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Is Romance really love? (ME1 and ME2 spoilers)


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#26
goofyomnivore

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Yannkee wrote...

VolusNamedBob wrote...

"Who said anything about love? I'm just trying to get you into bed."

Must we forget this moment?


This line is a joke (obvious if you consider Miranda's response : "you ass"), and Mark Meer voice acting is really bad during this scene.
I never used this line during the romances with Miranda : not the best moment for a stupid joke (just after she opens up to Shepard).
That's why I prefer "It doesn't matter. What matters is how we feel." line.


Ironically the best written/delivered lines in that conversation are under the break up option.

I pick the "It doesn't matter.." line it is the lesser of two evils.

As for the OP -- I thnk it is subjective and depends how your Shepard is roleplayed. I consider my Shepard in romance, but true love yet, we will wait in see, however he is liking what he sees :wub:.

Modifié par strive, 18 juin 2011 - 11:56 .


#27
Cutlass Jack

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VolusNamedBob wrote...

I'm just trying to get you into bed."


A completely understandable request...given they were the only two with private bedrooms on the ship and they were in Engineering.
Image IPB

#28
Caihn

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strive wrote...
 I consider my Shepard in romance, but true love yet, we will wait in see, however he is liking what he sees :wub:.


I would like to see Shepard open up to Miranda in ME3. I don't like the fact that she's the only one who talk about her feelings.
At least he says that he care about her ...

Modifié par Yannkee, 18 juin 2011 - 12:11 .


#29
Sister Helen

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Cutlass Jack wrote...

"Ah yes 'Love.' *airquotes* That glorious and rich decadent emotion that one finds themselves hopelessly stuck in. Like Caramel pudding. We have dismissed this claim."


Heh. Hope your wife doesn't read the forums, mate.  Image IPB

#30
Cutlass Jack

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Sister Helen wrote...
Heh. Hope your wife doesn't read the forums, mate.  Image IPB


True. She'd send me out for Caramel Pudding. Image IPB

#31
Son of Illusive Man

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I think it depends on the LI, and I don't think there will be an official answer

#32
MassEffect762

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All I'll say is that it's not convincingly portrayed in both these games.

It's nothing more than eye candy/fan service imo.

You have to consider that the folks they sell these games to are largely youths, why bother
with more 'matured' romance writing when your primary consumers are 'kids'.

Modifié par MassEffect762, 18 juin 2011 - 02:19 .


#33
V-rex

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It depends. Truthfully I have always found it hard to believe that characters can 'totally fall in love' after what amounts to eight minutes of dialogue (seriously, look up the full dialogues for all the Mass Effect romances, counting all three dialogue sections and final scene, the average length is about eight minutes. That's about how long an average SINGLE conversation in Mass Effect 1 was) and in some cases it's spurred on so fast and is handled so shoddily that I feel like I'm watching an ammature porno rather then an actual romantic scene.

That said, if there was ever ONE romance in Mass Effect 2 that I think had to be love, it was Jack's. The proper sexless romance scene where they just cuddle, I mean. That one was always quite touching to me.

The others though? Not so much, Miranda's always felt like a poorly directed porno, Garrus's was kind of charming in an awkward way but pushed too fast, Thane's was a little melodramatic, Tali's did nothing to warm the lump of coal that is my heart and Jacob's was.... Jacob's.

Of course this is all my subjective view of the situation, and people have clearly developed some kind of strong attachment to these characters on a personal level as can be evidenced by their popularity on support threads.

But still I honestly think that had there NOT been an element of player interaction to make the player feel like they were involved in it, people might look at these romances the same way they look at crappy, unneccessary love interest subplots in movies.

This may even apply to characters I like, Ashley and Jack for instance. Yes I like them, I find them attractive and I grew to like them on a personal level and in the case of Ashley she felt like a real person in the way she was written and how she behaved in game. But the fact remains without that element of 'getting to know them yourself' I doubt I'd have been as invested as I ended up being. That element worked quite well.
Enough that I was able to actually want to 'stay faithful' to a fictitious character.

I guess what I'm saying is, Bioware might not exceed at making great 'romantic dialogue' but they do succeed in making dynamic and interesting and well written characters that hold our attention enough that we remain invested in what happens to them. So, when a personal connection is made between them and our player character, we develop affection towards them.
Which is still something.

