129 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

The Tevinter Imperium was built around the idea of mages ruling. It's a part of their society, their culture, their way of life.


The rest of Ferelden isn't.

[Mike 9987]

blood magic and demon summoning obviously. If the templars end up fighting against 10 or 20 of those blood mages that summon over 50 demons and a pride demon like the one kneeling at the statue before going to the docks at the end of DA2, the templars will be in trouble.

[DPSSOC]

Huntress wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The noble families will never side the mages, for the simple reason that the amges pose a dire threat to the nobles' own posistion. It really is that simple. Of course there are going to be a few odd idealistic nobles who are gonna side with the mages of principal reasons, but far the majority will side with the Templars or remain neutral.

This is complete rubbish and in fact almost gets it backwards.  As a small group with extraordinary abilities, mages are anything but a threat to nobility.  Indeed in Tevinter they are the nobility.

And there ladies and gentlemen we have our threat.  When the Tevinter mages were first given slack they were not the nobility, however over time they rebuilt their power base and now they rule once more.  Any noble in Thedas would recognize that given freedom there's nothing to stop the mages from doing the same elsewhere.  That's a big part of what's kept the mages down for so long, the very real threat of creating another group of magisters.

Life is under threat since it was form.. We die.. thats life threat, death.

Now, is true some mages will want to get power and hurt people to get it, and some people will hurt everyone to gain power.. do you see what I mean?
Not need to be a mage to hurt people, anyone one with the power/wants/needs/sick/young/old can hurt others, and this person will do the job just as a mage would, without been a mage him/herself.

Any way I do not see life  white or black not even as rose colour, I just know that for every evil person that is born, One is born  to stop it.. Thast balance, thats what DA2 is missing, the balance of things.

And I'm not saying all mages would want to rule over people, or even most, just pointing out why the nobility could feel threatened by mages.  With their superior abilities given equal footing a mage will quickly outclass his/her peers.  A mage farmer could produce more/better crops than a non mage, a mage craftsmen could create things a normal one couldn't even dream of, etc.  What the nobility has to worry about isn't a hostile mage take over, but that if mages every became nobility they'd have a considerable advantage.  A mage lord could use magic in any number of ways to gain money and prestige that non-mage nobility just wouldn't have access to.

[Huntress]

Neither my mageWarden or my Magehawke will ever do such a thing, Mike 9987. Do not by a moment think every mage will do such a thing.

If they* (My mages*) died fighting, defending what their dear most, LIFE, the RIGHT to LIVE, the RIGHT to choose for themself how to LIVE that LIFE, then that was the price for them.

Right or wrong, people, normal people do not wish to be told, controlled, slaveded by anyone.
To my magewarden and (all) My Hawke's thats what the chantry rules and the Circle ARE.. a Threat to all mages.

[Mike 9987]

Huntress wrote...

Neither my mageWarden or my Magehawke will ever do such a thing, Mike 9987. Do not by a moment think every mage will do such a thing.

If they* (My mages*) died fighting, defending what their dear most, LIFE, the RIGHT to LIVE, the RIGHT to choose for themself how to LIVE that LIFE, then that was the price for them.

Right or wrong, people, normal people do not wish to be told, controlled, slaveded by anyone.
To my magewarden and (all) My Hawke's thats what the chantry rules and the Circle ARE.. a Threat to all mages.

the harder meredith pressed them, the more they resorted to blood magic. what makes you think they wont do this if they feel like they are losing the war, and they get a demon proposing victory and freedom for all mages? 

[Huntress]

DPSSOC wrote...

Huntress wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The noble families will never side the mages, for the simple reason that the amges pose a dire threat to the nobles' own posistion. It really is that simple. Of course there are going to be a few odd idealistic nobles who are gonna side with the mages of principal reasons, but far the majority will side with the Templars or remain neutral.

This is complete rubbish and in fact almost gets it backwards.  As a small group with extraordinary abilities, mages are anything but a threat to nobility.  Indeed in Tevinter they are the nobility.

And there ladies and gentlemen we have our threat.  When the Tevinter mages were first given slack they were not the nobility, however over time they rebuilt their power base and now they rule once more.  Any noble in Thedas would recognize that given freedom there's nothing to stop the mages from doing the same elsewhere.  That's a big part of what's kept the mages down for so long, the very real threat of creating another group of magisters.

Life is under threat since it was form.. We die.. thats life threat, death.

Now, is true some mages will want to get power and hurt people to get it, and some people will hurt everyone to gain power.. do you see what I mean?
Not need to be a mage to hurt people, anyone one with the power/wants/needs/sick/young/old can hurt others, and this person will do the job just as a mage would, without been a mage him/herself.

