1035 réponses à ce sujet

[knightnblu]

rapscallioness wrote...
 
This 'trial' should be very interesting. I hope it is. But do you really think the VS will testify Against Shepard? They may have to testify, I guess. Be cross examined...idk wats going to happen...and I like that..hehe.
 
But let's see. How does it look? The VS is one of the few that really knows there is..or was a Reaper threat, but I wonder if they think the threat has indeed been thwarted? It's been 2 years by ME2 since any known Reaper threat. So this trial isn't about the Reapers as much as Sheps involvement w/ Cerberus...and the Arrival stuff.
 
So the VS may have to get up and state that, yeah, they saw them on Horizon running w/ Cerberus. They think Cerberus was behind the colony attacks. Although, I don't really understand that since Cerberus is supposed to be so humanity 1st. Such a large scale attack on humanity and they immediately think Cerberus? Why not Batarians, or some other race w/ a grudge?
 
But wow, if VS testifies against Shep, that would make a sad panda. Everybody knows Shep is working w/ Cerberus, but the VS is an eyewitness. Everything else is rumor. But they also know that the Collector's were real. I wonder how that report back to the Citadel went for them. The VS let's them know that yeah the Collectors are real and attacking human colonies...and still doesn't seem like Alliance flew in to help anybody. Not from what I see.
 
I guess we'll just have to see how the VS reacts to all this. If they know Shep, they should know better than to think Shep just mindlessly committed genocide, but then I thought they knew Shep better by Horizon...so...
 
OMG, march 2012? really? idk if I'm gonna make it.........

 
I think that you are spot on with the trial. I can't see any other charges being leveled against Shepard except for war crimes committed against the Batarians and treason. Such charges prove that the Alliance had no hand in the destruction of their colony and all they have to do to avoid a war is to hang Shepard out to dry. Both the Council and the Alliance believe that the Reapers are a fantasy and the VS thinks you are a traitor and a terrorist. In the context of war crimes, the Alliance will be looking to prove that Shepard has gone rogue and the VS provides an eyewitness to Shepard's treason. If I were a prosecutor, you're damned right I would call them to the stand to testify against Shepard.
 
Shepard's counsel can cross the VS, but they are going to have an uphill battle to tear down their testimony. I can imagine it going something like this:
 
