1035 réponses à ce sujet

[Sshodan]

redbaron76 wrote...

The problem with your last post knight is that I think that ashley actually has the command of the normandy during shepard's trial. If she is a spectre and we know she is LT she is the second highest ranked officer on normandy. And as normandy is a lliance vessel she would be in command of normandy pending the final decission of Shepards tribunal, be it either millitary or by a bunch of politicians. And while waiting for final decission of tribunal shepard would not have ability to request transfer of personel since he is only a commander. Admiral of the fifth fleet is only authorized to transfer personel from one assignmet to another.

Good thing my Shep is renegade than, I humbly request an option to put a bullet through VS's head if they refuse to relinquish my ship, without any reassignment.
In ME1 I stole Normady from the Citadel
In ME2 I stole the second version form Cerberus
It's only fair that in ME3 I get to steal it from Alliance, since they stole it form me
See? knightnblu  is actually reasonable! LOL

Modifié par Sshodan, 20 juillet 2011 - 11:08 .

[redbaron76]

You have a point there sshosdan. And we did not officialy steal normandy in ME 1. it was shepards ship placed in lock down. Shepard was never relieved of Normandy command. Secon theft from the alliance is not possible since shepard is still part of alliance even if you are renegade. And as to you liking to get option to pull a renegade option like the one you stated, i think it is only a wish. It is highly unlikely bioware would allow something like that.

[Made Nightwing]

Sshodan wrote...

redbaron76 wrote...

The problem with your last post knight is that I think that ashley actually has the command of the normandy during shepard's trial. If she is a spectre and we know she is LT she is the second highest ranked officer on normandy. And as normandy is a lliance vessel she would be in command of normandy pending the final decission of Shepards tribunal, be it either millitary or by a bunch of politicians. And while waiting for final decission of tribunal shepard would not have ability to request transfer of personel since he is only a commander. Admiral of the fifth fleet is only authorized to transfer personel from one assignmet to another.

Good thing my Shep is renegade than, I humbly request an option to put a bullet through VS's head if they refuse to relinquish my ship, without any reassignment.
In ME1 I stole Normady from the Citadel
In ME2 I stole the second version form Cerberus
It's only fair that in ME3 I get to steal it from Alliance, since they stole it form me
See? knightnblu  is actually reasonable! LOL

And your Shepard would then cross the line from anti-hero to common criminal.

[Sshodan]

@redbaron76
No, I don't think they will. But they can make an effort to make me less murderous towards VS, no?
I can be reasonable, but they need to make me want to be.

@ Made Nightwing
I already considered joining Cerberus full time - at last they believe me. And since they got indoctrinated I can replace TIM with my self just fine, thank you. Who wants to be a hero anyway?

Modifié par Sshodan, 20 juillet 2011 - 11:28 .

[Made Nightwing]

Sshodan wrote...

@redbaron76
No, I don't think they will. But they can make an effort to make me less murderous towards VS, no?
I can be reasonable, but they need to make me want to be.

@ Made Nightwing
I already considered joining Cerberus full time - at last they believe me. And since they got indoctrinated I can replace TIM with my self just fine, thank you. Who wants to be a hero anyway?

Hey, I have Sheps like that. But there's a difference between doing what's necessary for the good of humanity, and straight up murdering an ally who doesn't expect it.

[redbaron76]

@sshodan
Why are you so mad at VS?

[Sshodan]

@ Made Nightwing
The VS will expect it - I'll ask them to get out of my ship politely first And if they stand between me and stopping the reapers by not letting me command the mission, when I'm obviously the one who knows what has to be done, than I'm considering removing the obstacle to be for the good of humanity.
If we are to save anyone there has to be one commander, better sort it out as soon as possible.
But I do hope that Bioware will put a peaceful option and good enough dialog to make me want to use it

@ redbaron76
Because I don't like people who fail my trust and call me a traitor? Long story short - if Talli after Cerberus attack on flotilla followed me, if Garrus followed me to watch my back, if Joker, my doctor, engineers on my ship followed me even thou they disagreed with Cerberus on everything else VS should have at least given me a benefit of a doubt. Especially if they where a LI.
Right now I don't need any more people who do not believe a word I say on my crew.

