1035 réponses à ce sujet

[Made Nightwing]

Vexed Forest wrote...

Yes. Ashley is my favorite LI. I actually liked the poetry. I hope that having dinner with Kelly isn't considered cheating.

Shepard: Ash, put the gun down.  I just wanted her to feed my fish.

[RPGamer13]

I don't see how she garners so much hate after Mass Effect 2, I find her reaction of Virmire very natural and acceptable. She feels betrayed by Shepard after going after Cerberus in Mass Effect 1.

It's also what makes Ashley well, Ashley. She's very rooted in her beliefs and it turns out she was right about Cerberus. I also feel Shepard was in denial, especially if Shepard was 100% paragon. A Renegade Shepard felt like she was using Cerberus as much as she could to accomplish her goals, whatever they may have been.

Although I don't have much experience playing 100% Paragon and the few Paragon choices I made in Mass Effect 2, didn't have as much impact on Shepard's view point as it did in the first game.

[DCYNIGR8]

For my canon MaleShep, she sure is. Ash is my favourite LI, though Miranda and Tali are close.

I agree with the above about the anger generated towards the VS after the events of Horizon, the reaction is very much in character. Both Ash and Kaidan are totally loyal to the Alliance, coupled with seeing Cerberus' dirty work in ME firsthand, as well as the shock of Shep's return, their reaction is understandable.

[Uzrbital]

No. Tali got a bucket on her head, Ash doesn't.

[knightnblu]

Well, if she is that darned loyal to the Alliance then let her take them as a love interest. Loyalty to the person that you say you "loved" should count for something. Hell, maybe it's me. Maybe love, commitment, and honor have no meaning anymore and they are just empty words. But where I come from, they have a very real and very deep meaning. They are not transitory and they are not fluff used to pad greeting cards.

Williams portrays herself as a soldier first and foremost. She says that she has to be better than the best in order to amount to anything. I guess that doesn't include being a lover. In ME1 she acts like she has honor and integrity. In ME2, she proves that she doesn't. She takes the rumors over the man that has saved her life three times. In my book, that don't count for much.

Maybe she did hold true to the alliance and was in lockstep with their reasoning that Shepard was a traitor and that is why she sold Shepard up the river. Bravo for her if she did, but why should I still be enamored of her for doing that? I was the one that she sold up the river.

I don't hate Williams, but I am no longer her best friend for the crap she pulled on Horizon. As far as I am concerned, I don't want her on my ship and if she's in command of the Normandy, then I'm finding another ride at the earliest opportunity. I have nothing against anyone who admires Ashley for her stunt on Horizon, but I certainly am not amongst them.

[Made Nightwing]

knightnblu wrote...

Well, if she is that darned loyal to the Alliance then let her take them as a love interest. Loyalty to the person that you say you "loved" should count for something. Hell, maybe it's me. Maybe love, commitment, and honor have no meaning anymore and they are just empty words. But where I come from, they have a very real and very deep meaning. They are not transitory and they are not fluff used to pad greeting cards.

Williams portrays herself as a soldier first and foremost. She says that she has to be better than the best in order to amount to anything. I guess that doesn't include being a lover. In ME1 she acts like she has honor and integrity. In ME2, she proves that she doesn't. She takes the rumors over the man that has saved her life three times. In my book, that don't count for much.

Maybe she did hold true to the alliance and was in lockstep with their reasoning that Shepard was a traitor and that is why she sold Shepard up the river. Bravo for her if she did, but why should I still be enamored of her for doing that? I was the one that she sold up the river.

I don't hate Williams, but I am no longer her best friend for the crap she pulled on Horizon. As far as I am concerned, I don't want her on my ship and if she's in command of the Normandy, then I'm finding another ride at the earliest opportunity. I have nothing against anyone who admires Ashley for her stunt on Horizon, but I certainly am not amongst them.

As people have pointed out before, Shepard was kinda dead for two years. It seems that Ash has anchored herself deeper to the Alliance in order to cope with losing him. Then he comes back and *BOOM*, she's displaced again. Humans are not always perfect and reasonable. Sometimes we're just people, we get upset, we say things we don't mean, and we're sorry for them afterwards.

