75 réponses à ce sujet

[Ace of Dawn]

ChristianSoldier wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Plasma isn't light and it isn't solid, so I don't know what you mean by that. Plasma is a collection of loose, ionised particles, and it's an entirely seperate state of matter from solidity. By definition it cannot be solid.

As for why the omnitool can be "solid" and affect solid objects, here's a quote from the codex:

"Omni-tools are handheld devices that combine a computer microframe, sensor analysis pack, and minifacturing fabricator. Versatile and reliable, an omni-tool can be used to analyze and adjust the functionality of most standard equipment, including weapons and armor, from a distance.

The fabrication module can rapidly assemble small three-dimensional objects from common, reusable industrial plastics, ceramics, and light alloys. This allows for field repairs and modifications to most standard items, as well as the reuse of salvaged equipment and applying medicine from stimulants to medi-gel. "

Most computers in the Mass Effect universe use haptic holographic interfaces, which means they can impart a sense of touch to the user despite being projections. The omnitool is just like that. With the existence of mass effect fields, it's not a stretch to conclude that the haptics are provided by the creation of small mass effect forcefields.

The asari don't have eyebrows (except Liara, but hers are presumably painted on). The rest is obvious - they're references to Green Space Babes of classic sci-fi.

Plasma can be solid. I saw the Stars Wars Sci Fi exclusive on Science or History channel and one of the scientists said that lightsabers would be made out of plasma. And I thought Omni tools were made out of light....  Anyways the scientists dismissed light because they would just pass each other. But plasma can be solidified at a certain  hot temperature.

No. Plasma in it of itself is the fourth state of matter. To say it can be solid would mean it is no longer plasma but a solid. Also, they way you stated your final sentence is also contradictory. Adding more energy (in this scenario, increasing the temperature) causes all solids to become liquids (Sort of, anyway. The phase points of a substance are dependant on pressure and temperature, with even more variables present).

In short. No. Plasma cannot be a solid. That's more or less like saying you can pour ice. No, only when it is in its liquid state, where it is no longer ice.

As for the temperature thing, you're basically saying that at a certain temperature, a flame will become solid.

[streamlock]

There is some fairly recent work, I believe being done at the university of Melbourne and Cambridge university that theorizes that light can behave like a solid. Essentially the light forms a 'crystal', or undergoes a phase change. At this point the light repels each other like charged electrons would. IIRC, the researches believe this 'solid' light could be used for computing purposes. Though kinda counter-intuitive, I think this area of research is classified under 'condensed matter physics'.

Additionally, photons have mass, and interact with objects to create what is referred to as "radiative pressure". Make an analogy of a ball bouncing off a wall (if we are viewing a photon from a particle standpoint, and not the wave-though it is technically both). The ball bounces off the wall and transfers some portion of kinetic energy to the wall, and creates pressure. The light will to some extent freely pass through to some depth, other quanta are absorbed then re-emmited. But a certain quantaty of the light will be reflected and a force exerted just like the ball. The forces involved are usually in the piconewton range, and not very useful for any kind of everyday application-but physicists use these interaction to levitate single particles or even large single molecules. Do a literature search on "light tweezers". Strangely I think I read a paper were the levetated a particle by shinning light from above it-which is totally strange. So at some level they interact with matter as matter would.....sorta.

Anyway, I don't think it could be classified as a 'story' flaw per se.

Modifié par streamlock, 18 juin 2011 - 03:50 .

[ChristianSoldier]

Darkeus wrote...

The Star Wars documentary said it?? Really??

Funniest thing I have seen all night!!! Come on man!!

The funny things that are argued on these forums....

Sighhhhh I knew some ppl were just too ignorant. I guess i have to be really specific.

Star Wars TECH documentary on History Channel.



^ This will answer the question of why i dont understand how omni tools are made out of light.

At 8:51 it talkes about the lightsaber which relates to the omnitool topic.

[Reapinger]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

Well the light one has been answered so many times...as for the second one:
It's not so uncommon scientists think that there is a possibility that aliens look a lot like humans, and besides its fiction, they can't make everything 100% realistic obviously

With similar environments for life, one would expect similar evolutionary patterns I guess. We both breathe oxygen and drink water to survive. Both use the same DNA structure (unlike Turians/Quarians), and both need water to survive. We also both need sexual reproduction and a way to transfer immunities and antibodies and nutrients to our babies. MOAR BOOBS 

[ChristianSoldier]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

ChristianSoldier wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Plasma isn't light and it isn't solid, so I don't know what you mean by that. Plasma is a collection of loose, ionised particles, and it's an entirely seperate state of matter from solidity. By definition it cannot be solid.