Any way I do not see life  white or black not even as rose colour, I just know that for every evil person that is born, One is born  to stop it.. Thast balance, thats what DA2 is missing, the balance of things.

And I'm not saying all mages would want to rule over people, or even most, just pointing out why the nobility could feel threatened by mages.  With their superior abilities given equal footing a mage will quickly outclass his/her peers.  A mage farmer could produce more/better crops than a non mage, a mage craftsmen could create things a normal one couldn't even dream of, etc.  What the nobility has to worry about isn't a hostile mage take over, but that if mages every became nobility they'd have a considerable advantage.  A mage lord could use magic in any number of ways to gain money and prestige that non-mage nobility just wouldn't have access to.

By that way of thinking then all the nobles should be at war with each other by now..  ( yes Arl Howl come to mind)
they already see others nobles as a threat, is  not going to start after the mages get their freedom, it already exist.

I am not saying people should accept everything you say to them right away, that will be childsh of my part, but  they'll learn how to coop with it and thats what my mages are fighting for, to have a place in THEDAS, not to be seen as a monsters because  they're not.

[Huntress]

Mike 9987 wrote...

Huntress wrote...

Neither my mageWarden or my Magehawke will ever do such a thing, Mike 9987. Do not by a moment think every mage will do such a thing.

If they* (My mages*) died fighting, defending what their dear most, LIFE, the RIGHT to LIVE, the RIGHT to choose for themself how to LIVE that LIFE, then that was the price for them.

Right or wrong, people, normal people do not wish to be told, controlled, slaveded by anyone.
To my magewarden and (all) My Hawke's thats what the chantry rules and the Circle ARE.. a Threat to all mages.

the harder meredith pressed them, the more they resorted to blood magic. what makes you think they wont do this if they feel like they are losing the war, and they get a demon proposing victory and freedom for all mages? 

There is bad people in the world, some don't even need little reason to be bad.. like Meredith, Arl howel and anyone also who wants the world to spin their way.
People get corrupt, yes, but to others, like My mages thats not the way to go, some mages just want to live and thats why Anders and My hawkes will fight for and neither Anders, my mages or Bethany are blood-mages.

[Mike 9987]

Huntress wrote...


I am not saying people should accept everything you say to them right away, that will be childsh of my part, but  they'll learn how to coop with it and thats what my mages are fighting for, to have a place in THEDAS, not to be seen as a monsters because  they're not.

all the mages of thedas are not "your" mages. Not all of them are as strong willed as hawke or the warden. With no circle, new mages will not be able to be trained properly, thus demons will spring at the chance. 

[Huntress]

Mike 9987 wrote...

Huntress wrote...


I am not saying people should accept everything you say to them right away, that will be childsh of my part, but  they'll learn how to coop with it and thats what my mages are fighting for, to have a place in THEDAS, not to be seen as a monsters because  they're not.

all the mages of thedas are not "your" mages. Not all of them are as strong willed as hawke or the warden. With no circle, new mages will not be able to be trained properly, thus demons will spring at the chance. 

Mages will teach the new mages, the ones outside of their reach will die, that can't be stoped, that can't be controlled, that will HAPPEN and there is nothing anyone can do.

Only the strongest lives, fight, defend themself and grow thats LIFE.
  Even under the chantry and the circle is happening  and not one can't stop it from happening, Connor been one, Uldreed been another, you can stop them from  hurting and killing people, but you cant prevent them from what they will become.

My wardens found good mages, Morrigan-wynne-anders-velana, Zathian first*, My Hawkes, Bethany, Anders are good mages aswell, so yeah they are alot of good, strong will mages out there, we just need to find them.

[DPSSOC]

Huntress wrote...
By that way of thinking then all the nobles should be at war with each other by now..  ( yes Arl Howl come to mind)
they already see others nobles as a threat, is  not going to start after the mages get their freedom, it already exist.

Yes and the nobles are all in competition with one another.  In Fereldan for example Banns and Arls compete with one another for the loyalty of free holders to improve their standing, some of them probably also compete with the Teryns (trying to rally enough support to oust the existing Teryn and make themselves one).  There is no reason though that such competition needs to be violent (though it can be) and mage nobility wouldn't change that.  What would change is that, for the most part, the existing nobles are all on equal footing in terms of ability; there isn't something that one of them can do that none others can.  Mage nobles change the landscape though because they do have abilities no one else does.  While normal nobles are a threat to one another they're a threat that can be managed and countered, but mage nobles wouldn't be manageable, it'd be like throwing a heavyweight boxer into the lightweight division; the lightweights could still win but they're at a considerable disadvantage.

