41 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKillerAngel]

There can be a separate module for leveling and customizing ammo skills. It would still be in the skill menu, but if you select it, it expands into a window that lists all the available powers and their details. Ammo skills would get their own separate set of skill points to use, and every class would get the same number of ammo skill points. This allows all classes to tailor their ammunition choices.

Now, if this were added to every single character - squadmates included - it might mean the removal of "squad" ammo powers, since every person would be able to use whatever ammo they liked. It would also eliminate the uniqueness of some ammo powers that are reserved for specific characters.

That said, it would mean soldiers would need more abilities. Here are ideas:

Tech Shield

What this does: Using the omni tool, the soldier generates a shield that can act as mobile cover. It is very similar to a riot shield and is essentially like the shields the Shadow Broker and Cerberus infantry use. Since it must be generated and carried by the omni tool, it can only be used with a pistol or submachinegun. It can be upgraded in a variety of ways. One method of upgrading it turns it into a melee weapon that can you can use to smash or ram enemies, upon which it overload shields and stuns/shocks them. Another gives it the ability to suspend incoming projectiles and deflect them back at the enemy.

Motivation

What this does: By inspiring his/her companions in combat, Shepard improves the team's effectiveness. This is a skill that, when activated, can be tailored to significantly reduce skill recharge times, health/shield regeneraton, reduce incoming damage, increase weapon/skill damage, movement speed, accuracy, etc.

Nanite Armor

What this does: Once Shepard's shields are depleted, incoming rounds activate a nanocrystalline defensive matrix that is built into the armor, adding an additional "armor" defensive layer while significantly reducing damage (think of the Crysis Nanosuit armor mode). Qualities such as duration, % damage reduction, and armor durability can be customized.

Modifié par TheKillerAngel, 18 juin 2011 - 04:16 .

[Virginian]

So Shep had 2 ammo powers assuming you don't get one from a squaddie and you want to give that to everyone and only give Shep one ability in return?

Quit screwing the Soldier class.

[Vicex]

Yeah, now that all the classes can use any weapon, the soldier class is not as appealing anymore. Sure it has it's own special attack and can hold all the weapons at once (I think), but that is not much of an incentive.

*Edit*

As for the 'Tech Shield', it would be a nice idea for an Engineer, but the Soldier's iconic weapon is an assualt rifle, it just would not fit well.

Having ammunition powers seems a more viable option for a Soldier to have.

Modifié par Vicex, 18 juin 2011 - 03:53 .

[TheKillerAngel]

Virginian wrote...

So Shep had 2 ammo powers assuming you don't get one from a squaddie and you want to give that to everyone and only give Shep one ability in return?

Quit screwing the Soldier class.

Try reading the whole thread, because I said that soldiers would need more skills if this were done (I suggested one). Perhaps you can be a bit creative and think of some skills Soldiers could use?

And I like the soldier class a lot, thank you very much.

Modifié par TheKillerAngel, 18 juin 2011 - 03:53 .

[MonkeyLungs]

Ammo "powers" are the dumbest thing ever. These should still be attachments/alterations to the weapons just like in ME1.

[TheKillerAngel]

I think being able to change the ammunition type of your weapon in realtime is better than having to go to a bench to mod that.

[Someone With Mass]

You know, if it wasn't for regenerating enemies, I could do just fine without any ammo mod/power whatsoever.

And I'm glad they're powers, because then I don't have to waste a mod slot on them.

[MonkeyLungs]

I shouldn't have even posted in this thread. I'm sorry I'm going to leave ... I hate ammo powers very very much.

[TheKillerAngel]

I added more skill concepts.

[Smeelia]

I don't really mind ammo powers but I do think they could have been better implemented.  I suppose my main problem with them was in how they're activated, turning them on for every weapon wasn't great (although you could tailor each weapon for specific roles, I usually had incendiary ammo on my Pistol and Disruptor ammo on my Sniper Rifle) and trying to sort out a group when you had multiple ammo powers (some individual and some squad) and different weapons was a bit too fussy.

I kind of like the suggestion of letting Soldiers buff their team with powers (that's sort of how ammo powers work if you choose the Squad ones anyway).

[Dannyboy9876]

Ammo Powers? idc tbh

Soldier isn't as appealing anymore, when all classes can use all weapons, so his grenades better be epic. And his health.

[JockBuster]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

Ammo "powers" are the dumbest thing ever. These should still be attachments/alterations to the weapons just like in ME1.