As for why the omnitool can be "solid" and affect solid objects, here's a quote from the codex:

"Omni-tools are handheld devices that combine a computer microframe, sensor analysis pack, and minifacturing fabricator. Versatile and reliable, an omni-tool can be used to analyze and adjust the functionality of most standard equipment, including weapons and armor, from a distance.

The fabrication module can rapidly assemble small three-dimensional objects from common, reusable industrial plastics, ceramics, and light alloys. This allows for field repairs and modifications to most standard items, as well as the reuse of salvaged equipment and applying medicine from stimulants to medi-gel. "

Most computers in the Mass Effect universe use haptic holographic interfaces, which means they can impart a sense of touch to the user despite being projections. The omnitool is just like that. With the existence of mass effect fields, it's not a stretch to conclude that the haptics are provided by the creation of small mass effect forcefields.

The asari don't have eyebrows (except Liara, but hers are presumably painted on). The rest is obvious - they're references to Green Space Babes of classic sci-fi.

Plasma can be solid. I saw the Stars Wars Sci Fi exclusive on Science or History channel and one of the scientists said that lightsabers would be made out of plasma. And I thought Omni tools were made out of light....  Anyways the scientists dismissed light because they would just pass each other. But plasma can be solidified at a certain  hot temperature.

No. Plasma in it of itself is the fourth state of matter. To say it can be solid would mean it is no longer plasma but a solid. Also, they way you stated your final sentence is also contradictory. Adding more energy (in this scenario, increasing the temperature) causes all solids to become liquids (Sort of, anyway. The phase points of a substance are dependant on pressure and temperature, with even more variables present).

In short. No. Plasma cannot be a solid. That's more or less like saying you can pour ice. No, only when it is in its liquid state, where it is no longer ice.

As for the temperature thing, you're basically saying that at a certain temperature, a flame will become solid.

8:51 will explain everything clearly about candidates for the lightsaber and IN OUR CASE OR ME'S CASE THE OMNITOOL.

[ChristianSoldier]

Darkeus wrote...

Oh God, don't feed the trolls...

^ This documentary pal 8:51 for lightsaber which relates to our omnitool topic.

[ChristianSoldier]

Conclusion:

1) Omni tools are made of micro robots(best candidate).

2) No good answer yet.

[Ace of Dawn]

ChristianSoldier wrote...

Ace of Dawn wrote...

ChristianSoldier wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Plasma isn't light and it isn't solid, so I don't know what you mean by that. Plasma is a collection of loose, ionised particles, and it's an entirely seperate state of matter from solidity. By definition it cannot be solid.

As for why the omnitool can be "solid" and affect solid objects, here's a quote from the codex:

"Omni-tools are handheld devices that combine a computer microframe, sensor analysis pack, and minifacturing fabricator. Versatile and reliable, an omni-tool can be used to analyze and adjust the functionality of most standard equipment, including weapons and armor, from a distance.

The fabrication module can rapidly assemble small three-dimensional objects from common, reusable industrial plastics, ceramics, and light alloys. This allows for field repairs and modifications to most standard items, as well as the reuse of salvaged equipment and applying medicine from stimulants to medi-gel. "

Most computers in the Mass Effect universe use haptic holographic interfaces, which means they can impart a sense of touch to the user despite being projections. The omnitool is just like that. With the existence of mass effect fields, it's not a stretch to conclude that the haptics are provided by the creation of small mass effect forcefields.

The asari don't have eyebrows (except Liara, but hers are presumably painted on). The rest is obvious - they're references to Green Space Babes of classic sci-fi.

Plasma can be solid. I saw the Stars Wars Sci Fi exclusive on Science or History channel and one of the scientists said that lightsabers would be made out of plasma. And I thought Omni tools were made out of light....  Anyways the scientists dismissed light because they would just pass each other. But plasma can be solidified at a certain  hot temperature.

No. Plasma in it of itself is the fourth state of matter. To say it can be solid would mean it is no longer plasma but a solid. Also, they way you stated your final sentence is also contradictory. Adding more energy (in this scenario, increasing the temperature) causes all solids to become liquids (Sort of, anyway. The phase points of a substance are dependant on pressure and temperature, with even more variables present).

