412 réponses à ce sujet

[Harid]

There were waves in Baldur's Gate in certain situations, Like most of the Bhaal Trials in Throne of Bhaal.

And most people consider Baldur's Gate 2 to be tactical. I really don't so eh.

[Zanallen]

Serpieri Nei wrote...

You asking a question that you already have the answer too.

Uh huh. Okay then. I'll just assume you feel that Origins was the end all be all of tactical combat. Personally, I didn't find Origins to be all that tactical, but whatever.

[TEWR]

Serpieri Nei wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Define "tactical combat".

Serpieri wrote...
I can do better than that – lets look at what combat consists of - Fight in DA2 plays out the same where
players get mobbed by enemies that pop into existence. When fighting a group, new troops literally drop out of the sky onto the party.

It`s a shame that on Nightmare it barely took 30 hours to clear it.

In DA2 - Simply watch the skies: the truth is out there 

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
That's avoiding the thing I want defined really

That explains what non-tactical combat is. But I'm asking you to define tactical.

Avoiding would be not answering - you simply don`t like the response. Would you prefer to argue semantics? Or you can accept that I believe wave combat that drops from the sky is not a tactical experience. If you feel differently, well that’s why they call that an opinion.

Fair enough. You are avoiding the question though I feel, but whatever. We can agree that DA2 isn't tactical combat. It could've been tactical with the new animations, but it wasn't. It's just that tactical combat is different for each person.

I found Origins laughably easy even on Nightmare. Not even the Harvester fight on Nightmare was difficult to me and I had only 3 potions and just kept attacking and attacking. No pause and play. As soon as I beat him though, my game froze and I couldn't get the trophy .

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 21 juin 2011 - 05:13 .

[Blood-Lord Thanatos]

Zanallen wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...

You asking a question that you already have the answer too.

Uh huh. Okay then. I'll just assume you feel that Origins was the end all be all of tactical combat. Personally, I didn't find Origins to be all that tactical, but whatever.

Well I had fun dying a couple thousand times in DA:O, same with DA2. I don't look upon death as a failure. after all, it was really merely a setback for the questing gamer.

[TEWR]

Blood-Lord Thanatos wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...

You asking a question that you already have the answer too.

Uh huh. Okay then. I'll just assume you feel that Origins was the end all be all of tactical combat. Personally, I didn't find Origins to be all that tactical, but whatever.

Well I had fun dying a couple thousand times in DA:O, same with DA2. I don't look upon death as a failure. after all, it was really merely a setback for the questing gamer.

Wait a minute! I died and was brought back to life?! My immersion is broken!

[Serpieri Nei]

Zanallen wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...

You asking a question that you already have the answer too.

Uh huh. Okay then. I'll just assume you feel that Origins was the end all be all of tactical combat. Personally, I didn't find Origins to be all that tactical, but whatever.

One should not make assumptions.

Feel free to find a post where I stated that Origins was the end all as you say.

Modifié par Serpieri Nei, 21 juin 2011 - 05:14 .

[Blood-Lord Thanatos]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Blood-Lord Thanatos wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...

You asking a question that you already have the answer too.

Uh huh. Okay then. I'll just assume you feel that Origins was the end all be all of tactical combat. Personally, I didn't find Origins to be all that tactical, but whatever.

Well I had fun dying a couple thousand times in DA:O, same with DA2. I don't look upon death as a failure. after all, it was really merely a setback for the questing gamer.

Wait a minute! I died and was brought back to life?! My immersion is broken!

think of it like in the Bard's Tale, only the Narrator decides "no, actually children, the warden's epic fight with a high dragon wasn't quite that pathetic."

[Zanallen]

Serpieri Nei wrote...

One should not make assumptions.

Feel free to find a post where I stated that Origins was the end all as you say.

The problem I am having is that you aren't saying much of anything. It seems like the only topic you care to elaborate on is how much you hated DA2.

[TEWR]

Blood-Lord Thanatos wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Blood-Lord Thanatos wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...

You asking a question that you already have the answer too.

Uh huh. Okay then. I'll just assume you feel that Origins was the end all be all of tactical combat. Personally, I didn't find Origins to be all that tactical, but whatever.

