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[csfteeeer]

cloud39472 wrote...

i think most of the companions were great the only one i didnt like was fenris i hate that guy , and people say the companions werent involved in the story line. thats wrong because without varric the deep roads expedition would never of happened, without isabella the qunari wouldnt be there because the relic thier looking for isnt there so most companions do matter in the story line.

Isabela might have relevance in the surface, but if you don't recruit her, then nothing happens, it is still the same.

Fenris has no importance What-so-ever
Neither does Merrill, she is only there to Revive Flemeth, which would have been important, if Flemeth had any importance at all after saving Hawke.
Sebastian? Nope
Aveline? Nope, some may thing i'm wrong, but i have analysed the story to it's core and no, she's not important, yes she asks you to help her with the Qunari, but ultimately Hawke would get involved... because he always do.
Anders? yeah, barely though, as he was always there in because.... actually he had no reason to stay, he just did because you can't make him leave (   )
Bethany/Carver? Nope

as you can see, almost all of the companions have no relevance.
then again, most of the companions in Origins didn't had importance either, so i don't know why some people complain, even though i have only seen like.... 3 people complaining about this.

[Momiji.mii]

I personally like the fact that most of us hate at least one of the DA2 characters passionately. DA2 managed to create characters in a way where it's difficult to make every companion like you, and likewise made them with such different personalities that most of us couldn't love them all. That made the in-game relationships much more interesting for me than DA:O (though I loved Origins a lot as well).

The way I see it, if I hate a character with a passion, that's a sign of good writing, in the same way as me loving a character can be. The only sign of bad writing would be if I felt completely indifferent about the characters, and in my case, I don't.

It's also fun for me to hear my friends talk about which DA-characters they dislike while they're playing the games from the first time. We almost never agree, and that makes it even better.

[Annarl]

Icinix wrote...

They weren't bad...they just weren't good.

In attempting to create an amazing story with very...human...characters - I feel they lost that spark that previous BioWare game characters have had.

Its hard to isolate what exactly I'm saying - but they were all characters that seemed to have some good quality, but quickly had a bad quality cancelling it out. In affect making them all mediocre.

I liked the party characters in DA2.  But would agree that something was missing with them.  They just didn't feel very close to Hawke.  Maybe it was the time jumps, with no story, maybe it was the limited interaction with the characters, especially the LI.  The LI felt shallow in comparison to Origins.  I can't put on finger on exactly what it was but something was lacking in them or should I say the way I connected to them.

[RangerSG]

csfteeeer wrote...

cloud39472 wrote...

i think most of the companions were great the only one i didnt like was fenris i hate that guy , and people say the companions werent involved in the story line. thats wrong because without varric the deep roads expedition would never of happened, without isabella the qunari wouldnt be there because the relic thier looking for isnt there so most companions do matter in the story line.

Isabela might have relevance in the surface, but if you don't recruit her, then nothing happens, it is still the same.

Fenris has no importance What-so-ever
Neither does Merrill, she is only there to Revive Flemeth, which would have been important, if Flemeth had any importance at all after saving Hawke.
Sebastian? Nope
Aveline? Nope, some may thing i'm wrong, but i have analysed the story to it's core and no, she's not important, yes she asks you to help her with the Qunari, but ultimately Hawke would get involved... because he always do.
Anders? yeah, barely though, as he was always there in because.... actually he had no reason to stay, he just did because you can't make him leave (   )
Bethany/Carver? Nope

as you can see, almost all of the companions have no relevance.
then again, most of the companions in Origins didn't had importance either, so i don't know why some people complain, even though i have only seen like.... 3 people complaining about this.

Fenris I'll agree is a less than fully invested in the story. He's simply the "ultra-Templar" philosophically.

Merill, I disagree. The Mirror has significance in the plot. And her presence as a Blood Mage provides a counter-point to the typical view of "all Blood Mages are DOOMED to be EVIL." She also provides a counterpoint to Fenris' rants about magery that doesn't go into Anders' extremism.