As it stands, I do think it is 'love' in the context of the story. It's not always clear or well done the way it's written but if Kaidan is prepared to ask FemShep about her feelings, Ashley is prepared to confess quirks about herself to ManShep, Miranda is ready to give up the role of 'ice queen' to try being nice, Jacob is ready to pull out the one liners, Garrus is ready to try out with a human, Tali is ready to endanger her health, Jack is ready to trust someone for the first time, Thane is ready to get over the death of his wife and Liara is ready to fight the Shadow broker... I'd say there is a clear intent if nothing else to be equivical to love.

When Ashley started to get upset on Horizon, one of the first things she did was say 'I loved you'. While everything else in that scene was an embarrassing trainwreck in terms of writing, the way that one bit was written and the way her voice actress performed it, made it feel legitimate.

The fact that James Shepard was subsequently able to resist sleeping with anyone else adds on to that.

Modifié par V-rex, 18 juin 2011 - 03:09 .


#34
Liec

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Well of course it's love. Epic stories require epic romances.

#35
PMC65

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elearon1 wrote...

Well, I know that for my Femshep she had imagined a long term relationship between herself and Liara, but when she runs into her on Illium and receives a half hearted kind of welcome back, she starts questioning some things ... she begins to wonder if Liara has moved on and, interacting with more Asari on planet she starts to realize how doomed a long term relationship with the girl would be.

Asari can live a thousand years, which means in the long run Shep's relationship with Liara will only be a small part of her vast lifespan. They would never get to grow old together, to wonder about the impermanence of life and what might lay beyond together; they wouldn't fade together. Instead Shep would grow old and weary while Liara barely changed at all; she would grow slow while her beautiful alien love was still in the flower of her youth ... and she would start to become a burden tying her love down.

That is something, I think, my Shep would really have a hard time with. She is a strong, independent woman and would probably live a good long, and even energetic and healthy life ... but in the end, no matter how hard she tried to keep up, she'd know she was becoming an anchor, keeping a still young a vibrant woman from going out and living her life.

Humans have certain expectations about long term, and even "life long" relationships that simply could not be fulfilled with an Asari.

But who else? She has something of a crush on Tali, but even if the other woman reciprocated I don't think it would be any more than a fun fling - maybe a couple years, but soon the illusion would wear off for Tali and they would realize that their long term goals pulled them in different directions. They'd probably always remain greatest of friends, with that underlying "something" between them, but I doubt they'd manage a truly long term relationship,

And those are the only two women my Shep would even consider for anything more than flings. Miranda would be fun for a time, but I don't see either one of them making more of it than it was.

Jack ... a hard couple nights and some partying, but no - nothing more than that.

Ash? No. Shep likes and respects her - chose to save her over Kaidan - but there was no romantic chemistry between them. They would remain long friends, as her and Anderson probably will if he survives this next attack, but the kind of friends she had beers on the porch with while talking about how old they feel and how young the new generation of soldiers was. "Was I ever that young?" Ash would ask, "You mean before I turned you into a real soldier?" Shep would tease; at which point Anderson would pull out some embarrassing story about Shep still getting her "sea legs" ... and they'd laugh and raise a toast to the open sky ,,, and for a moment everything would become somber as they remembered those who had passed, and those they had let go ... and then Anderson's wife would come out and say something, or Ash would make a crack about Shep's sea legs, and the moment would pass ... as eventually so would they. And the Galaxy, it would keep on as it always had ...


I highly enjoyed reading this post! You hit on points of the Liara relationship that I have struggled with in my own story.  

#36
Erlex

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ForumPortal wrote...

I've only played as a male Shepard so I can't speak to female romance options, but I wonder, do Shepard and any of the LI's love each other, or is the romance a product of the intensity of the mission? If so, could any romance actually work out in the long run?



Well the answer to the "Could  any romance actually work out in the long run" is up to you(Or up to ME3). Because you are probably right about everything you said, maybe Shepards LI is in romance with Shepard just because of particular reason at that time, but in ME3 Shepard will probably give them another reason to be in romace with him, and so on through future. Eventually that romance will grow in to love (if it already didnt in ME2 or in ME1). I hope i helped :happy:

Modifié par Erlex, 18 juin 2011 - 03:37 .