Edit:

Huntress wrote...
My wardens found good mages, Morrigan-wynne-anders-velana, Zathian first*, My Hawkes, Bethany, Anders are good mages aswell, so yeah they are alot of good, strong will mages out there, we just need to find them.

Settin' a mighty broad definition of good don't you think?

Modifié par DPSSOC, 26 juin 2011 - 08:31 .

[Mike 9987]

Huntress wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Huntress wrote...


I am not saying people should accept everything you say to them right away, that will be childsh of my part, but  they'll learn how to coop with it and thats what my mages are fighting for, to have a place in THEDAS, not to be seen as a monsters because  they're not.

all the mages of thedas are not "your" mages. Not all of them are as strong willed as hawke or the warden. With no circle, new mages will not be able to be trained properly, thus demons will spring at the chance. 

Mages will teach the new mages, the ones outside of their reach will die, that can't be stoped, that can't be controlled, that will HAPPEN and there is nothing anyone can do.

Only the strongest lives, fight, defend themself and grow thats LIFE.
  Even under the chantry and the circle is happening  and not one can't stop it from happening, Connor been one, Uldreed been another, you can stop them from  hurting and killing people, but you cant prevent them from what they will become.

My wardens found good mages, Morrigan-wynne-anders-velana, Zathian first*, My Hawkes, Bethany, Anders are good mages aswell, so yeah they are alot of good, strong will mages out there, we just need to find them.

And you think the ones you claim will "die" will just sit down and take it? Like samson says, when backed into a corner, mages have options others dont. these will be the ones who begin to summon demons and use blood magic to try and survive. 

you go on to say that there WILL be corrupt people out there. That is kind of proving my point in saying people WILL resort to blood magic and you can not stop it. 

aditionally, anders is a good mage? he obliterated the chantry, murdered a lot of innocent people, and completely obliterated any chance for peace. he knew for a fact meredith would invoke the right without the grand cleric to stop her. it was his plan all along. if he was so strong, he would not have accepted to become an abomination in the first place to help mages. Also, morrigan is no better. she was in it for herself the ENTIRE game. she gives u an ultimatum to release an old god into the world, or she leaves. on top of that, if you refuse to kill flemeth, she leaves aswell. that is not good. 

Modifié par Mike 9987, 26 juin 2011 - 07:15 .

[Huntress]

Mike 9987 wrote...

Huntress wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Huntress wrote...


I am not saying people should accept everything you say to them right away, that will be childsh of my part, but  they'll learn how to coop with it and thats what my mages are fighting for, to have a place in THEDAS, not to be seen as a monsters because  they're not.

all the mages of thedas are not "your" mages. Not all of them are as strong willed as hawke or the warden. With no circle, new mages will not be able to be trained properly, thus demons will spring at the chance. 

Mages will teach the new mages, the ones outside of their reach will die, that can't be stoped, that can't be controlled, that will HAPPEN and there is nothing anyone can do.

Only the strongest lives, fight, defend themself and grow thats LIFE.
  Even under the chantry and the circle is happening  and not one can't stop it from happening, Connor been one, Uldreed been another, you can stop them from  hurting and killing people, but you cant prevent them from what they will become.

My wardens found good mages, Morrigan-wynne-anders-velana, Zathian first*, My Hawkes, Bethany, Anders are good mages aswell, so yeah they are alot of good, strong will mages out there, we just need to find them.

And you think the ones you claim will "die" will just sit down and take it? Like samson says, when backed into a corner, mages have options others dont. these will be the ones who begin to summon demons and use blood magic to try and survive. 

you go on to say that there WILL be corrupt people out there. That is kind of proving my point in saying people WILL resort to blood magic and you can not stop it. 

aditionally, anders is a good mage? he obliterated the chantry, murdered a lot of innocent people, and completely obliterated any chance for peace. he knew for a fact meredith would invoke the right without the grand cleric to stop her. it was his plan all along. if he was so strong, he would not have accepted to become an abomination in the first place to help mages. Also, morrigan is no better. she was in it for herself the ENTIRE game. she gives u an ultimatum to release an old god into the world, or she leaves. on top of that, if you refuse to kill flemeth, she leaves aswell. that is not good. 

I do not think anyone will sit down and take it, just as Anders, my hawke's and my wardens they will fight, what ever the reasons are, people will fight to preserver themself.

I don't know how you came to the conclution that Anders knew how the game was going to end up, I know he has a demon and all but.. wow, if he can see the future why did he waited for so long to remove Meredith in the first place?

