1035 réponses à ce sujet

[Made Nightwing]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

redbaron76 wrote...

I have no idea why people need explanation of what happened on horizon. Ashley was sent to investigate rumors that cerberus was behind attacks, and that shepard was alive and working with cerberus. I do not see the need for an explanation, because ashley was with in her rights to accuse my shepard of treason. Nad you knight said that you poked holes in the plot well you did not. I think bioware left the horizon situation the way it is on purpose. It might not be resolved and it is atect of bond that ashley and shepard share, to see if their romance is strong enough to take the next step. My shepard still trust ashley and wants her beside him to fight against reapers.

read the posts by laecraft, knightblu and whywhywhywhy.  Then explain to us how we didn't show plotholes in ash's "for the alliance" gungho "your a traitor" attitude.  Feel free to respond to those post and show me how these posts didn't destroy the events on horizon as sensible.

Maybe because you pretty much act like a self-righteous D-bag in your posts? Or maybe that you consistently nitpick about plot points that no one else even bothers with? To most of us, Ashley's mission and reaction on Horizon was reasonable considering all the factors, if a bit over-emotional in delivery? But since you think you're a thousand feet above the common folk, you spew out multiple diatribes that ARE plausible, just aren't very likely compared to the alternatives.

[jamesraylor]

the new xbox 360 magazine has an article about ME3 has a pic of Ashley with her hair down.

[KyreneZA]

She was, until she didn't trust Shepard anymore. When/how that happened is anyone's guess, but if a girl who hates Cerberus and called him a pvssy when she first met him can trust him enough to let him past her emotional walls, Ash is going to have her work cut out for her come reunion time. She may have moved on, but her behaviour on Horizon has opened the door for Shepard to move on too.

[whywhywhywhy]

Made Nightwing wrote...
Maybe because you pretty much act like a self-righteous D-bag in your posts?

Horizon, Horizon Horizon...

Made Nightwing wrote...
Or maybe that you consistently nitpick about plot points that no one else even bothers with?

That's the point.

Made Nightwing wrote...
To most of us, Ashley's mission and reaction on Horizon was reasonable considering all the factors, if a bit over-emotional in delivery?

/yawn, yes and I disagree.

Made Nightwing wrote...
 But since you think you're a thousand feet above the common folk,

I don't think


that.

Made Nightwing wrote...
you spew out multiple diatribes that ARE plausible, just aren't very likely compared to the alternatives.

Feel free to show me this.

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 19 juillet 2011 - 07:43 .

[knightnblu]

First, let's be civil toward one another. Ad hominem attacks do not serve to support your position and only act as a reflection of your personal character. That having been said, I wonder where and more importantly how, it was determined that "most" people expressed an opinion on this issue.

While I most certainly agree that many people do in fact believe that the events on Horizon were a non-issue, I have also observed that many also disagree with that position, myself included. Therefore, I have no idea how you arrived at the conclusion that "most" believe it was a non-event.

I have no problems with disagreements with my positions on Horizon and I invite public critique of them. If somebody objects to anything I say, then post your counterpoint and we can discuss it.

Kyrene - I think that opening a door was what BioWare was shooting for, but it became bigger than they had intended. In fact, the same thing often happens in real life. You intend to do or say something that begins an effect larger than what you were looking to create. Sometimes that's a good thing and sometimes a bad one. The jury is still out on Horizon and won't be back until ME3 is released. It's something that deserves attention in ME3 in my opinion.

BioWare can play this one of four possible ways. First, they can ignore it and move on like nothing ever happened. That would frost me and I suspect that others would feel the same. I already don't want Williams aboard my ship because I don't like wild cards in my ranks and candy coating it won't change that.

Secondly, they could just ditch the relationship altogether and turn Williams into a rival Spectre. You don't trust her and she doesn't trust you. That would also end up frosting over a lot of people who wish to continue the romance, but it could present some rather interesting exchanges and events in the game.

