245 réponses à ce sujet

[Slayer299]

onelifecrisis wrote...

I don't see how the definition becomes any clearer on account of being from Mirriam-Webster; a schoolyard bully still fits their definition.

Because 'intimidation to achieve a political goal;' is not the same thing as the motivation of a schoolyard bully, do not play obtuse. If you do not like the definition as given, that what is your definition of the word? Since its obviously different.

[sam726]

Dave of Canada wrote...

sam726 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Oh hey, another anti-Cerberus thread. Just what we needed.

Read the start of the thread. It was about something completely different from what it is now. So no, it wasn't an anti Cerberus thread.

I did, though almost all anti-Cerberus threads are formed when people hijack anything Cerberus related.

 then i apologise for misunderstanding you. And to others, Cerberus = Section 31?

[Inquisitor Recon]

Luc0s wrote...
Cerberus are terrorists. No doubt about it.

Over the years I've done a good deal of cacademic work related to the study of terrorism and counter-terrorism.
What may be a simple definition in theory is never so in practice. In reality the details vary greatly from organization to organization, from country to country. So do the views of what qualifies as a terrorist organization and what doesn't.

On the surface you could argue Cerberus is a terrorist organization based on their use of violence to achieve political change. Yet Cerberus is clearly one of those organizations that blurrs the line between being a terrorist group, a criminal group, and a lawful organization. A colonist who was saved by Cerberus efforts probably wouldn't think of them as terrorists for example. We don't know their motivations in ME3 yet either.

[khordlambert]

Saphra Deden wrote...

khordlambert wrote...


Yeah, a good number of these comparisons don't really work. Blue Suns are an amoral group of barely professional psychopaths, the Krogan would've conqured the galaxy....

Yeah, and Cerberus are pro-active pro-human group who saved humanity from the Collectors. I'm sure any colonist who was saved by Cerberus' anti-Collector campaign appreciates the groups work and what it stands for.

Considering a few of Cerberus' screwups nearly wiped out those same colonists (The Rachni and Project Overlord for precise examples.) I kinda doubt they would be that greatful. Especially considering Horizon was nearly wiped out after dear old TIM let some intel slip to the Collectors. (I also note you didn't answer my question as to weither or not you would sacrifice you and your loved ones for Cerberus' goals.)

Also, just what does Cerberus stand for? You and TIM claim they stand for humanity and have a pro-human agenda. But the people telling us this are either already pro-cerberus or TIM himself, both of which are dubious claims considering Cerberus has a higher human body count than Saren's campaign, and then there is TIM's little "Cerberus IS humanity" tantrum.

I'd say Cerberus is more Pro-TIM than pro-humanity.

[khordlambert]

DP.

Modifié par khordlambert, 20 juin 2011 - 07:49 .

[Slayer299]

Saphra, you say that you'd die for humanity and that's all well and good. But are you willing to throw others, who may not choose to die for you (or humanity) as they want to live, under the Cerberus bus? And if so, where does it end? Where do you draw the line and say...'enough'?

As for Archer, the operative word here is "used", Archer was a man without ethics/morals if that was what he does to 'family'. I shudder to think what he would do to anyone else.

Lastly, you say that Cerberus' projects haven't put colonists at risk? I guess you forgot about Chasca then.

[MasterofMunchaster]

Art3mShepard wrote...

It's a game. In real life none would use white armor too.

quite a lot of scenery in ME is white..

[Jedi31293]

Dannyboy9876 wrote...

It's logical.

Al'Qaeda shout gibberish related to Allah just before they blow.

That "gibberish" happens to be a very common phrase used by all Muslims, not just radicals. So next time, I suggest you dip into your vocabulary and choose some more suitable words when describing another culture's religious aspects, preferably ones that do not insult said culture.

[Tup3x]

[quote]Art3mShepard wrote...

It's a game. In real life none would use white armor too.[/quote]

[/quote]Yeah, sure... You forget all urban and snow camos.

[onelifecrisis]

Slayer299 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

I don't see how the definition becomes any clearer on account of being from Mirriam-Webster; a schoolyard bully still fits their definition.

Because 'intimidation to achieve a political goal;' is not the same thing as the motivation of a schoolyard bully, do not play obtuse. If you do not like the definition as given, that what is your definition of the word? Since its obviously different.

Read better. The definition given was (and I quote) "1.systematic use of violence and intimidation to achieve some goal"

I don't see the word "political" anywhere in there. Putting it in does somewhat clarify the definition, though.

