120 réponses à ce sujet

[Aleenik]

Skyrim just keeps getting better.

Modifié par Aleenik, 18 juin 2011 - 07:32 .

[PATR01T]

Really? TES SKYRIM has that? wow that would be cool if you have a family and have a home.

[GodWood]

sympathy4saren wrote...
And sorry Dragon Age, Mass Effect's writing is above and beyond DA writing.

lol

[naughty99]

ForumPortal wrote...

Montezuma IV wrote...

Really? And actually I don't know why everyone thinks BioWare's been the best of romance. There are really just the only ones who care about it so much.

Bethesda has fantastic writing. They'll make daddy proud.

try harder troll

you try harder troll

some examples of excellent writing in Bethesda games

• "Whodunit?" (Oblivion) quest - hands down this is the most well-written quest in any RPG ever made
• Paranoia quest (Oblivion)
• The Telvanni quests (Morrowind)
• Sheogorath's quests (Oblivion, Morrowind)
• Ultimate Heist quest (Oblivion)
• Most of the Daedra Quests (Oblivion, Morrowind)
• Tranquility Lane (FO3)
• Wasteland Survival Guide (FO3)
• Strictly Business (FO3)
• Tennpenny Towers/Megaton (FO3)
• The Velvet Curtain (FO3)
• Reilly's Rangers (FO3)
• The Lusty Argonian Maid (in game book)
• The Real Barenziah (in game book)
• A Game At Dinner (in game book)
• The Black Arrow vol. 1 and vol. 2 (in game book)
• The Wolf Queen vols 1 - 8 (in game book)
• Immortal Blood (in game book)
• The Argonian Account vols 1-2 (in game book)

On top of this, Morrowind had 189 freaking BOOKS in-game! Nearly all of these were really well written and fun to read.

Oblivion had 256 in-game books, including The Lusty Argonian Maid, which was freaking brilliant.

Skyrim is going to have over 300 books!

Talk about a detailed game world.

Modifié par naughty99, 18 juin 2011 - 08:07 .

[por favor]

naughty99 wrote...

On top of this, Morrowind had 189 freaking BOOKS in-game! Nearly all of these were really well written and fun to read.

Oblivion had 256 in-game books, including The Lusty Argonian Maid, which was freaking brilliant.

Skyrim is going to have over 300 books!

Talk about a detailed game world.

You know, detail like that is what truly makes for an amazing game world (at least for me.) I love the fact that games like that have so much to offer and so much intricacy.

I remember watching a DA2 press interview with David Silverman from BioWare. He said, "There were so many books in the Circle tower, but how many people do you think actually read them? All that work for nothing!"

I absolutely disagree. That kind of hard work and detail in a game makes for such a great experience. I truly appreciate that kind of effort from game developers.

Modifié par por favor, 18 juin 2011 - 07:59 .

[naughty99]

por favor wrote...

I remember watching a DA2 press interview with David Silverman from BioWare. He said, "There were so many books in the Circle tower, but how many people do you think actually read them? All that work for nothing!"

I read them all!

Having all the books I found turn into worthless junk in DA2 was heartbreaking. Especially the book that Keeper Marethari gives you as a reward. WTF was up with that - she gives you this cool looking book during a cutscene and then in your inventory it is a piece of worthless junk.

BTW, all the books from Morrowind and Oblivion have been posted so you can read them all online here: Morrowind books
Oblivion Books

Modifié par naughty99, 18 juin 2011 - 08:18 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I would say that Bethesda's dialog is far from perfect. If writing extends to quest design too, then it depends on the quest. Something like Whodunnit has average writing at best, but was extremely well designed. Unfortunately, for every Purification or Whodunnit, there's 2 or 3 Rockshatters.

The books are another matter. Writing in those range from meh to outstanding. However, it's not dialog.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 18 juin 2011 - 08:18 .

[naughty99]

mrcrusty wrote...

I would say that Bethesda's dialog is far from perfect. If writing extends to quest design too, then it depends on the quest. Something like Whodunnit has average writing at best, but was extremely well designed. Unfortunately, for every Purification or Whodunnit, there's 2 or 3 Rockshatters.

The books are another matter. Writing in those range from meh to outstanding. However, it's not dialog.

I suspect we might have differing views on what "writing" means. 

Fictional writing is the art of telling a story. A good story develops naturally out of the dramatic conflict between compelling characters with opposing goals.

A well-written quest in an RPG simply tells a good a story, in other words, it engages the player in the world and the dramatic conflict of the quest. How can a quest be well designed, but poorly written? This I don't understand.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I'm talking about dialog specifically. I tend to separate narrative design and writing in my head, as narrative design is what you describe - the story & storytelling elements. Whereas writing is the actual writing - dialog.

Bethesda are typical of creating good narratives and well designed quests but coating it with less than ideal writing. Fallout 3 is rife with this. Tenpenny Tower.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 18 juin 2011 - 08:30 .

[naughty99]

Dialogue is certainly a very important part of storytelling, but "writing" is the whole enchilada, not just dialogue.

I've been working in the entertainment industry for about 10 years and trust me, the biggest challenge for writers is crafting the entire story. Especially for writers who work in TV, movies and games. It's probably closer to creating a blueprint for a building than it is to art for art's sake. After reading hundreds and hundreds screenplays, you quickly get a sense of whether "there is a movie there" or not. This means either the narrative works or it doesn't.

great dialogue with a crap story is not good writing. A truly compelling story with mediocre dialogue... well you don't see it every day but in my office that would still pique our interest.