Third, they could account for Williams' meltdown on Horizon and deal with it allowing those who thought it was a big deal to smooth things over or break it off completely. Alternatively, those who thought that Horizon was a non-event can say "There's nothing to forgive" and move on to the make up sex. Everybody's happy.

Finally, they could make her the wife/girlfriend of someone else and make you win her back if you really want to, leaving everybody in the same "What the!?!" state of mind as I felt when I first experienced Horizon and met my LI from ME1.

Personally, I am hoping for the third option myself.

[Sshodan]

Just popping in as a representative of a "Horizon is a problem" crowd, since we do indeed exist!
And I certainly hope for option 3 - anything else would live me less than satisfied with the story.

[rapscallioness]

Good thread. I've enjoyed reading it.

I just want to say that I hope BW does address the "Horizon Incident", and fleshes it out. It may not be what they intended, but it is what it is.

Kaidan is my FemShep's LI, but.....same difference. My personal view is that Kaidan should earn Shep.'s trust back. I've read both sides, and frankly I see truth in both, but that's the way I feel about it.

I wonder how the LI is going to feel about Shep after they find out about the "Arrival Incident"? I mean, if they were ticked w/ Shep b4, they're probably going to think Shep has gone completely and utterly rogue, and maybe crazy. I wonder if they drank the Alliance/Council kool aid about the threat of the Reaper's being non existent? When Kaidan said something about Cerberus just manipulating Shep.'s mind w/ threat of Reapers...I was like, didn't I just go thru this w/ the Council in ME1 and Saren?

I gotta say, tho, it really doesn't look good for poor Shep. When you put it on paper? Geez. Just w/ Arrival: 300k+ killed;  a whole star system destroyed (and w/ the Batarians of all races that have been itching to war w/ humans); one of their top Alliance agents, Kenson, is killed:blink:. Yeah, she was indoctrinated, but the Alliance doesn't believe, or admit to the Reapers much less going to accept that she was indoctrinated.

For all intents and purposes, after Arrival happened, Shep looks like nothing more than some extreme Cerberus creep. Ugh, I bet Kaidan despises my FemShep now..lol.

Did someone say, I think Abispa?, that the LI was gonna be "escorting" Shep to the trial? I wonder in what way? In a supportive way, or an armed escort kinda thing?

Poor Shepard.

[ubermensch007]

rapscallioness wrote... I wonder how the LI is going to feel about Shep after they find out
about the "Arrival Incident"? I mean, if they were ticked w/ Shep b4,
they're probably going to think Shep has gone completely and utterly
rogue, and maybe crazy.

You know I hadn't considered that.Good catch rapscallioness... There's been alot of talk about the Virmire Survivor escorting Commander Shepard into his military tribunal (if that's what it is).What I hope BioWare doesn't look past, is that for us as the players and Shepard himself, we have not seen the VS in person since Horizon.This scene has to be shown.I mean, can you imagine how nervous and anxious Shepard and the VS are going to be seeing each other again after what went down on Horizon?!

I would absolutely hate it, if they leave their reunion out of the story.Kind of like how, what I was most dissappointed about in The Matrix Reloaded was that it jumped six months into the future from where The Matrix ended.After seeing The Matrix, this question was at the forefront of mine. "What was Neo's first day in Zion like? Think about it, Morpheous finds the One, but loses more than half his crew, to the traitor and cold-blooded murderer Cypher! The Homecoming of the Nebuchadnezzar has so much dramatic potential, for a good writer and actors.It is a shame that we never got to see that. Or how Neo settled in and found his place in that community.But I digress...

Now then, there have been many good speculations made for why did Ash react the way she did towards Shepard on Horizon.Let me throw my cards on the table. It begins with my post in the thread: Ashley/Kaidan as Spectre in ME3; Confirmed?
(Eden Prime, is for me something that I hope and pray that BioWare takes another look at in ME 3)

Speaking of Eden Prime,and how we first meet "A Soldier in Distress" I recall  what Ashlley said not long after that ordeal, with her  "Dog and
Bear Metaphor"

www.youtube.com/watch

Ashley: "As noble as the Council members may seem now.If there backs are against the wall,they will abandon us." Look.If your fighting a bear and the only way for you to survive is to sick your dog on it and run.You'll do it! As much as you love your dog, it isn't human.Its not racism, not really.Members of thier species will always be more
important to them, than humans are."