YES! and bring back High EXPLOSIVE rounds. Wrex and his shotgun with HE was fantastic, one shot "whoomph" and "burn, baby burn."

Modifié par JockBuster, 18 juin 2011 - 05:01 .

[Cancer Puppet]

I primarily use the soldier becuase I just preffer shooting to tech/biotic attacks. That's what I have a squad for. That said, ammo powers are lame. If they're going to be a power then put them all under one skill tree so I don't have to waste points on more than one type. Inferno is all you really need anyway imo.


With all classes having access to all weapon types (of which I approve) , the soldier needa something else to set him apart. Now as I understand it, ammo powers also affect concussive shot. That is a soldier specific power, but the way it's been described makes it sound as though we'll basically be getting incinerate, cryo-blast, and overload. That's cool, but I don't want tech powers for my soldier.

So what ability should the soldier receive to differentiate it from the others? I can't claim to have the answer to that. All I can do is make suggestions.

Really the only idea I have is an ability I call Attrition. You and your squad all pop out of cover and unleash a three second, full-auto barrage on a single target. Devestatingly powerful, but leaves everyone completely exposed. Risk & reward.

[Smeelia]

Cancer Puppet wrote...

I primarily use the soldier becuase I just preffer shooting to tech/biotic attacks. That's what I have a squad for. That said, ammo powers are lame. If they're going to be a power then put them all under one skill tree so I don't have to waste points on more than one type. Inferno is all you really need anyway imo.

I often end up just using disruptor ammo, it overheats enemy weapons (although the effect isn't always noticeable) and armoured targets are generally not that much of a problem.  It's probably not the easiest way but it works for most situations, even on Insanity.

Cancer Puppet wrote...

Really the only idea I have is an ability I call Attrition. You and your squad all pop out of cover and unleash a three second, full-auto barrage on a single target. Devestatingly powerful, but leaves everyone completely exposed. Risk & reward.

Sort of like a team version of Adrenaline Rush? That sounds reasonable, it would tie into the idea of the Soldier class working as more of a squad (and self, you could maybe choose which to focus on) buffing team leader type.  I don't think I'd call it "Attrition" though (that implies slow and gradual killing over a period of time), maybe something like "Focused Fire".

Modifié par Smeelia, 18 juin 2011 - 05:27 .

[Praetor Knight]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

Tech Shield

What this does: Using the omni tool, the soldier generates a shield that can act as mobile cover. It is very similar to a riot shield and is essentially like the shields the Shadow Broker and Cerberus infantry use. Since it must be generated and carried by the omni tool, it can only be used with a pistol or submachinegun. It can be upgraded in a variety of ways. One method of upgrading it turns it into a melee weapon that can you can use to smash or ram enemies, upon which it overload shields and stuns/shocks them. Another gives it the ability to suspend incoming projectiles and deflect them back at the enemy.

This I'd like for the Soldier, but I would separate this from ammo powers and connect it with the Soldier's special melee attack instead of using the omniblade.

I'd rather have another class use the omniblade, particularly the Sentinel with its Tech Armor. It just seems to synergize well, and even reminds me of Starcraft Zealots!

Motivation

What this does: By inspiring his/her companions in combat, Shepard improves the team's effectiveness. This is a skill that, when activated, can be tailored to significantly reduce skill recharge times, health/shield regeneraton, reduce incoming damage, increase weapon/skill damage, movement speed, accuracy, etc.

Nah, I'd rather not have something like this for the Soldier class. Medi-Gel works well enough to revive fallen companions, IMHO.

Nanite Armor

What this does: Once Shepard's shields are depleted, incoming rounds activate a nanocrystalline defensive matrix that is built into the armor, adding an additional "armor" defensive layer while significantly reducing damage (think of the Crysis Nanosuit armor mode). Qualities such as duration, % damage reduction, and armor durability can be customized.

I'd rather keep the Sentinel with it's Tech Armor, and leave the Nanosuit with Crysis, even with how neat the concept of the armor is.

And Fortification seems similar enough to this concept too... well except for how it worked in ME2 gameplay.




I've played the soldier class the most and if the class only gets that grenade power in ME3 I'd still be happy playing the soldier because I get to carry around more weapons anyway, so I wouldn't need more powers anyway (even if Adrenaline Rush is less effective).

And walking around with a Tech Shield would be cool IMHO, firing away with the Predator

[Cancer Puppet]

@smeelia

3 seconds is a long time when you're being shot at.

[TheKillerAngel]

Any more thoughts?