Sebastian is DLC. Of course he's only going to be tangental. He does give you some insight into the Grand Cleric, at least.

Aveline not crucial? Sorry, "think long, think wrong." She's your door to understanding Kirkwall's politics and problems. She also represents the need to balance Templar and Mage concerns for the good of the city. Also, your dismissal of her request for intervening with the Arishok is almost trite, as it involves disregarding what Cassandra says in the intervening scene.

Anders "barely"? Erm...he's the catalyst for the conflict in Act 3. Some have said here he IS the protagonist in Act 3. I would say he's the Starscream in Act 3. There is no Act 3 without Anders, for good or ill.

Bethany/Carver: Depends what you do. But their primary value is for Act 1, yes. Still valuable to invest the player in the DR.

Isabella? Well, there's no Act 2 without her. So Hawke would never become Champion if she weren't there.

So I would say you're guilty of excessive trivialization. And in any game, there will be some characters who are more invested in the core of the plot, and others less so. Why should DA2 be different in that regard?

[Aaleel]

RangerSG wrote...

Fenris I'll agree is a less than fully invested in the story. He's simply the "ultra-Templar" philosophically.

Merill, I disagree. The Mirror has significance in the plot. And her presence as a Blood Mage provides a counter-point to the typical view of "all Blood Mages are DOOMED to be EVIL." She also provides a counterpoint to Fenris' rants about magery that doesn't go into Anders' extremism.

Sebastian is DLC. Of course he's only going to be tangental. He does give you some insight into the Grand Cleric, at least.

Aveline not crucial? Sorry, "think long, think wrong." She's your door to understanding Kirkwall's politics and problems. She also represents the need to balance Templar and Mage concerns for the good of the city. Also, your dismissal of her request for intervening with the Arishok is almost trite, as it involves disregarding what Cassandra says in the intervening scene.

Anders "barely"? Erm...he's the catalyst for the conflict in Act 3. Some have said here he IS the protagonist in Act 3. I would say he's the Starscream in Act 3. There is no Act 3 without Anders, for good or ill.

Bethany/Carver: Depends what you do. But their primary value is for Act 1, yes. Still valuable to invest the player in the DR.

Isabella? Well, there's no Act 2 without her. So Hawke would never become Champion if she weren't there.

So I would say you're guilty of excessive trivialization. And in any game, there will be some characters who are more invested in the core of the plot, and others less so. Why should DA2 be different in that regard?

How is the bolded true.  She was a danger to herself and those around her, and if the keeper didn't step in she would have been possessed by a demon and tried to kill you and all your companions.  She is a prime example of why blood mages are dangerous.

Whether a ditz, and evil mage, or a curious mage, it's going to end badly if you delve in blood magic.  Jowan was a better example, at least he used blood magic as a tool trying to help and didn't fall to possession.

[RangerSG]

Aaleel wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

Fenris I'll agree is a less than fully invested in the story. He's simply the "ultra-Templar" philosophically.

Merill, I disagree. The Mirror has significance in the plot. And her presence as a Blood Mage provides a counter-point to the typical view of "all Blood Mages are DOOMED to be EVIL." She also provides a counterpoint to Fenris' rants about magery that doesn't go into Anders' extremism.

Sebastian is DLC. Of course he's only going to be tangental. He does give you some insight into the Grand Cleric, at least.

Aveline not crucial? Sorry, "think long, think wrong." She's your door to understanding Kirkwall's politics and problems. She also represents the need to balance Templar and Mage concerns for the good of the city. Also, your dismissal of her request for intervening with the Arishok is almost trite, as it involves disregarding what Cassandra says in the intervening scene.

Anders "barely"? Erm...he's the catalyst for the conflict in Act 3. Some have said here he IS the protagonist in Act 3. I would say he's the Starscream in Act 3. There is no Act 3 without Anders, for good or ill.

Bethany/Carver: Depends what you do. But their primary value is for Act 1, yes. Still valuable to invest the player in the DR.

Isabella? Well, there's no Act 2 without her. So Hawke would never become Champion if she weren't there.

