1035 réponses à ce sujet

[TheShadowWolf911]

i want out of the relationship, on my 'Perfect Paragon Run' in Mass Effect i accidently romanced her, and considering what she said (insulting me and not even bothering to listen) on the planet with the lasers, and the bug men, and the statue people, and the, oh you know im talking about.

what i mean is, i don't want her to be, i didn't even mean to romance her.

[redbaron76]

@ Laecraft

You are wron buddy. SHepard is still definatly part of alliance millitrary even after he became spectre. And seems to me that you are pro cereberus. And Cereberus is a terrorist organisation. When orga nization abducts people , sets up alliance soldiers to be masacred and does evil experiments on children it is a terrorist organiation, sou cerberus lover quit trying to defend terrorists. And since working with terrorist organization is still a treason. And it was not cerberus who recovered his body it was blue suns and then Liara stole his body from blue suns and gave it to cerberus. And if you believe the drivel that you stated than my friend your are a fool. If you read the email that vs sent to you, they apologize for what they said on horizon, they also say thet they do not know what is the truth any more and whom to believe. They also state that shepard is out there doing something that needs to be done. ANd not to lose eshepard a second time. SO read email slowly and see how your point is stupid. Alliance could do noting in the terminus systems since they do not have control of colonies that are defacto nations in terminus systems.

[redbaron76]

Not any governement can protect every colony. If they are not member of Alliance , alliance has no obligation to defend them. ANd you are an idiot if you believe that. Those colonist left alliance because they did not wNT TO FOLLOW The laws and rules. And a nation can not commit a treason. So get over your immaturity and give me the facts not drivel that support your point of view, all you have given me is irrelevant information.

[redbaron76]

Now to ask a question for all players that were offended by Horizon incident, what would you expect of VS to make things better. Since I was not offended, i expect a small conversatin to clean up any misinformationts both mY shepard and Ashley have in regards to My shepard activities i n ME 2.

[GoG ToXiC]

ehh, no.

[Iakus]

redbaron76 wrote...

Now to ask a question for all players that were offended by Horizon incident, what would you expect of VS to make things better. Since I was not offended, i expect a small conversatin to clean up any misinformationts both mY shepard and Ashley have in regards to My shepard activities i n ME 2.

Several posibilities:

1) Revealed that Ash  was under orders from the Alliance not to make contact with Shepard under any circumstances.  She deliberartely picked the fight to get away.

2) More details on what the rumors were that TIM was spreading.  Given her reaction, I expect something on par with "eats small children to maintain his vitality"

3) Ash was threatened by Cerberus.  Her family or Shepard would be harmed if she interferred.  Related to the first one

4) Ash reveals that she doubted Shepard's identity.  She thought she was humoring a clone, an imposter, or maybe a mind controlled Shepard (via chip, indoctrination, or whatever) it wasn't until later that she realized that this was the real Shepard.

Modifié par iakus, 14 août 2011 - 12:33 .

[redbaron76]

@ Iakus

Now got to give you points for that. Nice selection.

[Iakus]

redbaron76 wrote...

@ Iakus

Now got to give you points for that. Nice selection.

Thank you.  It's like I said many times:

I have no problem with her not joining Shepard
I have no problem with her not approving of working with Cerberus
I do have a problem with her thinking Shepard would join with Cerberus willingly, given my (very much paragon) Shepard's anti-Cerberus activities in the first game.

 To my mind, such bizzare behavior on her part must incorporate some other information Shepard is not privy to.  And really really bad writing/executon of the scene.  I cling to the probably vain hope that all will be made clear in ME3.  But I will not let one terrible scene ruin the best, most complex character in thr ME universe for me, even if it goes a long way towards wrecking ME2 for me.

Modifié par iakus, 14 août 2011 - 12:39 .

[knightnblu]

laecraft  said - "Just like the Council, who was supposed to uphold the galactic stability and protect the galaxy, but failed utterly at their task, because they failed to recognize the Reaper threat. They should be court-martial for incompetence and replaced, but there's no one who would put the Council to trial."
 
Amen. The Council and Alliance had two and a half years to prepare for the arrival of the Reapers. Their failure to do so will cause the deaths and suffering of billions initially and trillions very soon afterward. There's going to be enough blood that even Jack is going to be sick of it. Why? Because nobody wanted to believe that there was something out there that wanted them all dead, leaving Shepard to play the Lone Ranger against an impossible threat. The fact that he can only buy more time with his actions is amazing and one hell of a triumph in view of the threat that he is up against.
 