Modifié par naughty99, 18 juin 2011 - 08:51 .

[Sigma Tauri]

naughty99 wrote...
including The Lusty Argonian Maid, which was freaking brilliant.

Are you serious? Lusty Argonian Maid is only remarkable because of its double entendres. I don't see anything brilliant about it, and it's not the best example of Bethesda's talents.

[ForumPortal]

monkeycamoran wrote...

naughty99 wrote...
including The Lusty Argonian Maid, which was freaking brilliant.

Are you serious? Lusty Argonian Maid is only remarkable because of its double entendres. I don't see anything brilliant about it, and it's not the best example of Bethesda's talents.

Obvious troll is obvious.

[por favor]

naughty99 wrote...

I read them all!

Having all the books I found turn into worthless junk in DA2 was heartbreaking. Especially the book that Keeper Marethari gives you as a reward. WTF was up with that - she gives you this cool looking book during a cutscene and then in your inventory it is a piece of worthless junk.

BTW, all the books from Morrowind and Oblivion have been posted so you can read them all online here: Morrowind books
Oblivion Books

So did I! I really hate it when companies assume people don't appreciate their hard work, because they do. I appreciated every last bit of detail that was put into DA:O. If I didn't, I wouldn't have played it four billion times. Little things like that is what gives the game so much charm.

Yeah! WTF was with her giving you that book and you not being able to read it! I just gave it to that crazy ass Hermit because he's apparently able to read it unlike me. haha.

Thanks for the links.  I'm ordering Oblivion (first ES game I'll ever be playing) so I'll read all those books to pump me up for the game. 

[Cutlass Jack]

It might be a tad early to confuse being able to romance with well written romances.

For example, in Fable III you can 'romance' any person you meet who swings your way in the world. Date them, marry them and even have children. But I wouldn't remotely call it romance in the Bioware definition of the term.

But I remain hopeful. Meaningful character interaction has always been Bethseda's weak point. I'd love to see them jump that hurdle.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 18 juin 2011 - 11:24 .

[GodWood]

I too am a person who went out of their way to read all the books in TES and only found 3 to be particularly good and memorable.

The Real Barenziah: Probably the most well known and well written of the lot (sadly censored post Daggerfall)

One whose name I can't remember that tells the tale of a necromancer's infatuation with his girlfriend's dead mother that he tries to bring back to life only to end up being boned by some hideous monster.

And another one whose name I can't remember that ends with some guy boning his adulteress wife in full plate armour. (I'm sensing a pattern...)



Now that's not to say I don't enjoy these books.
I do like them and they do enhance the setting for me but you'd have to be kidding yourself to think they're some kind of literary genius.
They're simply there to add depth to the setting. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

GodWood wrote...

sympathy4saren wrote...
And sorry Dragon Age, Mass Effect's writing is above and beyond DA writing.

lol

Hah, this is pretty good, considering that every loophole in Mass Effect plot or technobabble involves a "Mass Effect Field" smooting it all over. I challenge Bioware to not use the phrase "Mass Effect Field" in at least half their codex entries in ME 3.

[ForumPortal]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

GodWood wrote...

sympathy4saren wrote...
And sorry Dragon Age, Mass Effect's writing is above and beyond DA writing.

lol

Hah, this is pretty good, considering that every loophole in Mass Effect plot or technobabble involves a "Mass Effect Field" smooting it all over. I challenge Bioware to not use the phrase "Mass Effect Field" in at least half their codex entries in ME 3.

Obvious troll is obvious.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

How in the heck am I a troll? At least I don't speak in cliches, pretending to be witty while quoting sayings that are beyond stale.

[ForumPortal]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

How in the heck am I a troll? At least I don't speak in cliches, pretending to be witty while quoting sayings that are beyond stale.

Try harder troll.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Yay for people slapping labels on other people they haven't met on the internet. Someone please get this thread back on topic.

[Captain Crash]

Aleenik wrote...

Skyrim just keeps getting better.

This!   Im really happy about this.  Remember its still optional.  Thats why these games are awesome!! 


  :happy:  

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

It would be nice to see such options in the game. There are so many towns, I wonder how romances will be introduced. It could be through henchmen or it could be fun if it was through characters who wouldn't accompany the dragon born main character, perhaps a shopkeeper or a militia member in a settlement. There might be a stigma to knowing a dragon born too, so it could result in hard times for that character, it could end up being very deep. If Bethesda doesn't capitolize on this, at least the game will have plenty of modders.

[CroGamer002]

Cool!

[Captain Crash]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

It would be nice to see such options in the game. There are so many towns, I wonder how romances will be introduced. It could be through henchmen or it could be fun if it was through characters who wouldn't accompany the dragon born main character, perhaps a shopkeeper or a militia member in a settlement. There might be a stigma to knowing a dragon born too, so it could result in hard times for that character, it could end up being very deep. If Bethesda doesn't capitolize on this, at least the game will have plenty of modders.

Agreed, plus playing Oblivion for 200+ hours was a lonely ordeal.  Having someone else there would be really nice.


I know theres this "Fable" fear with happy families.  But I really doubt it would be anything like Lionhead created.   Bethesda know what they are doing with Character interactions and im sure they could do a great friend/romance subplot.   

As said its still entirely optional and it would be nice knowing there is a choice.  Plus im on 360 so im already at a major disadvantage so have to rely that its in game.