129 réponses à ce sujet

[ddv.rsa]

IanPolaris wrote...
in terms of logistics the mages actually have the net advantage.

Without question.

IanPolaris wrote...
especially if the mages can offer services in exchange for goods (particularly healing).

More or less agree. But I don't think the rebels will have a 100% monopoly on magic. I'm sure at least a few Templar units will be lucky enough to have a loyalist mage with them. Remember that fanatic mage woman from Origins? She was with Wynne in the tower. Definitely an example of a mage who would join the Templars.

Modifié par ddv.rsa, 18 juin 2011 - 07:15 .

[dragonflight288]

I think of her as an example of begging the templars to put her to death because it would be a mercy.

[ddv.rsa]

dragonflight288 wrote...

The only way the templars can win this war if it is done hard and fast, likely with a massive amount of collateral damage.

I reject this claim on the basis of common sense. If mage victory was all but assured there would be no point in Bioware creating this conflict as a theme for future games. To make a compelling story both sides would need to have their ups and downs, with no one sure of the outcome. A tale of the mages slowly mopping up pockets of Tempar resistance wouldn't be very interesting.

Modifié par ddv.rsa, 18 juin 2011 - 07:12 .

[The Baconer]

Power?

[sphinxess]

ddv.rsa wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

The only way the templars can win this war if it is done hard and fast, likely with a massive amount of collateral damage.

I reject this claim on the basis of common sense. If mage victory was all but assured there would be no point in Bioware creating this conflict as a theme for future games. To make a compelling story both sides would need to have their ups and downs, with no one sure of the outcome. A tale of the mages slowly mopping up pockets of Tempar resistance wouldn't be very interesting.

Way too much credit is being given to the idea that mages are going to be going on the offensive. To start with the most agressive ones are probably killed in taking their circle from the templars with a majority of the ones remaining seeing themselves as prey and heading for the hills. Only a few will find a community that will accept them.

[IanPolaris]

Did I say anything about a mage offensive? I think the mages have more advantages and potential allies than some realize, but one of the biggest advantage they have is this:

Everyday they exist outside the influence of the Chantry counts as a "win". The mages can win simply by not losing.

-Polaris

[Huntress]

Don't forget the loyalist mages, they WILL assist templars, they will kill others mages to get the chantry back in power.

Of course nothing comes for free this mages will ask for something in return but, the chantry will use this mages as puppets, now instead of looking for templars/seekers(lily), blood-magesGoneWildDemonLovers, they'll have to look for loyalist mages aswell and they looks as any other mage. Scarry really. Can't wait for more DA2 hawke vs templars conflicts.

[Dragonella1]

I wouldn't be so sure about Loyalist mages, they are loyal to the Chantry not to Templars. As we know Templars are no more under the Chantry control. I would rather expect Loyalist mages camp in chantries helping and protecting sisters and generally peacefully waiting for all this madness to end.

[dragonflight288]

I do expect some loyalists who would see templars as divine, regardless of in the chantry or not. The Chantry commands and they follow to the letter. After a lifetime of serving and working with templars, that may be a tough habit to break.

Any smart mage general would not openly attack templars, have the mages blend in to gather support, and let the templars commit atrocities, or stop them in the act, to show proof that the templars are not as divine or righteous as they (the templars) would have the world believe. Raids on phylactery store rooms, stealing or even destroying lyrium. Several mages using mana can simulate the effects of lyrium except in certain rituals, whereas templars need lyrium due to their addiction.

Let the war be drawn out. The longer it lasts, the better it would be for the mages.

Or at least...were I the general that would be my strategy.

[mesmerizedish]

HSHAW wrote...

What powers do mages have on their side?

...magic?

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 22 juin 2011 - 08:08 .

[TEWR]

What they need to do is get one of these.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 19 juin 2011 - 05:09 .

[dragonflight288]

lol.

[HSHAW]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

HSHAW wrote...




What powers do mages have on their side?

...magic?

I meant things like what allies will Mages have (eg: if they get Ferelden or Feyniel to help that's a major ally) or what tools (the A-bomb and the obvious one, magic ) will they have.

[HSHAW]

double post.

Modifié par HSHAW, 19 juin 2011 - 07:32 .

[Plaintiff]

Any noble who isn't a complete moron will see the advantage of siding with the mages, both in terms of offensive/defensive power, healing, enchantment and pretty much every major aspect of fuedal society.

There are nobles already in Ferelden and Kirkwall who were shown to be sympathetic to the mage situation in Origins and DA2, and now that they've seen that the Chantry can be openly defied, they've likely been emboldened. The schism between the Chantry and Templars would leave both in disarray, while the mages for the most part seem unified in their purpose (from what little we're told, anyway). If any noble was going to openly support the mages and defy the Chantry, now is the ideal time.

[Huntress]

I never said Loyalist mages are templar lovers, I said they will ASSIST the few templars that still working for the chantry. They see templars not as jailers but as merceful sword.. tratalala(%^&) That! hehe

Yes is going to get interesting, sadly this game start a new character every 1-2 years.. wierd as hell if you ask me.

[River5]

jollyorigins wrote...

 According to the wiki the mages have most of those in the circle of magi, apostates, some blood mages and even some rebel templars aiding them. Whilst the templars have well, the templars, the seekers are apparently on the same side and some circle loyalists are aiding them, I imagine people like Wynne would be a circle loyalist.