Everyone makes mistakes, same goes with Merril in my games she destroy the mirror, same go with Morrigan, in my games she learned what a friend or something close a sister means, you can't judge her or them for what they have done or will do, thats not for you to decide is for them.
I do not see Morrigan as evil, she use the warden yes, and the warden used her to save him/herself from dieying or getting Alistair killed. What ever she do after that, is her choice and none of my warden's have a say on it.

Making mistakes, thats how we grow, Anders knows he made a mistake about Justice, not one but the Warden knows how to separate a demon from a host without killing it or if is even possible after so much time of been possesed. All we can is to tell him: You were wrong.
We can't go back in time and save him from it, we can't stop merril for listening to a demon or convince Morrigan to stop the ritual, WE can't prevent things from happening, thats not how Life works.

Sh** will happen the only thing we can do is learn from it, get killed by it or use it to our advantage.

[Mike 9987]

Huntress wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Huntress wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Huntress wrote...


I am not saying people should accept everything you say to them right away, that will be childsh of my part, but  they'll learn how to coop with it and thats what my mages are fighting for, to have a place in THEDAS, not to be seen as a monsters because  they're not.

all the mages of thedas are not "your" mages. Not all of them are as strong willed as hawke or the warden. With no circle, new mages will not be able to be trained properly, thus demons will spring at the chance. 

Mages will teach the new mages, the ones outside of their reach will die, that can't be stoped, that can't be controlled, that will HAPPEN and there is nothing anyone can do.

Only the strongest lives, fight, defend themself and grow thats LIFE.
  Even under the chantry and the circle is happening  and not one can't stop it from happening, Connor been one, Uldreed been another, you can stop them from  hurting and killing people, but you cant prevent them from what they will become.

My wardens found good mages, Morrigan-wynne-anders-velana, Zathian first*, My Hawkes, Bethany, Anders are good mages aswell, so yeah they are alot of good, strong will mages out there, we just need to find them.

And you think the ones you claim will "die" will just sit down and take it? Like samson says, when backed into a corner, mages have options others dont. these will be the ones who begin to summon demons and use blood magic to try and survive. 

you go on to say that there WILL be corrupt people out there. That is kind of proving my point in saying people WILL resort to blood magic and you can not stop it. 

aditionally, anders is a good mage? he obliterated the chantry, murdered a lot of innocent people, and completely obliterated any chance for peace. he knew for a fact meredith would invoke the right without the grand cleric to stop her. it was his plan all along. if he was so strong, he would not have accepted to become an abomination in the first place to help mages. Also, morrigan is no better. she was in it for herself the ENTIRE game. she gives u an ultimatum to release an old god into the world, or she leaves. on top of that, if you refuse to kill flemeth, she leaves aswell. that is not good. 

I do not think anyone will sit down and take it, just as Anders, my hawke's and my wardens they will fight, what ever the reasons are, people will fight to preserver themself.

I don't know how you came to the conclution that Anders knew how the game was going to end up, I know he has a demon and all but.. wow, if he can see the future why did he waited for so long to remove Meredith in the first place?

Everyone makes mistakes, same goes with Merril in my games she destroy the mirror, same go with Morrigan, in my games she learned what a friend or something close a sister means, you can't judge her or them for what they have done or will do, thats not for you to decide is for them.
I do not see Morrigan as evil, she use the warden yes, and the warden used her to save him/herself from dieying or getting Alistair killed. What ever she do after that, is her choice and none of my warden's have a say on it.

Making mistakes, thats how we grow, Anders knows he made a mistake about Justice, not one but the Warden knows how to separate a demon from a host without killing it or if is even possible after so much time of been possesed. All we can is to tell him: You were wrong.
We can't go back in time and save him from it, we can't stop merril for listening to a demon or convince Morrigan to stop the ritual, WE can't prevent things from happening, thats not how Life works.

Sh** will happen the only thing we can do is learn from it, get killed by it or use it to our advantage.