#37
SkittlesKat96

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Yeah I have to admit it'd be good if they could flesh out the actual romance parts of ME 3...give reasons why Shepards likes being around them and find ways to make it seem like Shepard can relate to his/her LI's etc.

that would work

#38
KainrycKarr

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I think we're getting a little into dating-sim territory here, but sure I'll bite.

For me, Tali is love, definately on her side, possibly on Shepard's side depending on the player.


It really just depends on the player. I don't think Bioware has written any of these romances as strictly "ok, Miranda is a fling, tali is a crush, jack is love..." etc.

I think it's all intended to be left up to interpretation by the player, with the assumption that it's something meaningful. And, frankly, I think that's how it should remain.

#39
Guest_elektrego_*

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V-rex wrote...

I guess what I'm saying is, Bioware might not exceed at making great 'romantic dialogue' but they do succeed in making dynamic and interesting and well written characters that hold our attention enough that we remain invested in what happens to them. So, when a personal connection is made between them and our player character, we develop affection towards them..


I think this deserves a QFT, especially since it ist embedded in a larger text, and might go unnoticed., but it is important and probably the one fact that is responsible for most of the 'fighting' happening at the BSN regarding npcs.

#40
graciegrace

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Liara definitely loves Shephard if LotSB is anything to go off.

#41
Bogsnot1

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Love is a thing of inner beauty.
If its in her, beauty!

#42
Fiery Phoenix

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Love interests that literally love Shepard:
  • Thane
  • Tali
  • Kaidan
The others most probably do, but with these three in particular it's painfully obvious.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 18 juin 2011 - 04:39 .


#43
Mr.House

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If Liara does not love Shepard after all they have been through then I'm a VI.

Modifié par Mr.House, 18 juin 2011 - 04:47 .


#44
Khran1505

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The LIs in particular truly love Shepard, we can each tell that from how they open up to us and bond with us over the course of the romance plot. For each of us, it just depends on the kind of guy/girl we want.

For myself, I picked Tali. She was just that kind of mystery girl with the same level of determination to help her people like my Shepard with humanity. And like my Shepard, Tali knows her duty that she has sworn herself to. Plus throughout ME2 you can see just how much she acts like Shepard to get things done, most of the time it works in her favour. She's young and barely fits in that age group with Shepard but she has grown substantially psychologically. As far as I'm concerned through my Shepard, she and I won't part ways for a very long time.

And if I couldn't choose Tali, Jack would've been my next option. Her character paints her as an insecure and emotionally fragile girl hiding behind a tough steel wall so she can protect herself. When you bring that wall down, you can see she's just begging for someone to hold her and keep her heart safe. Honestly, that kind of person wouldn't want to lose someone as strong and protective as Shepard. Especially my Shepard.

That's just how I perceive these romances. As far as I can tell, the only ones I am weary of with romance are Ashley, Miranda and Jacob.

#45
DoNotIngest

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Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Love interests that literally love Shepard:


Thane

Tali

Kaidan

The others most probably do, but with these three in particular it's painfully obvious.




Yep. While some of them are obviously very deep, I think you could count all of them as love. Miranda and Jacob's romances seem very shallow at first, but if you'd like, you can make them deep (Not that I've done them, just from what I've read and seen in ME romance spoof vids Image IPB)

#46
Raiil

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I think Jacob can be forced into admitting that he loves you, Thane 'tells' you in a private letter, and the VS will mention it on Horizon.

I think all romances can turn into love, but a lot of it is headcanon. My canon Shepard does love Thane, and did love Kaidan, but that's how I played it- one of the reasons she's so bitter towards Kaidan is because there were a lot of feelings involved. How far it goes is totally up to the player.

#47
PseudoEthnic

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All of the romances can be seen as love if the player/Shepard chooses so.

While the romance subplots are short, I look at them as just a small blueprint. It's obvious that time goes by as we do missions, so it's up to us to determine what was going on during those times.

#48
AngelicMachinery

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They're not love... they're the prize....the prize...the prize...

#49
ExtremeKroganRage

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I believe that with most of the LI's it starts with a bit of lust then turns into love. With Jack your romance starts with lust then grows into something quite beautiful. Hopefully in ME3 we will see great endings to the romances.

#50
slimgrin

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Sex---> romance---> love. In that order.