Modifié par Sshodan, 20 juillet 2011 - 11:40 .

[redbaron76]

@ Sshosdan
But shepard also betrayed Ashleys trust. He did not contact ashley as soon as he was woken up. He did not contact alliance and he was working with cerberus, in a way Ashley was right shepard is a traitor since he is officialy considered AWOL. And since he stands trial by aliance he still is aliance officer. Ashley was right to call him taraitor, altough it was very emotional cat call. She did not betray shepard's trust. And since we all know that shepard is a good officer he knows that emotional outbursts are expected in certain situation, and that person calling him a traitordid not realy ment it.

[Sshodan]

@ redbaron76
"Dear aunt Merry, I know you are dead but it is not a reason not to respond to my letters!"
My Shep found the VS as soon as it was possible, after you know... Being dead for 2 years? And working up under fire... It was not easy to find the VS on Horizon of all places! I asked where VS was right after being brought back alive and went to meet them as soon as I got any idea where thery where.
Shep is officially considered a Specter, and was reinstated, so he can't be AWOL - I visited the Citadel the first chance I got to report back and tell them I'm alive again.
And no, I don't care about VS's emotions, it was an emotional reunion with Garrus and Tali and Joker as well, yet they did not spurt all that nonsense at me. I'm not even talking about how emotional Shep was after being resurrected by Cerberus of all things!

Modifié par Sshodan, 21 juillet 2011 - 12:06 .

[whywhywhywhy]

redbaron76 wrote...

To respond to whywhywhy post in regards to my statement, we only have your word that horizon scene was a plot hole. You and knight are so hard headed that you can not see that horizon was not plot hole. Developers stated tha ashley could not go on the suicide mission. Also it could have been done to create friction that shepard and ashley have to work out. But i think more than likely that ashley was ordered by anderson or hacket to say what she said to shepard.

Your not addressing all the reasoning that was brought up in the thread, your responding to all of that with this overarching generalization to explain your position. ....???

It has nothing to do with being "hard head" you just haven't presented a alternate possibility that explains Ash's actions in a way that they could not be a plothole.  Sorry but it's true.

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 21 juillet 2011 - 12:03 .

[Made Nightwing]

Sshodan wrote...

@ redbaron76
"Dear aunt Merry, I know you are dead but it is not a reason not to respond to my letters!"
My Shep found the VS as soon as it was possible, after you know... Being dead for 2 years? And working up under fire... It was not easy to find the VS on Horizon of all places! I asked where VS was right after being brought back alive and went to meet them as soon as I got any idea where thery where.
Shep is officially considered a Specter, and was reinstated, so he can't be AWOL - I visited the Citadel the first chance I got to report back and tell them I'm alive again.
And no, I don't care about VS's emotions, it was an emotional reunion with Garrus and Tali and Joker as well, yet they did not spurt all that nonsense at me. I'm not even talking about how emotions Shep was after being resurrected by Cerberus of all things!

Right, because all video game characters have the same temperament, and are expected to react the exact same way as all the other characters.

[Made Nightwing]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

redbaron76 wrote...

To respond to whywhywhy post in regards to my statement, we only have your word that horizon scene was a plot hole. You and knight are so hard headed that you can not see that horizon was not plot hole. Developers stated tha ashley could not go on the suicide mission. Also it could have been done to create friction that shepard and ashley have to work out. But i think more than likely that ashley was ordered by anderson or hacket to say what she said to shepard.

Your not addressing all the reasoning that was brought up in the thread, your responding to all of that with this overarching generalization to explain your position. ....???

It has nothing to do with being "hard head" you just haven't presented a alternate possibility that explains Ash's actions in a way that they could not be a plothole.  Sorry but it's true.

But...we have done this. About a thousand times. And you always say: 'Yes, but you're opinion is based on assumptions that have no hard facts.'