Not everybody is strong enough to fight the templars. each one of them is trained in neutralizing mages. like i said, they may be too weak, and this is what demons prey on. not everybody fights to preserve themselves alone. countless people are willing die for the welfare of others. if a demon says" ill save all of the mages and help you win the fight" they will agree to the demon no matter the risk, if the mage is lead to believe that not agreeing would lead to the destruction of their loved ones. 

i am not claiming anders can "see" the future. of course he did not "know" for sure how his plan would work out. nobody can do that. i may have exagerated by saying it was his plan "all along" but, he knew what was going to happen the moment he asked hawke to help him. he knew he was going to kill the grand cleric, and he knew meredith's personality enough to know she will invoke the right when the grand cleric was killed by a mage. it has nothing to do with "knowing the future," it has to do with smarts. As for morrigan, yes, she DOES learn the value of friendship or love during the game. Even so, she puts her motives ABOVE that. The warden living is just a side effect of her getting what she wants, an old god. she uses that fact to convince the warden do agree with her. If he/she says no, she leaves. so much for friendship. the comming battle was ferelden's only hope for survival at the moment, and her whining and leaving because she didnt get what she wanted was just BS, and in witch hunt, she still has some sort of plan that is not known yet. she will leave weather the warden comes or not, buting her own motives over the friendship. 

As for making mistakes, blood mages very rarely get a second chance. the demon that gets unleashed from them geting posessed usually kills the person. Merill was lucky she had the keeper to take that death penalty for her. The others will not be as lucky. telling an abomination "your wrong" wont make the demon posessing them say "oops ok back to the fade for me!" the demon wants to get out of the fade, even if it dies in the process. killing it results in the person dieing aswell. either the templars kill the abomination, or the abomination wins the fight and is free. the allied mages wont just drop everything, waste the lyrium, and stop an abomination in a fight, nor with the demon posessing the mage let them. it was possible for connor to be saved becuase the demon wasent fully unleashed. During the war, demons will spring at the chance to exploit their desperate nature for a chance to leave the fade. and mages will always be there to agree if they are desperate enough. 

Modifié par Mike 9987, 26 juin 2011 - 09:29 .

[Huntress]

( Dp)

Modifié par Huntress, 26 juin 2011 - 10:11 .

[Huntress]

"Not everybody is strong enough to fight the templars. each one of them is trained in neutralizing mages. like i said, they may be too weak, and this is what demons prey on. not everybody fights to preserve themselves alone. countless people are willing die for the welfare of others. if a demon says" ill save all of the mages and help you win the fight" they will agree to the demon no matter the risk, if the mage is lead to believe that not agreeing would lead to the destruction of their loved ones. 

i am not claiming anders can "see" the future. of course he did not "know" for sure how his plan would work out. nobody can do that. i may have exagerated by saying it was his plan "all along" but, he knew what was going to happen the moment he asked hawke to help him. he knew he was going to kill the grand cleric, and he knew meredith's personality enough to know she will invoke the right when the grand cleric was killed by a mage. it has nothing to do with "knowing the future," it has to do with smarts. As for morrigan, yes, she DOES learn the value of friendship or love during the game. Even so, she puts her motives ABOVE that. The warden living is just a side effect of her getting what she wants, an old god. she uses that fact to convince the warden do agree with her. If he/she says no, she leaves. so much for friendship. the comming battle was ferelden's only hope for survival at the moment, and her whining and leaving because she didnt get what she wanted was just BS, and in witch hunt, she still has some sort of plan that is not known yet. she will leave weather the warden comes or not, buting her own motives over the friendship. 

As for making mistakes, blood mages very rarely get a second chance. the demon that gets unleashed from them geting posessed usually kills the person. Merill was lucky she had the keeper to take that death penalty for her. The others will not be as lucky. telling an abomination "your wrong" wont make the demon posessing them say "oops ok back to the fade for me!" the demon wants to get out of the fade, even if it dies in the process. killing it results in the person dieing aswell. either the templars kill the abomination, or the abomination wins the fight and is free. the allied mages wont just drop everything, waste the lyrium, and stop an abomination in a fight, nor with the demon posessing the mage let them. it was possible for connor to be saved becuase the demon wasent fully unleashed. During the war, demons will spring at the chance to exploit their desperate nature for a chance to leave the fade. and mages will always be there to agree if they are desperate enough."
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You keep saying not everyone is strong, well Not everyone is weak, and they will fight the templars, they'll look and find allies thats is why they go and adventure, to meet friends and foes. if you kill Anders today in 100 years someone also will take his place and do the same, you can't stop it and wishing and hoping won't make it happens.

He knew that the only way to stop templars from killing more mages under their command was to remove what they see as a inspiration and guidance, thats why he targeted the CHANTRY  because  of what it means to templars, nothing more. yes a priest died so what, many mages had died while the priest was sitting on her thumps waiting for the Maker to guide her.

Morrigan has a plan, the wardens had a plan, flemeth has a plan, Loghain had a plan,  if for any reason none of them get what they wanted, the blight would had won, the warden would have died, morrigan was lost to the warden either way and flemeth would have try to get someone also, there is always someone also that can do it, that will win, that can get what she wants and thats was a Soul of a God.