[Baldrick67]

knightnblu wrote...

Well, if she is that darned loyal to the Alliance then let her take them as a love interest. Loyalty to the person that you say you "loved" should count for something. Hell, maybe it's me. Maybe love, commitment, and honor have no meaning anymore and they are just empty words. But where I come from, they have a very real and very deep meaning. They are not transitory and they are not fluff used to pad greeting cards.

Williams portrays herself as a soldier first and foremost. She says that she has to be better than the best in order to amount to anything. I guess that doesn't include being a lover. In ME1 she acts like she has honor and integrity. In ME2, she proves that she doesn't. She takes the rumors over the man that has saved her life three times. In my book, that don't count for much.

Maybe she did hold true to the alliance and was in lockstep with their reasoning that Shepard was a traitor and that is why she sold Shepard up the river. Bravo for her if she did, but why should I still be enamored of her for doing that? I was the one that she sold up the river.

I don't hate Williams, but I am no longer her best friend for the crap she pulled on Horizon. As far as I am concerned, I don't want her on my ship and if she's in command of the Normandy, then I'm finding another ride at the earliest opportunity. I have nothing against anyone who admires Ashley for her stunt on Horizon, but I certainly am not amongst them.

Did you miss Shepard arriving on Horizon in a CERBERUS ship with CERBERUS crew and CERBERUS equipment ?

Did you not play ME or did you skip all the inhumane things Cerberus did to civillians and alliance soldiers ? How easily you brush the murder of Admiral Kahoku under the rug.

[knightnblu]

Made Nightwing wrote...
 

knightnblu wrote...
 
Well, if she is that darned loyal to the Alliance then let her take them as a love interest. Loyalty to the person that you say you "loved" should count for something. <snip>
 

 
As people have pointed out before, Shepard was kinda dead for two years. It seems that Ash has anchored herself deeper to the Alliance in order to cope with losing him. Then he comes back and *BOOM*, she's displaced again. Humans are not always perfect and reasonable. Sometimes we're just people, we get upset, we say things we don't mean, and we're sorry for them afterwards.

 
True enough. However, those actions did not occur in a vacuum and there is often unpleasant sequela for such behavior. There is a story about a boy who said things he didn't mean in anger and his father told him to drive nails into a wooden fence in back of the family home rather than to say the things he wanted to because he was angry. After some time, the boy told his father he no longer felt like saying those things. His dad then told him to remove a nail for each day he didn't resort to that behavior. After a time, the boy had removed all of the nails and was left with a very scarred fence. His dad told the boy that words spoken in anger have the same effect in men, leaving similar scars upon their souls as the evidence of callous words spoken in anger.
 
While I understand that Williams spoke those words in anger, the effects of speaking those words remain. Therefore, she must regain the trust that she so casually flung aside in anger on Horizon. Frankly, I expect those words and worse to spill out of her mouth yet again when I am brought to trial on Earth for the events of Arrival as she testifies against me in ME3.
 
 
Baldrick67 - Back up a few pages and actually read some of my posts before you start down that road my friend.

[Made Nightwing]

knightnblu wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...
 

knightnblu wrote...
 
Well, if she is that darned loyal to the Alliance then let her take them as a love interest. Loyalty to the person that you say you "loved" should count for something. <snip>
 

 
As people have pointed out before, Shepard was kinda dead for two years. It seems that Ash has anchored herself deeper to the Alliance in order to cope with losing him. Then he comes back and *BOOM*, she's displaced again. Humans are not always perfect and reasonable. Sometimes we're just people, we get upset, we say things we don't mean, and we're sorry for them afterwards.

 
True enough. However, those actions did not occur in a vacuum and there is often unpleasant sequela for such behavior. There is a story about a boy who said things he didn't mean in anger and his father told him to drive nails into a wooden fence in back of the family home rather than to say the things he wanted to because he was angry. After some time, the boy told his father he no longer felt like saying those things. His dad then told him to remove a nail for each day he didn't resort to that behavior. After a time, the boy had removed all of the nails and was left with a very scarred fence. His dad told the boy that words spoken in anger have the same effect in men, leaving similar scars upon their souls as the evidence of callous words spoken in anger.
 