[Sshodan]

@ Made Nightwing
No, they are not. So Bioware can keep the bad tempered once to themselves
Long story short - I don't coddle my team, and I'm not going to coddle VS.
I don't need people who second guess me without even bothering to get all the facts, and I don't intend to let VS do so.
VS has a right to heir reaction and I have a right to stop dealing with them after they had it. It's that simple. It's reaper invasion out there, why should I earn someones trust the second time around, or calm down hysterical squad mates when I have a galaxy to save?
If VS wants on my team they'll have to earn the right to be there.

Modifié par Sshodan, 21 juillet 2011 - 12:13 .

[Made Nightwing]

Sshodan wrote...

@ Made Nightwing
No, they are not. So Bioware can keep the bad tempered once to themselves
Long story short - I don't coddle my team, and I'm not going to coddle VS.
I don't need people who second guess me without even bothering to get all the facts, and I don't intend to let VS do so.
VS has a right to heir reaction and I have a right to stop dealing with them after they had it. It's that simple. It's reaper invasion out there, why should I earn someones trust the second time around, or calm down hysterical squad mates when I have a galaxy to save?
If VS wants on my team they'll have to earn the right to be there.

Okay then. Uh, enjoy your game?

[knightnblu]

Made Nightwing wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

As for Williams being aboard the Normandy, you can always put her on the shuttle and send her to Admiral Hackett for assignment to the cruiser of frigate of her choice sans the Normandy. But I don't think that the game designers will allow that so we are stuck with her whether we like it or not. I really hope that they smooth over the ruffled feathers in ME3 because I am still irritated about it.

 

Let me get this straight. You actually want Bioware to waste time and resources adding an option to completely remove a character from the game? A character that 40% of the overall fanbase has been actively clamouring/politely requesting to have back in the game and have more plot relevance, dialogue and romance? And that 50% more have been mostly indifferent, but still happy to get back? But because 10% want the character completely removed from their gameplay experience, Bioware should pander to them?

That's what you're after? Good. Just making sure.

OK, I am going to assume that you are semi-serious and not merely trolling for a second. First, my post was partly serious and partly humorous (to me anyway). If you have actually read my posts on this thread then you are aware of my assertions regarding Williams and know that I respect her as a solider and as a character, but that doesn't mean that I wish to associate with her after what she pulled on Horizon.
 
Secondly, what is so difficult and time consuming to remove a character from a game? I used to do it all of the time with the NWN toolset and it wasn't time consuming or difficult. You write some dialog, script an exit, and bang, you're done. In fact, it could go something like this:
 
Williams: Commander, I wanted to...
Shepard: Williams, report to the shuttle for immediate reassignment.
Williams: But, Shepard...
Shepard: That's an order Lieutenant! Move out!
Williams: Aye, Aye Sir! (Ashley departs stage left)
 
How hard was that? Took less time to do the dialog than it did to drink 1/4 cup of coffee. Williams then disappears into the elevator and then you see a generic cutscene with the shuttle departing the Normandy and it is a done deal. Personally, I call this the "get the f#$@ off my ship" scenario, or GTFOMS for short. This works for any annoying crewman who prefers to get their hind parts up on their shoulders and whine about choices you are forced into while steadfastly refusing to listen to reason. In fact, I advocate that the GTFOMS scenario be an option for each and every crew dialog. The renegades in particular will love this option.
 
For the Collector's Edition of ME3, I am advocating that generic paperwork be included in the swag for any recalcitrant crewman that questions your GTFOMS order to prepare for an immediate Court Martial for said crewman followed by an execution for violating orders during a time of war with Shepard acting as judge, jury, and executioner (Shepard smiling as said crewmember is blown out of the airlock, not included). I call this the Helena Cain Elevation or HCE for short and it will only be available with the CE or by DLC. Order your Collector's Edition now because supplies are limited!
 
Finally, any stats, numbers, etc., that are not also accompanied with a full explanation of where and how such things were obtained will be ignored as fluff in order to pad the post.

Quite simple, if more than 10% of people wanted a character gone because that character was going through a difficult part of their story arc, then I would despair for the future of gaming. I refuse to believe that more than 10% of people are that petty.