You keep talking about others, Think about YOU, what YOU want, how to save you'reself, how to survive, how to make people understand you and help you. What others wants is not always what you want isn't? Thas why My hawke mage decided that she wanted to be free, not to be under templars rules, not to wait until they decided when to end her life or make her a tranquil.

If mages deals with demons the only think myhawke can do is destroy it and move out. Sorry this "others" people mistakes are not myhawke fault and she can't do anything about it, why you keep forcing the "Others" people issues? Thats beyong me/myhawke.

Modifié par Huntress, 26 juin 2011 - 10:06 .

[Mike 9987]

Huntress wrote...

"Not everybody is strong enough to fight the templars. each one of them is trained in neutralizing mages. like i said, they may be too weak, and this is what demons prey on. not everybody fights to preserve themselves alone. countless people are willing die for the welfare of others. if a demon says" ill save all of the mages and help you win the fight" they will agree to the demon no matter the risk, if the mage is lead to believe that not agreeing would lead to the destruction of their loved ones. 

i am not claiming anders can "see" the future. of course he did not "know" for sure how his plan would work out. nobody can do that. i may have exagerated by saying it was his plan "all along" but, he knew what was going to happen the moment he asked hawke to help him. he knew he was going to kill the grand cleric, and he knew meredith's personality enough to know she will invoke the right when the grand cleric was killed by a mage. it has nothing to do with "knowing the future," it has to do with smarts. As for morrigan, yes, she DOES learn the value of friendship or love during the game. Even so, she puts her motives ABOVE that. The warden living is just a side effect of her getting what she wants, an old god. she uses that fact to convince the warden do agree with her. If he/she says no, she leaves. so much for friendship. the comming battle was ferelden's only hope for survival at the moment, and her whining and leaving because she didnt get what she wanted was just BS, and in witch hunt, she still has some sort of plan that is not known yet. she will leave weather the warden comes or not, buting her own motives over the friendship. 

As for making mistakes, blood mages very rarely get a second chance. the demon that gets unleashed from them geting posessed usually kills the person. Merill was lucky she had the keeper to take that death penalty for her. The others will not be as lucky. telling an abomination "your wrong" wont make the demon posessing them say "oops ok back to the fade for me!" the demon wants to get out of the fade, even if it dies in the process. killing it results in the person dieing aswell. either the templars kill the abomination, or the abomination wins the fight and is free. the allied mages wont just drop everything, waste the lyrium, and stop an abomination in a fight, nor with the demon posessing the mage let them. it was possible for connor to be saved becuase the demon wasent fully unleashed. During the war, demons will spring at the chance to exploit their desperate nature for a chance to leave the fade. and mages will always be there to agree if they are desperate enough."
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You keep saying not everyone is strong, well Not everyone is weak, and they will fight the templars, they'll look and find allies thats is why they go and adventure, to meet friends and foes. if you kill Anders today in 100 years someone also will take his place and do the same, you can't stop it and wishing and hoping won't make it happens.

He knew that the only way to stop templars from killing more mages under their command was to remove what they see as a inspiration and guidance, thats why he targeted the CHANTRY  because  of what it means to templars, nothing more. yes a priest died so what, many mages had died while the priest was sitting on her thumps waiting for the Maker to guide her.

Morrigan has a plan, the wardens had a plan, flemeth has a plan, Loghain had a plan,  if for any reason none of them get what they wanted, the blight would had won, the warden would have died, morrigan was lost to the warden either way and flemeth would have try to get someone also, there is always someone also that can do it, that will win, that can get what she wants and thats was a Soul of a God.

You keep talking about others, Think about YOU, what YOU want, how to save you'reself, how to survive, how to make people understand you and help you. What others wants is not always what you want isn't? Thas why My hawke mage decided that she wanted to be free, not to be under templars rules, not to wait until they decided when to end her life or make her a tranquil.

If mages deals with demons the only think myhawke can do is destroy it and move out. Sorry this "others" people mistakes are not myhawke fault and she can't do anything about it, why you keep forcing the "Others" people issues? Thats beyong me/myhawke.

im talking about "others" because the OP is asking what the mages in general have on their side. the entire population of thedas does not revolve around the warden and hawke. hawke is not commanding the entire population of mages in war. once they heard of hawke, they found out templars can be defied, and they chose to fight. there is an entire world out there. Yes, the strong ones will fight as they see fit. i agree with that, but weak mages are out there too, and will succom to demons as well as strong mages if the need is great enough. that is their weapon. Take orsino for example. a powerful first-enchanter. even HE succombed to the demons under intense pressure of hopelessness. 