Pros.: State your name, rank, and current assignment for the court, please.
Williams: Williams, Ashley Marie, Alliance Marine Lieutenant. Council Spectre and Alliance Special Ops.
Pros.: How do you know Commander Shepard?
Williams: I first met Commander Shepard during Saren's attack on Eden Prime and was transferred to the Normandy SR1 after the battle. I served under Commander Shepard until the loss of the Normandy.
Pros.: That was when Commander Shepard disappeared wasn't it?
Williams: Yes Sir.
Pros.: But Commander Shepard didn't disappear did he? I mean, not really. Is that right?
Williams: Sir, I don't think that I...
Pros.: Just answer the question Lieutenant.
Williams: Yes Sir, we had thought that the Commander had been killed in action when the Normandy was destroyed. But there were rumors that he was still alive.
Shepard's Defense Council: Objection your Honor! Hearsay!
Pros.: Your Honor, Shepard's disappearance ties directly with his being AWOL from the Alliance Marines and illustrates the covert nature of his actions. Actions that he intended to hide from the Alliance because he intended to commit treason. Additionally, I will present evidence of Shepard's treason as I continue to question the witness.
Judge: Can you establish a credible foundation for these rumors?
Pros.: Yes your Honor, I can.
Judge: I will allow it.
Pros.: Now Lieutenant, where did these rumors originate?
Williams: Alliance Intel indicated that Commander Shepard may be alive.
Pros.: Was that the extent of the rumors?
Williams: No Sir.
Pros.: Could you please give this Court the full scope of these rumors from Alliance Intel?
Williams: Sir, I don't...
Pros.: Williams you are under oath and I have asked you a direct question. Answer the question or I will request that the Court order you to do so.
Williams: Alliance Intel said that Shepard may be alive and working with Cerberus.
Pros.: The same organization that was responsible for the murder of Admiral Kahoku?
Williams: Yes, Sir.
Pros.: Wasn't Cerberus also experimenting with developing Thorian Creepers, Rachni, and Husks to create a private army as well?
Williams: Yes, Sir.
Pros.: And how do you know this Lieutenant Williams?
Williams: We found Admiral Kahoku's body in a Cerberus facility and we also found the Cerberus experiments on the Rachni, Creepers, and husks in similar facilities. Admiral Kahoku's body was found laying in the midst of Rachni newborn.
Pros.: What is your opinion of Cerberus Lieutenant?
Williams: They are an extremist human supremacist organization and an enemy of the Council and the Alliance.
Pros.: Are they terrorists?
Williams: Yes, Sir.
Pros.: Why are they terrorists?
Williams: They have attacked Alliance military forces, murdered colonists, stolen Alliance classified technology, and murdered an Admiral of the Alliance Fleet. They are also an avowed enemy of the Citadel Council.
Pros.: So would you say that anyone who would work for Cerberus would also be a terrorist?
Williams: Sir, I'm not sure that I'm the best person to answer that question. Perhaps Alliance Intel would...
Pros.: I understand that you are uncomfortable answering these questions, but you are an Alliance officer and under oath to answer truthfully. I expect you to do your duty.
Williams: Yes, Sir.
Pros.: Allow me to reiterate, would you say that anyone who would knowingly work for Cerberus would indeed be a terrorist?
Williams: Yes, Sir.
Pros.: You said that Commander Shepard went missing and was presumed dead. Is that correct?
Williams: Yes, Sir.
Pros.: But there were rumors circulating within the Alliance that maybe he wasn't dead and was even possibly working with Cerberus. Is that right?
Williams: Yes, Sir.
Pros.: How did you become involved with these rumors?
Williams: I was assigned to investigate possible Cerberus involvement in the disappearance of citizens in our outlying colonies.
Pros.: Was this a covert or overt assignment?
Williams: It was a covert assignment using the Alliance's outreach program as a cover. I went to Horizon because Alliance Intel indicated that it would likely be the next colony attacked and that Cerberus had an advance team prepping it.
Pros.: Was Horizon attacked?
Williams: Yes, Sir.
Pros.: Did you see Commander Shepard on Horizon?
Williams: Yes, Sir.
Pros.: Who was Commander Shepard working for when you met with him?
Williams: Commander Shepard advised me that he was working with Cerberus.
Pros.: The known terrorist organization?
Williams: Yes, Sir.
Pros.: And he admitted to you freely that he was working with Cerberus?
Williams: Yes, Sir.
Pros.: Were you close to Commander Shepard?
Williams: He was my CO, Sir.
Pros.: Yes, you testified to that already. What I want to know Lieutenant, is have you ever been intimate with Commander Shepard?
Williams: ....
Pros.: Lieutenant Williams?
Williams: Yes, Sir.
Pros.: So you were close to him?
Williams: I loved him.
Pros.: And what were your first thoughts about his admission that he was working for Cerberus?
Williams: That he was a traitor.
Pros.: I see. Did you mention this to him or otherwise signal your disapproval of his actions?
Williams: Yes, Sir. I did.
Pros.: What did you say?
Williams: That he had betrayed the Alliance, Anderson, and me.
Pros.: And then you departed?
Williams: Yes, Sir.
Pros.: I have nothing further your Honor, but I reserve the right of recall for rebuttal.
 
 
Yep, that is going to be one sad little panda. ME3 is going to be a real barn burner if they do the trial.

[KingNothing125]

props for writing all that out.

[whywhywhywhy]

Made Nightwing wrote...

whywhywhywhy wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

Hence Shepard's new theme song from The Offspring entitled "Self Esteem" posted previously for those who will date Williams regardless.

And while a wall of text my post may be, the reasoning is nevertheless sound

I dunno, some of us like that she took a level in her own self-esteem.

I would also disagree. While the logic may be perfectly sound to you, others may see the character in a different way, rendering your argument invalid to them. Like I said, we are all individuals.

If the logic isn't sound then why aren't you showing how or what makes it invalid ?  If you are stating that people are being more subjective then objective ?  I'd agree that may be the case but the points are built on the basis of basic interpersonal relationships and communication.  So logical they can't be refuted by someone's emotional response.

You want logic? From video game speculation and five minutes worth of conversations? I could be the greatest debater known to mankind and still not be able to build a reasonable argument based on that. I speculate that her emotions were running high, she has a lot of unresolved anger at Cerberus, some survivor's guilt for outliving Shepard, and the frustration of once again being horribly outnumbered and failing her mission. I draw the conclusion that it was an angry conversation that she regrets and that I look forward to talking things out in Mass Effect 3.

You also seem to draw the conclusion that she was angry, mistaken, and regretful. You just seem a little less willing to forgive and forget, but that's just how you play. I think we are both reaching the same conclusion, but reacting to that conclusion on different levels.