Shepard: These seem like deeply held beliefs Williams.What made you think this way?"

Shepard I couldn't agree with you more.Ash  answers Shepard's question in a way: But personally I have another interpretation.

Shepard: Things were pretty rough down there.Are you okay?

Ashley: I've seen friends die before -- It comes with being a marine. But to see my whole unit wiped out -- and you never get use to seeing dead civillians.

When we first see Ash, she is running for her
life, from hostile geth.When i first heard her give that example of
sacrificing your dog to save yourself.I was shocked and horrified by how cold and heartless of an example it was..It was one of those "Where the hell did that come from?!"  moments.And I thought then that for her, it was not just an example, it felt more like a confession of something that she did in the past and she was almost wanting to hear Commander Shepard say that he would do the same -- in order to alleiviate her guilt.

But now I see another possibilty... Ash was 'projecting' ...

-- When she talks about the aliens abandoning thier allies.

-- When she talks about "seeing" her whole unit wiped out.

-- When she says that she would sacrifice something that she loved in order to save herself.

I find myself saying, "Hang on! If Ash was running for her life, than how could she have "seen" what happened to her squadmates on Eden Prime? She was either cowering in fear at the time, from a safe vantage point or
a fellow soldier told her to "Retreat -- Ash... Go.Run... Save yourself!"

You can even ****** Ash off when we first meet her, by making some innuendos about how is it that she is the "Lone Survivor" .

I'm not saying that she did this or did that.But it is food for thought.Perhaps in Mass Effect 3, she will come clean about what really happened on Eden Prime.At the most -- It could be good writing material
for her character arc in the story...

And now we come to Horizon...From Ashley's perspective.Here she is, as she was on Eden Prime.She was the one charged with once more - defending a colony.And she failed.Now knightnblu, even though you may be right with what you say in your thread, Some Thoughts on DeLann (long) The fact of the matter is Operations Cheif Ashley Williams failed once more in the discharge of her duities.And as it was then, it is now.The first thing she she's is the man who succeeds once again.Where she herself has failed.The first time she met Shepard, she at least helped him save the colony of Eden Prime.When they meet after a two year hiatus: This time Ashley doesn't get to do a damn thing to redeem herself.She's encapacitated by the 'seeker swarms' just the same as everyone else.

Everyone else -- but Shepard and Co. that is...Is it possible that she was not angry all that much from a "Where the hell have you been for the last two years Shepard?! place - and instead it was more about her feelings of inadequacy coming back to the surface.In the presence of a man with whom she at one time said...
"You make me feel good enough." Now she feels resentment towards him.And maybe she feels that he faked his own death and didn't ever really care all that much about her in the first place.In her mind.Shepard is the human and she is the dog that is used to distract the bear....

Modifié par ubermensch007, 20 juillet 2011 - 04:22 .

[knightnblu]

rapscallioness said, "I wonder how the LI is going to feel about Shep after they find out about the "Arrival Incident"? I mean, if they were ticked w/ Shep b4, they're probably going to think Shep has gone completely and utterly rogue, and maybe crazy. I wonder if they drank the Alliance/Council kool aid about the threat of the Reaper's being non existent? When Kaidan said something about Cerberus just manipulating Shep.'s mind w/ threat of Reapers...I was like, didn't I just go thru this w/ the Council in ME1 and Saren?"

I agree. If the VS had that much trouble believing Shepard about his reasons for working with Cerberus on Horizon, I seriously doubt they are going to buy his reasoning about the Reapers being the reason to destroy the system. That's why if they are around during the trial, I expect that they will have me under guard. In fact, I can hear Ashley now, "What the hell were you thinking Shepard?! I knew that you were out of your mind when I saw you on Horizon, but I never thought that you would slaughter innocent women and children as part of your descent into madness!" Trying to reason with her about that would be akin to reasoning with a brick wall. She didn't listen to you on Horizon, so why should she give you an ear about that?