In short. No. Plasma cannot be a solid. That's more or less like saying you can pour ice. No, only when it is in its liquid state, where it is no longer ice.

As for the temperature thing, you're basically saying that at a certain temperature, a flame will become solid.

8:51 will explain everything clearly about candidates for the lightsaber and IN OUR CASE OR ME'S CASE THE OMNITOOL.

It doesn't really relate to the topic at all, really. The lightsaber has an attribute an Omni-tool typically does not: heat. If it is plasma, then it is hot. Even "cold" plasma is a relative term and still generates ridiculous amounts of heat. However, the Omni-tool displays simply hard-features, no heat like effect.

One other flaw with bringing Star Wars into this:

http://tvtropes.org/...FictionHardness

While both Star Wars and Mass Effect are technically science fiction, Mass Effect emphasizes more science and Star Wars emphasizes "fantasy with science". The Mass Effect universe is more or less bound to the laws of nature as we understand them, and do not in fact break anything. The Star Wars universe is more or less the legends of King Arthur with a futuristic paint job on them. They do not need any sort of real justification in their function.

Mass Effect has the titular mass effect fields and element zero, which while not actually existant, are effects and substances that while leaps in themselves, still follow the laws as we know them. Using them to increase the mass of light so they actually have form is perfectly allowable based on the technology present.

There is no flaw. The applied phlebotinum easily handles the issue.

[Timinator]

There's really no good explanation why both the Asari and Quarians both have front and back end eye candy so to speak.

The light thing is just a sci-fi tripe, if I was to question anything it would be the mass effect fields themselves. 

Modifié par Timinator, 18 juin 2011 - 04:15 .

[ChristianSoldier]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

ChristianSoldier wrote...

Ace of Dawn wrote...

ChristianSoldier wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Plasma isn't light and it isn't solid, so I don't know what you mean by that. Plasma is a collection of loose, ionised particles, and it's an entirely seperate state of matter from solidity. By definition it cannot be solid.

As for why the omnitool can be "solid" and affect solid objects, here's a quote from the codex:

"Omni-tools are handheld devices that combine a computer microframe, sensor analysis pack, and minifacturing fabricator. Versatile and reliable, an omni-tool can be used to analyze and adjust the functionality of most standard equipment, including weapons and armor, from a distance.

The fabrication module can rapidly assemble small three-dimensional objects from common, reusable industrial plastics, ceramics, and light alloys. This allows for field repairs and modifications to most standard items, as well as the reuse of salvaged equipment and applying medicine from stimulants to medi-gel. "

Most computers in the Mass Effect universe use haptic holographic interfaces, which means they can impart a sense of touch to the user despite being projections. The omnitool is just like that. With the existence of mass effect fields, it's not a stretch to conclude that the haptics are provided by the creation of small mass effect forcefields.

The asari don't have eyebrows (except Liara, but hers are presumably painted on). The rest is obvious - they're references to Green Space Babes of classic sci-fi.

Plasma can be solid. I saw the Stars Wars Sci Fi exclusive on Science or History channel and one of the scientists said that lightsabers would be made out of plasma. And I thought Omni tools were made out of light....  Anyways the scientists dismissed light because they would just pass each other. But plasma can be solidified at a certain  hot temperature.

No. Plasma in it of itself is the fourth state of matter. To say it can be solid would mean it is no longer plasma but a solid. Also, they way you stated your final sentence is also contradictory. Adding more energy (in this scenario, increasing the temperature) causes all solids to become liquids (Sort of, anyway. The phase points of a substance are dependant on pressure and temperature, with even more variables present).

In short. No. Plasma cannot be a solid. That's more or less like saying you can pour ice. No, only when it is in its liquid state, where it is no longer ice.

As for the temperature thing, you're basically saying that at a certain temperature, a flame will become solid.

8:51 will explain everything clearly about candidates for the lightsaber and IN OUR CASE OR ME'S CASE THE OMNITOOL.

It doesn't really relate to the topic at all, really. The lightsaber has an attribute an Omni-tool typically does not: heat. If it is plasma, then it is hot. Even "cold" plasma is a relative term and still generates ridiculous amounts of heat. However, the Omni-tool displays simply hard-features, no heat like effect.

One other flaw with bringing Star Wars into this:

http://tvtropes.org/...FictionHardness

While both Star Wars and Mass Effect are technically science fiction, Mass Effect emphasizes more science and Star Wars emphasizes "fantasy with science". The Mass Effect universe is more or less bound to the laws of nature as we understand them, and do not in fact break anything. The Star Wars universe is more or less the legends of King Arthur with a futuristic paint job on them. They do not need any sort of real justification in their function.