It is not impossible to take on and defeat an enemy force without the support of your government, but it is damned hard to do. Scipio Africanus did so and he not only took on a foreign power and defeated it, he took on one of history's greatest Captains, Hannibal, and defeated him as well with a disgraced and broken legion. That is the model that I have been using to fight the Reapers and their minions ever since it became clear that the Council and Alliance would never support me. In fact, I thought that I would be fighting the Reapers alone with the allies I secured in ME2. Apparently, BioWare thinks otherwise according to press releases re: ME3.
 
With regards to ME3, I only have three requests of BioWare, let me punch the Turian Councilor in the nose for his stupidity, let me feed TIM to a wood chipper or arrange some other equally grisly and gruesome death for him that Shepard will be directly responsible for, and fix the trust that they so casually broke between myself and Williams. If they could do that, then everything else is gravy.
 
redbaron76 said - "Not any governement can protect every colony. If they are not member of Alliance , alliance has no obligation to defend them."
 
It is precisely that reason that the individual must have the ability and capability of self defense. In the U.S., the Courts have ruled that the government has absolutely no responsibility whatsoever to defend any individual. Just the public at large.
 
"Now to ask a question for all players that were offended by Horizon incident, what would you expect of VS to make things better. Since I was not offended, i expect a small conversatin to clean up any misinformationts both mY shepard and Ashley have in regards to My shepard activities i n ME 2."
 
First, I want a real apology. Not some half-assed, tepid, email missive that acts like nothing ever happened. I'm not raw because Ashley didn't join up with me, I'm not angry because Ashley got her hind end up on her shoulders, I'm not pissed because she wanted to know where the hell I had been, I'm pissed because she no longer trusts me. If you don't trust somebody then how can you be in a relationship with them? How can you even be their friend? I guess you could be in a dysfunctional and chaotic relationship, but who needs that?
 
Tali and Garrus asked me if I knew what I was doing with Cerberus. They knew who I was with, Tali even has more reason to hate Cerberus than Williams does, but she still trusted me as did Garrus. Why is it that Williams no longer trusts me? I need something that explains that.
 
Ashley being under orders not to contact Shepard makes no sense. If she had had those orders she would not have disobeyed them because that isn't in her character. It also couldn't have been a threat to harm Shepard if she contacted him because I think that Cerberus fully expected her to be taken by the Collectors and Ashley was already packaged in a container and ready to go when Shepard touched down. Had Shepard been another 10 - 15 minutes later in his arrival, then Williams would have been dog meat. So I don't think that it was an unreasonable expectation. Just an unfortunate turn of events in the eyes of TIM, so there really would have been no need to make that threat.
 
The only thing that I am aware of that would breech the trust between them and cause her to act like she had a screw loose would be if there were another rooster in the hen house. While that would work with her as an LI, it really wouldn't work if she were not one. Frankly, I can only think of one reason why the VS would not be happy to see the dead Shepard rise from the grave wearing Cerberus colors and that would be to protect themselves.
 
Williams has received a promotion to Operations Chief, she is being considered for the Spectres (possibly), she is finally receiving recognition for all of her hard work. It would seem that her dues have finally been paid in full. Then along comes Shepard, it would seem that Williams is on a high note with the return of her lover/friend, but then there is the troubling rumor that Shepard is now a Cerberus operative and Ashley now knows true fear.
 
Fear that such a connection would shatter her now well adjusted life and place a new stain on her families honor after she has worked furiously to cleanse the previous one. People know her and they know that she is famous for her actions in defense of the Citadel and they also know that she is inextricably associated with Shepard because of it. If Shepard really has gone over to the dark side, her newfound reputation is ruined because of her association with him. She will be tainted anew. That, I believe, is the root of her behavior on Horizon. Her worst fears are realized when Shepard admits his association with Cerberus. This is why she backs away from him.
 
It is self interest, not indignation, that causes her to call Shepard a traitor. It is self interest that causes all trust to be discarded with the man that she "loved." That the same could also be said of Alenko makes this a viable hypothesis. He would be just as embarrassed
by his association with Shepard as Williams would. If one applies Occam's razor to the puzzle, then this also checks out as a viable explanation. As bad as this would seem to be, at least I can understand it. If true, Shepard didn't betray Williams. She betrayed him.
 
It is an all too human reaction. One that reveals a ****** in the otherwise perfect armor of the VS. That's why I am raw. Shepard is no longer a friend/lover because the VS is ashamed of him/her and they are ashamed not because they are indignant for Shepard's perceived lack of morality or ethics, but because his actions would reflect poorly on them and might very well foul up their lives. Selfish of the VS? Yes. Human? Absolutely.
 
Unless the BioWare writers have something better than that, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. So in order to fully answer your question, I want a real apology and a real explanation that makes sense. After that, the VS will need to earn back the trust they so casually tossed aside in ME3.