While I understand that Williams spoke those words in anger, the effects of speaking those words remain. Therefore, she must regain the trust that she so casually flung aside in anger on Horizon. Frankly, I expect those words and worse to spill out of her mouth yet again when I am brought to trial on Earth for the events of Arrival as she testifies against me in ME3.
 
 
Baldrick67 - Back up a few pages and actually read some of my posts before you start down that road my friend.

Well, that's a fair enough point. But where you expect her to testify against you, I expect her to testify for me. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[Iakus]

knightnblu wrote...

Well, if she is that darned loyal to the Alliance then let her take them as a love interest. Loyalty to the person that you say you "loved" should count for something. Hell, maybe it's me. Maybe love, commitment, and honor have no meaning anymore and they are just empty words. But where I come from, they have a very real and very deep meaning. They are not transitory and they are not fluff used to pad greeting cards.

And that's why I have to think somehting more is going on here.  Listening to Ash in ME1, loyalty is a huge part of her life:

She is devoted to the Alliance, even though she is third generation blacklisted by them.

She's religious in a universe where humans seem to think being religious is strange

Listen to her talk about her family.  She was very close to them. After her sister's "boyfriend incident"  she took emergency leave to walk her to school for a few days.

If she thinks someone or something is worhy of trust, she will go to the wall to protect it.

Williams portrays herself as a soldier first and foremost. She says that she has to be better than the best in order to amount to anything. I guess that doesn't include being a lover. In ME1 she acts like she has honor and integrity. In ME2, she proves that she doesn't. She takes the rumors over the man that has saved her life three times. In my book, that don't count for much.

It doesn't.  It makes no sense given what we know about Ash.  Unless Shepard was a stone cold renegade who treated her like dirt in ME1.  Or there's something out there we're missing.

Maybe she did hold true to the alliance and was in lockstep with their reasoning that Shepard was a traitor and that is why she sold Shepard up the river. Bravo for her if she did, but why should I still be enamored of her for doing that? I was the one that she sold up the river.

I don't hate Williams, but I am no longer her best friend for the crap she pulled on Horizon. As far as I am concerned, I don't want her on my ship and if she's in command of the Normandy, then I'm finding another ride at the earliest opportunity. I have nothing against anyone who admires Ashley for her stunt on Horizon, but I certainly am not amongst them.

And if it turns out Ash had good reason to think Shepard was beibg controlled, or turned traitor?  Somehting that somehow trumped what she knew about Shepard from ME1?  I just wish I knew what it was, or if such information exists at all.

But I refuse to become part of some Shakespearean tragedy in the Mass Effect universe.  I want all the facts before deciding things. 

[redbaron76]

Ok people settle down. What we all know is that TIM has sent reports to alliance that Cerberus might be involved with colony's disapiaring. He also sent a report to aliance that shepard is alive and working for cerberus. So if you put these two statements together it implies that shepard is involved in co,ony abductions so aliance sends ash to investigate. It proves to be colectors behind abdutcion but low and behol shepard is alive and working with cerberus. So she recieves a double shock in same moment. She sees the man she loves work for an organization that they fought together against. So she gets her prayers answered and also finds out that he is working for bad guys. So yes I feel that Ashley was justified in calling my shepard or any other shepard a traitro because she is wright in a way. Shepard is AWOL and working for a know terrorist group. She is angry and emotional to extreme. And if you knighoblu find her angry words ofensive my friend you need to get over it and relize that you are acting immature if horizon makes you not trust ashley. The way I see it she could have been under orders by aliance command to say what she said to shepard. So you being angry at her because of it is imature and unjust. Angry words are still words and can not hurt you, if you have strong character.

[whywhywhywhy]

Made Nightwing wrote...
Nothing anyone says is going to change anyones mind.

No amount of wall of text opinions from knightblu and whywhywhywhy are going to alter redbaron's perspective, and vice versa. We're all RPing differently, as we are all individuals.