My own definition? Terrorism: violence intended to create widespread public fear (terror) for use as leverage.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 20 juin 2011 - 02:25 .

[Art3m]

[quote]Tup3xi wrote...

[quote]Art3mShepard wrote...

It's a game. In real life none would use white armor too.[/quote]

[/quote]Yeah, sure... You forget all urban and snow camos.


[/quote]

Hey I mentioned summer cammo. I haven't seen any snow in teh demo. And i'm pretty convinced this troops would be equiped with white cammo in the jungle. Stop poking at my words guys:) Btw urban is grey and\\or blue so it's okay with those in game;)

Modifié par Art3mShepard, 20 juin 2011 - 02:26 .

[MasterofMunchaster]

[quote]Art3mShepard wrote...

[quote]Tup3xi wrote...

[quote]Art3mShepard wrote...

It's a game. In real life none would use white armor too.[/quote]

[/quote]Yeah, sure... You forget all urban and snow camos.


[/quote]

Hey I mentioned summer cammo. I haven't seen any snow in teh demo. And i'm pretty convinced this troops would be equiped with white cammo in the jungle. Stop poking at my words guys:) Btw urban is grey andor blue so it's okay with those in game;)

[/quote]

We wouldn't be poking at your words if you wouldn't say such dumb ****. Have you seen the Demo? Have you seen Sur' Kesh? Have you seen the Cerberus Armor?
Seemed as two similar colors to me..

[Art3m]

I'm not going to flamewar here. I think we just see the game ..differentely. And yes i have seen it.

[Antivenger]

Colour-camouflage would be redundant. Standard armament in the MEverse have smart targeting.

Modifié par Antivenger, 20 juin 2011 - 02:50 .

[Someone With Mass]

Antivenger wrote...

Colour-camouflage would be redundant. Standard armament in the MEverse have smart targeting.

You can't aim towards it, if you can't see it.

And the smart targeting system is just there to stabilize the shot and give better accuracy. It's not like they can just shoot at a guy's general direction and hit him.

[Flashlegend]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Antivenger wrote...

Colour-camouflage would be redundant. Standard armament in the MEverse have smart targeting.

You can't aim towards it, if you can't see it.

And the smart targeting system is just there to stabilize the shot and give better accuracy. It's not like they can just shoot at a guy's general direction and hit him.

The books suggest differently.

[Someone With Mass]

Flashlegend wrote...

The books suggest differently.

Well, the books are garbage when it comes to details like that.

Especially the last one. I've read better fanfiction.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 20 juin 2011 - 03:06 .

[Flashlegend]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Flashlegend wrote...

The books suggest differently.

Well, the books are garbage when it comes to details like that.

Especially the last one. I've read better fanfiction.

lol maybe, but canon is still canon.

[javierabegazo]

Are people taking the books and Cerberus' deeds in them into the account of whether or not Cerberus is a terrorist organization?

What they did on the Quarian flotilla was quite a terrorist action, resulting in the deaths of many, and was directly sanctioned by TIM, not by some rogue cell.

[Someone With Mass]

Both the Alliance and the Citadel Council has declared Cerberus to be a terrorist organization as well. Sure, they might think they're something else, but that's not what the government thinks.

[onelifecrisis]

javierabegazo wrote...

Are people taking the books and Cerberus' deeds in them into the account of whether or not Cerberus is a terrorist organization?

What they did on the Quarian flotilla was quite a terrorist action, resulting in the deaths of many, and was directly sanctioned by TIM, not by some rogue cell.

I haven't read any ME books or comics. Furthermore, I don't think I should have to. They should be optional extra reading, not required reading.

That said, I'm curious: was the attack on the flotilla intended to create fear and panic? Because if fear was a side-effect, rather than the actual objective, then it's not really terrorism in my book.

[Someone With Mass]

onelifecrisis wrote...
That said, I'm curious: was the attack on the flotilla intended to create fear and panic? Because if fear was a side-effect, rather than the actual objective, then it's not really terrorism in my book.

They left a bomb on the ship they tried to infiltrate when they had no reason to do so whatsoever. 

[onelifecrisis]

Someone With Mass wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...
That said, I'm curious: was the attack on the flotilla intended to create fear and panic? Because if fear was a side-effect, rather than the actual objective, then it's not really terrorism in my book.

They left a bomb on the ship they tried to infiltrate when they had no reason to do so whatsoever. 

For no reason at all? That's just... bad writing. Even terrorists have reasons for what they do, though the US government would like you to think otherwise. Not necessarily very good reasons, but reasons.