Then again, when I consider the average content of most threads are a few intelligent posts, some trolls, some over the top counter trolls, an attempt at peacemaking, then either peace or a mod with a banhammer

Your whole scenario is reminiscent of someone who thinks the military still operates under the same rules and regulations that it did during the eighteenth and nineteenth century. The American Uniform Code of Military Justice does NOT permit for trials and executions aboard ships. It is the same in nearly every other Navy in the world, us Aussies don't do it. Nor do the Brits, the Chinese, the Indians, the Russians, nobody.

If a crew-member mutinies/refuses to obey a direct order because they consider it too dangerous/morally objectionable, then that crew-member will be confined to quarters/the brig, until it is possible to convene a court-martial ashore, with a JAG, a prosecutor, a defending council, and a jury of peers. Even in wartime, these rules must be followed. If Shepard were to do what you suggest, he would be reduced to the level of a common criminal, and should be tried as such after the war, regardless of whether he stopped the Reapers.

And no, it's a lot more difficult than you propose. Sure, the exit is easy, but then they have to write in all the dialogue that that character was SUPPOSED to have. I'm gonna take a stab in the dark, and say that the teammembers you start out with are gonna be Ash and Vega. You won't be able to get rid of Ash at the start, and once you've used them on a mission or two, you're comfortable fighting with them again, so why would you bother?

You seem to be forgetting that the Captain's mast is a sort of trial carried out aboard a vessel and while you are correct that an execution or severe punishment is not a part of that, it was in fact a Battlestar Galactica reference to Admiral Cain's policy aboard her ship, the Pegasus and was intended only in jest.
 
Of course, the problem with being facetious is that it is difficult to get across in the written word because the accompanying facial expressions and gesticulations are not present. However, I would have assumed that the near insanity of it would have granted most readers a clue that it was intended to be tongue in cheek.
 
My point is a simple one: Ashley was way out of line on Horizon. Period. As her former Commanding Officer and LI, I really would rather she find somewhere else to be because of her steadfast refusal to believe a damned thing that I said on Horizon. Either that, or fix her malfunction. If we are talking about what I really want, I want a credible explanation from Williams about her behavior or I don't want her on my ship, assuming of course that I am still the Captain of the Normandy. If it is Williams or Vega, then I will just have to deal with it or find something else to fly in.
 
Frankly, Williams has broken faith with me and I no longer trust her. Therefore, her actions and motivations are now subject to suspicion. If she got her panties all knotted up over my working with Cerberus on Horizon, I know that she is going to go nuclear over my killing 300K+ Batarian civilians including women and children in the Viper system. If she thought I was misguided then, she is bound to see me as the Prince of Evil now and there really isn't any point in trying to explain it to her because she has proven that she won't listen. She'll just believe that I am Cerberus through and through with a touch of Attila the Hun and Hitler thrown in for good measure.
 
So why bother? That's why I don't want her on my ship, if in fact it still is my ship, and why I really don't want anything more to do with her. It isn't that I don't like her, it's that I don't want to waste my breath trying to explain my actions to a brick wall. Other people may find that entertaining, but I don't.
 
So, with regards to Williams, GTFOMS.

[knightnblu]

redbaron76 wrote...

@ Sshosdan
But shepard also betrayed Ashleys trust. He did not contact ashley as soon as he was woken up. He did not contact alliance and he was working with cerberus, in a way Ashley was right shepard is a traitor since he is officialy considered AWOL. And since he stands trial by aliance he still is aliance officer. Ashley was right to call him taraitor, altough it was very emotional cat call. She did not betray shepard's trust. And since we all know that shepard is a good officer he knows that emotional outbursts are expected in certain situation, and that person calling him a traitordid not realy ment it.

What? I can't even imagine that. Consider:

Voice on loudspeaker: Shepard get up!
Shepard: uggghh
Voice on loudspeaker: Shepard can you hear me? This facility is under attack. I need you to get up!
Shepard: (sits up and rubs facial scars)
Voice on loudspeaker: Your scars aren't healed, but we don't have time! I need you to get on your feet!
Shepard: Hang on a minute, I have to call my girlfriend before I act to save my life. (looks for sub-space pay phone)

I just can't see that. My Shep did go directly to the Citadel after Freedom's Progress and tried to get Anderson to tell him where Ashley was, but no dice. It would seem that any attempt to contact Ashley was doomed to failure regardless of your intentions. Can anybody say TIM?