I'm not trying to alter redbaron's perspective.  I think when you go on forums and interact with other people you have to be a bit opened minded not for others to change your perspective but to understand someone else's.  And I think that's not happening and creates this endless debate.  I consider things from three views Shepards, the VS and my own.  So if we say views were akin to roads when I examine the events of horizon and go down Shepard's road I find speed bumps.  When I go down the VS's road I find huge potholes, large and numerous potholes.

So when the VS supporters and they take the stance of Sheperd needs to apologize and all that I ask them why and all they really come up with is Shepard didn't say the right thing or he didn't contact her.  I examine that and find so many more questions can be raised about the VS's behavoir then Shepard.  Especially when you consider a) He didn't lie to her.  and He didn't have a way to contact her, when he asked about her Anderson stonewalled him.  TIM even said "her file was surprisingly classified."  Do I really want Cerberus taking a closer look at her because I need to tell her I'm alive ?  It just doesn't make a strong case for the VS's behavoir. 

When making a case in defense of Shepard behavoir a lot of points are outright ignored while others ridiculed.  The VS supporter then points to how Ash must be feeling after two years and how justified she is while never considering what two years dead/coma did to Shepard.  And that's the problem I see.

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 30 juillet 2011 - 01:04 .

[Mecha Tengu]

shes a pile of ashes on virmire

bros b4 hoes!

[whywhywhywhy]

Made Nightwing wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

Hence Shepard's new theme song from The Offspring entitled "Self Esteem" posted previously for those who will date Williams regardless.

And while a wall of text my post may be, the reasoning is nevertheless sound

I dunno, some of us like that she took a level in her own self-esteem.

I would also disagree. While the logic may be perfectly sound to you, others may see the character in a different way, rendering your argument invalid to them. Like I said, we are all individuals.

If the logic isn't sound then why aren't you showing how or what makes it invalid ?  If you are stating that people are being more subjective then objective ?  I'd agree that may be the case but the points are built on the basis of basic interpersonal relationships and communication.  So logical they can't be refuted by someone's emotional response.

[whywhywhywhy]

ubermensch007 wrote...

Okay -- I have a few more things to say about that "Hey there" email from Ash.

I still play Mass Effect 2 and I was playing it for a bit yesterday.Shep and Miri were having a very intense moment.She asked Shep to promise her that he won't die.And (my) Shep said, (paraphrasing) "That is not a promise that I can keep."

When I was seeing all this take place before my eyes.I was hit again by how I felt the first time playing ME 2.And how I was almost sure that Commander Shepard was going to die for good in this game.

Now for the sake of argument -- Suppose Shepard did die during the Suicide Mission -- and what all that transpired leading up to his death was discoverd.His encounter with the Virmire Survivor and so forth.For there were surely colonist ton Horizon who overheard Operations Chief Ashley Williams 'biting his head off'. <_< And hearing Shepard ask her to help him defeat 'the greatest threat to spacefaring humanity that they have ever encountered' (As the Illusive Man put it) .And  they also heard her refusal to assist him.Later on.The email she sent him is discovered.People also recall that she was once one of his most trusted and reliable comrades and they were also once intimate.

Well now -- Wouldn't Ashley sort of be reviled by later generations as a traitor and Deliah woman.Who turned her back on the man that she loved.Messed up his head with her emotional tirades and mindgames.And (probably) got him killed!?

Wouldn't Ashley, blame herself (right or wrong) and feel as though she 'SHOULD' have been by Shepard's side? She 'SHOULD' have had his back?

If Shepard died during the Suicide Mission.Wouldn't Ashley Williams have been disgraced to a greater extent than her grandfather ever was?!

No. Kinda sounds like she's gotta mission of her own *coughBatarianOrbitalMirrorcough* and she's wishing you luck.

M.N. that ain't nothing but SPECULATION But even if it's true...

Meh <_<

Wow wonderful new perspective, I agree if shepard died and all of that was made public Ashley would have a problem on her hands.  And the orbital mirror thing even if true to me shows how useless the alliance can be at times dedicate resources to a local threat vs a galaxy wide one.