You think anders destroyed the chantry because he thought the templars would stop killing mages when a mage destroys their inspiration and guidance? you dont think they will seek revenge for those who destroyed their inspiration and guidance? he WANTED to start a war. simple as that. he wanted freedom for all mages. 

Modifié par Mike 9987, 26 juin 2011 - 11:27 .

[Huntress]

I don't think Anders destroyed the chantry to stop anything, I know he wanted a quick death for mages or a forced revolution against the templars and the chantry, like I said, others. mages or no, will join for one reason or another, yes there some weak mages, but you cant think about who is weak ignoring that others are strong and want to fight.

Many people in Thedas are weak and not all of them are mages.

When people see and point to Anders, Merril, Uldren, I point, to hawke, Bethany, Velana, when they look for weakness, I look for strenght, they look for bad, I look for good. Doesn't matter, where evil roam/rule, good will come and crush it, thats the way things are, even if good takes 100 years to show up, it will come.

Yes blood-mages-demon-lovers will join the fight, so what, the NOT-blood-mages-demon-lovers will take care of that, they kill them or try to stop them. When you need allies, you don't get the ones who can do harm to the cause because that put morale down and because you lose allies who fears magic, you stick to the ones that think and feel the way you do and try to help.       ( assuming we get to actuall see the war.) Dought it.

Like I said before Both sides will have allies, for one reason or another they'll join the fight, to gain power, to rise a new/old god ( dragon's-tree-huggers-eggplant-sex-pills), to get rich, to be free, to conquer.. as you see many options and I bet many will take that as a good sign, that includes slavers, Qunaries and whatever new enemies shows up.

Like I said before thinking of what others may do is just silly, you can't know! not one knows, and all comes down how every single one of us see this war, starting or ending.

The following comment is pure assuption of my part, but I feel strong thats how is going to happen:

I don't think Hawke will be at the leader of the revolution or take part on it, thats how the game ended hawke left and thats probably final, bioware/writers will make a new charatcer and will ignore 99% of the DAO, DA2. is easier, less blood.
I don't really care, even if I am here, I know that hawke/Wardenmage are not the ones who will give the middle finger to the chantry, that will be some new character and she/he too will be gone and forgotten by the end of act 3.
(I hope am wrong, I really do)

Modifié par Huntress, 27 juin 2011 - 06:09 .

[DKJaigen]

Mike 9987 wrote...

Huntress wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Huntress wrote...


I am not saying people should accept everything you say to them right away, that will be childsh of my part, but  they'll learn how to coop with it and thats what my mages are fighting for, to have a place in THEDAS, not to be seen as a monsters because  they're not.

all the mages of thedas are not "your" mages. Not all of them are as strong willed as hawke or the warden. With no circle, new mages will not be able to be trained properly, thus demons will spring at the chance. 

Mages will teach the new mages, the ones outside of their reach will die, that can't be stoped, that can't be controlled, that will HAPPEN and there is nothing anyone can do.

Only the strongest lives, fight, defend themself and grow thats LIFE.
  Even under the chantry and the circle is happening  and not one can't stop it from happening, Connor been one, Uldreed been another, you can stop them from  hurting and killing people, but you cant prevent them from what they will become.

My wardens found good mages, Morrigan-wynne-anders-velana, Zathian first*, My Hawkes, Bethany, Anders are good mages aswell, so yeah they are alot of good, strong will mages out there, we just need to find them.

And you think the ones you claim will "die" will just sit down and take it? Like samson says, when backed into a corner, mages have options others dont. these will be the ones who begin to summon demons and use blood magic to try and survive. 

you go on to say that there WILL be corrupt people out there. That is kind of proving my point in saying people WILL resort to blood magic and you can not stop it. 

aditionally, anders is a good mage? he obliterated the chantry, murdered a lot of innocent people, and completely obliterated any chance for peace. he knew for a fact meredith would invoke the right without the grand cleric to stop her. it was his plan all along. if he was so strong, he would not have accepted to become an abomination in the first place to help mages. Also, morrigan is no better. she was in it for herself the ENTIRE game. she gives u an ultimatum to release an old god into the world, or she leaves. on top of that, if you refuse to kill flemeth, she leaves aswell. that is not good. 

Lol what a naive view of the world. sometimes innocent people must die for the greater good sometime you must wage war. otherwise you will create far more horrible situations. What Anders did was the right thing to do.

[Huntress]

I don't know from where it came the notion that a war is without any loss..

It is not like you'll get close to the ones you want to overthrown or defeat and ask them to leave.