Well I had fun dying a couple thousand times in DA:O, same with DA2. I don't look upon death as a failure. after all, it was really merely a setback for the questing gamer.

Wait a minute! I died and was brought back to life?! My immersion is broken!

think of it like in the Bard's Tale, only the Narrator decides "no, actually children, the warden's epic fight with a high dragon wasn't quite that pathetic."

"Indeed, his battle was full of great vigor and lasted for many hours. It was truly an amazing battle. But he still died. The dragon ate him up."

[Realmzmaster]

Sutekh wrote...

Jaldaric wrote...

Never implied that its better and superior, and harkening more towards the old NWN1 persistant worlds, silent protag reminds me of that. Also PnP, needed some quick thinking and creative writing there!

Yep. And a good DM / ST whatever you called them / us. But that was fun.

I just find you get more content with a silent protag than VA. VA cuts out dialogue, not saying VA is bad, I quite enjoyed it for ME1/2. It fit better in that universe, VA in Dragon Age kind of sticks out like a sore thumb. Or maybe its because they're trying to be too similar to ME?

I haven't played ME, so I can't tell. Voice didn't get in the way for me in DA2, nor in the other voiced RPGs I've played recently. I play CRPG since Wizardry, and I have adapted with the tech along the way. I like progress and where it leads me.

Of course, I like the VA in DA2 (matter of taste - If I'd hated it, as it happened with another game I played recently, I would've simply replaced it mentally). I never felt it getting in the way of the RP experience. Other things did, mind, but not this one.

On an unreleated note, I love reading books. I have a whole closet full, that could be one reason I prefer a silent protag...

And so do I. Books are a different experience. No RP there, you're on rails, but I see where you're coming from.

Realmzmaster wrote...
The only reason why early CRPGS did not have a voiced protagonist was lack of technology back then. There is no such thing as a silent protagonist in a P n P session.

Well actually, in PnP sessions, voiced protagonists is all you have

Many early computers simply lacked the power to do it.
The other reason is gamers grew up playing a silent protagonist. If we had grown up playing games with a voiced protagonist this issue would not exist..
Gamers of this generation are now growing up with VO, so to them it would be strange not to have VO. Just like the graphics of early games pale in comparison to games now.
It boils down to expectations. Gamers now have different expectations.

Maybe not. You'd be surprised. People like me or my s.o. have grown up with RPGs with almost no visual and atrocious sounds, then no voice, then NPC voices and now PC voice. We've adapted along the way. I, for one, enjoyed every steps of progress. My kids, on the other hand, belong to the new gamers generation. But they're not put off by silent protagonists or even dated graphisms. My daughter plays Morrowind currently. She was five when the game came out. My CoD afficionado son likes his "old-fashioned" RPG from time to time too. And still plays Starcraft the First. He was one when the game came out.

And yes it does boil down to expectations. No-one  would expect a game with early 90's graphisms, even if it meant the most perfect and rich content of all times. No-one would buy it, or play it, except for the sake of nostalgia, maybe (I'm hyperboling, here, I know). VA is still relatively new and still needs refining. It's more complicated than better graphisms. But it is what is done now. There's no going backward, even if backward could, sometimes, in some cases, be considered a good thing.

Aaaaand... taking a look at the thread, I see it has derailed into "waves", "tactical", "recycled maps". Again. Because that's so related with VA, its merits or lack thereof, and it possibly preventing The Warden from returning.

So, guys, miss your Warden lately?

Ahh! Morrowind is an excellent game. I started playing with Akalabeth. I still own all my CRPGS from the Apple II to Atari 800 to Commodore 64 to Atari ST & Amiga and now the PC. I still play Wizardry 1-9, Rogue, Hack, Temple of Apshai. All the way to DA2.
My children (all grown) prefer games with VO.
I will have to say no to the warden. I want a new protagonist for DA3.

[Serpieri Nei]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Define "tactical combat".

Serpieri wrote...
I can do better than that – lets look at what combat consists of - Fight in DA2 plays out the same where
players get mobbed by enemies that pop into existence. When fighting a group, new troops literally drop out of the sky onto the party.

It`s a shame that on Nightmare it barely took 30 hours to clear it.