I sincerely doubt that Wynne is a loyalist.  When you meet her in DAA, she states her belief that the mages will never be free because the Chantry would never allow it...  And then, says that the mages only hope for survival is to prove that they can be trusted...  She fears that going against the Chantry would result in genocide.

www.youtube.com/watch

However, she never indicated that she, in any way, agreed with the Chantry's view of mages; nor that she is trully content with the way things are.  She seems "loyal" only because she sees the alternative as being too dangerous.

Considering that her own child was taken away from her, and that she tells Alistair that she still thinks about her son every day, I really doubt that she has much love for the Chantry, actually.

If the situation presented itself where the Chantry lost enough political and social power to be overturned without risking all mages being wiped out, she'd probably side with her fellow mages against the Chantry in a heartbeat!

So far, she has been refered to as an Aequitarian dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Fraternities_of_Enchanters

[Patchwork]

What really interests me is what pushed the other circles to rebel, that might be the key to how many normal people they can get on side. Common sense says that Kirkwall's circle can't be the first to be annulled under suspect circumstances nor the first time a great disaster has been caused by magic in the name of mage freedom.

What was it that pushed the circles into rebellion and the Chantry being so ineffective that the templars willing parted ways with their lyrium supplier?

[DonutsDealer]

Well, the mages have blood magic, they can mind control nobles to support them.

[Loc'n'lol]

Frankly, not much, besides their own powers. The common folks in most of Thedas fear them, the Imperium and the Qunari probably couldn't care less, the Grey Wardens are obligated to stay neutral and I doubt they'd side against the chantry if forced to take a stance.

[sphinxess]

River5 wrote...

jollyorigins wrote...

 According to the wiki the mages have most of those in the circle of magi, apostates, some blood mages and even some rebel templars aiding them. Whilst the templars have well, the templars, the seekers are apparently on the same side and some circle loyalists are aiding them, I imagine people like Wynne would be a circle loyalist.

I sincerely doubt that Wynne is a loyalist.  When you meet her in DAA, she states her belief that the mages will never be free because the Chantry would never allow it...  And then, says that the mages only hope for survival is to prove that they can be trusted...  She fears that going against the Chantry would result in genocide.

www.youtube.com/watch

However, she never indicated that she, in any way, agreed with the Chantry's view of mages; nor that she is trully content with the way things are.  She seems "loyal" only because she sees the alternative as being too dangerous.

Considering that her own child was taken away from her, and that she tells Alistair that she still thinks about her son every day, I really doubt that she has much love for the Chantry, actually.

If the situation presented itself where the Chantry lost enough political and social power to be overturned without risking all mages being wiped out, she'd probably side with her fellow mages against the Chantry in a heartbeat!

So far, she has been refered to as an Aequitarian dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Fraternities_of_Enchanters

Watch her reaction if you show up at the tower with Morrigan in your party - thats a true Chantry loyalist.. If she doesn't die right there she kinda accepts Morrigan but thats a far cry from altering her fundamental beliefs.

Modifié par sphinxess, 22 juin 2011 - 01:13 .

[Hatchetman77]

I could see the Dalish helping the mages.  The Dwarves may also be interested in gaining some magical firepower which they lack, which may prompt them to offer the mages refuge and perhaps an official "foreigner" status in the caste system (especially if you put Bhelen in charge in Origins).  There's also the Mages Collective which is already an undergroung society of mages.  Nobles will probably not directly help the mages but may offer indirect support in the hopes that after this is all over the nobility would have a greater control over magic.  Right now the chantry now has a magical monopoly.    

[EmperorSahlertz]

No nobility will ever help the mages, based on the idea of increased control over mages later. The mages are fighting their previous masters, and will not simply trade one master for another. Far more likely that a noble will side with the mages because that it may make a future allaince more likely.
However, it is far more likely that the nobles will side against the mages, since they will all recognize the threat the mages pose to their own rule.

[Harid]

As so far as how the conflict has been written to the point of Dragon Age 2, they would not have much save a few rebel templars.  Why would nobles back an extreme minority that it's people would be ultimately against due to 900 years of Chantry indoctrination?  Stupidity?

Logically they would be cut down and subjugated further.

However I expect some third threat, a Blight, the Qunari, or whatever to sprout up, everyone to band together against them, and then the Chantry releasing some of the control of the mages in reward for helping to put down this third threat.

That's the Bioware way.

Modifié par Harid, 22 juin 2011 - 08:05 .

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

No nobility will ever help the mages, based on the idea of increased control over mages later. The mages are fighting their previous masters, and will not simply trade one master for another. Far more likely that a noble will side with the mages because that it may make a future allaince more likely.
However, it is far more likely that the nobles will side against the mages, since they will all recognize the threat the mages pose to their own rule.

Not all nobility would side against the mages. I can think of a few nobles who wouldn't.

• Gascard DuPuis (if he was spared)
• The De Launcet family
• Arl Eamon's family. Isolde's family also falls in here.

Since those are the only nobles I remember seeing that had connections to magic, there you go. But I imagine nobility have ties to magic somewhere in their bloodline. Maybe a son or daughter, brother or sister, aunt or uncle, etc. And if they're not the types who see magic as a curse because that's what the Chantry spoonfed them, then they'll help.