[Made Nightwing]

knightnblu wrote...


You seem to be forgetting that the Captain's mast is a sort of trial carried out aboard a vessel and while you are correct that an execution or severe punishment is not a part of that, it was in fact a Battlestar Galactica reference to Admiral Cain's policy aboard her ship, the Pegasus and was intended only in jest.
 
Of course, the problem with being facetious is that it is difficult to get across in the written word because the accompanying facial expressions and gesticulations are not present. However, I would have assumed that the near insanity of it would have granted most readers a clue that it was intended to be tongue in cheek.
 
My point is a simple one: Ashley was way out of line on Horizon. Period. As her former Commanding Officer and LI, I really would rather she find somewhere else to be because of her steadfast refusal to believe a damned thing that I said on Horizon. Either that, or fix her malfunction. If we are talking about what I really want, I want a credible explanation from Williams about her behavior or I don't want her on my ship, assuming of course that I am still the Captain of the Normandy. If it is Williams or Vega, then I will just have to deal with it or find something else to fly in.
 
Frankly, Williams has broken faith with me and I no longer trust her. Therefore, her actions and motivations are now subject to suspicion. If she got her panties all knotted up over my working with Cerberus on Horizon, I know that she is going to go nuclear over my killing 300K+ Batarian civilians including women and children in the Viper system. If she thought I was misguided then, she is bound to see me as the Prince of Evil now and there really isn't any point in trying to explain it to her because she has proven that she won't listen. She'll just believe that I am Cerberus through and through with a touch of Attila the Hun and Hitler thrown in for good measure.
 
So why bother? That's why I don't want her on my ship, if in fact it still is my ship, and why I really don't want anything more to do with her. It isn't that I don't like her, it's that I don't want to waste my breath trying to explain my actions to a brick wall. Other people may find that entertaining, but I don't.
 
So, with regards to Williams, GTFOMS.

Apologies, but the whole 'Lol, gonna flush them out the airlock' crowd has proven themselves very serious (if they can be described as such) It's impossible to know who's joking anymore.

It would have been betrayal if she hadn't been blindsided by Anderson, had had all the facts, and been in a calm, relaxed frame of mind. Instead, she hasn't been told ****, and is under heavy emotional stress.

So...she's going to be in the game anyway, why not STFU and enjoy it? That was a joke.

Modifié par Made Nightwing, 21 juillet 2011 - 12:49 .

[knightnblu]

I would STFU, but I'm hard headed  lol

[Made Nightwing]

knightnblu wrote...

I would STFU, but I'm hard headed  lol

Oh ****. I just realised. You and me? We're what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object. I think we're going to do this forever.

[Quole]

Dont argue with Made. Hes a troll.

[Made Nightwing]

Quole wrote...

Dont argue with Made. Hes a troll.

Ah damn. Quole the Troll's arrived.

[whywhywhywhy]

Made Nightwing wrote...

whywhywhywhy wrote...

redbaron76 wrote...

To respond to whywhywhy post in regards to my statement, we only have your word that horizon scene was a plot hole. You and knight are so hard headed that you can not see that horizon was not plot hole. Developers stated tha ashley could not go on the suicide mission. Also it could have been done to create friction that shepard and ashley have to work out. But i think more than likely that ashley was ordered by anderson or hacket to say what she said to shepard.

Your not addressing all the reasoning that was brought up in the thread, your responding to all of that with this overarching generalization to explain your position. ....???

It has nothing to do with being "hard head" you just haven't presented a alternate possibility that explains Ash's actions in a way that they could not be a plothole.  Sorry but it's true.

But...we have done this. About a thousand times. And you always say: 'Yes, but you're opinion is based on assumptions that have no hard facts.'

Well I just when through the entire thread and the only post I seen that you made in reference to me was on page 8 when I talked about the importance of retrieving the body of fallen soldiers and you agreed.  You then went on to say they couldn't find him in the terminus systems but in the opening scene Sheperd sends out a SOS and his LI asks if they'll make it in time.

