412 réponses à ce sujet

[KLUME777]

In Exile wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...
Why? It's not like DAO was the only modern RPG to have no voice. What about Oblivion, Fallout 3, New Vegas and upcoming Skyrim? I'm sure there are others too.

Well, we can debate the extent to which any of the Bestheda games are actually RPGs. I think they're action RPGs in the same vein as Diablo.

I atleast count New Vegas as more of an RPG than DA2, in all ways. There are more story related choices that affect the game much more than what DA2 did, traditional RPG stats play a bigger part, loot system, relationships (not romance) with companions... It may be action, but so was DA2 and ME series, New Vegas is better in every way, imo.

[Todd23]

[quote]Aradace wrote...

[quote]Todd23 wrote...

[quote]Aradace wrote...

[quote]Todd23 wrote...

Hawke can only have 2 specializations, that's half The Warden's, The Warden killed an archdemon, Hawke killed a psycho with a lot of lyrium. Besides, The Warden (mage) can learn a spell that does damage to all mages equal to their mana, and steal, all while wearing massive armor.[/quote]

Negative Ghost Rider.  The warden would have to be remade in the current system (DA2 system).  And in the new system he wouldnt have 4 specializations.  Nor would (mage) warden be wearing massive armor because the new system is designed to discourage that.  Nor does he have the ability you mentioned because its NOT in DA2.   Case in point, where YOUR warden might be able to beat YOUR Hawke.  I can tell you right now, my warden wouldnt stand a chance against my Hawke.  


[/quote]
What could have possibly told you that he would need to change?  Every single one of your companions except for the twins have their own abbilities for them as a specific charcter.  The Warden is a badass, the characters in DA2 even say that, so why would he only have one personalized skill tree? 

[/quote]

You're still missing my point.  Probably because you have such a hard on for your warden that you cant see it lol.  I'd let you read my post again real quick but Ill do you a favor and make my point crystal;  YOUR warden may be a "badass".  That doesnt mean that EVERYONE thinks the sun shines out of thier warden's ass lol.  The ONLY way my warden would stand a chance against my Hawke is if he brought friends.  One on one, my Hawke would lay such a beating on Mahariel that by the time he woke up, his armor would be out of style lol.  

Do you honestly believe that if you did get to see and/or play your warden again (which you wont, because Laidlaw's already pretty much said so) that he/she would have the exact same skills as he/she did in Origins?  And as someone else already pointed out, in vanilla Origins, the warden only had 2 specializations.  It wasnt until Awakening that you got the other 2.  Which I am sure, once DA2's "expansion" hits, you'll probably get another 2 for Hawke as well.  

[quote]
I may have a hard on for my warden, but that doesn't mean I won't see him again.  Witch Hunt, the final dlc for The Warden ends in a cliffhanger.  Even if The Warden doesn't go missing, DA2 will say their gone by the end, and that it has something to do with Hawke's disapearence.  You only get a third specialization from Awakening.  The fourth one is do to a flaw, and by some chance DA2 gets the same flaw, they're gonna' fix it.  It's exclusivly Origins that got ignored on half their flaws, DA2 hasn't been so lucky.

[Aradace]

@Todd - By "never see your warden again" I mean you'll never get to play him/her again. It's as simple as that.  
And you're right, it is one extra specialization lol...Should tell you how long it's been since I've actually played Origins.

Only reason I've kept Origins this long is because there is no "interactive" comic at the beginning of DA2 like there is with the PS3 (And 360 version now) of ME2.  If they ever introduced something like that for DA2, you can guarantee that I'd be at gamestop the same day trading in my copy of Origins towards my shiny new copy of The Witcher 2 which is slotted for an Xbox 360 release by the end of this year.  (This is not speculation, CD Project has already confirmed it just prior to E3 this year.)

Modifié par Aradace, 01 juillet 2011 - 02:39 .

[Captain_Obvious]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

And there are people, like me who would rather not revisit the warden and get a new protagonist (as I'm sure there are people who would rather play as Hawke again and no-one else). Now what ? Who does Bioware listen to ?