So I would say you're guilty of excessive trivialization. And in any game, there will be some characters who are more invested in the core of the plot, and others less so. Why should DA2 be different in that regard?

How is the bolded true.  She was a danger to herself and those around her, and if the keeper didn't step in she would have been possessed by a demon and tried to kill you and all your companions.  She is a prime example of why blood mages are dangerous.

Whether a ditz, and evil mage, or a curious mage, it's going to end badly if you delve in blood magic.  Jowan was a better example, at least he used blood magic as a tool trying to help and didn't fall to possession.

Ahem, this is a no-spoiler thread.

But you're assertion is that what Marethari said was the demon's plan was the ONLY possible outcome. That's assuming an unknown. Marethari could've just as easily been an over-reacting idiot.

And IMHO, she was.

[Aaleel]

RangerSG wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

Fenris I'll agree is a less than fully invested in the story. He's simply the "ultra-Templar" philosophically.

Merill, I disagree. The Mirror has significance in the plot. And her presence as a Blood Mage provides a counter-point to the typical view of "all Blood Mages are DOOMED to be EVIL." She also provides a counterpoint to Fenris' rants about magery that doesn't go into Anders' extremism.

Sebastian is DLC. Of course he's only going to be tangental. He does give you some insight into the Grand Cleric, at least.

Aveline not crucial? Sorry, "think long, think wrong." She's your door to understanding Kirkwall's politics and problems. She also represents the need to balance Templar and Mage concerns for the good of the city. Also, your dismissal of her request for intervening with the Arishok is almost trite, as it involves disregarding what Cassandra says in the intervening scene.

Anders "barely"? Erm...he's the catalyst for the conflict in Act 3. Some have said here he IS the protagonist in Act 3. I would say he's the Starscream in Act 3. There is no Act 3 without Anders, for good or ill.

Bethany/Carver: Depends what you do. But their primary value is for Act 1, yes. Still valuable to invest the player in the DR.

Isabella? Well, there's no Act 2 without her. So Hawke would never become Champion if she weren't there.

So I would say you're guilty of excessive trivialization. And in any game, there will be some characters who are more invested in the core of the plot, and others less so. Why should DA2 be different in that regard?

How is the bolded true.  She was a danger to herself and those around her, and if the keeper didn't step in she would have been possessed by a demon and tried to kill you and all your companions.  She is a prime example of why blood mages are dangerous.

Whether a ditz, and evil mage, or a curious mage, it's going to end badly if you delve in blood magic.  Jowan was a better example, at least he used blood magic as a tool trying to help and didn't fall to possession.

Ahem, this is a no-spoiler thread.

But you're assertion is that what Marethari said was the demon's plan was the ONLY possible outcome. That's assuming an unknown. Marethari could've just as easily been an over-reacting idiot.

And IMHO, she was.

Uh no.  If that were the case Merrill wouldn't ask you to promise to do a certain thing in the event that things didn't go as planned.  She like EVERYONE else knew the likely outcome.

Modifié par Aaleel, 25 juin 2011 - 08:22 .

[RangerSG]

Aaleel wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

Fenris I'll agree is a less than fully invested in the story. He's simply the "ultra-Templar" philosophically.

Merill, I disagree. The Mirror has significance in the plot. And her presence as a Blood Mage provides a counter-point to the typical view of "all Blood Mages are DOOMED to be EVIL." She also provides a counterpoint to Fenris' rants about magery that doesn't go into Anders' extremism.

Sebastian is DLC. Of course he's only going to be tangental. He does give you some insight into the Grand Cleric, at least.

Aveline not crucial? Sorry, "think long, think wrong." She's your door to understanding Kirkwall's politics and problems. She also represents the need to balance Templar and Mage concerns for the good of the city. Also, your dismissal of her request for intervening with the Arishok is almost trite, as it involves disregarding what Cassandra says in the intervening scene.