Redbaron76 post on page 6 talks about Ashley's calling Sheperd a traitor cover for him to go undercover.  Kind of strange as Sheperd's dead when Cerberus gets ahold of him.  And the player is in control of him once revived.


Redbaron76 post on page 7 talks about Sheperd being a traitor so it was appropriate for Ashley to call him a traitor.  Sheperds goal was resources/backing so he could go after the Collectors who work for the Reapers who are trying to destroy the galaxy.  Why does the Citedal Council or Anderson (dependant on playstyle) reinstate your Spectre status after verifying you are indeed working with Cerberus if your a traitor ?  Keep in mind Anderson is part of the Alliance and in some cases a Counsilor as well. 

Sheperd's association with Cerberus can be sumed up in two ways; Keep your enemies close.  The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Redbaron76 post on page 9 Calls in to question the importance of Horizon stating Ashley's reasons for being there then Challenges Knight's claim that we've stomped out plotholes in BW's burning script.

So no thousand posts not even ten addressing:
Why the military didn't arrange for Ship wreckage retrival ?
Why the military didn't search for remains of the fallen ?
Why the military didn't retrieve the dogtags ?
Why Ashley didn't do any of the above ?
Why Sheperd was given a tip to do the dogtags 2 years later ?
Why Ash refused to listen to Sheperd ?
Why Ash didn't take Sheperd in Custody ?
Why is Sheperd expected to apologize for being incapacitated for 2 years ?
Why Ash as a LI didn't have more to say to Sheperd, if his death affected her the way she claims why no closure ?
What is Ash's reasoning for her behavior ?  And why does she think a text msg fixes things ?
Why is Ash doesn't trust him out of all the crew and Alliance soldier who joined Cerberus trusting Sheperd ?

That's enough to start.
@Made Nightwing. I've just handed you a big silver platter, guess what's in it.

[Made Nightwing]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

Well I just when through the entire thread and the only post I seen that you made in reference to me was on page 8 when I talked about the importance of retrieving the body of fallen soldiers and you agreed.  You then went on to say they couldn't find him in the terminus systems but in the opening scene Sheperd sends out a SOS and his LI asks if they'll make it in time.

Redbaron76 post on page 6 talks about Ashley's calling Sheperd a traitor cover for him to go undercover.  Kind of strange as Sheperd's dead when Cerberus gets ahold of him.  And the player is in control of him once revived.


Redbaron76 post on page 7 talks about Sheperd being a traitor so it was appropriate for Ashley to call him a traitor.  Sheperds goal was resources/backing so he could go after the Collectors who work for the Reapers who are trying to destroy the galaxy.  Why does the Citedal Council or Anderson (dependant on playstyle) reinstate your Spectre status after verifying you are indeed working with Cerberus if your a traitor ?  Keep in mind Anderson is part of the Alliance and in some cases a Counsilor as well. 

Sheperd's association with Cerberus can be sumed up in two ways; Keep your enemies close.  The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Redbaron76 post on page 9 Calls in to question the importance of Horizon stating Ashley's reasons for being there then Challenges Knight's claim that we've stomped out plotholes in BW's burning script.

So no thousand posts not even ten addressing:
Why the military didn't arrange for Ship wreckage retrival ?
Why the military didn't search for remains of the fallen ?
Why the military didn't retrieve the dogtags ?
Why Ashley didn't do any of the above ?
Why Sheperd was given a tip to do the dogtags 2 years later ?
Why Ash refused to listen to Sheperd ?
Why Ash didn't take Sheperd in Custody ?
Why is Sheperd expected to apologize for being incapacitated for 2 years ?
Why Ash as a LI didn't have more to say to Sheperd, if his death affected her the way she claims why no closure ?
What is Ash's reasoning for her behavior ?  And why does she think a text msg fixes things ?
Why is Ash doesn't trust him out of all the crew and Alliance soldier who joined Cerberus trusting Sheperd ?

That's enough to start.
@Made Nightwing. I've just handed you a big silver platter, guess what's in it.

