1035 réponses à ce sujet

[Mathias]

I don't think we'll have to "win" Ashley back. She pretty much admitted she still loves Shepard when she sent that email. Also if you think about it, the people who romanced Liara won't have to win her back in ME3, because you can rekindle that relationship in LotSB.

If you do have to win Ash/Kaiden back it'll probably be done in 1 conversation. Maybe 2. But it shouldn't take the whole game, that'd be silly. It'd be a repeat of Mass Effect 1. If people can deepen their relationship with Liara, Miranda, Tali, Jacob, Jack, Garrus and Thane in Mass Effect 3, it'd be unfair for people who romanced Ash/Kaiden to start all over again.

[ladyvader]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

I don't think we'll have to "win" Ashley back. She pretty much admitted she still loves Shepard when she sent that email. Also if you think about it, the people who romanced Liara won't have to win her back in ME3, because you can rekindle that relationship in LotSB.

If you do have to win Ash/Kaiden back it'll probably be done in 1 conversation. Maybe 2. But it shouldn't take the whole game, that'd be silly. It'd be a repeat of Mass Effect 1. If people can deepen their relationship with Liara, Miranda, Tali, Jacob, Jack, Garrus and Thane in Mass Effect 3, it'd be unfair for people who romanced Ash/Kaiden to start all over again.

I agree with that completely.  It would be unfair.  Suppose we will see how it plays out in March. 

[DoNotIngest]

The relationship would be awkward if she returns as an irradiated pile of Ash to romance me. The girls of ME1 don't like it when you don't choose either of them...

[knightnblu]

"She pretty much admitted she still loves Shepard when she sent that email."

I would like to know how you figured that. It didn't seem that way to me. That thing sounded more like a Dear John letter than a love letter to me.

[atheelogos]

Alaric123 wrote...

I've had enough of Alien squeeze, bring back the good 'Ol human one nighters.

you've got the right idea^_^

[Raizo]

No.

After Horizon nothing will ever be the same again.

[Badpie]

After Shepard died I'm sure Ash "moved on" so to speak. To never date again is just silly, though if she didn't it was probably more work related/ her being too busy. Even if Shepard hadn't come back there's no way Ash would pine for him forever. This isn't some victorian romance novel.

Also, to me, her letter was pretty clearly "I still love you and can't lose you again" so the ball is kind of in Shepard's court now as far as what will happen with them I think.

[BatmanPWNS]

I cheated on her but I want to see her reaction and what she will do after finding out.

[Pallym]

shes still my girl.... because shes hot

[MadCat221]

Shep was stuck swimming with the Cerberus sharks because no one else would take the Reaper threat seriously... and Ash/Kaidan went wharrgarbl because Shep was swimming with the Cerberus sharks.

That shows lack of objectivity, and lack of loyalty. Especially when he needed people he didn't have to proverbially sleep with one eye open around the most.

I mean, Tali and Garrus were able to overlook that problem and answered Shep's call again.  Tali even did so against her strong antipathy towards Cerberus after what they did to the Idenna.  Wrex had his hands full but seemed otherwise unphased by Shep's (possibly grudging) association with Cerberus.  And Liara made a deal with them to revive Shepard in the first place.  None of the nonhuman comrades from ME1 had a problem with Shep riding with Cerberus.

Modifié par MadCat221, 19 juin 2011 - 06:11 .

[knightnblu]

"None of the nonhuman comrades from ME1 had a problem with Shep riding with Cerberus."

That is an excellent point. Of all of your ME team members, Ashley should have known you the best. They joined you (where they could), she didn't. What's more, Miranda even leaves Cerberus at the climax of the story in support of Shepard. That's big given Miranda's loyalty to Cerberus and her love of her sister whom Cerberus protects.

With Anderson and Admiral Hackett on your side, she easily could have gotten permission from the Alliance to attach to your team. She didn't want to. She just got her hind end up on her shoulders and left.

While it is true that people who care about you will occaisionally do things that they later regret, when you consider that Shepard is arguably only the second person to emerge from death (outside of the D&D universe anyway), I think that she could cut him a little slack. She doesn't and using other peoples poetry like a parrot, won't change that.

[alperez]

knightnblu wrote...

"None of the nonhuman comrades from ME1 had a problem with Shep riding with Cerberus."

Which is actually a really big failing in me2 imo, seriously it really doesn't make sense that they don't but that's because bioware handled things so badly and is nothing to do with character consistency. On one hand bioware wanted to create a justification for not having the VS. just join back up with Shepard so they could save them for me3 as they put it, on the other by doing it how they did it, you then create a situation where characters don't act consistently.