I asked that if you disagreed with knightblu's post that you address the logic within it.  Instead of doing so you quoted my request and respond to it.  Highly illogical.


@knightblu
Can't believe the time and care you took to type all that out.  Thanks for the effort. great post 

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 01 août 2011 - 07:18 .

[Iakus]

knightnblu wrote...

 Yep, that is going to be one sad little panda. ME3 is going to be a real barn burner if they do the trial.

Heh, and my Shep won't blame her one bit for saying those things, becsue they're all true, from a certain perspective

Hmm, I think I'll take a stab at the defense:

Def:  Lieutenant Williams, you testified earlier that you were present on Horizon during the attack?
Williams:  I was
Def: What was your condition at the time?
Williams: I was stung by some kind of insect-shaped probe.  It encased me in a stasis field.  I was aware, but unable to act for some time
Def:  So you could see and hear what was happening around you?
Williams:  Yes, I could
Def: You said you saw Commander Shepard on Horizon.  What was he doing?
Williams:  Sir?
Def:  What actions, if any, did you see Commander Shepard performing?
WIlliams:  He was, well, he was fighting.
Def:  The colonists?
Williams:  No, the Collectors, or that's what he called them.  The aliens that were abducting the colonists.  He was shooting at them, driving them back to their ship.
Def:  Was he fighting anyone else besides these "Collectors"
Williams:  They had husks with them.  And other things that looked like husks, but...different somehow.
Def:  Husks?  Like the creatures your reportes indicated were encountered on Eden Prime several years ago?  The ones the geth used? 
Williams:  They resembled them, yes.
Def:  But they were fighting alongside the Collectors.  Not Cerberus?
Williams:  No, they were definitely attacking Commander Shepard.  One of the Collectors, one that was glowing, kept telling them to "Preserve Shepard's body if possible"
Def:  This glowing alien was instructing the others to take Shepard specificaly?
Williams:  I don't know if it was always the same one.  There might have been several.  Or one being directed by someone else.  It kept saying "Assuming direct control"
Pros:  Your honor, is this going anywhere?
Judge:  Move it along please:
Def:  Yes, you're honor.  So, Lieutenant, you're testimony is that Commander Shepard was, in fact on Horizon, but was actually fighting the beings that were kidnapping the colonists?
Williams:  That's...I suppose that's what appeared to be happening, yes.
Def:  And it was afterwards that you called Shepard a traitor
Williams:  I, I did say he betrayed the Alliance....
Def:  Was anyone else present at the time?
Williams:  Delann was, one of the colonists.  And Doctor Solus.
Def:  And who is Doctor Solus?
Williams:  Reports say he's a former member of the salarian STG, and creator of the technology the Commander used to avoid being stung by the probes like I was.
Def:  I see.  Anyone else?
Williams:  There was...Garrus...
Def:  Garrus Vakarian, you mean?
Williams:  Yes
Def:  Mister Vakarian is a turian, is he not?
Williams;  He is, but he'd be the first to say he's not a very good one
::brief laughter in the court::
Def:  Is Cerberus in the habit of recruiting turians or salarians into their ranks, Lieutenant Williams?
WIlliams:  Given Cerberus is dedicated to human advancement at any cost, I do not believe so, sir
Def:  Earlier you testified to things you had seen at Cerberus bases in the past.  Was Commander Shepard aware of these as well?
Williams:  He was the one who led the attacks on the Cerberus bases.
Def:  So that's a "yes"?
Williams:  It is
Def  Did Commander Shepard ever express sympathy for Cerberus or their cause?
Williams:  Not in my presence, no.  Just the opposite in fact.  Especially when he heard that they were responsible for the massacre on Akuze.
Def: And two years later you find him with Cerberus on Horizon.  That must have been quite a shock.
Williams:  Is that a question?
Def: On Horizon, did Shepard say he was a part of Cerberus?
Williams:  He said he was working with them.
Def:  Yes, you testified that he worked with Cerberus to drive away the aliens attacking the colony
Pros: Objection!
Def:  Did he say he was working for Cerberus?
Pros:  Objection!   Your Honor!
Judge:  Order! 
Def:  Did Commander Shepard say he was a member of Cerberus?
::courtroom starts buzzing::
Judge:  I said Order!
Def: DID COMMANDER SHEPARD SAY HE WAS A MEMBER OF CERBERUS?
Judge:  ::gavel pounding::  Order!  Order!  Order or I'll clear the courtroom!
Williams:  NO!  No, Shepard never said he was with Cerberus.  He said he was working with them to save the colonies.  But he had not joined Cerberus.  He told me he didn't answer to them!  And...and I didn't believe him... ::hangs head::
Def:  And now?
Williams:  Now, now I wish I had stayed to hear what he had to say.  
Shepard (softly, from defendant's chair):  And I wish I had said more when I could.

