165 réponses à ce sujet

[shadysnorlax]

Il Divo wrote...

The other issue is that you're dealing with uknowns. Let's say Bioware allowed that...you have no idea what sort of dlc they'd produce in the future. Given that fans have already paid their $80, can we take it on good faith that Bioware would want to produce content like LotSB/Overlord? Or at best, would they produce fairly small dlcs on the scale of weapons/AAP packs?

True. Something like that would have to require a lot of trust. BioWare would have to make sure not to screw over the consumers by not going all the way. But I think that there may be a little more leverage to say that BioWare could be trust to some degree. BioWare still puts resources into making DLCs in the first place without the guarantee of making enough money for the resources to be worth it.

For a middle ground, what if they made exclusive limited release edition that was a little bit more in price, but came with all future DLC for free. This would let some people get everything they want for a little cheaper than buying all the DLC in increments, some people would be able to pick and choose what DLC they want just like now, and some people will be able to just pay for the cheaper version to get the bare vanilla model. This scheme would also ensure that BioWare continue to make top quality content because they can get more profit from the people who have yet to buy DLC.

[Drimberly]

Zaeed: cerberus key
Shale: missed relese date + comes with copy from steam
Kasumi: Ok. you win. The usual.
Sebastian: DA2 . You just answered your own question.

[Paul Sedgmore]

KLUME777 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

however sabastian from DA2 i had an issue with because he only came "free" in the more expensive collectors edition and for people who got normal new copies they had to pay 10 extra bucks to have him, which was ridiculous. especially since they announced him as the collectors bonus a good 5-8 months before release, which woulda been plenty of time to actually put him in the damn game or at least as a free download.

payed DLC on day one shouldnt be really influential characters. it should be a extra little adventure quest. like wardens keep in DA:O

Actually the signature edition was the same price as the normal version you just had to pre-order before a certain date to be able to get it. I agree that the Exiled Prince DLC should have been free for all new copies of the game though.

IIRC the DA2 SE ended up being cheaper than the normal edition, if you ordered it before the price change.

I can get DA2 brand new Day 1 at Kmart, Big W, JB-HI-FI for $70, while the SE is $120 at EB Games, Game (I live in Australia of coarse, but you would have a similar situation with Walmart or something in the US). Therefore, SE is more expensive, and i have to trust that the game is good a month before the release. That is not a good deal, the DLC character should have been with normal editions (because not everyone is gonna pre-order a whole month before). Bioware were looking for a new crowd, those aren't going to come in Pre-orders, there going to come from new game sales.

Strange the whole idea of the SE was that it was a pre-order bonus for those pre-ordering before January, not a special edition as such. Not sure why Australia sold it as a seperate edition.

[Darth Death]

Siegdrifa wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

Tachai03 wrote...

Personally, I think DLC is BS. Reason being: Why am I paying money for content that should have been in the game to begin with? What do I mean by this?

Let's take LoTSB, Arrival and the other mission DLCs for example. From what I've heard, ME3 will assume that you have these DLCs and make Liara the new shadow broker, and Shepard will be held on trial. Wait.. What? People argue that DLC is completely optional, and I agree: if I don't want DLC I simply do not pay for it and move on... But when DLC is actually part of the plot for the sequel, don't you think it's unreasonable that it's not included with the rest of the game?

I feel it's unfair that I will miss out on the story that *should* have been a part of the game because I didn't want to shell out another $20 on a game I payed $60 for. If it's something stupid like the Dr. Pepper promo items or squad uniform changes and or additional minor squaddies, fine - make it DLC. It's something that I do not need to play the game. But when it's actually something significant? No. That's ridiculous.

Dead on. LoTSB should have been included in the game since the content involved the player having the chance to romance Liara again. The fact that BioWare decided to release it later caused many players (including myself) to cheat on Liara for Tali. The players that romance her in the first game thought she'd moved on & wasn't interested in Shepard. I hated it when I tried to romance her again, resulting in Liara bring up Tali in the discussion. And I also hated breaking up with tali because of the backlash. I felt the LoTSB should have been in the final from the get go.

