140 réponses à ce sujet

[trademark2]

i like all the characters ive met so far anders, varrick, bethany and leliana i think...

[Chiramu]

Hate threads are popular. The Fenris Hate thread in the companion forum is still going strong >.>...

[Blood-Lord Thanatos]

Chiramu wrote...

Hate threads are popular. The Fenris Hate thread in the companion forum is still going strong >.>...

Sadly, The Dark Side is Strong here.

[Abispa]

No matter what your views are, be they on DA2, politics, sex, religion, or whatever, the internet is a great place to find others who share your views and make what was once a lonely complainer part of complaining community. There is a tendency for people to preach to the already converted, and the "courage" to hurl insults that can only come with anonymity.

[chelseaisthepan]

Because it's fun to complain!

[RangerSG]

Honestly, I don't think any of the companions in DA2 are a bad joke like Oghren was in DA:O. And while I'm disappointed that Anders in DA2 is nothing like DA:A Anders, he makes sense in the plot. I dislike Fenris, but I understand his hang-up. All the other characters I like.

I think the issue of reduced opportunities for party chat was a mistake, and that's influenced the hate threads. But really, the party NPCs were well written, by and large.

[lofte_2000]

I think I personally would have liked my companions more in DA2 if they had more interaction with Hawke, having to go back to wherever they lived etc. was a nice touch especially if discussing a private or personal matter with Hawke but there weren't any options really to talk to your companions anywhere else...hope I'm making sense here.  Other than Anders whom we know from Awakening...I don't feel like I really got to know these new companions as well as the companions in DA:O.

Modifié par lofte_2000, 21 juin 2011 - 10:27 .

[Perles75]

ISI-Society wrote...

EDIT: Whoops ... looks like I replied to a post that was subsequently removed.  Perle - PM me if you'd like to ro remove mine too.

Perles75 wrote...

ISI-Society wrote...

However, that doesn't detract in any way from some of the criticisms leveled at DA2, regarding the ill-advised decision to 'truncate' the player's ability to interact with their companions. That, to me, ran directly contrary to one of the central purposes/attractions of RPG gaming.

The supposed greater interactive possibility of DAO seems to me mostly fake. In the sense: it's true that you could speak with your companions at any time, but usually, after the two or three dialogues that really matter (that in DA2 are just trasfered to the companions' homes, not eliminated) it is just the same lines repeated all the time.
I don't consider this an "enhanced interaction".

The whole point of pre-written RPG material (and pre-scripted artificial intelligence dialog, as long as we're on the same point) is to provide the reader/interactor with an evocative emotional framework that invites them to emotionally engage and interact ... even though nobody is actually there. 

Artificial Intelligence interfaces have the same goals and underpinnings, and as with the game, if you're coding an AI persona for people to interact with, you will not succeed in creating good 'linkage' with a user if you:

* Fail to provide an attractive/interesting persona that the user is comfortable making a 'suspension of disbelief' for, and ...
* Fail to provide some well designed and appropriate paths for interaction that will adequately anticipate and facilitate the choices the user would follow if they were interacting with a real person instead of the illusion you're providing.

My point is that DAO did a somewhat better job of providing virtual players for the gamer to play 'virtual doll house' with (and yes, I know that RPGers hate that sort of analogy, but it's inescapably apt, so deal with it).  In DAO, you have more abilities to change the gear and attire of your 'dolls', and the number and variety of interaction points with each character is greater, whereas in DA2 you can only alter the attire of your main character and only some of the weapons of the rest of the party ... and the interaction points are fewer.  Also, the illusion of having an affect on your party members seemed a bit better to me in DAO, whereas in DA2 I was left feeling like I'd had no effect on most of them.

Just to illustrate, remember the interactions at the end of the coronation scene in DAO ?  Without giving away any spoilers, Oghren (for example) had some things to say that provided a nice emotional payoff, and to a lesser degree so did some of the others.  There was much less of that coded into the end of DA2, and I missed it.  Avaline's "The Long Road" quest is precisely the sort of thing I'd have liked to have seen much more of in DA2, because that's the sort of thing that invites players to connect with (and foster the illusion of affecting) the virtual players they've invested their time into.  I'd have also liked to have seen some decision paths that have more of an affect - such as what happened with Alistair in DAO.

Sorry, which post removed? ^^

Anyway, to answer... I understand your point, but I think the key is the word "illusion" that you use. The level of interaction with the companions is more or less the same between DAO and DA2; in DAO there is only a smokescreen that fakes something more, and frankly I want more than that!
I think it's time to move away from illusions of interactivity and to apply a real (or realistic) frame of interaction. Which one? well, think about our world: apart from random chitchat, one can have discussions after witnessing an event, or entering in a new location. Discussion that can be started by you or directly by that companion. The problem is that this kind of interaction needs also a greater interaction of you and/or the group with the surrounding world, that I sorely miss in DA2 (much more than the one with the companions, that has anyway some good moments).