In DA2 - Simply watch the skies: the truth is out there 

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
That's avoiding the thing I want defined really

That explains what non-tactical combat is. But I'm asking you to define tactical.

Avoiding would be not answering - you simply don`t like the response. Would you prefer to argue semantics? Or you can accept that I believe wave combat that drops from the sky is not a tactical experience. If you feel differently, well that’s why they call that an opinion.

Fair enough. You are avoiding the question though I feel, but whatever. We can agree that DA2 isn't tactical combat. It could've been tactical with the new animations, but it wasn't. It's just that tactical combat is different for each person.

I found Origins laughably easy even on Nightmare. Not even the Harvester fight on Nightmare was difficult to me and I had only 3 potions and just kept attacking and attacking. No pause and play. As soon as I beat him though, my game froze and I couldn't get the trophy .

We see things differently - one can define the word tactic - but then would get lost in semantics. One either feels that it is or isn’t. And each element will be seen differently as you say. No one here is wrong or right, we all have our opinions and we express them in our own way.

Personally, I found DA2 much easier then Origins but don`t get me wrong Origin was no Demon Souls.

Modifié par Serpieri Nei, 21 juin 2011 - 05:30 .

[TEWR]

to me FFXIII was tactical. I couldn't predict what a boss would do (common enemies were for the most part easy). I was constantly changing my attack pattern. If I could've controlled the swinging of the weapons much like Kingdom Hearts lets me control Sora's attacks (to an extent) the game would've been so much better.

[Serpieri Nei]

Zanallen wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...

One should not make assumptions.

Feel free to find a post where I stated that Origins was the end all as you say.

The problem I am having is that you aren't saying much of anything. It seems like the only topic you care to elaborate on is how much you hated DA2.

And there lies your problem. I don’t hate it nor do I love it. I find it to be mediocre.  

Modifié par Serpieri Nei, 21 juin 2011 - 05:37 .

[Zanallen]

Serpieri Nei wrote...

And there lies your problem. I don’t hate it nor do I love it. I find it to be mediocre.  

From the posts that I have read of yours, you are oddly passionate about a game that you feel is mediocre.

[Blood-Lord Thanatos]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Blood-Lord Thanatos wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Blood-Lord Thanatos wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...

You asking a question that you already have the answer too.

Uh huh. Okay then. I'll just assume you feel that Origins was the end all be all of tactical combat. Personally, I didn't find Origins to be all that tactical, but whatever.

Well I had fun dying a couple thousand times in DA:O, same with DA2. I don't look upon death as a failure. after all, it was really merely a setback for the questing gamer.

Wait a minute! I died and was brought back to life?! My immersion is broken!

think of it like in the Bard's Tale, only the Narrator decides "no, actually children, the warden's epic fight with a high dragon wasn't quite that pathetic."

"Indeed, his battle was full of great vigor and lasted for many hours. It was truly an amazing battle. But he still died. The dragon ate him up."

hehe.
"and for all the adults present, no he did not curse or call the maker a pink hairless bunny, ultimately, the heroes triumphed, only for alistair and Leliana to complain that the dragon's hoard did not include ferelden cheeses or stylish shoes"

[Faust1979]

 It would be better if we heard about the warden instead of actually seeing them depending on the circumstance anyways. That way  they don't have to worry about alot of stuff or give them a voice or some lame back story of why they've shown up again. Heck one of my wardens went off and traveled the world at the end it's more fun to imagine what they are doing than having another game tell us. It's one of the reason why I think the character should be left alone

[Realmzmaster]

Question: How are the battles in DA2 non-tactical? How are waves non-tactical? If I am not wrong Tactics is the art and science of fighting battles to obtain goals set by strategy. Wave combat forces one to change their tactics not the overall strategy.
Just like paratroopers dropping on an enemy objective forces a change in tactics by forcing the enemy to deal with the new threat. It does not change the overall strategy of securing the objective.

[Blood-Lord Thanatos]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Question: How are the battles in DA2 non-tactical? How are waves non-tactical? If I am not wrong Tactics is the art and science of fighting battles to obtain goals set by strategy. Wave combat forces one to change their tactics not the overall strategy.
Just like paratroopers dropping on an enemy objective forces a change in tactics by forcing the enemy to deal with the new threat. It does not change the overall strategy of securing the objective.

since we don't know if they are jumping from the roofs, I'm inclined to be believe a mage accidentaly cast Icarian Flight on them.