But given what we're given on Horizon, your supposed to ignore how other characters act and simply put it into context regarding the VS.

In terms of Ash she acts completely in character IMO (apart from the in presence of a god line) she's spent her whole life trying to restore her family's honour in the alliance, suffered through crappy commands and basically acheived nothing.

Shepard gave her the opportunity to rise above her family stigma, to be judged by her own actions and not because of her last name. While with Shepard she learns to accept and understand aliens and their place in the universe, she learns that the council may actually have merit and that her attitude to then was wrong or warped. She sees Shepard fight against what is clearly in me1 a terrorist cerberus that does very questionable things.

So when Shepard who she respects, in some way idealises and depending on if she's your Li most definetly falls in love with, first die, then return from the grave only to be now working with the very people he fought against in me1 she should have definte views that perhaps something is not quite right here. Has Shepard changed or is the Shepard she thought she knew really just an idealised version of someone she really didn't. You add in feelings of loss and grief which basically neither Garrus or Tali show much of on top of this and it makes perfect sense she would take a different attitude.

FInally Ash is a serving alliance soldier, one who is on a particular mission given to her by Anderson, a mission where cerberus may be involved someway, suddenly being confronted by a returning Shepard who fought against cerberus but is now inexplicably working with them and you really think it makes sense for her to just rejoin back up?

Cerberus is considered a terrorist organisation by the Alliance, an organisation that may be involved in what's happening on the colonies, even if this is proved wrong for Ash to join them would be treasonous.

Not to mention that she would need to report back her findings to Anderson or risk court martial further tainting her family name.

Ash's actions are perfectly keeping with character continunity other characters not so much imo.

[alperez]

knightnblu wrote...

"She pretty much admitted she still loves Shepard when she sent that email."

I would like to know how you figured that. It didn't seem that way to me. That thing sounded more like a Dear John letter than a love letter to me.

It's a read between the lines thing, she won't just come right out and say it because she's not sure how Shepard feels about her, but she admits she loved him, hopes he comes back and says she can't lose him again. Its saying it without saying it but its there if you look.

[Good Chaos7]

She turned my manShep Gay.

[KingNothing125]

Her post-Horizon email, verbatim:

Subject: Hey there.

Shepard-

I'm sorry for what I said back on Horizon. When I lost you two years ago, it tore me up. I prayed for you every day. I read a lot of Tennyson, thinking about you, just like I did when my dad passed. And then you came back, and it was like my prayers were answered. But I'm not who I was then, and neither are you.

I don't know what's true anymore. Part of me can't believe it's really you. I keep going back to that night before Ilos, our night... I haven't let myself think about those memories in over a year.

I wouldn't have expected you to work for Cerberus, but I know why they sent you to Horizon. I saw how many people were lost there, and if anyone can stop the Collectors, you can. I can't go where you're going, but I can wish you luck.

Just stay alive out there... Skipper. I don't know what the future holds, but I can't lose you a second time.

--Ash



Death closes all: but something ere the end
Some work of noble note, may yet be done,
Not unbecoming men that strove with Gods.

It's pretty obvious she still has feelings for you. But just like Liara in the Shadow Broker DLC, she doesn't really know what to do about them. I would hazard a guess that, also just like Liara in the Shadow Broker DLC, if you pursue Ash, she will reciprocate.

Modifié par KingNothing125, 20 juin 2011 - 12:20 .

[knightnblu]

alperez- You make some very good points, but I still say that she should have known Shep best of all. Relationships are give and take and when you really do love someone you have jump in with both feet. Holding back on the one to whom you profess love does not make a solid relationship. Where is the trust? To whom are you more loyal? The one that you profess to love or your past?

Ashley is driven, she pushes herself to be an exemplary marine and she is desperate to remove the stain of her family honor. In a firefight she is aggressive and deadly. Shepard is also a marine's marine, he has fought for and defended the Alliance and my Shep even won the Star of Terra doing so, but all of that means nothing to her apparently.

I can appreciate the fact that she doesn't want to deepen what she feels is her families unjust shame, but who will she really stand by? My Shep considers Cerberus terrorists and expects them to double deal just like Williams does, but he chooses the lesser of two evils and works to save the colonists. If you are right, she chooses her own benefit. I have nothing against self interest, but that usually does not work in relationships where you have to give of yourself. Additionally, it also brings into question what she would have done had she been in Shepard's position. I'm thinking that she would have said screw the colonists had she been in his shoes.