Arrival is a different story. I felt BioWare was correct in their judgement to release it as DLC, seeing how the content links ME2 to ME3. With that said I'm over DLC. Please consider the idea of an expansion pack of sorts.

How can a content not finished after 7 month from the release date could have been included in the game?
All the "ready at day 0" or few days later were free on brand new games.

In case you didn't know, before releasing ME1 they knew what would happen in futur ME games (even beyond ME3), there was no reason to wait.
They knew they would make Kasumi, Shodow broker and such, but definitly not during the time spend to make ME2, you just need to look at the DLC graphic and level buiding to know it's more advanced and different from ME2. Level building in their DLC are better.

If you wanted to have an ME2 with all dlc that was planed, released only when every thing was ready, than ME2 would have been released at the end of 2010 instead of begining of 2010.

Its called "being rushed" which is the norm for BioWare as of late. I wouldn't mind waiting a few more months so that BioWare could include everything instead of charging for DLC later. It always amazes me of certain individuals who just don't care or unable to comprehend the simple truth. 

[CannonO]

Guns wrote...

I don't like buying gas. Guess I should just stop going to work.

What the heck kind of comment is this?

Personally, I hate when the story seems written specifically with the core group in marketing, trailers, and mind when the game was developed and then they have these DLC characters that are basically stamped in my mind as tacked on and not a REAL part of the story. They are downloadable because they are minor and unnecessary since they aren't really part of the story that BioWare is telling.

So I play the game first without them, then on following playthroughs I giggle at how much less of a character they are compared to dialogue, history, and presence of all original characters in the story. They just don't quite sit right in the story.

[Siegdrifa]

Darth Death wrote...

Siegdrifa wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

Tachai03 wrote...

Personally, I think DLC is BS. Reason being: Why am I paying money for content that should have been in the game to begin with? What do I mean by this?

Let's take LoTSB, Arrival and the other mission DLCs for example. From what I've heard, ME3 will assume that you have these DLCs and make Liara the new shadow broker, and Shepard will be held on trial. Wait.. What? People argue that DLC is completely optional, and I agree: if I don't want DLC I simply do not pay for it and move on... But when DLC is actually part of the plot for the sequel, don't you think it's unreasonable that it's not included with the rest of the game?

I feel it's unfair that I will miss out on the story that *should* have been a part of the game because I didn't want to shell out another $20 on a game I payed $60 for. If it's something stupid like the Dr. Pepper promo items or squad uniform changes and or additional minor squaddies, fine - make it DLC. It's something that I do not need to play the game. But when it's actually something significant? No. That's ridiculous.

Dead on. LoTSB should have been included in the game since the content involved the player having the chance to romance Liara again. The fact that BioWare decided to release it later caused many players (including myself) to cheat on Liara for Tali. The players that romance her in the first game thought she'd moved on & wasn't interested in Shepard. I hated it when I tried to romance her again, resulting in Liara bring up Tali in the discussion. And I also hated breaking up with tali because of the backlash. I felt the LoTSB should have been in the final from the get go.

Arrival is a different story. I felt BioWare was correct in their judgement to release it as DLC, seeing how the content links ME2 to ME3. With that said I'm over DLC. Please consider the idea of an expansion pack of sorts.

How can a content not finished after 7 month from the release date could have been included in the game?
All the "ready at day 0" or few days later were free on brand new games.

In case you didn't know, before releasing ME1 they knew what would happen in futur ME games (even beyond ME3), there was no reason to wait.
They knew they would make Kasumi, Shodow broker and such, but definitly not during the time spend to make ME2, you just need to look at the DLC graphic and level buiding to know it's more advanced and different from ME2. Level building in their DLC are better.

If you wanted to have an ME2 with all dlc that was planed, released only when every thing was ready, than ME2 would have been released at the end of 2010 instead of begining of 2010.

Its called "being rushed" which is the norm for BioWare as of late. I wouldn't mind waiting a few more months so that BioWare could include everything instead of charging for DLC later. It always amazes me of certain individuals who just don't care or unable to comprehend the simple truth. 