[Iakus]

knightnblu wrote...
Ashley being under orders not to contact Shepard makes no sense. If she had had those orders she would not have disobeyed them because that isn't in her character. It also couldn't have been a threat to harm Shepard if she contacted him because I think that Cerberus fully expected her to be taken by the Collectors and Ashley was already packaged in a container and ready to go when Shepard touched down. Had Shepard been another 10 - 15 minutes later in his arrival, then Williams would have been dog meat. So I don't think that it was an unreasonable expectation. Just an unfortunate turn of events in the eyes of TIM, so there really would have been no need to make that threat.

It could make sense if she forgets herself at seeing the reports were true and Shepard really is alive.  Then remembers her instructions and backs off.  I mean, it's understandable to momentarilly forget yourself after everything that's happened, then recover (however clumsily)

As to threats:  We don't know how long these rumors of Shepard being alive have been circulated.  Weeks? Months?  Since his death?  Some assume that Ash abandoned Shepard and never went back to look for him or his body.  Maybe she did, and was warned off.  Warned off by people not Alliance.

Hmm, that would make for an interesting confrontation between her and Miranda, especially if Shep romanced both of them

Ash:  You!  Shepard this ::expletive::  threatened to kill my sisters if I didn't back off from looking for you!
Shepard:  Oh, boy, this just got a lot more awkward...
 

Williams has received a promotion to Operations Chief, she is being considered for the Spectres (possibly), she is finally receiving recognition for all of her hard work. It would seem that her dues have finally been paid in full. Then along comes Shepard, it would seem that Williams is on a high note with the return of her lover/friend, but then there is the troubling rumor that Shepard is now a Cerberus operative and Ashley now knows true fear.
 
Fear that such a connection would shatter her now well adjusted life and place a new stain on her families honor after she has worked furiously to cleanse the previous one. People know her and they know that she is famous for her actions in defense of the Citadel and they also know that she is inextricably associated with Shepard because of it. If Shepard really has gone over to the dark side, her newfound reputation is ruined because of her association with him. She will be tainted anew. That, I believe, is the root of her behavior on Horizon. Her worst fears are realized when Shepard admits his association with Cerberus. This is why she backs away from him.

That make no sense in my mind.  Ash joined the Alliance even with her family's name blacklisted.  She had that "special kind of thickheadedness" to persevere under those conditions.  That by itself says a lot about her character.  Her guilt at surviving Virmire, her willingness to take emergency leave for her family crisis, she is a self-sacrificing individual.  rank, money, power, don't interest her.  She lives to serve her people.  She's an Alliance soldier.  It's in her blood

If Shepard turned up alive and working with Cerberus (and assuming such work is not incharacter for the Shepard in question) I believe she'd go to the wall to defend him.  She's not one to give her loyalty easily.  But once there, it's well-nigh unshakeable.  Look at the examples:  her family, the Alliance, her religion, humanity in general.  All things she deeply believes in.  Shepard can arguably apply to all four   If her association with him taints her name again, she'd soldier on (so to speak) but she wouldn't betray her principles.

If her anger on Horizon is genuine, then it's because she genuinely thinks Shepard has betrayed her.  Why that would be I cannot fathom.  

 

[Badpie]

Wah wah, Ashley didn't bend down to kiss Shepard's ass like every other character in the game. I hate her! My Shepard is right all the time and no one should ever question him or be angry with him! I need my ego stroked all the time! BAWWWW!

There. I said it.

[knightnblu]

Badpie wrote...

Wah wah, Ashley didn't bend down to kiss Shepard's ass like every other character in the game. I hate her! My Shepard is right all the time and no one should ever question him or be angry with him! I need my ego stroked all the time! BAWWWW!

There. I said it.

Feel better now that you have vomited up your disapproval and made an ass out of yourself do you?

[Gregolian]

Badpie wrote...

Wah wah, Ashley didn't bend down to kiss Shepard's ass like every other character in the game. I hate her! My Shepard is right all the time and no one should ever question him or be angry with him! I need my ego stroked all the time! BAWWWW!

There. I said it.

No, the problem was she really didn't even give Shep a chance to explain why the hell he was doing what he was doing.  She just jumped to conclusions.

[knightnblu]

[quote]iakus wrote...
 
It could make sense if she forgets herself at seeing the reports were true and Shepard really is alive. Then remembers her instructions and backs off. I mean, it's understandable to momentarilly forget yourself after everything that's happened, then recover (however clumsily)
 
As to threats: We don't know how long these rumors of Shepard being alive have been circulated. Weeks? Months? Since his death? Some assume that Ash abandoned Shepard and never went back to look for him or his body. Maybe she did, and was warned off. Warned off by people not Alliance.
 
Hmm, that would make for an interesting confrontation between her and Miranda, especially if Shep romanced both of them
 
Ash: You! Shepard this ::expletive:: threatened to kill my sisters if I didn't back off from looking for you!
Shepard: Oh, boy, this just got a lot more awkward...[quote]


 
I think I would run for cover if that happened! In fact, I think that the Reapers would run for cover if they saw that one coming!
 