It has been my experience that you can't argue with a closed mind anymore than you can with a .45 ACP. That's the reason that I don't want Williams on my crew anymore. I don't have the time to babysit her and explain everything I do in minute details. Better if she isn't around. Unless of course, BioWare fixes the problem that they created on Horizon in the first place. I really don't think that is too much to ask.

[SandRaz0r]

I hope they allow Ashley to be a romance option, I liked her much more than Miranda. The first impressions and overall personalities of the two helped me decide that. I will always be with Ashley. <3

[knightnblu]

[quote]ubermensch007 wrote...
 
[quote]rapscallioness wrote... I wonder how the LI is going to feel about Shep after they find out[/quote]
 
You know I hadn't considered that.Good catch rapscallioness... There's been alot of talk about the Virmire Survivor escorting Commander Shepard into his military tribunal (if that's what it is).What I hope BioWare doesn't look past, is that for us as the players and Shepard himself, we have not seen the VS in person since Horizon.This scene has to be shown.I mean, can you imagine how nervous and anxious Shepard and the VS are going to be seeing each other again after what went down on Horizon?!
 
[/quote]
 
And now we come to Horizon...From Ashley's perspective.Here she is, as she was on Eden Prime.She was the one charged with once more - defending a colony.And she failed.Now knightnblu, even though you may be right with what you say in your thread, Some Thoughts on DeLann (long) The fact of the matter is Operations Cheif Ashley Williams failed once more in the discharge of her duities.And as it was then, it is now.The first thing she she's is the man who succeeds once again.Where she herself has failed.The first time she met Shepard, she at least helped him save the colony of Eden Prime.When they meet after a two year hiatus: This time Ashley doesn't get to do a damn thing to redeem herself.She's encapacitated by the 'seeker swarms' just the same as everyone else.
 
Everyone else -- but Shepard and Co. that is...Is it possible that she was not angry all that much from a "Where the hell have you been for the last two years Shepard?! place - and instead it was more about her feelings of inadequacy coming back to the surface. In the presence of a man with whom she at one time said...
 
"You make me feel good enough." Now she feels resentment towards him. And maybe she feels that he faked his own death and didn't ever really care all that much about her in the first place. In her mind. Shepard is the human and she is the dog that is used to distract the bear....
[/quote]
 
(major edits in previous quotes to save space)
 
I don't know if that was Ashley's motivation on Horizon or not, but I think that you make a good point about it. It will be interesting to see what BioWare's take on it is in ME3.

[Iakus]

knightnblu wrote...

rapscallioness said, "I wonder how the LI is going to feel about Shep after they find out about the "Arrival Incident"? I mean, if they were ticked w/ Shep b4, they're probably going to think Shep has gone completely and utterly rogue, and maybe crazy. I wonder if they drank the Alliance/Council kool aid about the threat of the Reaper's being non existent? When Kaidan said something about Cerberus just manipulating Shep.'s mind w/ threat of Reapers...I was like, didn't I just go thru this w/ the Council in ME1 and Saren?"

I agree. If the VS had that much trouble believing Shepard about his reasons for working with Cerberus on Horizon, I seriously doubt they are going to buy his reasoning about the Reapers being the reason to destroy the system. That's why if they are around during the trial, I expect that they will have me under guard. In fact, I can hear Ashley now, "What the hell were you thinking Shepard?! I knew that you were out of your mind when I saw you on Horizon, but I never thought that you would slaughter innocent women and children as part of your descent into madness!" Trying to reason with her about that would be akin to reasoning with a brick wall. She didn't listen to you on Horizon, so why should she give you an ear about that?

It has been my experience that you can't argue with a closed mind anymore than you can with a .45 ACP. That's the reason that I don't want Williams on my crew anymore. I don't have the time to babysit her and explain everything I do in minute details. Better if she isn't around. Unless of course, BioWare fixes the problem that they created on Horizon in the first place. I really don't think that is too much to ask.