Anders "barely"? Erm...he's the catalyst for the conflict in Act 3. Some have said here he IS the protagonist in Act 3. I would say he's the Starscream in Act 3. There is no Act 3 without Anders, for good or ill.

Bethany/Carver: Depends what you do. But their primary value is for Act 1, yes. Still valuable to invest the player in the DR.

Isabella? Well, there's no Act 2 without her. So Hawke would never become Champion if she weren't there.

So I would say you're guilty of excessive trivialization. And in any game, there will be some characters who are more invested in the core of the plot, and others less so. Why should DA2 be different in that regard?

How is the bolded true.  She was a danger to herself and those around her, and if the keeper didn't step in she would have been possessed by a demon and tried to kill you and all your companions.  She is a prime example of why blood mages are dangerous.

Whether a ditz, and evil mage, or a curious mage, it's going to end badly if you delve in blood magic.  Jowan was a better example, at least he used blood magic as a tool trying to help and didn't fall to possession.

Ahem, this is a no-spoiler thread.

But you're assertion is that what Marethari said was the demon's plan was the ONLY possible outcome. That's assuming an unknown. Marethari could've just as easily been an over-reacting idiot.

And IMHO, she was.

Uh no.  If that were the case Merrill wouldn't ask you to promise to do a certain thing in the event that things didn't go as planned.  She like EVERYONE else knew the likely outcome.

She didn't *know* the outcome. She was prepared for the worst. The difference is, Marethari could only let herself believe the worst, because she was over-protective.

[wickedwizzard01]

apart from the Incredible Hypocritical Fenris i liked all DAII characters
some more than others but Fenris i hope i will never see or hear from again,
also don't liked the Anders/Justice merger but that's probably due to my general dislike of Justice in DAA and that Anders seems to have lost his humor

Varric /Bethany and Isabella are my favorites
and then come sometimes annoying Aveline and Carver and Merril is somewhere in between depending on what road i go with her

And i did miss the "getting to Know" conversations  DAO had in camp  and the talk anywhere 
wich seemed to make the Origins characters come "alive" and more "real" 
hope this will return in DA3

Modifié par wickedwizzard01, 04 juillet 2011 - 02:17 .

[sphinxess]

RangerSG wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

Merill, I disagree. The Mirror has significance in the plot. And her presence as a Blood Mage provides a counter-point to the typical view of "all Blood Mages are DOOMED to be EVIL." She also provides a counterpoint to Fenris' rants about magery that doesn't go into Anders' extremism.

How is the bolded true.  She was a danger to herself and those around her, and if the keeper didn't step in she would have been possessed by a demon and tried to kill you and all your companions.  She is a prime example of why blood mages are dangerous.

Whether a ditz, and evil mage, or a curious mage, it's going to end badly if you delve in blood magic.  Jowan was a better example, at least he used blood magic as a tool trying to help and didn't fall to possession.

Ahem, this is a no-spoiler thread.

But you're assertion is that what Marethari said was the demon's plan was the ONLY possible outcome. That's assuming an unknown. Marethari could've just as easily been an over-reacting idiot.

And IMHO, she was.

Uh no.  If that were the case Merrill wouldn't ask you to promise to do a certain thing in the event that things didn't go as planned.  She like EVERYONE else knew the likely outcome.

She didn't *know* the outcome. She was prepared for the worst. The difference is, Marethari could only let herself believe the worst, because she was over-protective.

<Spoiler>
I find it incredible to believe that Maretharis lack of taking precautions/provide warnings to her clan of what she planned to do with the demon can be compared favorably to Merrill taking precautions by bringing Hawke along. Demons lie - Maretharis believed and gave the demon a 100% chance of possession by dragging it out of a stone statue into her body to a terrific cost to those around her.


I liked all the characters for the most part.

Carter - can grow from whiny boy
Fenris - um ok Fenris doesn't really change Bad Bad Bad
Avaline -  doesnt really change but the story brings out a lot of depth to her - mature type like Varric
Anders - changes a lot - not in a good way
Issabella - changes depending on Hawke
Varric - doesnt really change but then hes a lot like Avaline - already mature
Merrill - doesnt really change but her beliefs do depending on Hawke
Bethany - didn't use her that much

Modifié par sphinxess, 04 juillet 2011 - 05:41 .