[whywhywhywhy]

Made Nightwing wrote...
Good assessment, but it is inadvisable to compare mathematics to people and circumstances. Mathematics has an element of certainty to it. People and circumstances do not. For instance, on Horizon, Shepard was right and Ashley was wrong. That cannot be disupted, and I'm not arguing with it.

I think that's a point Shepard supporters felt needed to be made because of all the blame Shepard was receiving for the events at horizon.

Made Nightwing wrote...
But Ashley's perspective can be perceived as being brutally honest, and being worthy of admiration due to her convictions. You don't see it as such, because you believe that in order for Ashley to be right, Shepard must be wrong. You don't need to think someone is right or wrong in order to sympathise/agree/forgive them for it.

For me what seem to be missing from the Ashley supporters was the fact that they that they were Sympathizing with Ash.  Instead they were coming from the perspective of Shepard was wrong/didn't do enough so Ash is in the right.  I think Ashley was right in her anger but wrong with her response.  She didn't seem like a woman who grieved and wanted answers, she basically needed to interrogate him.  Even if it concluded with her still being angry with him.

Made Nightwing wrote...
I perceive the circumstances to be slightly more complicated. Shepard was working with Cerberus, under the precept that he needed to dance with the devil in order to complete his objective. This is fine. But, Ashley is the type of person who would never take that option, and she expresses this, 'I'll never work with Cerberus'. This is also fine, and very in character for Ash. Personally, I'm just glad she didn't get a personality transplant.

I think it's more I'll never co-operate with Cereberus, and it's fine she feels that way.   The way I view it Cerberus was funding Shepard's mission providing him with supplies and info once bringing to his attention the state of affairs with the colonies.  That said I don't think either of them hold any particular love for Cerberus, but Shepard is willing to serve humanity's best interest in fight the collector's and Reapers even if that means a shaky alliance with Cerberus.  Ash is unwilling to even though she knows the Reaper threat is real, the only reason I can think of why Ash wouldn't fight this threat is because of her Career.  She's not willing to risk it, whatever mission she may be on it can't compare unless the objectives align with stopping the reapers, cooperation is best if that's the case.  So it calls into question her Character.

Now having said and established all that let's say Ash reasoning was sound and that she legitimately had something that rivals the reapers to take care of or knew Cerberus was working with the Reapers.  Her stance and judgment of Shepard prevented her from working with Shepard at Horizon.  Then why does she work with him in ME3 ?  His judgement obviously was compromised, he made a serious mistake in his alliance with Cerberus how can you trust him to lead you in and through the Reaper attack ?  How do you know his Association with Cerberus won't have repercussions to alien leaders who otherwise would be Allies ?  It boils down to this for me if Ash was right I see no reason for her to return under Shepard's command.   If Ash was wrong I see no reason for her to return under his command.


The choice of words the devs used at horizon definately were meant to cause a divide to encourage a player into the arms of the new LI.  But now that they've done that how do they fix it ?  By making someone else the bad guy enter scene Cerberus a already questionable organization to begin with yeah let's make them the fall guy.(incoming Shep apology)  Oh Anderson Shepard's former commander and a hero in his own right let's make it his fault.(incoming Ash apology)  I can't see to many others who could be responsible for it other the VS themselves.(well I have a couple theories but I'd rather not say)  Anyway BW will most likely just sweep it under the rug leaving it unresolved which is a much bigger problem.

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 30 juillet 2011 - 06:23 .

[whywhywhywhy]

Baldrick67 wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

Well, if she is that darned loyal to the Alliance then let her take them as a love interest. Loyalty to the person that you say you "loved" should count for something. Hell, maybe it's me. Maybe love, commitment, and honor have no meaning anymore and they are just empty words. But where I come from, they have a very real and very deep meaning. They are not transitory and they are not fluff used to pad greeting cards.

Williams portrays herself as a soldier first and foremost. She says that she has to be better than the best in order to amount to anything. I guess that doesn't include being a lover. In ME1 she acts like she has honor and integrity. In ME2, she proves that she doesn't. She takes the rumors over the man that has saved her life three times. In my book, that don't count for much.