At last. A worthy opponent. *flexes mind muscles*

Redbaron was writing from Ashley's perspective, he just neglected to mention that fact. From Ashley's perspective, if Shepard is alive, he must have escaped, faked his death and gone undercover with Cerberus, or else, gone completely rogue. (Faking somone's death is tricky, but people have successfully done it before)

I'll address your first hree questions first, about the retrieval of wreckage and the fallen, and dogtags. The Normandy broke up in atmosphere, this is undeniable. We see her shot to pieces in the opening scene, the Collector's did a real good job on that. It's likely that there are bodies and pieces of wreckage scattered along the length and breadth of Alchera.

For the retrieval of all the wreckage and remains, the Alliance has...maybe half of 5th Fleet available? The Alliance took heavy losses at the Citadel, and they're feeling them. Again, this is the Terminus Systems, really near Omega as a matter of fact. There are literally thousands of pirates and raiders all hanging around, feeling threatened by an Alliance military presence. To prevent a war, the Alliance would have had to either gone in strong for a brief period (ala, US incursions into Mogadishu), or tried to go in with a smaller presence, and try to remain undetected. Neither way is an efficient method of body and wreckage retrieval. It's likely that Shepard just got....missed.

On the flip side, a mercenary group based on Omega, funded by the Shadowbroker, and with enough time and resources (they are close to their own supply lines, the Alliance fleet would be on the far end of its own), they could take as much time as they want to find Shep's body.

Onto the next one, why Ash didn't do it. Practical reasons? I think she might have tried, but been declined permission by the higher ups. Emotional? She probably had some kind of Heroic Blue Screen of Death, just given up on everything for a while, like Joker and Garrus.

gotta grab lunch, will be back to answer more later.

[whywhywhywhy]

Made Nightwing wrote...

At last. A worthy opponent. *flexes mind muscles*

Redbaron was writing from Ashley's perspective, he just neglected to mention that fact. From Ashley's perspective, if Shepard is alive, he must have escaped, faked his death and gone undercover with Cerberus, or else, gone completely rogue. (Faking somone's death is tricky, but people have successfully done it before)

If Ash is a Spectre she can see his restored status reports and etc.  If she is not yet a spectre then she should have been in search of answers not so dismissive.  If he had did all those things Ash doesn't want to ask him why ? And Listen ?

Made Nightwing wrote...
I'll address your first hree questions first, about the retrieval of wreckage and the fallen, and dogtags. The Normandy broke up in atmosphere, this is undeniable. We see her shot to pieces in the opening scene, the Collector's did a real good job on that. It's likely that there are bodies and pieces of wreckage scattered along the length and breadth of Alchera.

So Sheperd and his single ship can get in to get the dogtags ? Two years is a long time and SR1 was only a prototype I'm sure another would have had to been made.  As a matter of fact I have a strong hunch that the alliance vessel will be a alliance built vessel and the Cerberus Vessel dismantled in attempts to understand how it got through the O4 relay. 

Made Nightwing wrote...
For the retrieval of all the wreckage and remains, the Alliance has...maybe half of 5th Fleet available? The Alliance took heavy losses at the Citadel, and they're feeling them. Again, this is the Terminus Systems, really near Omega as a matter of fact. There are literally thousands of pirates and raiders all hanging around, feeling threatened by an Alliance military presence. To prevent a war, the Alliance would have had to either gone in strong for a brief period (ala, US incursions into Mogadishu), or tried to go in with a smaller presence, and try to remain undetected. Neither way is an efficient method of body and wreckage retrieval. It's likely that Shepard just got....missed.

They have a lot more to lose with a ship with at the time cutting edge technology sitting where pirates and merc groups could get to it. Regardless of resources a push should have been made to secure military secrets in retrieval or destroy it.  How long does it take to gather dogtags ?  The point is nothing was done, nothing. 

Made Nightwing wrote...
On the flip side, a mercenary group based on Omega, funded by the Shadowbroker, and with enough time and resources (they are close to their own supply lines, the Alliance fleet would be on the far end of its own), they could take as much time as they want to find Shep's body.

The Shadow Broker obtaining his body is exactly what happens when the military doesn't do anything.  Verification of the death of humanity's 1st spectre is worth the resources.  No one saw him die, not even joker.