[csfteeeer]

RangerSG wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

cloud39472 wrote...

i think most of the companions were great the only one i didnt like was fenris i hate that guy , and people say the companions werent involved in the story line. thats wrong because without varric the deep roads expedition would never of happened, without isabella the qunari wouldnt be there because the relic thier looking for isnt there so most companions do matter in the story line.

Isabela might have relevance in the surface, but if you don't recruit her, then nothing happens, it is still the same.

Fenris has no importance What-so-ever
Neither does Merrill, she is only there to Revive Flemeth, which would have been important, if Flemeth had any importance at all after saving Hawke.
Sebastian? Nope
Aveline? Nope, some may thing i'm wrong, but i have analysed the story to it's core and no, she's not important, yes she asks you to help her with the Qunari, but ultimately Hawke would get involved... because he always do.
Anders? yeah, barely though, as he was always there in because.... actually he had no reason to stay, he just did because you can't make him leave (   )
Bethany/Carver? Nope

as you can see, almost all of the companions have no relevance.
then again, most of the companions in Origins didn't had importance either, so i don't know why some people complain, even though i have only seen like.... 3 people complaining about this.

Fenris I'll agree is a less than fully invested in the story. He's simply the "ultra-Templar" philosophically.

Merill, I disagree. The Mirror has significance in the plot. And her presence as a Blood Mage provides a counter-point to the typical view of "all Blood Mages are DOOMED to be EVIL." She also provides a counterpoint to Fenris' rants about magery that doesn't go into Anders' extremism.

Sebastian is DLC. Of course he's only going to be tangental. He does give you some insight into the Grand Cleric, at least.

Aveline not crucial? Sorry, "think long, think wrong." She's your door to understanding Kirkwall's politics and problems. She also represents the need to balance Templar and Mage concerns for the good of the city. Also, your dismissal of her request for intervening with the Arishok is almost trite, as it involves disregarding what Cassandra says in the intervening scene.

Anders "barely"? Erm...he's the catalyst for the conflict in Act 3. Some have said here he IS the protagonist in Act 3. I would say he's the Starscream in Act 3. There is no Act 3 without Anders, for good or ill.

Bethany/Carver: Depends what you do. But their primary value is for Act 1, yes. Still valuable to invest the player in the DR.

Isabella? Well, there's no Act 2 without her. So Hawke would never become Champion if she weren't there.

So I would say you're guilty of excessive trivialization. And in any game, there will be some characters who are more invested in the core of the plot, and others less so. Why should DA2 be different in that regard?

i Guess you could look at Merrill that way, but still don't see anything that is useful about her.

Same thing with Aveline.

Yes, i know about the thing with Anders, but up to that point, the only useful thing he did was give you the maps.
hmmm, ok barely was not a good term, i'll simply say, Anders was an exeption.

Bethany/Carver, not really.

Isabela, as i said, you can just as easily NOT Recruit her, and the act 2 will still be the same, i little weakened, but still the same.

[Auroras]

The only characters that I actually disliked were Sebastian, Carver and Anders. I loved the rest to bits. Personally, I think they are all well-written (save Sebastian).

[Chuvvy]

Companions were the only great part about this game. Anders and Merrill (to a lesser extent were monomaniacal (obsessed with one thing), it didn't hurt Merrill's character much but I definitely think Anders suffered for it.

[SkittlesKat96]

 I find it more ridiculous that people say the characters are too unique and that there are stories are too unrealistic yet Dragon Age Origins and the Mass Effect games are kind of like that too (not that its a bad thing)

[Nightdragon8]

Here is what I think Sebastian as a conflicting person, also sort of the Alister of DA2. But in this case, Alister was relatable because he wasn't brought up to be a prince or king, like Sebastian was.

he seemed imo a hardcore idiot, too caught up in religious stuff to think for himself.