Maybe she did hold true to the alliance and was in lockstep with their reasoning that Shepard was a traitor and that is why she sold Shepard up the river. Bravo for her if she did, but why should I still be enamored of her for doing that? I was the one that she sold up the river.

I don't hate Williams, but I am no longer her best friend for the crap she pulled on Horizon. As far as I am concerned, I don't want her on my ship and if she's in command of the Normandy, then I'm finding another ride at the earliest opportunity. I have nothing against anyone who admires Ashley for her stunt on Horizon, but I certainly am not amongst them.

Did you miss Shepard arriving on Horizon in a CERBERUS ship with CERBERUS crew and CERBERUS equipment ?

Did you not play ME or did you skip all the inhumane things Cerberus did to civillians and alliance soldiers ? How easily you brush the murder of Admiral Kahoku under the rug.

Weight the life of Admiral Kahoku vs those of the colonist of Freedom's Progress, Horizon and etc.  Then you'll find out why He shows up in a Cerberus Ship with a Cerberus crew and Cerberus equipment and Cerberus........etc.

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 30 juillet 2011 - 06:31 .

[redbaron76]

I think that both VS and shepard need to apologise and work things out. Some people are not intrested in working things out so I am trying to find a reason for such anti VS view since I personally feel that it is unjustified.

[rapscallioness]

This 'trial' should be very interesting. I hope it is. But do you really think the VS will testify Against Shepard? They may have to testify, I guess. Be cross examined...idk wats going to happen...and I like that..hehe.

But let's see. How does it look? The VS is one of the few that really knows there is..or was a Reaper threat, but I wonder if they think the threat has indeed been thwarted? It's been 2 years by ME2 since any known Reaper threat. So this trial isn't about the Reapers as much as Sheps involvement w/ Cerberus...and the Arrival stuff.

So the VS may have to get up and state that, yeah, they saw them on Horizon running w/ Cerberus. They think Cerberus was behind the colony attacks. Although, I don't really understand that since Cerberus is supposed to be so humanity 1st. Such a large scale attack on humanity and they immediately think Cerberus? Why not Batarians, or some other race w/ a grudge?

But wow, if VS testifies against Shep, that would make a sad panda. Everybody knows Shep is working w/ Cerberus, but the VS is an eyewitness. Everything else is rumor. But they also know that the Collector's were real. I wonder how that report back to the Citadel went for them. The VS let's them know that yeah the Collectors are real and attacking human colonies...and still doesn't seem like Alliance flew in to help anybody. Not from what I see.

I guess we'll just have to see how the VS reacts to all this. If they know Shep, they should know better than to think Shep just mindlessly committed genocide, but then I thought they knew Shep better by Horizon...so...

OMG, march 2012? really? idk if I'm gonna make it.........

[whywhywhywhy]

redbaron76 wrote...

I think that both VS and shepard need to apologise and work things out. Some people are not intrested in working things out so I am trying to find a reason for such anti VS view since I personally feel that it is unjustified.

What does he need to work out ?  Unless you want a relationship with ash their is no reason to work things out.  She's a horrible Soldier after losing her entire squad (running off and leaving them) she set in motion the events that destroyed the eden prime beacon.  That was the one piece of evidence that could have been useful in uniting the galaxy against the Reapers and stopping Saren.

[Omega Torsk]

Yes, she is. They had a disagreement on Horizon; those happen in relationships. My Infiltrator isn't going to let some heated words separate him from the woman he fell in love with. It's been two years since she last saw him and she spent all of them believing he was dead; this made her withdraw back into her "soldier-mode." Him coming back into her life turned her world upside-down. She didn't know how to act and just went with her impulses, which resulted in the dialogue on Horizon. After she had time to adjust, she sent the e-mail. She apologized for her behavior and hinted at the possibility of her relationship with you not being completely over. And, incidentally, she was right about Cerberus... TIM simply cannot be trusted, no matter how much he seems to be on your side; there is always an angle. And, whether you saved the base or not, he turns on you. So, Shepard had to associate himself with a necessary evil in order to save the colonists; Ashley understood that, but still didn't trust Cerberus. I understood her concern, but the circumstances didn't give me much of a choice.