Def:  Thank you Lieutenant Williams, no more questions.  Your Honor, I'd like to present Commander's Shepard's latest medical records into evidence, I think the results will settle this whole "AWOL" business once and for all...

Modifié par iakus, 01 août 2011 - 10:46 .

[Made Nightwing]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

whywhywhywhy wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

Hence Shepard's new theme song from The Offspring entitled "Self Esteem" posted previously for those who will date Williams regardless.

And while a wall of text my post may be, the reasoning is nevertheless sound

I dunno, some of us like that she took a level in her own self-esteem.

I would also disagree. While the logic may be perfectly sound to you, others may see the character in a different way, rendering your argument invalid to them. Like I said, we are all individuals.

If the logic isn't sound then why aren't you showing how or what makes it invalid ?  If you are stating that people are being more subjective then objective ?  I'd agree that may be the case but the points are built on the basis of basic interpersonal relationships and communication.  So logical they can't be refuted by someone's emotional response.

You want logic? From video game speculation and five minutes worth of conversations? I could be the greatest debater known to mankind and still not be able to build a reasonable argument based on that. I speculate that her emotions were running high, she has a lot of unresolved anger at Cerberus, some survivor's guilt for outliving Shepard, and the frustration of once again being horribly outnumbered and failing her mission. I draw the conclusion that it was an angry conversation that she regrets and that I look forward to talking things out in Mass Effect 3.

You also seem to draw the conclusion that she was angry, mistaken, and regretful. You just seem a little less willing to forgive and forget, but that's just how you play. I think we are both reaching the same conclusion, but reacting to that conclusion on different levels.

I asked that if you disagreed with knightblu's post that you address the logic within it.  Instead of doing so you quoted my request and respond to it.  Highly illogical.


@knightblu
Can't believe the time and care you took to type all that out.  Thanks for the effort. great post 

And...why would I waste my time doing so? Would I have any chance of convincing him that there is a hole in his logic? Perhaps change his mind about Ash? I could form a complex argument, present it well, and then post it. If he could see the point in my argument, he would simply post something saying that he can see my point, but still thinks his argument is the accurate one. If I missed a critical point, forget something or made a questionable leap of logic, then I would get trolled.

So, I will simply say that I disagree with the logic. I don't see any reason to waste a good ten minutes writing up the reasons for it.

[whywhywhywhy]

@iakus
I applaud anyone that would take the time type up such a elaborate response to a complex issue. I imagine it could go both ways. Like you and knightblu worked out. But I would imagine the Defense attorney would have to probe Ash a bit deeper to find out why she didn't trust him or the prosecution would exploit it. Other then that it should go something like what both of you have surmised.

[Iakus]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

@iakus
I applaud anyone that would take the time type up such a elaborate response to a complex issue. I imagine it could go both ways. Like you and knightblu worked out. But I would imagine the Defense attorney would have to probe Ash a bit deeper to find out why she didn't trust him or the prosecution would exploit it. Other then that it should go something like what both of you have surmised.

Given I don't understand why she didn't trust Shepard myself.  I don't think I'm up to the task..  So I went the "reasonable doubt" route 

[whywhywhywhy]

iakus wrote...

whywhywhywhy wrote...

@iakus
I applaud anyone that would take the time type up such a elaborate response to a complex issue. I imagine it could go both ways. Like you and knightblu worked out. But I would imagine the Defense attorney would have to probe Ash a bit deeper to find out why she didn't trust him or the prosecution would exploit it. Other then that it should go something like what both of you have surmised.

Given I don't understand why she didn't trust Shepard myself.  I don't think I'm up to the task..  So I went the "reasonable doubt" route 

good foresight.    The defense could ask and be interrupted by an outburst of offensive slurs directed at Ash and the Bailiff throws the guy out.  Ah just figured out Conrad Vernors next appearance.

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 01 août 2011 - 11:41 .

[redbaron76]

First of all Ashleys middle name is madeline not marie. And it is a good story except, prosecution can not call it's own witness back for rebuttal only defence can do that or vice versa if it was defense withness. And the case for the fense is good. But to state it is pure speculation since we all know that the trial will be disrupted. And I am more than likely to believe that Ashley would be summoned as a defense witness rather that prosecution due to her bias for shepard due to their romantic involvement.