Mass Effect has the titular mass effect fields and element zero, which while not actually existant, are effects and substances that while leaps in themselves, still follow the laws as we know them. Using them to increase the mass of light so they actually have form is perfectly allowable based on the technology present.

There is no flaw. The applied phlebotinum easily handles the issue.

So if the omni tool does not have heat, then what is it made of? How is the omni tool be able to stab someone physically?

Mass Effect does not exist. How does mass effect follow the laws of science when it is nonexistant? Because mass effect is nonexistant how can i believe that a mass light can be "shaped". Documentary clearly states that light is infinite unless it is absorbed or reflected.

Many ppl talk about how light becomes a solid if its concentrated. That is not true, light becomes a laser. Lasers dont cut.

[ChristianSoldier]

Timinator wrote...

There's really no good explanation why both the Asari and Quarians both have front and back end eye candy so to speak.

The light thing is just a sci-fi tripe, if I was to question anything it would be the mass effect fields themselves. 

I will go into that with my Mass Effect "Universe" Flaw 3.0 tmr or maybe tonight.

[Inspectre]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Also, I'd like to point out that neither of these are "story flaws".

To you, maybe.  Some of us just like a little realism, is all.

[ChristianSoldier]

Dragon XIX wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Also, I'd like to point out that neither of these are "story flaws".

To you, maybe.  Some of us just like a little realism, is all.

I agree with that quote. I should rename this thread Mass effect Universe Flaw. But ill do that for 3.0

[Bogsnot1]

ChristianSoldier wrote...

1) I do not understand the omnitool. It is light solidified. Light cannot be a solid. The only light that i know that can be a solid is plasma.

Its a personal Haptic Adaptiev Interface, not solid light.

2) Why do asaris have eyebrows, eyes, nose, mouth, boobs? Basically why are asaris physically similar to human females? The only difference is that asaris are blue with tentacles on the back of their heads. I find it hard to believe.

Listen to the bachelor party Eternity in Illium.

When ME3 cmoes out, I suggest you pay attention to what goes on, and you wont have to ask stupid questions.

[Ace of Dawn]

ChristianSoldier wrote...

So if the omni tool does not have heat, then what is it made of? How is the omni tool be able to stab someone physically?

Mass Effect does not exist. How does mass effect follow the laws of science when it is nonexistant? Because mass effect is nonexistant how can i believe that a mass light can be "shaped". Documentary clearly states that light is infinite unless it is absorbed or reflected.

Many ppl talk about how light becomes a solid if its concentrated. That is not true, light becomes a laser. Lasers dont cut.

The fundamental flaw with your argument is that you are taking a fictional universe and applying it to ours. You can't. That's it. End of story. In Mass Effect, there is a universe much like ours with one exception: They have element zero. The funny thing about laws is that they are not in fact carved in stone. They can be true up until a point, when an exception arises. In our universe, that is when you pass the event horizon of a black hole. I can't think of any other example. In Mass Effect, that's when element zero kicks in.

Let me try another away. Hundreds of years ago, the forms of technology we currently have would be laughable dreams. Fiction. Impossible. They would appear to have no grounds in reality, and indeed, break the fundamental ways we think the world works. Then we made discoveries, innovations, and inventions. Element Zero is that advancement.

Really, it's becoming quite clear you're arguing for arguments sake. You cannot try and take the idea of mass effect out of Mass Effect, because it's a central idea. It's the suspension of disbelief you must make in this universe. Asking how something works in *their* universe and saying it can't work that way since it doesn't work like that in *our* universe ignores the fact that it is their universe. You are watching Star Wars and asking how they can move objects with their minds. I would say the Force, and you say no because *we* don't have the Force.

[ChristianSoldier]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Plasma isn't light and it isn't solid, so I don't know what you mean by that. Plasma is a collection of loose, ionised particles, and it's an entirely seperate state of matter from solidity. By definition it cannot be solid.

As for why the omnitool can be "solid" and affect solid objects, here's a quote from the codex:

"Omni-tools are handheld devices that combine a computer microframe, sensor analysis pack, and minifacturing fabricator. Versatile and reliable, an omni-tool can be used to analyze and adjust the functionality of most standard equipment, including weapons and armor, from a distance.