But I'm sure Shepard used his hardsuit computer to record everything that happened there.  Right?

Right?

I'm thinking of making this my motto:  "I won't let one moment of bad writing ruin Ashley for me"

[knightnblu]

iakus wrote...
 

knightnblu wrote...
 
rapscallioness said, "I wonder how the LI is going to feel about Shep after they find out about the "Arrival Incident"? I mean, if they were ticked w/ Shep b4, they're probably going to think Shep has gone completely and utterly rogue, and maybe crazy. I wonder if they drank the Alliance/Council kool aid about the threat of the Reaper's being non existent? When Kaidan said something about Cerberus just manipulating Shep.'s mind w/ threat of Reapers...I was like, didn't I just go thru this w/ the Council in ME1 and Saren?"
 
I agree. If the VS had that much trouble believing Shepard about his reasons for working with Cerberus on Horizon, I seriously doubt they are going to buy his reasoning about the Reapers being the reason to destroy the system. That's why if they are around during the trial, I expect that they will have me under guard. In fact, I can hear Ashley now, "What the hell were you thinking Shepard?! I knew that you were out of your mind when I saw you on Horizon, but I never thought that you would slaughter innocent women and children as part of your descent into madness!" Trying to reason with her about that would be akin to reasoning with a brick wall. She didn't listen to you on Horizon, so why should she give you an ear about that?
 
It has been my experience that you can't argue with a closed mind anymore than you can with a .45 ACP. That's the reason that I don't want Williams on my crew anymore. I don't have the time to babysit her and explain everything I do in minute details. Better if she isn't around. Unless of course, BioWare fixes the problem that they created on Horizon in the first place. I really don't think that is too much to ask.

 
But I'm sure Shepard used his hardsuit computer to record everything that happened there. Right?
 
Right? (emphasis knightnblu)
 
I'm thinking of making this my motto: "I won't let one moment of bad writing ruin Ashley for me"

 
That is the one thing that has been driving me crazy since ME1. You would think that there would be onboard recorders embedded in the armor with as well as cameras that uploaded to the main server when you came within range. Such equipment would be a necessity on any modern battlefield to adjust tactics, to train, to send real time tactical information to commanders, and the list goes on. Another thing that is missing from the battlefield are drones.
 
Drones can be used for surveillance, to pull enemies out of position, and to launch an attack. They can be used planetside as well as for ship to ship attacks or to stop incoming missiles and torpedoes. But I digress, police officers are wired for sound and video today, but in the future Shep is all alone without any record of what he does but his own reports? That's sad. Thank you for bringing that up iakus, it's a good point.

[Iakus]

Not to mention that combat hardsuits in the ME universe do in fact have recording capability as well as inboard computers. I believe Ash herself mentions recording the conversation with Sovereign on Virmire.

[Iakus]

DOuble post.

But while I'm at it, part of what annoys me about the situation on Horizon is even if Ash has doubts, SHep has access to all sorts of information that could have been handed over as a peace offering.  Hardsuit recordings are just the start

Modifié par iakus, 20 juillet 2011 - 06:46 .

[Hydrosphere]

Ohh some interesting points/thoughts on this page.

[ubermensch007]

You know when I watched the E3 Mass Effect Demo as glad as I was to hear Ashley's voice.I was like,"What the hell is she doing on my ship!?!

And what's this nonsense that I heard about Shep being reinstated into the Alliance?! Where I am right now, I don't know if I want anything to do with the Virmire Survivor or the Alliance for that matter...<_<

And as for Commander Shepard's Trial: I'm not so sure that he is going to get railroaded or blind-sided or anything.How much sympathy can we honestly expect the Batarians to recieve given there 'MANY' pass offenses?

By all rights, the Council should have considered the bio-weapon attack on the Citadel as an Act of War.