[whywhywhywhy]

redbaron76 wrote...

First of all Ashleys middle name is madeline not marie. And it is a good story except, prosecution can not call it's own witness back for rebuttal only defence can do that or vice versa if it was defense withness. And the case for the fense is good. But to state it is pure speculation since we all know that the trial will be disrupted. And I am more than likely to believe that Ashley would be summoned as a defense witness rather that prosecution due to her bias for shepard due to their romantic involvement.

I think military court has different rules then civilian courts and we cannot be sure that they wouldn't have arrived at a new paradigm that would allow the proceeding to follow as stated.

[redbaron76]

Yes they have different rules, but As i work for a prosecutors office I can tell you as a fact that no prosecutor would ever allow Ashley as a witness fr prosecution. One fact is that her mission is classified so whe would not be able to testify do that in civilian or millitary court. And if she was not able to disclose, accused could get of on the fact of government i nterfeance which any judge in millitary or civilian court will throw out a case if there is any legal difficulties. Second fact is that Ashley was intimate with shepard making her unreliable witness to prosecution simply due to fact that anything she says might be tainted. And if the court went as knightoblu wrote, ashley would have perjerude herself at the stating of her name marie since we all know that it is madeline.

[redbaron76]

The charges against shepard would be Treason, being AWOL, working with Know terrorist organization, Concealing his wherebautes for two years, possible faking death to avoid taxes and mass murder. There would be no War crimes charges laid since there is no current war between Sytems Alliance and Batarian Hegemony. LAst time I read War crimes can be only charged during active War.

[whywhywhywhy]

redbaron76 wrote...

The charges against shepard would be Treason, being AWOL, working with Know terrorist organization, Concealing his wherebautes for two years, possible faking death to avoid taxes and mass murder. There would be no War crimes charges laid since there is no current war between Sytems Alliance and Batarian Hegemony. LAst time I read War crimes can be only charged during active War.

Yet Hackett came to him about the events of arrival.  Told him he'd have to answer for the 300k and nothing else.

redbaron76 wrote...

Yes they have different rules, but As i work for a prosecutors office I can tell you as a fact that no prosecutor would ever allow Ashley as a witness fr prosecution. One fact is that her mission is classified so whe would not be able to testify do that in civilian or millitary court. And if she was not able to disclose, accused could get of on the fact of government i nterfeance which any judge in millitary or civilian court will throw out a case if there is any legal difficulties. Second fact is that Ashley was intimate with shepard making her unreliable witness to prosecution
simply due to fact that anything she says might be tainted. And if the court went as knightoblu wrote, ashley would have perjerude herself at the stating of her name marie since we all know that it is madeline.

again this has nothing to do with a civilian court it's a military court and in the future the rules could have changed which would further alienate you from the process your so familiar with now..

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 02 août 2011 - 05:08 .

[Made Nightwing]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

redbaron76 wrote...

The charges against shepard would be Treason, being AWOL, working with Know terrorist organization, Concealing his wherebautes for two years, possible faking death to avoid taxes and mass murder. There would be no War crimes charges laid since there is no current war between Sytems Alliance and Batarian Hegemony. LAst time I read War crimes can be only charged during active War.

Yet Hackett came to him about the events of arrival.  Told him he'd have to answer for the 300k and nothing else.

redbaron76 wrote...

Yes they have different rules, but As i work for a prosecutors office I can tell you as a fact that no prosecutor would ever allow Ashley as a witness fr prosecution. One fact is that her mission is classified so whe would not be able to testify do that in civilian or millitary court. And if she was not able to disclose, accused could get of on the fact of government i nterfeance which any judge in millitary or civilian court will throw out a case if there is any legal difficulties. Second fact is that Ashley was intimate with shepard making her unreliable witness to prosecution
simply due to fact that anything she says might be tainted. And if the court went as knightoblu wrote, ashley would have perjerude herself at the stating of her name marie since we all know that it is madeline.

again this has nothing to do with a civilian court it's a military court and in the future the rules could have changed which would further alienate you from the process your so familiar with now..

Dude, in the future or the past, there is no way an active duty soldier can under any circumstances discuss the details of a classified mission in front of a court. Heavily censored written statements can be admitted, but these are practically useless.

And again, in the past or the future, an eyewitness whose testimony might be affected by emotional attatchment  *coughFormerLovercough* could be admitted as a credible witness. It's called common sense in law, and it drove my brother crazy during pracs at law school where he had to build a practice case based on the testimony of the "victim's" ex-wife.