[Sgt Stryker]

The thing that bugs me about ammo powers is, why do you need specialized training to switch out one ammo block for another in your gun? For example, why is it that only SoldierShep, InfiltratorShep, and Zaeed can use disruptor ammo? (Unless you upgrade to the squad ammo version, which opens up another can of worms) Should I just treat this as yet another gameplay/lore disconnect?

[MonkeyLungs]

Well since they retconned AND ruined the way weapons worked ... damn it, I'm sorry guys I'm leaving again.

[Wolf_in_the_Meadow]

Yeah, the reason they gave for the thermal clip change made no sense... so... I'm assuming it's no longer an actual physical change but rather something you do with... the anti-stealth holograms on the guns... or a customised mass effect field...

[Nimander]

Sgt Stryker wrote...
The thing that bugs me about ammo powers is, why do you need specialized training to switch out one ammo block for another in your gun? For example, why is it that only SoldierShep, InfiltratorShep, and Zaeed can use disruptor ammo? (Unless you upgrade to the squad ammo version, which opens up another can of worms) Should I just treat this as yet another gameplay/lore disconnect?

I think it does make sense .. sometimes.

Take tabletop RPGs.  Way back when D20 Modern came out, there was a huge furor over the autofire rules.  'But if the gun has autofire, you should be able to use it without having the feat!  The gun has autofire, after all!'  (Something like that anyway, it's been a while!)  People who actually used this said that you actually had to have training to use it properly.  Armchair RPGers got upset because Reality is Unrealistic (Thanks, TVTropes!)

SOME types of Ammo make sense under this logic.  Inferno for sure.  I bet igniting ammunition could do weird things to recoil.  Maybe Disruptor depending on how it works.  Warp of course, as it's a biotic talent and all.

But ... not Armor Piercing and Shredder.

(And of course, it breaks down with Squad Ammo).

Then again, 'it's a game mechanic' doesn't bother me much.

Modifié par Nimander, 19 juin 2011 - 09:38 .

[Praetor Knight]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

The thing that bugs me about ammo powers is, why do you need specialized training to switch out one ammo block for another in your gun? For example, why is it that only SoldierShep, InfiltratorShep, and Zaeed can use disruptor ammo? (Unless you upgrade to the squad ammo version, which opens up another can of worms) Should I just treat this as yet another gameplay/lore disconnect?

Having a set number of ammo block variety does not seem too out of the question, and for me at least makes some sense.

Also, I think ME2's equipment setup is rather realistic, without having a magical bag of holding type of inventory found in many other games, including ME1 with the tons of armor, weapons and mods one could carry.

And when you consider the materials that would be necessary for some of the properties found in ammo powers, I think that Shepard would need something to carry those materials around in, now that I'm thinking about it.

For instance, (using ME1 ammo descriptions), Inferno and Incendiary ammo, use a Thermite paste and possibly other compounds to produce the intense heat and flame burst effect seen in ME2.

Cryo ammo uses cooling lasers to collapse ammunition into small Bose-Einstein condensate, which is a mass of super-cooled subatomic particles that are capable of snap-freezing impacted objects.

And disruptor is the trickiest of the three base ammo powers to explain, where there could be some combination of a charged energy proton that disrupts tech like mini EMP blasts, since the projectiles still can do normal damage to health and armor.

Then Tungsten and Shredder seem straight forward enough, with warp ammo throwing me for a loop

[Shifty Assassin]

your killing soldiers....

[MassEffect762]

Ammo powers, what a joke.

Ammo powers = less 'real' skills, less/no customization(less options).

[Malanek]

Do I really want to get involved in another ammo thread? I feel strongly about the issue but at the same time I am getting sick of it popping up again and again.

The soldier class is the default class. It seems designed to most closely resemble the "normal shooter" experience. There is nothing wrong with that, in fact it seems quite important to have in the game. And the main thing that happens in a shooter is to shoot. The ammo powers offer a range of different, and very interesting, effects when you shoot enemies. They are also (mostly) passives which are highly important when playing with the global cooldown system.

I don't think all classes should have easy access to ammo powers, the soldiers gameplay revolves around shooting. The powers the OP listed seem reasonably well thought out but also seem a bit lame in comparison with freezing, frying or electrocuting your enemies when you shoot them. From a lore and story point of view I admit that ammo as powers doesn't make a lot of sense, however it works so well from a gameplay point of view that overrides it.

As for a modification, I like the idea of an ammo mixer. A weapon mod that allows the weapon to receive 2 types of ammo poweers at once.