As for the rumors, I suspect that they have been circulating for about 8 - 10 weeks prior to Shepard being released from medical. I think that TIM has been consistently underestimated by the players. The more I examine TIM, Cerberus, and their operations the more convinced I am that they are extremely dangerous and conniving. So much so, that TIM makes Machiavelli look like an amateur. How TIM got that devious is anybody's guess, but it is evident that he is very good at it.
 
That's why I don't think that TIM would use threats to secure Williams silence on Shepard. It seems too...overt. If TIM were worried about interference from Williams he would simply eliminate her. Which is probably why he had her assigned to Horizon. I think that he thought that Williams would end up with the Collectors and he would have a fully focused Shepard on his team seeking revenge for the loss of his LI/friend. Only it didn't happen, but it did come very, very close.
 
With regards to promotions, medals, and prestige, I agree with you completely that none of these things matter to Williams. However, she cares a great deal about her family's honor and reputation as defenders of the Alliance. She is deeply embarrassed by the reputation her family received for her grandfather's failure to defeat the Turians and subsequent surrender. She was also bitter about her father working his guts out and never getting anywhere because the Williams family was the goat of the Alliance.
 
That's why she joined the Alliance. She wanted to prove that the Williams family could be trusted and by extension, that she could be trusted and therefore had value as a human being. In fact, she considers this to be so important, that she is willing to die for it. That is why she was willing to martyr herself on Vrmire with the surviving STG. She could perish in service to the Alliance and cleanse the stain on her family name with her own blood. That, my friend, is serious motivation.
 
Therefore, when she is recognized as one of the heroes of the Citadel, she finally achieves her goal of being just like any other person in the Alliance and that is more precious to her than any medal or formal recognition. She has beaten the curse. Her grandfather died without regaining his honor, her father died trying to restore his father's honor, and at long last, Ashley finally makes the cut.
 
That is the root of her fears about Shepard. By Shepard working for Cerberus she fears that she will be linked by association with him and that the stain will be renewed on her and her family's honor all over again. If you and your dad worked your guts out to achieve the cleansing of your family name, would you so lightly throw it away? Would that not be a betrayal of your father and grandfather? To whom does she owe more loyalty, Shepard or her blood?
 
I think that she picked blood.

Modifié par knightnblu, 14 août 2011 - 06:58 .

[Ryzaki]

jreezy wrote...

Badpie wrote...

Wah wah, Ashley didn't bend down to kiss Shepard's ass like every other character in the game. I hate her! My Shepard is right all the time and no one should ever question him or be angry with him! I need my ego stroked all the time! BAWWWW!

There. I said it.

I could easily flip what you said in favor of Shepard but I don't feel like looking like an idiot. Why do people like you always jump to the conclusion that people who disagreed with Ashley's actions wanted her to kiss Shepard's ass?

Probably because that's the only arguement theycan argue without making themselves look like fools. 

Granted that does it anyway but eh. 

[knightnblu]

That is why I hate using the quote feature on this forum. Sorry about the fouled up quotes. Hope you can deciper the above post

[Arppis]

In my other save, yeah. But in my main save, Shepard only loves his mission!

...Infact. Someone should totaly do thread: "Mission lovers!". Hm, or something.

Modifié par Arppis, 14 août 2011 - 07:35 .

[redbaron76]

@ knightnlu

Provide evidence that Ashley does not trust you.

[Made Nightwing]

@Ryzaki. Au contraire, it's not the only argument we have, but in most cases it's perfectly legitimate.

Those like knighblu who have more logical reasons, well it's more fun to debate with them. But what Badpie said is indeed a legit response for a whole lot of the vitriol against the VS.

@knightblu. You ever heard the saying 'Mud over Blood'? It means once you've fought alongside someone, put your life in their hands and have them hold yours, they're closer than family. You're reasoning does make sense, but I truly don't believe Ash would do something like that. For me, it just seems more logical that she truly believes Shepard has betrayed her and the Alliance.

[Ryzaki]

Made Nightwing wrote...

@Ryzaki. Au contraire, it's not the only argument we have, but in most cases it's perfectly legitimate.

Those like knighblu who have more logical reasons, well it's more fun to debate with them. But what Badpie said is indeed a legit response for a whole lot of the vitriol against the VS.

Ah so it's a perfectly legit response to take an arguement out your ass and respond to it when no one said such a thing? 

News to me. 

I guess all the VS supporters must be so hard up on their pixel boyfriend/girlfriend that hey can do no wrong. 

I suppose that's a perfect legit response as well eh? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 15 août 2011 - 01:10 .