[Made Nightwing]

jreezy wrote...

Every time someone post something about Shepard faking his death I cringe. Anyway, something Anderson said on the Citadel about Ashley looking for evidence of the Reapers after Horizon made me lighten up on my criticisms of her.

And yet it's a valid point. From the VS's perspective, Shepard could have faked his death. Much more probable than coming back to life.

[RocketManSR2]

I finally listened to Ash after Horizon. The last time I did, I was pretty pissed off from the Praetorian fight. I did not take it well, to say the least. I did several other playthroughs, all Liara. I really think she wanted to go with Shepard. She was sad to see him go. She did care enough to email you later. Now, with that said, I wouldn't hold it against her if the Alliance forced her to testify. However, if she started spewing lies on the stand because she was forced, or because she was promised to have her family name restored, that would be the end of it right there.

[Made Nightwing]

jreezy wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Every time someone post something about Shepard faking his death I cringe. Anyway, something Anderson said on the Citadel about Ashley looking for evidence of the Reapers after Horizon made me lighten up on my criticisms of her.

And yet it's a valid point. From the VS's perspective, Shepard could have faked his death. Much more probable than coming back to life.

Yeah you're right. If Kaidan/Ashley did really want the truth about what happened to Shepard all they had to do was talk to Joker though.

I think everyone is still pissed off at Joker for getting Shepard killed.

[whywhywhywhy]

Made Nightwing wrote...

whywhywhywhy wrote...

redbaron76 wrote...

The charges against shepard would be Treason, being AWOL, working with Know terrorist organization, Concealing his wherebautes for two years, possible faking death to avoid taxes and mass murder. There would be no War crimes charges laid since there is no current war between Sytems Alliance and Batarian Hegemony. LAst time I read War crimes can be only charged during active War.

Yet Hackett came to him about the events of arrival.  Told him he'd have to answer for the 300k and nothing else.

redbaron76 wrote...

Yes they have different rules, but As i work for a prosecutors office I can tell you as a fact that no prosecutor would ever allow Ashley as a witness fr prosecution. One fact is that her mission is classified so whe would not be able to testify do that in civilian or millitary court. And if she was not able to disclose, accused could get of on the fact of government i nterfeance which any judge in millitary or civilian court will throw out a case if there is any legal difficulties. Second fact is that Ashley was intimate with shepard making her unreliable witness to prosecution
simply due to fact that anything she says might be tainted. And if the court went as knightoblu wrote, ashley would have perjerude herself at the stating of her name marie since we all know that it is madeline.

again this has nothing to do with a civilian court it's a military court and in the future the rules could have changed which would further alienate you from the process your so familiar with now..

Dude, in the future or the past, there is no way an active duty soldier can under any circumstances discuss the details of a classified mission in front of a court. Heavily censored written statements can be admitted, but these are practically useless.

And again, in the past or the future, an eyewitness whose testimony might be affected by emotional attatchment  *coughFormerLovercough* could be admitted as a credible witness. It's called common sense in law, and it drove my brother crazy during pracs at law school where he had to build a practice case based on the testimony of the "victim's" ex-wife.

sigh.
ok, let's go with that it's not true in a military court but let's go with it.

Pros:Commander Shepard where you in the The Bahak system located in the Viper Nebula ?
Commander Shepard: I'm Sorry that's classfied.
Pros:Commander Shepard where you involved with the events that let to the destruction of a relay and killed 300k Batarians ?
Commander Shepard:  I cannot comment on classified missions that I may or may not have been apart of.
Pros:Commander! Did you do it ?  Did you kill those Batarians!
Commander Shepard: I'm Sorry that's classfied. Are we done here ?

I'm not feeling up to typing up an extensive thing this gets the jist of it across.

[knightnblu]

redbaron76 - Ok, so instead of war crimes we'll just go with multiple counts of terrorism, 3 counts of treason, AWOL, destruction of military property, 20 counts of premeditated murder, conspiracy, conduct unbecoming, continuing criminal enterprise, and fraud. As Shepard is not dead, he conspired to destroy the Normandy SR1 in order to fake his own death because he had to sell out his ship's location to the attacking vessel in order to destroy it. (Treason count 1) As such, he scuttled the ship resulting in the deaths of 20 crewmen under his direct command, hence the premeditated murder counts. Because he didn't act alone and the attack required some degree of planning, now we have the conspiracy charge. Terrorism fits better for the mass murder of 304K+ Batarians and Shepard has already admitted to working with Cerberus which is a known terrorist organization and which is suspected of feeding colonists to the Collectors by the tens of thousands (treason count 2). Shepard's alleged crimes produce the conduct unbecoming charge. Faking his own death results in the fraud charge secondary to the payout of life insurance benefits to his beneficiaries. Finally, we arrive at dereliction of duty (Spectre and Captain of the Normandy SR1) and the betrayal of the Citadel Council (treason count 3). With that line up, Shepard isn't looking at spending decades behind bars, he will be on trial for his life.
 