This.  As much as I liked DA:O and DA2, I want a new game, with new people and new places.  I'm done with the warden unless I want to go back and play Origins.  Same with Hawke. 

[Todd23]

I understand everyone wanting to have a new protagonist, but that doesn't mean you need to be hating on The Warden. How about The Warden being a companion member that comes at the end like Loghain?

[WidowMaker9394]

Before DA2 I probably would have said some random "No, his/her story is finished blah blah blah" but now I really want to play with my Mage (see my avatar) again.

It is regrettable that Bioware didn't have some kind of NG+ in Dragon Age: Origins because it's a pain to remake a character perfectly using the CC.

Just importing her into Awakening again just wouldn't be the same thing but I would kill for an entirely new adventure where I could use her, with or without voice.

[KLUME777]

WidowMaker9394 wrote...

Before DA2 I probably would have said some random "No, his/her story is finished blah blah blah" but now I really want to play with my Mage (see my avatar) again.

It is regrettable that Bioware didn't have some kind of NG+ in Dragon Age: Origins because it's a pain to remake a character perfectly using the CC.

Just importing her into Awakening again just wouldn't be the same thing but I would kill for an entirely new adventure where I could use her, with or without voice.

Agreed, i would kill to play with my first character (avatar to the left), i can't recreate her in the CC (i would love an option to save the face).

[philippe willaume]

Hello
Can someone explain to me how wanting to have a new character and wanting to play the warden again is mutually exclusive?

Playing an existing character in a level based game is quite difficult from a game balance design standpoint but this different matter. (or you can use the good old TW1 amnesia trick…)

Modifié par philippe willaume, 03 juillet 2011 - 01:12 .

[In Exile]

Todd23 wrote...

I understand everyone wanting to have a new protagonist, but that doesn't mean you need to be hating on The Warden. How about The Warden being a companion member that comes at the end like Loghain?

No, because Bioware still has to make decisions about my character without me. Maybe my Warden is 2 continents over or drowned in a puddle while stumbling drunk.

KLUME777 wrote...
I atleast count New Vegas as more of an RPG
than DA2, in all ways. There are more story related choices that affect
the game much more than what DA2 did, traditional RPG stats play a
bigger part, loot system, relationships (not romance) with
companions... It may be action, but so was DA2 and ME series, New Vegas
is better in every way, imo.

I don't want to debate New Vegas. I don't consider it a good RPG, and to me it effectively contains a laundry list of features a good RPG should never have outside of the SPECIAL system and the perks.

New Vegas, regardless of any complexity, plays exactly like ME1 in terms of FPS + stats.

[Todd23]

In Exile wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

I understand everyone wanting to have a new protagonist, but that doesn't mean you need to be hating on The Warden. How about The Warden being a companion member that comes at the end like Loghain?

No, because Bioware still has to make decisions about my character without me. Maybe my Warden is 2 continents over or drowned in a puddle while stumbling drunk.

They've been making decisions about your character without you since day1.  In Awakening they chose that you became Warden Commander, but referenced your decisions having been done inbetween origins and Awakening.  If you want to get anal about every little detail about your character, then Hawke is an even worse character for you to be controlling in the future.

[Tirfan]

^ Bioware gave a set of restrictions to make the Warden within; as In Exile has put it he has to Love Ferelden/The Wardens. After that it is within the Wardens character to recruit the allies and cure Eamon to defeat the Blight. And after that I was given points where I could express my Wardens view and personality, and thus, the Warden became MY character, who does certain kinds of things in a certain way.

Awakening already screwed me over, it wasn't ever mentioned when I created my Warden that he would need to want to become the Warden Commander too in addition to loving the Wardens/Ferelden. My Warden originally saw that he had done his duty and went on to search for Morrigan, I had to change how my Warden viewed things, this is not good. If I am given opportunity to shape my character the way I want (to some extent), I want to know what the restrictions are at the beginning so I can make the Warden to make sense. And I have such a huge hard on for my Warden that I don't want him back. He has right now an headcanon ending that fits his character, and I'm so very content with it, I don't want Bioware controlling my character any more than is necessary.