I will admit to feeling dirty while working for an organization that has experimented on human beings and slaughtered children for fun and profit, but if I don't then tens of thousands more will suffer for the decision. I can understand Ashley's hesitancy to throw in for that reason, but her feelings for Shepard, if indeed she still has them, and her knowledge of the man's character should have given her a pointer. It is that lack of faith and trust that defines her true feelings in my opinion.

Honestly, I think that it would have been better to just have her off on some secret assignment doing something for the Alliance, Council, or whatever and leave the reunion for ME3 rather than throw it into the blender with ME2. Unless there is another reason to do so and that is what I suspect. If you want her, then you will have to fight for her. But if she is that fouled up, what's the point? She's hot? So what.

KingNothing125- When I read Ashley's tepid apology all I see is friendship, not romantic involvement. Actions speak louder than words and Shepard is all about action. He doesn't stand by and worry about what Mom will think or if his armor makes his butt look big. He just does what he has to do. He does it because if he doesn't then people will die.

Then there is the ...Skipper thing, what the heck is that? She couldn't' just call Shep Skipper, she held back. Why? You see it as emotional vulnerability, but I remember a girl on the Citadel who was a bit more aggressive than that. From suggesting dinner to romantic views of the Wards, she let you know that she was interested. Now all of the sudden she's a timid school girl? I don't buy it.

[alperez]

Knight-part of the problem though is that the character has to fit both a romanced and non romance role, so while the romanceable Ash really should perhaps just rejoin the man she loves, the non romanceable Ash has to fit in other justifications if you get me.

So like i said you have a returning Shepard who was pro alliance, a military hero, humanities first spectre and a shining beacon of what was noblest about humans. Someone who confronted with cerberus's actions didn't just stand idly by but went out of his way to stop them suddenly to be not only working with them but apparently agreeing that their way is the right way.

Why not bring the alliance on board, or get help from Anderson (yes we know the reasons) but to Ash none of this is even brought up, it looks at best like Shepards gone completely rogue and at worst is a terrorist also why should Ash risk everything she's worked for when nothing Shepard says makes it seem he is right and everyone else is wrong. Theres leaps of faith and leaps of faith and to me that one is just a leap too far.

My own feelings on cerberus are practically the same as yours the problem though is that the Shepard we play on horizon doesn't get to put this across well, in fact at times it seems that he's pro cerberus which only adds to the stupidity of the dialogue.

As for the Skipper thing i'll give you my take on it,

One of the things Ash seems really upset about imo is the fact that Shepard has returned yet its taken this long to try and contact her, shepards response to this is a joke (its been too long you've moved on) or something equally bad. Ash says she would have followed him anywhere. you were more than our commander or something like that.

Now either way you analyse it as a romance or non romance its clear she's hurt by this that in some ways she sees this also as a betrayal and evidence that either the man she loves or the skipper she would have followed into hell may not be the person she hoped he was.

So a tentative Skipper i think is called for and makes sense, she doesn't know if the man before her is the man she remembered or if her memory of him is clouded by his death.

[Aedan_Cousland]

If all three assertions are true, then how likely is it that Ash would pine for you until the day that she died herself? Most people would move on after they had grieved, and Ash has even admitted that she has not thought about your romance for a year. Those who romanced Ashley will likely not enjoy hearing this, but if she honestly believed you were dead, why wouldn't she move on and date somebody else?

I agree completely. No way a hot girl like Ash is single for two years waiting for a dead man.

I think it is a bit unrealistic that all the potential LIs would remain single for two years, pining for a dead man they had no reasonable expectation of ever seeing again. I think Ash & Kaidan definitely should have dated a few people in that time span, whether or not it was something serious.

Probably Liara a well, though her situation is a little tricky in that she's a member of an alien species that often lives over a thousand years. As such a long lived species it is also possible that they go much longer periods without dating and live less in the here & now.

I think Ashley's romance should be written in such a way that Shep has to win her back, though I'd have her be single again at the start of ME3.

[alperez]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...


I agree completely. No way a hot girl like Ash is single for two years waiting for a dead man.

I think it is a bit unrealistic that all the potential LIs would remain single for two years, pining for a dead man they had no reasonable expectation of ever seeing again. I think Ash & Kaidan definitely should have dated a few people in that time span, whether or not it was something serious.

Probably Liara a well, though her situation is a little tricky in that she's a member of an alien species that often lives over a thousand years. As such a long lived species it is also possible that they go much longer periods without dating and live less in the here & now.

I think Ashley's romance should be written in such a way that Shep has to win her back, though I'd have her be single again at the start of ME3.