Note that I am referring exclusively to the dialogues... I also didn't like the fixed companion armor (it's fine for me if you want to keep the appearance of the companions coherent with their style throughout the game, but at least give me a lot of possibilities of customization, not just 4 armor enhancements in three acts!), and it is true that you also lack some interactive adventures as "The long road".

[lofte_2000]

I think it's time to move away from illusions of interactivity and to apply a real (or realistic) frame of interaction. Which one? well, think about our world: apart from random chitchat, one can have discussions after witnessing an event, or entering in a new location. Discussion that can be started by you or directly by that companion. The problem is that this kind of interaction needs also a greater interaction of you and/or the group with the surrounding world, that I sorely miss in DA2 (much more than the one with the companions, that has anyway some good moments).

Note that I am referring exclusively to the dialogues... I also didn't like the fixed companion armor (it's fine for me if you want to keep the appearance of the companions coherent with their style throughout the game, but at least give me a lot of possibilities of customization, not just 4 armor enhancements in three acts!), and it is true that you also lack some interactive adventures as "The long road".

I agree with that part, more one on one conversations, inititiated by the player character or a companion after a major event has taken place seems more realistic. Same goes for entry into a new area/region and so on.  Sometimes dialogue in DA2 didn't feel natural and somewhat forced (but not always.)

[ChoirChronos]

Chiramu wrote...

Hate threads are popular. The Fenris Hate thread in the companion forum is still going strong >.>...

I don't really get all the venom with Fenris either.  He's a doll baby .  

[TheAwesomologist]

The companion characters were the saving grace of DA2, and even they had their issues. Besides wanting more and better interactions with them they helped make the game feel alive as opposed to dead and static Kirkwall. I never cared for Fenris, he seemed like a tacked on character, much the same way as Sebastian. I hate Anders, mostly because he was annoying as hell but the only supporter for most of the game. Then there's the whole part where it turns out DA2 was all about him and his agenda... However I don't blame the character there, just the story.

[lofte_2000]

All in all I think the party characters/companions were fine, it's just the interaction with them that's in my opinion, kinda lacking, didn't get to know them or their characters well enough (minus Varric - he was well written)...once again this is only my opinion.

Modifié par lofte_2000, 21 juin 2011 - 07:35 .

[DaiyoukaiGeisha]

The companions/LIs/and party banter are the ONLY reasons why I'll consider purchasing a DLC or have an interest in DA 3. The companions saved the game for me. Making the other issues I have in the game a hell of a lot more bearable.

They were all well-voiced. However, I do agree with others that there was a lack of interaction and later "substance" in terms of the writing...I know Sebastian was a DLC introduced character but in comparison to Shale's DLC his interactions and writing were exceptionally shallow. Well-voiced (I Paul Atriedes) and very nice character design *wiggles eyebrows*, but shallow storyline. Can't post spoilers in this part of the forum or I'd be a bit more detailed, but that's my opinion.

I adored Anders in Awakenings (side note: no new LIs in Awakenings Bioware? Don't EVER do that again for an expansion...seriously, I'm still nerdraging over that), but the Anders in that expansion just isn't the same person anymore in DA: 2. This is fine, and adds depth to the character, but for pity's sake don't explain his big transformation via a short story on your website! Do it in the dang game! It's doing things like that (i.e., adding explanations after the fact outside of the game) which deepens the disappointment for the gamer.

Modifié par DaiyoukaiGeisha, 22 juin 2011 - 09:43 .

[WidowMaker9394]

They were mostly okay. Varric was absolutely great, I really liked him and he should have exaggerated more.

But Anders made me want to punch my screen every time he appeared on it.

[RangerSG]

DaiyoukaiGeisha wrote...

The companions/LIs/and party banter are the ONLY reasons why I'll consider purchasing a DLC or have an interest in DA 3. The companions saved the game for me. Making the other issues I have in the game a hell of a lot more bearable.

They were all well-voiced. However, I do agree with others that there was a lack of interaction and later "substance" in terms of the writing...I know Sebastian was a DLC introduced character but in comparison to Shale's DLC his interactions and writing were exceptionally shallow. Well-voiced (I Paul Atriedes) and very nice character design *wiggles eyebrows*, but shallow storyline. Can't post spoilers in this part of the forum or I'd be a bit more detailed, but that's my opinion.

I adored Anders in Awakenings (side note: no new LIs in Awakenings Bioware? Don't EVER do that again for an expansion...seriously, I'm still nerdraging over that), but the Anders in that expansion just isn't the same person anymore in DA: 2. This is fine, and adds depth to the character, but for pity's sake don't explain his big transformation via a short story on your website! Do it in the dang game! It's doing things like that (i.e., adding explanations after the fact outside of the game) which deepens the disappointment for the gamer.