So yeah, I can't wait to see how Bioware rekindles the romance in ME3. Actually, it's one of the few things I'm looking forward to the most in this game.

[AVPen]

Baldrick67 wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

Well, if she is that darned loyal to the Alliance then let her take them as a love interest. Loyalty to the person that you say you "loved" should count for something. Hell, maybe it's me. Maybe love, commitment, and honor have no meaning anymore and they are just empty words. But where I come from, they have a very real and very deep meaning. They are not transitory and they are not fluff used to pad greeting cards.

Williams portrays herself as a soldier first and foremost. She says that she has to be better than the best in order to amount to anything. I guess that doesn't include being a lover. In ME1 she acts like she has honor and integrity. In ME2, she proves that she doesn't. She takes the rumors over the man that has saved her life three times. In my book, that don't count for much.

Maybe she did hold true to the alliance and was in lockstep with their reasoning that Shepard was a traitor and that is why she sold Shepard up the river. Bravo for her if she did, but why should I still be enamored of her for doing that? I was the one that she sold up the river.

I don't hate Williams, but I am no longer her best friend for the crap she pulled on Horizon. As far as I am concerned, I don't want her on my ship and if she's in command of the Normandy, then I'm finding another ride at the earliest opportunity. I have nothing against anyone who admires Ashley for her stunt on Horizon, but I certainly am not amongst them.

Did you miss Shepard arriving on Horizon in a CERBERUS ship with CERBERUS crew and CERBERUS equipment ?

I'd like to casually point out the fact that she didn't even know or recognize that Shepard was working with Cerberus until he actually said something about it  All she had heard were rumors and speculation at that point, which were created by TIM to get her on Horizon, while the truth about Shepard was also supressed by Anderson and the Alliance.


Hell, you could bring along both Miranda and Jacob, fully decked out in their Cerberus uniforms with Cerberus logos and she still doesn't realize its Cerberus until Shepard talks about it. 

Modifié par AVPen, 30 juillet 2011 - 11:31 .

[Made Nightwing]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

Hence Shepard's new theme song from The Offspring entitled "Self Esteem" posted previously for those who will date Williams regardless.

And while a wall of text my post may be, the reasoning is nevertheless sound

I dunno, some of us like that she took a level in her own self-esteem.

I would also disagree. While the logic may be perfectly sound to you, others may see the character in a different way, rendering your argument invalid to them. Like I said, we are all individuals.

If the logic isn't sound then why aren't you showing how or what makes it invalid ?  If you are stating that people are being more subjective then objective ?  I'd agree that may be the case but the points are built on the basis of basic interpersonal relationships and communication.  So logical they can't be refuted by someone's emotional response.

You want logic? From video game speculation and five minutes worth of conversations? I could be the greatest debater known to mankind and still not be able to build a reasonable argument based on that. I speculate that her emotions were running high, she has a lot of unresolved anger at Cerberus, some survivor's guilt for outliving Shepard, and the frustration of once again being horribly outnumbered and failing her mission. I draw the conclusion that it was an angry conversation that she regrets and that I look forward to talking things out in Mass Effect 3.

You also seem to draw the conclusion that she was angry, mistaken, and regretful. You just seem a little less willing to forgive and forget, but that's just how you play. I think we are both reaching the same conclusion, but reacting to that conclusion on different levels.

[Zubie]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

redbaron76 wrote...

I think that both VS and shepard need to apologise and work things out. Some people are not intrested in working things out so I am trying to find a reason for such anti VS view since I personally feel that it is unjustified.

What does he need to work out ?  Unless you want a relationship with ash their is no reason to work things out.  She's a horrible Soldier after losing her entire squad (running off and leaving them) she set in motion the events that destroyed the eden prime beacon.  That was the one piece of evidence that could have been useful in uniting the galaxy against the Reapers and stopping Saren.

haha ok