There are 3 major flaws though in this logic,

1. Liara, look how they handled the whole Liara situation in LOSB, They introduced a character that we knew about through the comics and then me2 itself  (feron) and gave Liara a plotline where she was searching for the SB to save him. It would have made sense to have Feron as a potential rival but they choose to *turian councillor* and dismiss this idea.

If they didn't do it with Liara then it makes sense they wouldn't with anyone else.

2. consequences of Shepard cheating.

They made a big deal that there might be consequences of Shepard cheating, not that your previous Li would be involved with another person but that Shepard might move on and there could be consequences if that happens.

Now to do that in a situation where the Li had also moved on would be redundant, it makes no sense i mean seriously what could be a consequence for Shepard cheating on his Li if his Li was already involved with someone else.

3. Variables damn variables.

There are enough variables to be brought through to me3 as it is for them to add in extra variables that we haven't seen yet. Technically they have to add in a variable for a faithful shepard and an unfaithful shepard to then add in a Li for a potential Li also would just be extra work for no real payoff.

As for whether or not Ash would move on, i and others i think have made the case why she wouldn't just because she's attractive, no doubt there was interest from others, but it doesn't mean it was reciprocated.

[ShepardsIdol]

If anyone tries to take Ash from me, ill cut their balls off and sell them to a Krogan!!! That being said, i dont really have any idea what happens between the games and dont really care to be honest. I know if i can go toe to toe with Saren, an army of Geth, the Shadow Broker, Sovereign, Harbinger, and an entire Reaper invasion, i am quite certain i can take any snot nosed failure attempting to take my girl (refer to first sentence of post if this is not clear enough) I doubt anything near serious has developed since my death, afterall if the love of your life died saving you and your crew, would you be able to come to terms with the incident in 2 years? Granted, she is a strong, independent woman with newly acquired SPECTRE  status and a promotion to Lt. None of this is any match for the loss of someone she admired and even loved. I dont, however, think its too late to introduce competition and i am very faithful in Bioware's abilities to pull off such a grand twist since they pulled off such an amazing part 2 which could last around 30 hours. i have seen movies with 10 times as many plot twists in an hour and a half time span with a somewhat decent ending. The developers are known to throw some twists and turns and considering they dont have to work on continuity with another sequel. I guess we shall see when ME3 comes out but Ash will always be my girl, and maybe a little Miranda too for another Shepard and nobody is gonna tell me or any of you other Ashley Loyalists out there that shes not your woman anymore. (Retreat?!? Hell!!!)  

[ArcticMan94]

...I though I was 'her man,' not the other way around.

[Red Panda]

Yes, Kaiden is still my girl.

[Anezay]

tomas2377 wrote...

I hope that she stayed faithfull to Shepard but even if she hasn't. I can understand it. 2 years is a long time. All that matters is that I/my Shepard stayed faithfull to her and no matter what he will get her back; war or no war, he will win her heart back.
But perhaps Shepard was that good that any other man pales in comparrison. 

It's a lot easier to be faithful when you're dead.

[BIGGxDADDYx]

I agree that ashley was a little flaky on shepard and probably alot of people thought that she probably was brushing shep off but in ME1 even at the end she was reluctant to show feelings towards shepard add to the fact that there was the high probablity that everyone on shepards crew might have been a "Cerberus Dog" she has the right to be a little reluctant to fall into his arms. As far as all the non-human crew following shepard without question you have to remember that shepard was humanity at it's best not to mention the fact besides Tali and Mordin they'll all live much longer than humans and seeing someone with such a short lifespan battling for people who hate him tends to attract someone 

[KingNothing125]

Considering the encounter on Horizon, look at it from Ash's perspective. The Alliance gets intel (anonymously from the Illusive Man) that Cerberus might be behind the human colony attacks, Horizon could be next, and Shepard might be (A) alive and ( with Cerberus.

Ash gets sent to Horizon to set up defenses, the Collectors attack, and then Shepard shows up with Cerberus. Basically everything in the intel was confirmed.

Of course Ash is going to be pissed at that point. Why shouldn't she be? Her Alliance intel didn't say anything about Reapers. She goes to Horizon, it gets attacked by Collectors, and then Cerberus shows up with Shepard. She's not privy to any of the information the player is. Knowing that, it's perfectly reasonable to draw the conclusions that she did. Yeah you kinda get sandbagged by the dialogue choices... but it seems to me like that happens a lot in Mass Effect anyway... the numerous times you butt heads with the Council for example. You both got set up by the Illusive Man.

The fact that she later thinks about what she said, takes a lot of it back, and (A) wishes you good luck and ( doesn't want to "lose you a second time" tells me that Ash is still "your girl" if you want her.

Modifié par KingNothing125, 21 juin 2011 - 03:30 .