The Alliance, on account of what happens during the DLC: Bring Down the Sky and the N7: Javelin Missile Launched Mission, has reason enough to declare war against Batarian Hegemony...

I know that what Shepard has done can be seen as 'escalation' but "You can't put toothpaste back in the tube."

[knightnblu]

ubermensch007 wrote...

You know when I watched the E3 Mass Effect Demo as glad as I was to hear Ashley's voice.I was like,"What the hell is she doing on my ship!?!

And what's this nonsense that I heard about Shep being reinstated into the Alliance?! Where I am right now, I don't know if I want anything to do with the Virmire Survivor or the Alliance for that matter...<_<

And as for Commander Shepard's Trial: I'm not so sure that he is going to get railroaded or blind-sided or anything.How much sympathy can we honestly expect the Batarians to recieve given there 'MANY' pass offenses?

By all rights, the Council should have considered the bio-weapon attack on the Citadel as an Act of War.

The Alliance, on account of what happens during the DLC: Bring Down the Sky and the N7: Javelin Missile Launched Mission, has reason enough to declare war against Batarian Hegemony...

I know that what Shepard has done can be seen as 'escalation' but "You can't put toothpaste back in the tube."

Yeah, I had heard that Shepard's commission is going to be reactivated by Anderson. Don't remember the source or if it is true. As for the trial, I expect that it will be more of a formality than a fact finding mechanism with the judgment and sentence all ready to go before Shepard even opens his mouth to defend himself.
 
I had once thought that the VS would retrieve Shepard from a military prison on some colonial backwater where he had been sentenced to hard labor, but that is not going to happen according to what I saw at E3.
 
Reapers aside, I just can't see the Alliance going along with the destruction of a star system and Batarian colony as a viable military tactic to defend against a threat that they do not recognize. That would be like saying that I nuked Paris in order to defend against a unicorn invasion. Nobody is going to buy that and Shepard will be branded as a nut job and quietly put away if it were not for the Reapers showing up.
 
As for Williams being aboard the Normandy, you can always put her on the shuttle and send her to Admiral Hackett for assignment to the cruiser of frigate of her choice sans the Normandy. But I don't think that the game designers will allow that so we are stuck with her whether we like it or not. I really hope that they smooth over the ruffled feathers in ME3 because I am still irritated about it.

[Made Nightwing]

knightnblu wrote...

As for Williams being aboard the Normandy, you can always put her on the shuttle and send her to Admiral Hackett for assignment to the cruiser of frigate of her choice sans the Normandy. But I don't think that the game designers will allow that so we are stuck with her whether we like it or not. I really hope that they smooth over the ruffled feathers in ME3 because I am still irritated about it.

 

Let me get this straight. You actually want Bioware to waste time and resources adding an option to completely remove a character from the game? A character that 40% of the overall fanbase has been actively clamouring/politely requesting to have back in the game and have more plot relevance, dialogue and romance? And that 50% more have been mostly indifferent, but still happy to get back? But because 10% want the character completely removed from their gameplay experience, Bioware should pander to them?

That's what you're after? Good. Just making sure.

[whywhywhywhy]

Made Nightwing wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

As for Williams being aboard the Normandy, you can always put her on the shuttle and send her to Admiral Hackett for assignment to the cruiser of frigate of her choice sans the Normandy. But I don't think that the game designers will allow that so we are stuck with her whether we like it or not. I really hope that they smooth over the ruffled feathers in ME3 because I am still irritated about it.

 

Let me get this straight. You actually want Bioware to waste time and resources adding an option to completely remove a character from the game? A character that 40% of the overall fanbase has been actively clamouring/politely requesting to have back in the game and have more plot relevance, dialogue and romance? And that 50% more have been mostly indifferent, but still happy to get back? But because 10% want the character completely removed from their gameplay experience, Bioware should pander to them?

That's what you're after? Good. Just making sure.

Interesting statistics I'd like to know where you got those numbes from.