[Realmzmaster]

Blood-Lord Thanatos wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Question: How are the battles in DA2 non-tactical? How are waves non-tactical? If I am not wrong Tactics is the art and science of fighting battles to obtain goals set by strategy. Wave combat forces one to change their tactics not the overall strategy.
Just like paratroopers dropping on an enemy objective forces a change in tactics by forcing the enemy to deal with the new threat. It does not change the overall strategy of securing the objective.

since we don't know if they are jumping from the roofs, I'm inclined to be believe a mage accidentaly cast Icarian Flight on them.

You did not see the tiny little parachutes? Actually each has a scroll of free fall.

[TEWR]

I assumed they all knew parkour and were trying to get the proper rolling landing technique down perfectly. They didn't, sad to say. They failed so badly that gravity forgot to injure them.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 21 juin 2011 - 05:55 .

[Realmzmaster]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I assumed they all knew parkour and were trying to get the proper rolling landing technique down perfectly. They didn't, sad to say. They failed so badly that gravity forgot to injure them.

It is a fanatsy world. They simply suspend the law of gravity around them.

[KLUME777]

Atakuma wrote...

thenemesis77 wrote...

Aradace wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

If DA3 has Hawke as main character, I'm not gonna do anything more than buy the game pre-owned. Bioware's getting none of my money.
And if they have a new protagonist that has a dialogue wheel and voice, I'm buying it pre-owned, because Bioware's not getting my money.
But if they either have a new protagonist that is silent, or they bring back the Warden, then I will Pre-order the Collectors edition.

Just lettin' you know, Bioware, i think there are a lot of other people out there who agree with me, even it they don't frequent this site...

Guess you're going to be buying the game pre-owned lol.  I can say with %100 certainty that you WILL NOT be getting your silent protagonist back.  See the link in my sig if you want to know what I think about you folks pining and whining about not getting your silent hero back.  

Just get over it, seriously.  Either buy the game pre-owned as you said you were going to or dont play the game at all.  You have a %0 probability of getting either your Warden or a new silent protag back.  The End.  Period.  End of Story.  Move.  The.  F***.  On!!

You sure think you know your ****........so full of it, you work for BioWare? I just love your kind, the same way you love our kind. I would love to meet you, I bet we woudl really get along........

Despite being a jerk about it, Aradace is right that they aren't going to go back to a silent PC, Mike laidlaw has said as much.

Confirmation? Mike Laidlaw!? Noooooooo!

[Faust1979]

There is one ending they could clear up. Did anyone else get this ending?

After killing the arch demon Morrigan is hurt and the Warden is knocked out and the warden is taken to an inn to recover. Alistair is there when the warden wakes up. He asks how Morrigan is and learns she is doing good. The warden has to brush his teeth and goes into the bathroom. he squeezes all the toothpaste into the sink then rams his head into the mirror and starts laughing crazily. We see the face of the arch demon peering at him showing that the warden has become possessed then the credits start

[Serpieri Nei]

Zanallen wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...

And there lies your problem. I don’t hate it nor do I love it. I find it to be mediocre.  

From the posts that I have read of yours, you are oddly passionate about a game that you feel is mediocre.

What`s odd about that?

If I hated DA2 I would simply move on. If I loved DA2 I would be playing it still. Or should people just accept products that are moderate or inferior in quality?

Modifié par Serpieri Nei, 21 juin 2011 - 06:08 .

[Blood-Lord Thanatos]

Faust1979 wrote...

There is one ending they could clear up. Did anyone else get this ending?

After killing the arch demon Morrigan is hurt and the Warden is knocked out and the warden is taken to an inn to recover. Alistair is there when the warden wakes up. He asks how Morrigan is and learns she is doing good. The warden has to brush his teeth and goes into the bathroom. he squeezes all the toothpaste into the sink then rams his head into the mirror and starts laughing crazily. We see the face of the arch demon peering at him showing that the warden has become possessed then the credits start

*semi-serious voice*
never got that ending, must have been a Collector (err, a bug, i mean) in my game.