Edit: to make it clear, I don't want to hear about the restrictions after I've played as him for 80 hours already. I don't want to scrap most of his character development which he went trough that playtime, even if most of it happened only in my head, this is an important aspect of roleplaying for me, how he interracts with people and how this and the events he goes through affect him. If he came back and I'd have to scrap all of this, it would ruin the character for me.

Modifié par Tirfan, 07 juillet 2011 - 01:16 .

[In Exile]

Todd23 wrote...
They've been making decisions about your character without you since day1.

Sure. But DA:O wasn't that bad in this regard. Tirfan addressed it well.

In Awakening they chose that you became Warden Commander, but referenced your decisions having been done inbetween origins and Awakening. 

This was, and it broke DA:A for me. I played it once, because I was curious to see the expansion. But that was it.

If you want to get anal about every little detail about your character, then Hawke is an even worse character for you to be controlling in the future.

I don't care about details. I care about really big things like ''making choices''. And DA2's only major flop with that was forcing Hawke to choose sides.

Modifié par In Exile, 07 juillet 2011 - 02:09 .

[Pasquale1234]

Tirfan wrote...
Edit: to make it clear, I don't want to hear about the restrictions after I've played as him for 80 hours already. I don't want to scrap most of his character development which he went trough that playtime, even if most of it happened only in my head, this is an important aspect of roleplaying for me, how he interracts with people and how this and the events he goes through affect him. If he came back and I'd have to scrap all of this, it would ruin the character for me.

Understandably so - and I'm all for player choice, at least as much as it is reasonably possible to implement.

If DAA didn't work for some people and their HoF Wardens, they had the ability to use an Orlesian Warden instead.

In asking for the opportunity to play the HoF again, I have always supported the idea that those who do not wish to play the HoF again could create a new Warden for a new game.

I am still of the opinion that there is much more for the Grey Wardens to do and that unless s/he is dead, retired, serving on the throne, or gone through the eluvian, the HoF would be very involved in that work.

[In Exile]

Pasquale1234 wrote...
If DAA didn't work for some people and their HoF Wardens, they had the ability to use an Orlesian Warden instead.

You didn't. You had to surrender your world state. And DA:A doesn't work for me, full stop. Bioware insisted on making that story part of the lore and importing choices, so if I wanted a particular world state in DA3 I had no option but to play DA:A. Once.

In asking for the opportunity to play the HoF again, I have always supported the idea that those who do not wish to play the HoF again could create a new Warden for a new game.

I don't want to play any Warden. I will actively oppose any DA game with a Warden protagonist, irrespective of how much I don't want Bioware to overwrite my previous character.

I am still of the opinion that there is much more for the Grey Wardens to do and that unless s/he is dead, retired, serving on the throne, or gone through the eluvian, the HoF would be very involved in that work.

And I think that story (if Bioware was set on it) is best told without the baggage of any previous character.

Modifié par In Exile, 07 juillet 2011 - 02:35 .

[Pasquale1234]

In Exile wrote...

I don't want to play any Warden. I will actively oppose any DA game with a Warden protagonist, irrespective of how much I don't want Bioware to overwrite my previous character.

Have at it.

And I will continue to actively support the return of a Warden protagonist - or at the very least a meaningful appearance or part of a game where players can play as a Warden - with the option to play as the HoF or create a new Warden.

I respect and support the head canons of those who feel their HoF's story is completed or is off doing something else.  My canon Warden is still very much alive and dedicated to serving in that role.  As there is more Grey Warden work to be done, she would be playing a key role in it.  Failing to include her violates my head canon and choices, and I see no legitimate reason why this franchise would continue with darkspawn/Grey Warden business and *not* give us the option to include the HoF in that work.

[thenemesis1]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

In Exile wrote...

I don't want to play any Warden. I will actively oppose any DA game with a Warden protagonist, irrespective of how much I don't want Bioware to overwrite my previous character.

Have at it.

And I will continue to actively support the return of a Warden protagonist - or at the very least a meaningful appearance or part of a game where players can play as a Warden - with the option to play as the HoF or create a new Warden.