The fabrication module can rapidly assemble small three-dimensional objects from common, reusable industrial plastics, ceramics, and light alloys. This allows for field repairs and modifications to most standard items, as well as the reuse of salvaged equipment and applying medicine from stimulants to medi-gel. "

Most computers in the Mass Effect universe use haptic holographic interfaces, which means they can impart a sense of touch to the user despite being projections. The omnitool is just like that. With the existence of mass effect fields, it's not a stretch to conclude that the haptics are provided by the creation of small mass effect forcefields.

The asari don't have eyebrows (except Liara, but hers are presumably painted on). The rest is obvious - they're references to Green Space Babes of classic sci-fi.

Well I was trying to explain plasma from that documentary which i messed up. If you're curious here it is:



^ 8:51 for lightsaber which relates to omni tool. To be more specific. Plasma is a fourth kind of matter. And when its at a certain temperature, it can cut almost anything.

To get back to your post. I agree with the omni tool post. I find that believable. So the omni tool is basically made out of mini robots?

I do not find mass effect fields to be realistic. But ill leave that for my 3.0 thread.

Asaris are just in ME cuz of Sci Fi tradition.

[Kusy]

Science Fiction... but sometimes it's too hard to read past the first word and notice there's "fiction" there too.

[ChristianSoldier]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

ChristianSoldier wrote...

So if the omni tool does not have heat, then what is it made of? How is the omni tool be able to stab someone physically?

Mass Effect does not exist. How does mass effect follow the laws of science when it is nonexistant? Because mass effect is nonexistant how can i believe that a mass light can be "shaped". Documentary clearly states that light is infinite unless it is absorbed or reflected.

Many ppl talk about how light becomes a solid if its concentrated. That is not true, light becomes a laser. Lasers dont cut.

The fundamental flaw with your argument is that you are taking a fictional universe and applying it to ours. You can't. That's it. End of story. In Mass Effect, there is a universe much like ours with one exception: They have element zero. The funny thing about laws is that they are not in fact carved in stone. They can be true up until a point, when an exception arises. In our universe, that is when you pass the event horizon of a black hole. I can't think of any other example. In Mass Effect, that's when element zero kicks in.

Let me try another away. Hundreds of years ago, the forms of technology we currently have would be laughable dreams. Fiction. Impossible. They would appear to have no grounds in reality, and indeed, break the fundamental ways we think the world works. Then we made discoveries, innovations, and inventions. Element Zero is that advancement.

Really, it's becoming quite clear you're arguing for arguments sake. You cannot try and take the idea of mass effect out of Mass Effect, because it's a central idea. It's the suspension of disbelief you must make in this universe. Asking how something works in *their* universe and saying it can't work that way since it doesn't work like that in *our* universe ignores the fact that it is their universe. You are watching Star Wars and asking how they can move objects with their minds. I would say the Force, and you say no because *we* don't have the Force.

Actually it is possble to move objects with the mind. But ill leave that for ME universe flaw 3.0.

The only explanation i can make from the omni tool is that the tool is made out of micro robots.

[ObserverStatus]

ChristianSoldier wrote...

1) I do not understand the omnitool. It is light solidified. Light cannot be a solid. The only light that i know that can be a solid is plasma.

2) Why do asaris have eyebrows, eyes, nose, mouth, boobs? Basically why are asaris physically similar to human females? The only difference is that asaris are blue with tentacles on the back of their heads. I find it hard to believe.

1) It is not light solidified.  The light is mereley an indicator for invisible mass effect force fields.  Also, plama is not solid light, it's ionized gas.

2) Because Bioware has limited resources and animating human-like aliens is cheaper than animating less human looking aliens.

[ChristianSoldier]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

Science Fiction... but sometimes it's too hard to read past the first word and notice there's "fiction" there too.

I guess that word simply puts my questions to rest.

"ITS FICTION FFS!!!"

[Kusy]

My point is, it's better to enjoy the game, it's great universe and stop nitpicking on some absolutely fuzzy details. What next? You start pointing out Fantasy games make no sense because magic does not exist?

[ChristianSoldier]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

My point is, it's better to enjoy the game, it's great universe and stop nitpicking on some absolutely fuzzy details. What next? You start pointing out Fantasy games make no sense because magic does not exist?

I nitpick on Mass Effect because it is based on science. Fantasy is... i dont know what its based on so.... i dont know.

[Kusy]

You nitpick on everything becaue youre just annoying. And to enlighten you, Fantasy is usualy based on mythology and medieval setting.