War is ugly, horrible but nessesary even more if you want to obtain something out of it ( like Freedom)
For all myhawkes war is the only last resort to stop Meredith and what she represent from killing more innocents mages.

[TEWR]

DKJaigen wrote...


Lol what a naive view of the world. sometimes innocent people must die for the greater good sometime you must wage war. otherwise you will create far more horrible situations. What Anders did was the right thing to do.

I think Anders tried to minimize the amount of people killed by his bomb.


For one thing, the bombing happened at night when the Chantry is closed. Also, one of the theories about the bomb that I agree with was that when it sucked everything up into the sky and fired it straight in all directions, it fired it out to the outskirts of Kirkwall. Away from the citizens.

His main target was Elthina, and because of that he tried to minimize the death toll as much as possible. Obviously he still feels guilty about it though.

[River5]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...


Lol what a naive view of the world. sometimes innocent people must die for the greater good sometime you must wage war. otherwise you will create far more horrible situations. What Anders did was the right thing to do.

I think Anders tried to minimize the amount of people killed by his bomb.


For one thing, the bombing happened at night when the Chantry is closed. Also, one of the theories about the bomb that I agree with was that when it sucked everything up into the sky and fired it straight in all directions, it fired it out to the outskirts of Kirkwall. Away from the citizens.

His main target was Elthina, and because of that he tried to minimize the death toll as much as possible. Obviously he still feels guilty about it though.

Elthina and/or any subordinate that could have temporarily assumed the role of Grand Cleric, preventing Meredith from invoking the RoA on the Circle.

[Dean_the_Young]

Huntress wrote...

Neither my mageWarden or my Magehawke will ever do such a thing, Mike 9987. Do not by a moment think every mage will do such a thing.

If they* (My mages*) died fighting, defending what their dear most, LIFE, the RIGHT to LIVE, the RIGHT to choose for themself how to LIVE that LIFE, then that was the price for them.

Right or wrong, people, normal people do not wish to be told, controlled, slaveded by anyone.
To my magewarden and (all) My Hawke's thats what the chantry rules and the Circle ARE.. a Threat to all mages.

...ok, and what about the next bunch of mages over there? The Orisinos?

Clearly MageWarden and MageHawke are exceptional people. Most people, however, are not exceptional.

[TEWR]

River5 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...


Lol what a naive view of the world. sometimes innocent people must die for the greater good sometime you must wage war. otherwise you will create far more horrible situations. What Anders did was the right thing to do.

I think Anders tried to minimize the amount of people killed by his bomb.


For one thing, the bombing happened at night when the Chantry is closed. Also, one of the theories about the bomb that I agree with was that when it sucked everything up into the sky and fired it straight in all directions, it fired it out to the outskirts of Kirkwall. Away from the citizens.

His main target was Elthina, and because of that he tried to minimize the death toll as much as possible. Obviously he still feels guilty about it though.

Elthina and/or any subordinate that could have temporarily assumed the role of Grand Cleric, preventing Meredith from invoking the RoA on the Circle.

true. But all those Chantry sisters live in the Chantry so he got them all.

[Dean_the_Young]

Fewer allies and popular support than the Templars, at the start.

Most of it being relatives of Mages who aren't devout believers in the Chantry, believe the Circle is correct and necessary, or having family issues over conflicts with their mage siblings/childrens/parents whose nature has affected them for the worse. So more Lady Eamons, who put family and personal affections first, and less Arl Eamons who will not.

Fewer in the nobility: primarily those who simply hate the Chantry/Templars first and foremost, who believe they stand to make immediate profit from helping the mages, and those who (for short sightedness, arrogance, or any other reason) don't believe that they would eventually lose power to a victorious mage state.

The greediest merchants and smugglers, who wish to make money off of enchanted wares.

Probably not much Dwarf support: one King doesn't want the Surface at all, and the other is far more self-interested in practical, not ideological, sacrifices.

Demons, abominations, maleficars, apostates, hedge wizards, and other witches who have avoided the Circle's grasp.

Anti-Chantry fanatics of all stripes.

Possible heavy Tevinter support. Also possible Qunari support (under the disguise of Qunari mercenaries?).

Probably not much of the 'common man' overall, on account of the above three.

[DPSSOC]

DKJaigen wrote...
Lol what a naive view of the world. sometimes innocent people must die for the greater good sometime you must wage war. otherwise you will create far more horrible situations. What Anders did was the right thing to do. 

Anders killed innocent people to provoke a confirmed lunatic into killing more innocent people all for the sake of having his war (which will kill more innocent people).  By what stretch of the imagination is that "the right thing to do."