The Council will cut him loose so quick it will make his head spin, clearing the way for his trial and execution on conviction because he is no longer a Spectre. Who's the best witness to detail the high points of Shepard's various and sundry crimes? Why, it's Alliance Lieutenant Ashley Madeline Williams (It was late, I wasn't sure, so I took a guess, cut me some slack). Any prosecutor worth his salt would call her to the stand and treat her as a hostile witness in order to prove his case. The fact that she slept with Shepard enhances the value of her testimony because it is evident that she does not wish to give inculpatory statements against him. The prosecutor has leverage because if she doesn't give accurate testimony, she can be charged with perjury, demoted, and dishonorably discharged from the Alliance Marines adding yet another stain upon the Williams name. How much you want to bet she will never do that, even for Shepard? She sure as hell didn't stand by him on Horizon, why would she in a military tribunal with her career and reputation on the line? But I do not see her lying about Shepard either because she doesn't have to. The truth is damning enough when looked at from a certain point of view.
 
As far as the trial is concerned, all you really need is a military tribunal with all of the personnel involved having the appropriate clearances for classified intel. The details and testimony are secret and the conviction is final. This was done at Nuremburg and similar to what was proposed for Gitmo. I wouldn't be surprised if Shepard spent the six months to a year between ME2 and ME3 on ice in a military prison waiting for the tribunal to begin, which is yet another eerie coincidence with Williams' grandfather. Sometimes I think that BioWare is intentionally returning to that meme, substituting Shepard for General Williams.
 
If I were Shepard, I'd be writing out my will because there is no way that I can ever prove my innocence because all I have is my word. The Council and the Alliance no longer trusts me, Ashley has sold me down the river, all the evidence from Cerberus is tainted because of the source and that's providing that I can even get my hands on any of it in the first place, there are a number of potential witnesses to my act of terror who escaped from the Arrival base and who are indoctrinated, but are nevertheless Alliance deep cover operatives whose word will trump mine, and I am running around on a Cerberus copy of the Normandy SR1 in a Cerberus uniform with a Cerberus crew in a galaxy that has been heavily tainted by TIM's rumors. Good times. My only hope is that the Reapers invade Earth thereby saving my hind end from being barbequed in molasses by the Alliance. But what are the odds of that?
 
Hmmm.....what's that up in the sky? Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle! It's the Reapers! Sometimes, you do get lucky. Think I'll go buy a lottery ticket.

[ArcticMan94]

No.

The statement implies I was the dominant partner.

[whywhywhywhy]

ArcticMan94 wrote...

No.

The statement implies I was the dominant partner.

huh

[Iakus]

knightnblu wrote...

(Treason count 1) As such, he scuttled the ship resulting in the deaths of 20 crewmen under his direct command, hence the premeditated murder counts. Because he didn't act alone and the attack required some degree of planning, now we have the conspiracy charge

Not likely to be proven, and Ash certainly can't help the prosecution there save to confirm Shep was on the SR1 and again on Horizon.  Shep woul dmost likely use the "I really was dead" defense which will require investigation into the Lazarus Project.  The strength of the defense will largely depend on what kind of information can be gleaned from medical scans and investigating SHep's cybernetics, plus any records of teh Lazarus PRoject on the SR2, possibly including notes from Mordin, CHakwas, or Miranda.  Either way, Ash can't help with that, for or against.

What Ash could probably do for the defense is provide any data the GARDIAN tower did of the Collector Ship.  It could potentially confirm that it was indeed the same ship that attacked the Normandy.  Given Shep was atually fighting the Collectors and drove them off, it would be hard to show SHep was responsible for the colony disappearances.  IT in fact establishes SHep and the COllectors as enemies; Shep was a target.

Terrorism fits better for the mass murder of 304K+ Batarians and Shepard has already admitted to working with Cerberus which is a known terrorist organization and which is suspected of feeding colonists to the Collectors by the tens of thousands (treason count 2).