[knightnblu]

Made Nightwing wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

As for Williams being aboard the Normandy, you can always put her on the shuttle and send her to Admiral Hackett for assignment to the cruiser of frigate of her choice sans the Normandy. But I don't think that the game designers will allow that so we are stuck with her whether we like it or not. I really hope that they smooth over the ruffled feathers in ME3 because I am still irritated about it.

 

Let me get this straight. You actually want Bioware to waste time and resources adding an option to completely remove a character from the game? A character that 40% of the overall fanbase has been actively clamouring/politely requesting to have back in the game and have more plot relevance, dialogue and romance? And that 50% more have been mostly indifferent, but still happy to get back? But because 10% want the character completely removed from their gameplay experience, Bioware should pander to them?

That's what you're after? Good. Just making sure.

OK, I am going to assume that you are semi-serious and not merely trolling for a second. First, my post was partly serious and partly humorous (to me anyway). If you have actually read my posts on this thread then you are aware of my assertions regarding Williams and know that I respect her as a solider and as a character, but that doesn't mean that I wish to associate with her after what she pulled on Horizon.
 
Secondly, what is so difficult and time consuming to remove a character from a game? I used to do it all of the time with the NWN toolset and it wasn't time consuming or difficult. You write some dialog, script an exit, and bang, you're done. In fact, it could go something like this:
 
Williams: Commander, I wanted to...
Shepard: Williams, report to the shuttle for immediate reassignment.
Williams: But, Shepard...
Shepard: That's an order Lieutenant! Move out!
Williams: Aye, Aye Sir! (Ashley departs stage left)
 
How hard was that? Took less time to do the dialog than it did to drink 1/4 cup of coffee. Williams then disappears into the elevator and then you see a generic cutscene with the shuttle departing the Normandy and it is a done deal. Personally, I call this the "get the f#$@ off my ship" scenario, or GTFOMS for short. This works for any annoying crewman who prefers to get their hind parts up on their shoulders and whine about choices you are forced into while steadfastly refusing to listen to reason. In fact, I advocate that the GTFOMS scenario be an option for each and every crew dialog. The renegades in particular will love this option.
 
For the Collector's Edition of ME3, I am advocating that generic paperwork be included in the swag for any recalcitrant crewman that questions your GTFOMS order to prepare for an immediate Court Martial for said crewman followed by an execution for violating orders during a time of war with Shepard acting as judge, jury, and executioner (Shepard smiling as said crewmember is blown out of the airlock, not included). I call this the Helena Cain Elevation or HCE for short and it will only be available with the CE or by DLC. Order your Collector's Edition now because supplies are limited!
 
Finally, any stats, numbers, etc., that are not also accompanied with a full explanation of where and how such things were obtained will be ignored as fluff in order to pad the post.

[Made Nightwing]

knightnblu wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

As for Williams being aboard the Normandy, you can always put her on the shuttle and send her to Admiral Hackett for assignment to the cruiser of frigate of her choice sans the Normandy. But I don't think that the game designers will allow that so we are stuck with her whether we like it or not. I really hope that they smooth over the ruffled feathers in ME3 because I am still irritated about it.

 

Let me get this straight. You actually want Bioware to waste time and resources adding an option to completely remove a character from the game? A character that 40% of the overall fanbase has been actively clamouring/politely requesting to have back in the game and have more plot relevance, dialogue and romance? And that 50% more have been mostly indifferent, but still happy to get back? But because 10% want the character completely removed from their gameplay experience, Bioware should pander to them?

That's what you're after? Good. Just making sure.

OK, I am going to assume that you are semi-serious and not merely trolling for a second. First, my post was partly serious and partly humorous (to me anyway). If you have actually read my posts on this thread then you are aware of my assertions regarding Williams and know that I respect her as a solider and as a character, but that doesn't mean that I wish to associate with her after what she pulled on Horizon.
 