Not to mention the short story makes no sense in the Anders timeline between Awakening and DA2. Of course, the Anders timeline is shot to pieces now anyway.

[Vhardamis]

The companions were one of the things enjoyed in DAII. The only ones that never got any playtime if i could help it was Isabela & Merrill they just annoy me too much.

Did I think some of them could have been fleshed out more? Absolutely, but over all in this series its always been the companions that get my attention first.

Whether you agree with their personal viewpoints you can still understand -why- they are that way. Love or hate em, if the writing can get a strong reaction out of you either way its done its job.

And heck I'm a sucker for party banter.

[Fangirl17]

I like them all really but I miss having a sane LI >.> If your Hawke is female and straight then you have 2 choices, Anders or Fenris. Even though there are things I love about them you have to admit they are freaking crazy x3 Although their craziness is justified given their back stories,well at least Fenris anyway. Nothing really justifies what Anders did. Oh Anders,you make me sadface, a lot

EDIT:HAHAHAHA I forgot about Seb! He doesnt count for me >.> he's the only character I don't like :l

Modifié par Fangirl17, 23 juin 2011 - 10:22 .

[Hatchetman77]

Varric was the only character I liked because he had an actual fully fleshed out personality. Avaline actually is a full character too, but I just didn't like her.  Everyone else was just two dimensional.  They just had one single trait that the writers beat you over the head with. Fenris is moody in a twighlt sort of way (and he sparkles), Isabella is a ****, Anders is a mage activist, etc. 

[lofte_2000]

Love Varric almost makes me wish that he's romancable lol...he has a pleasent manner about him and I agree, he is the only fully fleshed out companion of the lot, he stayed with me throughout the game. He seems the only character that was by my side because he genuinely liked me and didn't have a hidden agenda (although you help him with his brother etc). At the end of my playthrough I thought of him as a true friend unlike the other's who felt like people I know (associates) that I've met and gathered in passing...felt no connection to them at all.

Modifié par lofte_2000, 23 juin 2011 - 11:32 .

[Icinix]

They weren't bad...they just weren't good.

In attempting to create an amazing story with very...human...characters - I feel they lost that spark that previous BioWare game characters have had.

Its hard to isolate what exactly I'm saying - but they were all characters that seemed to have some good quality, but quickly had a bad quality cancelling it out. In affect making them all mediocre.

[lofte_2000]

Icinix wrote...

They weren't bad...they just weren't good.

In attempting to create an amazing story with very...human...characters - I feel they lost that spark that previous BioWare game characters have had.

Its hard to isolate what exactly I'm saying - but they were all characters that seemed to have some good quality, but quickly had a bad quality cancelling it out. In affect making them all mediocre.

*nods*

[kaiki01]

Icinix wrote...

They weren't bad...they just weren't good.

In attempting to create an amazing story with very...human...characters - I feel they lost that spark that previous BioWare game characters have had.

Its hard to isolate what exactly I'm saying - but they were all characters that seemed to have some good quality, but quickly had a bad quality cancelling it out. In affect making them all mediocre.

I think Anders is a great example. In Awakening he was funny, slightly bitter, freedom-loving mage. He was a fun character. In DAII instead of developing Anders they reduced his character to "kill all Templars, rawr!". It is one of hte few times where a character lost dimensions in latter instalments >_>

[GiggleLooper]

Speakeasy13 wrote...

I think the new characters are mostly likable except for the idiot that is Sebastian. But upon playing the game twice I realized why the complaints are there.

1) All of them are pretty much irrelevant to the plot. Any of them could've not been with Hawke and the events probably wouldn't have unfolded differently. But then again Hawke him/herself could've not been there and things wouldn't be different. You just couldn't shake the feeling, "why are you here? This whole thing is none of your business." And that seriously undermines their existence.

2) They're likable but pretty one-dimensional. Fenris hates mages, Anders frees mages, and Sebastian is an idiot. And that's pretty much all there is to their character. No amount of Hawke interaction could bring out a different side of their character, let alone change it. In DA:O, Morrigan, Liliana and Alistair could become vastly different characters depending on your choices, and that makes them fascinating.

That is a pretty stupid statement. Some characters had a big impact on the environment and storyline of the DAverse.
 
If Varric and his brother not been in Kirwall then Hawke would have gone to the deep roads.
 
If Isabella didn’t steal the artefact from the Qunari, then they wouldn’t have come to Kirkwall.
 
If Andres didn’t blow up the Chantry, then the final Templar/Mage battle wouldn’t have occurred.
 
And there is a possibility that Sebastian may come back with an army as a result of Andres actions.
 
Hawke had the biggest impact of all. He/she quelled the Qunari attack and decided the outcome of the world, dependent whose side was taken. An international Mage uprising or Templar suppression.
 
Granted some of the other characters had lesser role in the grand scheme of things, but then so did some characters in DA:O and DA:A.