I respect and support the head canons of those who feel their HoF's story is completed or is off doing something else.  My canon Warden is still very much alive and dedicated to serving in that role.  As there is more Grey Warden work to be done, she would be playing a key role in it.  Failing to include her violates my head canon and choices, and I see no legitimate reason why this franchise would continue with darkspawn/Grey Warden business and *not* give us the option to include the HoF in that work.

This right here, who ever is after Hawke, if you see the end of Dragon age 2, makes you think the same people are after the HOF, our Warden too. I think the Warden became more then a Warden and is by far a very important part of what is to come.

[In Exile]

Pasquale1234 wrote...
Have at it.

And I will continue to actively support the return of a Warden protagonist - or at the very least a meaningful appearance or part of a game where players can play as a Warden - with the option to play as the HoF or create a new Warden.

We'll see who wins.

So far, we have Bioware dedicated to PC VO, so score one for me. But we'll see.

I respect and support the head canons of those who feel their HoF's story is completed or is off doing something else.  My canon Warden is still very much alive and dedicated to serving in that role.As there is more Grey Warden work to be done, she would be playing a key role in it.

So what? Why does your make-believe ending matter more than my make believe ending?

Failing to include her violates my head canon and choices, and I see no legitimate reason why this franchise would continue with darkspawn/Grey Warden business and *not* give us the option to include the HoF in that work.

There's no going on with Leliana (who one of my Wardens will go with) and Bioware clearly did not care. So why should the darkspawn storyline get any more attention?

It comes down to you wanting a game for the cannon you have. And that's no better reason than mine.

[Pasquale1234]

In Exile wrote...

We'll see who wins.

So far, we have Bioware dedicated to PC VO, so score one for me. But we'll see.

Sorry you see this as a zero-sum game.  I don't, and would prefer a win-win.

In Exile wrote...

So what? Why does your make-believe ending matter more than my make believe ending?

I have suggested nothing that would violate your make-believe ending, but have consistently advocated for player choice. Misrepresenting my arguments does nothing to validate yours.

And it isn't just about me.  There seem to be at least as many people posting in this forum who want to see the HoF back in action as those who do not.

Modifié par Pasquale1234, 08 juillet 2011 - 05:25 .

[Todd23]

I'm with Pasquale on this one, making a new protagonist would be good, but only if this time they let us import data at the same time. And don't say PC VO is score one for you, keep in mind that at the end of DA2 they make it completely clear that The Warden is gone, and it is not a coincidence that Hawke is gone as well.

PS:  If you don't want to be involved with Wardens and Darkspawn, then instead of saying they shouldn't be in DA3, you should PLAY SOMEHTHING ELSE.  Something that isn't a game based on Grey Wardens and Darkspawn.

Modifié par Todd23, 10 juillet 2011 - 07:48 .

[Terraforming]

Captain_Obvious wrote...

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

And there are people, like me who would rather not revisit the warden and get a new protagonist (as I'm sure there are people who would rather play as Hawke again and no-one else). Now what ? Who does Bioware listen to ?

This.  As much as I liked DA:O and DA2, I want a new game, with new people and new places.  I'm done with the warden unless I want to go back and play Origins.  Same with Hawke. 

Yep, same here. I loved my warden and if Bioware had decided to make more expansions for DAO, I would have played them in a heartbeat. But, I don't need to see either the Warden or Hawke leading the next game. Honestly, I would prefer that they didn't.

Honestly, though I enjoy Mass Effect a lot, I don't need another Bioware series with one primary hero running through all the games. Mentions of my Warden and my Hawke in DA3 would be neat (not even necessary), but I'm fine leaving them to their respective stories.

Just my opinion though, of course. I can definitely understand why others would want either protagonist to come back.

[vallore]

I prefer a third character to the warden and I prefer not to see it as a companion either; As a character, I would be difficult to accommodate all  the different warden’s motivations to bring him back to a new story. For some wardens, being brought back would necessarily feel forced.

And I suspect that, if he was used as a companion, both appearance and character of “my” warden would necessarily be changed, making him into someone different from the character I developed, so why bring him back anyway?

[ReallyRue]

Terraforming wrote...

Captain_Obvious wrote...

