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[mesmerizedish]

HSHAW wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

HSHAW wrote...

What powers do mages have on their side?

...magic?

I meant things like what allies will Mages have (eg: if they get Ferelden or Feyniel to help that's a major ally) or what tools (the A-bomb and the obvious one, magic ) will they have.

I know, I was just being a smartass

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

No nobility will ever help the mages, based on the idea of increased control over mages later. The mages are fighting their previous masters, and will not simply trade one master for another. Far more likely that a noble will side with the mages because that it may make a future allaince more likely.
However, it is far more likely that the nobles will side against the mages, since they will all recognize the threat the mages pose to their own rule.

Not all nobility would side against the mages. I can think of a few nobles who wouldn't.

• Gascard DuPuis (if he was spared)
  
• The De Launcet family
  
• Arl Eamon's family. Isolde's family also falls in here.

Since those are the only nobles I remember seeing that had connections to magic, there you go. But I imagine nobility have ties to magic somewhere in their bloodline. Maybe a son or daughter, brother or sister, aunt or uncle, etc. And if they're not the types who see magic as a curse because that's what the Chantry spoonfed them, then they'll help.

Familial connections does in no way serve to indicate where a noble family's loyalties will lie. A quick look at our own history will show you that nobles often have no qualms about killing their own brothers if it serves to consolidate their own power.

[Harid]

At the very best they will be getting assistance from the Tevinters. . .which will not help them in the long run.

[TEWR]

Tevinter would probably help indirectly. Because of their stranglehold on their magocracy and how they enslave mages and non-mages alike, they won't actively help the rest of the mages outside of Tevinter.

But should the rogue Templars attempt to assault Tevinter, Tevinter will defend themselves and this in turn has the potential to help the mages elsewhere. Especially if because the Templars no longer have a supply of lyrium, they end up attacking regular citizens as well.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I doubt the Templars will ever attack normal citizens, since they rebelled to fulfill their obligation to protect them.

[The Baconer]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I doubt the Templars will ever attack normal citizens, since they rebelled to fulfill their obligation to protect them.

I don't doubt there are a good amount who would, under the suspicion that they are harboring mages. Though, I guess if they were they may or may not fall under the criteria of 'normal' citizens.

[TEWR]

without their lyrium, they might. Remember, lyrium dulls a Templar's mind. Think of... what was his name? Ser Roderick? While harmless, his mind was pretty much shattered.


Them being addicted to lyrium is how the Chantry kept a stranglehold on the Templars. Lyrium withdrawal is deadly and can kill a man, as Samson says.


And without the Chantry providing them lyrium, they'll need to find a new way to acquire it. Which means they'll need money to pay Orzammar. And eventually they'll start robbing places to get that money.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Samson goes for 7 years without Lyrium and doesn't die. It seems no more deadly than any other addiction of our world. All it takes to overcome it is discipline.
However, its withdrawal does seem to have some severe side effects, though I can't say how common Roderick's case is, or permanent for that matter. IIRC Roderick was an old Templar who had served for many years, and wasn't actually suffering from withdrawl, but was simply being addled by the continued use of lyrium.

[TEWR]

Roderick is still a Templar, but the point is that lyrium addles the mind. I wasn't saying he was going through withdrawal, though I did word my post poorly.


Samson says that withdrawal from lyrium can indeed kill you. Just because he lived doesn't mean it's harmless. And he does beg for money. he may have gotten his hands on some and paid lyrium smugglers. We don't really know.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Well, there is a difference between "will kill you" and "can kill you", and I'm just guessing that lyrium withdrawal "can kill you", like so many other withdrawals, but won't neccesarily be the death of you.
And since the limited amount of lyrium the rebellious Templars will have, it may actually serve as some kind of controlled cessation of drug use, and the Templars will come out all the better.
Or it may go horribly wrong, and the Templars will be reduced to abunch of lyrium addled maniacs marauding around the countryside abducting children. Who knows?

[TEWR]

If it's the latter, then the mages have an edge because the populus may not want to side with the Templars anymore. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll immediately side with the mages, but if the Templars have less support then it still helps the mages out in the long run.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Indeed, but if it is the former, I think the mages are screwed.

[TEWR]

well, there's a greater chance they're screwed. But if they actually apply some military tactics they have a shot at winning.


It all depends on what support they get. But the Templars are going to go after any free mage. Circle, Dalish, Chasind, etc. So, I imagine those groups would assist in order to keep their own way of life, either indirectly or directly.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I think the Templars are gonna start with the actual renegade Circle Mages. They would be biting off way more than tehy can chew if tehy went after ALL apostates, and the Templars probably know this, since they, contrary to Circle Mages, actually got a military education.