The simple truth is, game rarely come out with 100% of the contant planed by the dev, before dlc and quick update, all those contant that wasn't finished or couldn't be integrated in the game before release (because it's done modleing doesn't mean it's integrated and without bug) were just put to the bin, or if it was fortunate, a second version of game was made month later and was often labeled director cut in the title.

There is dead line, like it or not, and when you go over the dead line the dev can suffer financial penalty for every day beyond the dead line, and it's not just a few $ we are talking about.

As i wouldn't have minded to wait longer for DA2 to be released since there is so many reused area, i don't see why ME2 needed more delay, gameplay was smoth and polished, the game seems to be long enough (it is longer than ME1 minus the waste of time of ME1 subquest... so rougly 50% of the game).

All DLC exept for Kasumi where not needed to the main subject of ME2, wich was, build a team, kick the bad alien's ass. Other story dlc are good and fun bonus to had to the game.

You said it wasn't included because it was rushed, that's a mistake, it's because they choose to release it as dlc that they are polished. If Bioware was in a hurry and still had to put all those dlc (doesn't mean they plainned to put it in the main game to begin with ! until Bioware say so) LOSB wouldn't have been that good.


In case you didn't notice, Nearly all DLC came with brand new texture and environement, while in ME2 you can see the same kind of texture here and their, it's proof they took their time to put quality in their dlc, because some building, texture and level building can't be seen anywhere else.

[AlanC9]

Darth Death wrote...

Siegdrifa wrote...

Darth Death wrote...
Dead on. LoTSB should have been included in the game since the content involved the player having the chance to romance Liara again. The fact that BioWare decided to release it later caused many players (including myself) to cheat on Liara for Tali. The players that romance her in the first game thought she'd moved on & wasn't interested in Shepard. I hated it when I tried to romance her again, resulting in Liara bring up Tali in the discussion. And I also hated breaking up with tali because of the backlash. I felt the LoTSB should have been in the final from the get go.

Arrival is a different story. I felt BioWare was correct in their judgement to release it as DLC, seeing how the content links ME2 to ME3. With that said I'm over DLC. Please consider the idea of an expansion pack of sorts.

How can a content not finished after 7 month from the release date could have been included in the game?
All the "ready at day 0" or few days later were free on brand new games.

In case you didn't know, before releasing ME1 they knew what would happen in futur ME games (even beyond ME3), there was no reason to wait.
They knew they would make Kasumi, Shodow broker and such, but definitly not during the time spend to make ME2, you just need to look at the DLC graphic and level buiding to know it's more advanced and different from ME2. Level building in their DLC are better.

If you wanted to have an ME2 with all dlc that was planed, released only when every thing was ready, than ME2 would have been released at the end of 2010 instead of begining of 2010.

Its called "being rushed" which is the norm for BioWare as of late. I wouldn't mind waiting a few more months so that BioWare could include everything instead of charging for DLC later. It always amazes me of certain individuals who just don't care or unable to comprehend the simple truth. 

You're assuming that without DLC the stuff that became DLC would have been put into ME2 proper, rather than simply never being made at all. On what evidence are you assuming that?

And personally, I preferred having ME2 released earlier.

Modifié par AlanC9, 21 juin 2011 - 06:03 .

[KLUME777]

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

Exactly.  DLC is the same as expansions, just it's split up sometimes.  Instead of getting LotSB and Overlord and Arrival all at once for $30 on a disc labeled "Mass Effect 2 expansion" you download them as three parts for $10 each.  Same $30 either way, and these are just as optional as, say you played Starcraft. Did you refuse to buy Starcraft : Brood War because it should have been shipped as complete with the original game? 

But that's not how EA are using them now, is it?

Just take a look at DA2 and how you get a different end product based entirely on how you bought the product, or what other products you buy alongside it to see the difference.

The actual end product called "DA2" which a user ended up with depended entirely on which hoops he went through.
Go through the list at "http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Downloadable_content_(Dragon_Age_II)" and realize that DLCs are being used by EA to obscure the price of endproduct you as a consumer get if you set out to "just wanna buy" DA2. Since each DLC variation constitues a different endproduct, the precise product you actually want to buy ends up being reliant on a host of factors that aren't immediately visible in the listed price.