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

And there are people, like me who would rather not revisit the warden and get a new protagonist (as I'm sure there are people who would rather play as Hawke again and no-one else). Now what ? Who does Bioware listen to ?

This.  As much as I liked DA:O and DA2, I want a new game, with new people and new places.  I'm done with the warden unless I want to go back and play Origins.  Same with Hawke. 

Yep, same here. I loved my warden and if Bioware had decided to make more expansions for DAO, I would have played them in a heartbeat. But, I don't need to see either the Warden or Hawke leading the next game. Honestly, I would prefer that they didn't.

Honestly, though I enjoy Mass Effect a lot, I don't need another Bioware series with one primary hero running through all the games. Mentions of my Warden and my Hawke in DA3 would be neat (not even necessary), but I'm fine leaving them to their respective stories.

Just my opinion though, of course. I can definitely understand why others would want either protagonist to come back.

I agree with you guys. I like seeing Thedas from a fresh perspective each time. A new character, probably in a different country, with their own story and goals.

[Jessihatt]

ReallyRue wrote...

I agree with you guys. I like seeing Thedas from a fresh perspective each time. A new character, probably in a different country, with their own story and goals.

Same, although I would like to continue the trend of being a Ferelden.

[In Exile]

Pasquale1234 wrote...
Sorry you see this as a zero-sum game.  I don't, and would prefer a win-win.

It is a zero-sum game. Depending on what the plot of a potential DA3 is, I won't buy the game. The plot that you want is a lose for me, because it wouldn't be a game I'd care to play, and may well sour me on the series.

I have suggested nothing that would violate your make-believe ending, but have consistently advocated for player choice. Misrepresenting my arguments does nothing to validate yours.

You repeatedly say the game should either let you play your Warden (yay, you win! you get a game on personal cannon!) or a new Warden protagonist (I get to know that Bioware will never write any more stories for *my* Hero of Ferelden; Bioware just out and out tells me my character isn't important).

Saying I have a choice to abandon my hero and invent a new one or play your Warden's personality is respecting player choice. 

And it isn't just about me.  There seem to be at least as many people posting in this forum who want to see the HoF back in action as those who do not.

So someone loses, in the end.

Todd23 wrote...
I'm with Pasquale on this one, making a new protagonist would be good, but only if this time they let us import data at the same time. And don't say PC VO is score one for you, keep in mind that at the end of DA2 they make it completely clear that The Warden is gone, and it is not a coincidence that Hawke is gone as well.

I don't care about Hawke. I just care about who the PC is. So long as we have VO, the odds are very low it will be the Warden, and that the Warden will feature strongly in the story (voice = no place for a silent protagonist).

PS:  If you don't want to be involved with Wardens and Darkspawn, then instead of saying they shouldn't be in DA3, you should PLAY SOMEHTHING ELSE.  Something that isn't a game based on Grey Wardens and Darkspawn. 

Yes, like DA3 which isn't based on Grey Wardens and Darkspawn. This argument doesn't even make sense. I really like the lore and the structure of the world. We'll see how Bioware handles Legacy. Maybe they'll manage to make the darkspawn interesting. They're 0-2 so far.

Modifié par In Exile, 10 juillet 2011 - 10:10 .

[phoeinx420]

KLUME777 wrote...

In Exile wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...
Why? It's not like DAO was the only modern RPG to have no voice. What about Oblivion, Fallout 3, New Vegas and upcoming Skyrim? I'm sure there are others too.

Well, we can debate the extent to which any of the Bestheda games are actually RPGs. I think they're action RPGs in the same vein as Diablo.

I atleast count New Vegas as more of an RPG than DA2, in all ways. There are more story related choices that affect the game much more than what DA2 did, traditional RPG stats play a bigger part, loot system, relationships (not romance) with companions... It may be action, but so was DA2 and ME series, New Vegas is better in every way, imo.

we are not talking bout fallout talking bout dragon age 2 ok fallout whole diffrent game own mind i aggce bring the warden i miss then so much any way fallout new vegas suck it was not that great of game just wait for Skyrim when come on the 11-11-11 that be amazing game