ...

Maybe because you never played Baldur's Gate or KOTOR ...

I want my wardens back !

I played both Baldur's Gate and KOTOR. I do not want my warden back:lol:!

Amen! My Warden is fine right where she is.

[Serpieri Nei]

Talgrim wrote...

Zinou wrote...

I still don't get how people get attached to a character who never talks ...

Maybe because you never played Baldur's Gate or KOTOR ...

I want my wardens back !

Definitely don't want Hawke back.

Would rather have the Warden as well

[DonutsDealer]

Well, for some players the story of the Warden is done and for some other people isn't done. In my opinion the best would be to give the chance to choose between playing the HoF or another warden. Awakeining did it quite well (except when they didn't give the chance to import your save of the US), if you were The Warden you was called HoF, if you are the orlesian you are called Commander. I think it was pretty nice because you could start a new warden and a new story or retake the HoF story. If they did it in DA3 giving you the chance to have 3 different origins as HoF/Orlesian Commander, Hawke and for example a warden from the Anderfels, it would satisfy those who want to play Hawke or the Warden (HoF/Orlesian Commander or a new one).

[Tirfan]

Well, we won't have that, I think BW has already declared they are not going back to silent protagonist, which means, goodbye to the even somewhat deep RP-experiences I have had with cRPG:s with the new BW-titles.

[Aradace]

Todd23 wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

Hawke can only have 2 specializations, that's half The Warden's, The Warden killed an archdemon, Hawke killed a psycho with a lot of lyrium. Besides, The Warden (mage) can learn a spell that does damage to all mages equal to their mana, and steal, all while wearing massive armor.

Negative Ghost Rider.  The warden would have to be remade in the current system (DA2 system).  And in the new system he wouldnt have 4 specializations.  Nor would (mage) warden be wearing massive armor because the new system is designed to discourage that.  Nor does he have the ability you mentioned because its NOT in DA2.   Case in point, where YOUR warden might be able to beat YOUR Hawke.  I can tell you right now, my warden wouldnt stand a chance against my Hawke.  

What could have possibly told you that he would need to change?  Every single one of your companions except for the twins have their own abbilities for them as a specific charcter.  The Warden is a badass, the characters in DA2 even say that, so why would he only have one personalized skill tree? 

You're still missing my point.  Probably because you have such a hard on for your warden that you cant see it lol.  I'd let you read my post again real quick but Ill do you a favor and make my point crystal;  YOUR warden may be a "badass".  That doesnt mean that EVERYONE thinks the sun shines out of thier warden's ass lol.  The ONLY way my warden would stand a chance against my Hawke is if he brought friends.  One on one, my Hawke would lay such a beating on Mahariel that by the time he woke up, his armor would be out of style lol.  

Do you honestly believe that if you did get to see and/or play your warden again (which you wont, because Laidlaw's already pretty much said so) that he/she would have the exact same skills as he/she did in Origins?  And as someone else already pointed out, in vanilla Origins, the warden only had 2 specializations.  It wasnt until Awakening that you got the other 2.  Which I am sure, once DA2's "expansion" hits, you'll probably get another 2 for Hawke as well.  

Alistairlover94 wrote...

I don't necessarily want The Warden back. Just a silent blank slate PC I can call my own.

 

Might I suggest you never selling your copy of Origins?  Because, once again for the 189237401983274012th time.  You will not be getting a slient  PC for the next game.  It's simply a fact of life you are going to have to accept, adapt, and overcome.  If you want your PC to be "silent", might I suggest using the mute button on your TV or monitor?  
 

Modifié par Aradace, 29 juin 2011 - 11:28 .

[KotorEffect3]

harkness72 wrote...

First of all, let me start off by saying that I know the developers likely want to continue Hawke's story, or give us a third protagonist, but I feel (as no doubt many others do) that bringing back the Warden would benefit Bioware as much as it would please us sqealing fans. The primary reason for this is due to the Warden being immensley popular, so, if Dragon Age III was marketed as thier return, imagine the big bucks it'd draw in, as well as delighting the somewhat torn fanbase. Both the Warden and Hawke seemed to be tied to a single fate, so please bring the Warden back as a NPC at least.

I love the Warden but let him/her ride off into the sunset,  the warden did their job and ended the blight and then we got a little icing with awakening and the DLCs but the warden's story is finished.  I have no problem continuing the story with Hawke and I would like to see Bethany/Carver come back as permanent squadmates in the sequal as well.  Yes DA 2 had an unsatisfying ending (still liked the game though so I am not a hater) but it also left alot of room and potential for the Hawke character to be thrust into the middle of this Templar/Mage war that has started.

[metalgirl-1]

I personally don't want the warden back. The warden in my eyes has finished their story. I used to think that Hawke should be the protagonist for DA3, as their story seems to have some bits and pieces left but I really hope they use the DLC to finish up Hawke's story too so there will be a new protagonist in DA3. Preferably a Fereldan because I can't stand those Orlasian(sp?) accents (I think DA3 will take place in Orlais. A country filled with crazy maker-loving red-heads...yay<_<), and I'm pretty positive from now on all DA protagonists will be voiced.  So I don't think the warden or warden-esque characters are in the future.

[JamieCOTC]

Had "Witch Hunt" not been so disappointing, I would have not have a problem w/ the Warden's story being done. In fact, I like the idea of closing the book on the Warden, but for s/he to go out in a $7.00 commercial for DA2 is just ... tacky. 

I don't need a whole game based on the Warden for closure, but at the same time I don't want to hear that the s/he died or "went off to find the true sith." For all its faults, DA2 did evolve some good storytelling techniques. I hope they use them for the Warden some day.

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 30 juin 2011 - 03:12 .