I'm using DA2 as an example, because it is a rather clearcut showing of what they are doing regarding "price clarity", and I cannot see them change anything for the future unless attention gets brought to the issue.

EA are doing this with all of their games, and it really p***es me off. Before i visited the Dead Space 2 and Mass Effect 2 section of Playstation Store. For DS2 they have multiplayer map packs! and weapon packs and all this crap, and ME2 had all up about 8 weapon and armour packs! I mean, seriously EA? i can't believe where getting map packs for a game that should never even have multiplayer. I hate all the DLC EA puts out, its sickening.

The only DLC ive ever liked this gen is everything released from Bethesda, thats just pure gold. Some of DAO's was ok, but it missed the mark a bit. I don't have ME2 dlc, ME isn't a massive series for me, but i might get them before ME3.

All videogames should look to Bethesda if they want to see how to make a DLC (and they're expansion packs, really).

Did you forget the Horse Armour for Oblivion? http://oblivion.wiki...iki/Horse_Armor

Nope, us PS3 players never got Horse armour, but we all got Knights of the Nine for free (it was on everyone's disc) and Shivering Isles on the GOTY edition . 

[KLUME777]

Il Divo wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

All videogames should look to Bethesda if they want to see how to make a DLC (and they're expansion packs, really).

Are you kidding me? Do you know how much heat Bethesda took over Oblivion's house dlcs? How about Horse armor? Spell-tomes? About half of the Fallout 3 dlcs met with their own criticisms (Operation: Anchorage, Mothership Zeta).

If you don't want dlc, simply don't buy it. No one is forcing you to do so.

Shivering isles, Fallout 3 and NV's DLC are way better than anything Bioware have made. I've loved all of Fallout 3 and NV's DLC so far, had no criticisms apart from MZ (and yes, i loved O:A), which is better than anything EA has s*** out.

[KLUME777]

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

however sabastian from DA2 i had an issue with because he only came "free" in the more expensive collectors edition and for people who got normal new copies they had to pay 10 extra bucks to have him, which was ridiculous. especially since they announced him as the collectors bonus a good 5-8 months before release, which woulda been plenty of time to actually put him in the damn game or at least as a free download.

payed DLC on day one shouldnt be really influential characters. it should be a extra little adventure quest. like wardens keep in DA:O

Actually the signature edition was the same price as the normal version you just had to pre-order before a certain date to be able to get it. I agree that the Exiled Prince DLC should have been free for all new copies of the game though.

IIRC the DA2 SE ended up being cheaper than the normal edition, if you ordered it before the price change.

I can get DA2 brand new Day 1 at Kmart, Big W, JB-HI-FI for $70, while the SE is $120 at EB Games, Game (I live in Australia of coarse, but you would have a similar situation with Walmart or something in the US). Therefore, SE is more expensive, and i have to trust that the game is good a month before the release. That is not a good deal, the DLC character should have been with normal editions (because not everyone is gonna pre-order a whole month before). Bioware were looking for a new crowd, those aren't going to come in Pre-orders, there going to come from new game sales.

Strange the whole idea of the SE was that it was a pre-order bonus for those pre-ordering before January, not a special edition as such. Not sure why Australia sold it as a seperate edition.

Day 1, i said. I can't do that now, but it costed $120 to get the pre-order SE, but only $70 on day 1 at the above stores. SE is more expensive.

[AlanC9]

In the US the SE wasn't a separate product. Order early enough and you got the SE.

[KLUME777]

In Exile wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...
Customer satisfaction leads to sales in the long term.

Convincing an American business of this is a little like defeating the reapers with a sling-slot. Just look at the US auto industry pre-recession. The entire business model is build on short-term reward.

Can you elaborate on that a little, I don't know how the auto-industry works in America. However, Australia and America are more similar in a lot of ways than America and other places (like Europe). I think the Auto-industry is too different than videogames too compare though (WAY more expensive and longer lasting are factors).