Made Nightwing wrote...
Onto the next one, why Ash didn't do it. Practical reasons? I think she might have tried, but been declined permission by the higher ups. Emotional? She probably had some kind of Heroic Blue Screen of Death, just given up on everything for a while, like Joker and Garrus.

gotta grab lunch, will be back to answer more later.

So do you think a request for leave would have been denied given the tragic circumstances ?  She could have easily taken time away matter of fact it is encouraged after something like that.  She could have searched independantly or even joined up with Liara, why not talk to the rest of the crew and find out what they are going to do ?

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 21 juillet 2011 - 02:18 .

[Made Nightwing]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

At last. A worthy opponent. *flexes mind muscles*

Redbaron was writing from Ashley's perspective, he just neglected to mention that fact. From Ashley's perspective, if Shepard is alive, he must have escaped, faked his death and gone undercover with Cerberus, or else, gone completely rogue. (Faking somone's death is tricky, but people have successfully done it before)

If Ash is a Spectre she can see his restored status reports and etc.  If she is not yet a spectre then she should have been in search of answers not so dismissive.  If he had did all those things Ash doesn't want to ask him why ? And Listen ?

Made Nightwing wrote...
I'll address your first hree questions first, about the retrieval of wreckage and the fallen, and dogtags. The Normandy broke up in atmosphere, this is undeniable. We see her shot to pieces in the opening scene, the Collector's did a real good job on that. It's likely that there are bodies and pieces of wreckage scattered along the length and breadth of Alchera.

So Sheperd and his single ship can get in to get the dogtags ? Two years is a long time and SR1 was only a prototype I'm sure another would have had to been made.  As a matter of fact I have a strong hunch that the alliance vessel will be a alliance built vessel and the Cerberus Vessel dismantled in attempts to understand how it got through the O4 relay. 

Made Nightwing wrote...
For the retrieval of all the wreckage and remains, the Alliance has...maybe half of 5th Fleet available? The Alliance took heavy losses at the Citadel, and they're feeling them. Again, this is the Terminus Systems, really near Omega as a matter of fact. There are literally thousands of pirates and raiders all hanging around, feeling threatened by an Alliance military presence. To prevent a war, the Alliance would have had to either gone in strong for a brief period (ala, US incursions into Mogadishu), or tried to go in with a smaller presence, and try to remain undetected. Neither way is an efficient method of body and wreckage retrieval. It's likely that Shepard just got....missed.

They have a lot more to lose with a ship with at the time cutting edge technology sitting where pirates and merc groups could get to it. Regardless of resources a push should have been made to secure military secrets in retrieval or destroy it.  How long does it take to gather dogtags ?  The point is nothing was done, nothing. 

Made Nightwing wrote...
On the flip side, a mercenary group based on Omega, funded by the Shadowbroker, and with enough time and resources (they are close to their own supply lines, the Alliance fleet would be on the far end of its own), they could take as much time as they want to find Shep's body.

The Shadow Broker obtaining his body is exactly what happens when the military doesn't do anything.  Verification of the death of humanity's 1st spectre is worth the resources.  No one saw him die, not even joker.

Made Nightwing wrote...
Onto the next one, why Ash didn't do it. Practical reasons? I think she might have tried, but been declined permission by the higher ups. Emotional? She probably had some kind of Heroic Blue Screen of Death, just given up on everything for a while, like Joker and Garrus.

gotta grab lunch, will be back to answer more later.

So do you think a request for leave would have been denied given the tragic circumstances ?  She could have easily taken time away matter of fact it is encouraged after something like that.  She could have searched independantly or even joined up with Liara, why not talk to the rest of the crew and find out what they are going to do ?

Look, I can't do a damn thing about how the writers worded the plot. If I had more details on the 5fth Fleet's manpower and resources., then I could make a better estimate.

We only saw a fraction of the area that the Normandy crashed in. Say the initial search party had a limit of three weeks to conduct retrieval operations. that's enough time to remove many of the Normandy's critical systems that survived the crash, with standard errors such as equipment malfunctions and pirate's skirmishing with escort vessels. There are loopholes that give an indication as to what went wrong.