Secondly, what is so difficult and time consuming to remove a character from a game? I used to do it all of the time with the NWN toolset and it wasn't time consuming or difficult. You write some dialog, script an exit, and bang, you're done. In fact, it could go something like this:
 
Williams: Commander, I wanted to...
Shepard: Williams, report to the shuttle for immediate reassignment.
Williams: But, Shepard...
Shepard: That's an order Lieutenant! Move out!
Williams: Aye, Aye Sir! (Ashley departs stage left)
 
How hard was that? Took less time to do the dialog than it did to drink 1/4 cup of coffee. Williams then disappears into the elevator and then you see a generic cutscene with the shuttle departing the Normandy and it is a done deal. Personally, I call this the "get the f#$@ off my ship" scenario, or GTFOMS for short. This works for any annoying crewman who prefers to get their hind parts up on their shoulders and whine about choices you are forced into while steadfastly refusing to listen to reason. In fact, I advocate that the GTFOMS scenario be an option for each and every crew dialog. The renegades in particular will love this option.
 
For the Collector's Edition of ME3, I am advocating that generic paperwork be included in the swag for any recalcitrant crewman that questions your GTFOMS order to prepare for an immediate Court Martial for said crewman followed by an execution for violating orders during a time of war with Shepard acting as judge, jury, and executioner (Shepard smiling as said crewmember is blown out of the airlock, not included). I call this the Helena Cain Elevation or HCE for short and it will only be available with the CE or by DLC. Order your Collector's Edition now because supplies are limited!
 
Finally, any stats, numbers, etc., that are not also accompanied with a full explanation of where and how such things were obtained will be ignored as fluff in order to pad the post.

Quite simple, if more than 10% of people wanted a character gone because that character was going through a difficult part of their story arc, then I would despair for the future of gaming. I refuse to believe that more than 10% of people are that petty.

Then again, when I consider the average content of most threads are a few intelligent posts, some trolls, some over the top counter trolls, an attempt at peacemaking, then either peace or a mod with a banhammer

Your whole scenario is reminiscent of someone who thinks the military still operates under the same rules and regulations that it did during the eighteenth and nineteenth century. The American Uniform Code of Military Justice does NOT permit for trials and executions aboard ships. It is the same in nearly every other Navy in the world, us Aussies don't do it. Nor do the Brits, the Chinese, the Indians, the Russians, nobody.

If a crew-member mutinies/refuses to obey a direct order because they consider it too dangerous/morally objectionable, then that crew-member will be confined to quarters/the brig, until it is possible to convene a court-martial ashore, with a JAG, a prosecutor, a defending council, and a jury of peers. Even in wartime, these rules must be followed. If Shepard were to do what you suggest, he would be reduced to the level of a common criminal, and should be tried as such after the war, regardless of whether he stopped the Reapers.

And no, it's a lot more difficult than you propose. Sure, the exit is easy, but then they have to write in all the dialogue that that character was SUPPOSED to have. I'm gonna take a stab in the dark, and say that the teammembers you start out with are gonna be Ash and Vega. You won't be able to get rid of Ash at the start, and once you've used them on a mission or two, you're comfortable fighting with them again, so why would you bother?

[redbaron76]

The problem with your last post knight is that I think that ashley actually has the command of the normandy during shepard's trial. If she is a spectre and we know she is LT she is the second highest ranked officer on normandy. And as normandy is a lliance vessel she would be in command of normandy pending the final decission of Shepards tribunal, be it either millitary or by a bunch of politicians. And while waiting for final decission of tribunal shepard would not have ability to request transfer of personel since he is only a commander. Admiral of the fifth fleet is only authorized to transfer personel from one assignmet to another.

[redbaron76]

To respond to whywhywhy post in regards to my statement, we only have your word that horizon scene was a plot hole. You and knight are so hard headed that you can not see that horizon was not plot hole. Developers stated tha ashley could not go on the suicide mission. Also it could have been done to create friction that shepard and ashley have to work out. But i think more than likely that ashley was ordered by anderson or hacket to say what she said to shepard.

[Lucifer_Cheney]

I like Miranda as a character and definitely as a squadmate, but as a LI, I dismissed her the moment she told my Shep she would have implanted a compliance chip in his head. Its hard to go from that to smashing in the engine room.