[HSHAW]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I think the Templars are gonna start with the actual renegade Circle Mages. They would be biting off way more than tehy can chew if tehy went after ALL apostates, and the Templars probably know this, since they, contrary to Circle Mages, actually got a military education.

You mind explaining how mages have a chance of winning if the Templars don't screw up (there is definitely going to be an ending where mages win, bioware isn't going to troll the pro-mage camp by making the Templars win no matter what you do)?

[EmperorSahlertz]

I don't know how mages could possibly win, without the use of plot armor. The stacks are completely in the Templars favor, unless the Templars end up as simple raiders with better armor and weapons, in which case popular support would pass to the mages. That is the only way the Mages stand even the slightest chance of winning.

[HSHAW]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I don't know how mages could possibly win, without the use of plot armor. The stacks are completely in the Templars favor, unless the Templars end up as simple raiders with better armor and weapons, in which case popular support would pass to the mages. That is the only way the Mages stand even the slightest chance of winning.

I can think of a few ways:

#1: Templars start attacking people for supplies to buy Lyrium.

#2: A fair portion of the nobles of Thedas side against Chantry.

#3: Frequent use of the A-Bomb (Anders' bomb), Feyniel and blood magic prove to be extremely devestating.

#4: The person/people killing Templars in Asunder racks up a serious body count.

#5: Something interrupts the conflict.

#6: The Templars pick a fight with every group with free mages.

#7: Mages realise that their powers would be utterly devestating if they start using them for sneak attacks.

[Wulfram]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I doubt the Templars will ever attack normal citizens, since they rebelled to fulfill their obligation to protect them.

They've got a death squad murdering ordinary citizens in Act 3.  Mage sympathisers - the one we see let her whipped and half starving Apostate cousin stay the night - but still ordinary citizens.

edit: And yes the mages can't win, not outright.  But they can fight a guerilla war until people realise the Templars can't win either, and then make a deal.

Modifié par Wulfram, 23 juin 2011 - 11:58 .

[DKJaigen]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I don't know how mages could possibly win, without the use of plot armor. The stacks are completely in the Templars favor, unless the Templars end up as simple raiders with better armor and weapons, in which case popular support would pass to the mages. That is the only way the Mages stand even the slightest chance of winning.

I do its called geurillia warfare. both velanna and anders demonstrated that they can basically cripple an entire country within days.

[HSHAW]

DKJaigen wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I don't know how mages could possibly win, without the use of plot armor. The stacks are completely in the Templars favor, unless the Templars end up as simple raiders with better armor and weapons, in which case popular support would pass to the mages. That is the only way the Mages stand even the slightest chance of winning.

I do its called geurillia warfare. both velanna and anders demonstrated that they can basically cripple an entire country within days.

Not quite cripple a country on their own but this is probably going to be what mages end up doing.

[EmperorSahlertz]

You can't wage geurilla warfare against another geurilla faction... The Templars are rogue too and doesn't have bases around Thedas for the mages to strike at, nor do they have scheduled patrols for them to ambush. So that whole geurilla warfare strategy goes down the drain. And Velanna didn't cripple a nation at all, she hurt a single trade route going to Amaranthine, and Anders alone only crippled Kirkwall, which isn't a nation either.

[The Baconer]

Then I guess it'll come down to how the Templars handle the situation. My guess is that they will exist as roving bands searching for mages. How they will conduct themselves with the common population is anyone's guess.

[TEWR]

I can say that Anders has one noble friend prior to Awakening. Bann Ferrenly according to his amulet called Fox's Pendant.

After Anders first escaped from the Circle Tower, he saved the life of Bann Ferrenly. This enchanted amulet was a reward for Anders's service and friendship.

And it's possible this Bann Ferrenly might be a descendant of the Black Fox

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 25 juin 2011 - 01:31 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

No noble will honor any friendship if it jeopardizes his own posistion. He may aid the mages from behind the scene, but in the best case (for the mages), he must appear neutral in the conflict. In the worst case, he will not feel any sort of kinship with the other mages just because he knows Anders. Also, he is just a Bann, not nearly influential enough to make any sort of major difference.

And how do you propose that this Ferrenly is a decendant of the Black Fox?

[TEWR]

grasping at straws really. Fox's Pendant, Fox's Bow, Black Fox. I think he is though.


And remember, Bann Teagan was just a bann, yet with his speech and Loghain's suspicious circumstances many banns fought against him. Maybe it's just because he's the brother to Eamon. Or maybe it's because his speech worked.

A Bann can have enough influence provided he knows what to do.