And i think your wrong, just look at Bethesda's recent sales and CoD. Some of that is due to marketing, but the majority of the audience of those games are pleased and so they stay on with the series (that is how CoD got so big in the first place, customer satisfaction with CoD 1 and CoD 4 online). Im guessing DA3 will not have nearly as may pre-orders as DA2 got because most people are disilussioned with DA after being exposed to DA2. They pre-ordered DA2 though because they were satisfied with DAO.

I won't be getting a new copy of DA3, and i dont care about missing out on a DLC character, because after seeing the quality of Zaeed and Sebastien, i couldn't care less. I didn't buy Kasumi. I did really like Shale though, and if Bioware had put that much effort in for the recent bonus characters that they did for Shale, i would care about getting new bonus characters. But Bioware doesn't.

I think the fact Zaeed and Kasumi are lower quality shows the fact they were separate from the main game, because otherwise, why would Bioware cut all companion conversations, something that is essentially their staple?

I didn't argue that they were cut from the main game, i said they were marked as DLC characters from the beginning (sebastian certainly was). Which is bad, because they're so crap, they're not an incentive for me anymore, in fact, they've driven me to buy pre-owned to show Bioware that i don't support it. Shale was really good though, and if they go back to the Shale standard (who wasn't marked as DLC, just didn't make the dev time) then i'll come back (of coarse, there are other factors, like the quality of the actual game).

Juhani has more input in the game later on than HK (and most of the non-force-users). Juhani is much more important than HK. While you can kill Juhani, it's impossible to bypass her, which is easy to do with HK.

I'm pointing out that any mercilesss RPer would have avoided Juhani, and she is optional in the sense that if you kill her, she's not a part of the game (unlike Carth, Mission, Zalbar, TM, Bastilla or Canderous).

I think we can agree that they are both equal candidates for a DLC character then. Either way the question remains the same, it would suck if they were a DLC character, and the game would not be as good quality.

Im sure that the popularity and demand of Games in Australia is equal (as percentage) to America. They are extremely popular here, they are just very, very expensive. Also, call me an idiot, but what is VAT, and what's it stand for?

I don't know anything about the video-game market; I'm just offering a reason other than a potential 'screw the customer'. Maybe you're right.

Ok.

[KLUME777]

AlanC9 wrote...

In the US the SE wasn't a separate product. Order early enough and you got the SE.

No, its the same here as in the US, it costs $120 to pre-order any normal version at EB Games and $120 to pre-order the SE at EB Games. Games are $120 at EB Games/Game/Gametraders. Its just that i can get it new for way cheaper at a different store on day 1, so for me, it is more expensive.

[Aradace]

KLUME777 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

In the US the SE wasn't a separate product. Order early enough and you got the SE.

No, its the same here as in the US, it costs $120 to pre-order any normal version at EB Games and $120 to pre-order the SE at EB Games. Games are $120 at EB Games/Game/Gametraders. Its just that i can get it new for way cheaper at a different store on day 1, so for me, it is more expensive.

You paid $120 for you SE? Wow, you totally got hosed lol.  I didnt have to pay any extra for mine.  Then again, that's because I got my pre-order in time to get "automagically" upgraded to SE for no extra cost.

[Gatt9]

Drimberly wrote...

Zaeed: cerberus key
Shale: missed relese date + comes with copy from steam
Kasumi: Ok. you win. The usual.
Sebastian: DA2 . You just answered your own question.

Shale wasn't a missed release date. The game was done months before it was released, it got held up because EA demanded console versions. Looks to me like it was cut just to be able to sell it since it was there on day 1.

[Il Divo]

KLUME777 wrote...

Shivering isles, Fallout 3 and NV's DLC are way better than anything Bioware have made. I've loved all of Fallout 3 and NV's DLC so far, had no criticisms apart from MZ (and yes, i loved O:A), which is better than anything EA has s*** out.

Wait, you're comparing a full expansion... And then you wonder why it appears that Bethesda makes better dlc?
 
I also couldn't stand most of Fallout 3's downloadable content, aside from Point Lookout. Mothership Zeta was disappointing and Broken Steel a weak attempt at continuing the main quest.

Modifié par Il Divo, 21 juin 2011 - 12:03 .