The batarian charge will be a real hurdle to beat, but Ash had zero to do with it.  She's unlikely to testify save perhaps as a character witness.

Killing colonists?  Horizon pretty definitvely shows Shep and Cerberus were not responsble, barring a truly elaborate setup.  Ash and other paralyzed colonists will be able to personally testify to that.  Not outside the realm of possibility, but pretty fantastic.

In addition, Shepard is not a member of Cerberus, but was allied with them temporarilly.  If Shepard becomes a Spectre again, he is also working with them with the tacit permission of the Council.

Shepard's alleged crimes produce the conduct unbecoming charge. Faking his own death results in the fraud charge secondary to the payout of life insurance benefits to his beneficiaries. Finally, we arrive at dereliction of duty (Spectre and Captain of the Normandy SR1) and the betrayal of the Citadel Council (treason count 3). With that line up, Shepard isn't looking at spending decades behind bars, he will be on trial for his life.

"I was dead"  See above
 

The Council will cut him loose so quick it will make his head spin, clearing the way for his trial and execution on conviction because he is no longer a Spectre. Who's the best witness to detail the high points of Shepard's various and sundry crimes? Why, it's Alliance Lieutenant Ashley Madeline Williams (It was late, I wasn't sure, so I took a guess, cut me some slack). Any prosecutor worth his salt would call her to the stand and treat her as a hostile witness in order to prove his case. The fact that she slept with Shepard enhances the value of her testimony because it is evident that she does not wish to give inculpatory statements against him. The prosecutor has leverage because if she doesn't give accurate testimony, she can be charged with perjury, demoted, and dishonorably discharged from the Alliance Marines adding yet another stain upon the Williams name. How much you want to bet she will never do that, even for Shepard? She sure as hell didn't stand by him on Horizon, why would she in a military tribunal with her career and reputation on the line? But I do not see her lying about Shepard either because she doesn't have to. The truth is damning enough when looked at from a certain point of view.

1) If Anderson is on the Council, he won't stand for this treatment of Shepard.
2)  Ash would only be able to testify to Shepard's actions during ME1 and Horizon.  Plus maybe the rumors about Shep working with Cerberus.  As posted yesterday, her testimony of Horizon could go either way, depending on the questions asked
3) Many Shepards did not romance Ash, and few likely are aware if he did.  If anything the fact that Shepard saved her on Virmire would be more likely to have people queston her objectivity
 

If I were Shepard, I'd be writing out my will because there is no way that I can ever prove my innocence because all I have is my word. The Council and the Alliance no longer trusts me, Ashley has sold me down the river, all the evidence from Cerberus is tainted because of the source and that's providing that I can even get my hands on any of it in the first place, there are a number of potential witnesses to my act of terror who escaped from the Arrival base and who are indoctrinated, but are nevertheless Alliance deep cover operatives whose word will trump mine, and I am running around on a Cerberus copy of the Normandy SR1 in a Cerberus uniform with a Cerberus crew in a galaxy that has been heavily tainted by TIM's rumors. Good times. My only hope is that the Reapers invade Earth thereby saving my hind end from being barbequed in molasses by the Alliance. But what are the odds of that?

Ash is not likely to be the star witness of the defense of prosecution.  How the trial goes is going to depend on a great many things.  Including Ashley

Modifié par iakus, 02 août 2011 - 08:46 .

[Made Nightwing]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

ok, let's go with that it's not true in a military court but let's go with it.

Pros:Commander Shepard where you in the The Bahak system located in the Viper Nebula ?
Commander Shepard: I'm Sorry that's classfied.
Pros:Commander Shepard where you involved with the events that let to the destruction of a relay and killed 300k Batarians ?
Commander Shepard:  I cannot comment on classified missions that I may or may not have been apart of.
Pros:Commander! Did you do it ?  Did you kill those Batarians!
Commander Shepard: I'm Sorry that's classfied. Are we done here ?

I'm not feeling up to typing up an extensive thing this gets the jist of it across.

The Uniform Code of Military Justice (or variations of it), is practically identical to the civillian. Likewise, courtroom procedures are almost identical.

What you wrote is exactly what would happen. Except that Shepard was technically not part of the Alliance, but working as an outside contractor. Hackett would get into a ****load of trouble for authorising the mission, but he only ordered a rescue mission, so he'd probably get off with a slap on the wrist.

I was referring to Ash not being able to testify about Horizon, not Shepard's testimony about Bahak.

Modifié par Made Nightwing, 02 août 2011 - 09:01 .