@knightblu:
Every once in a while a post comes along that I think the developers should print out and pin to a bulletin board for the entire Bioware team to read and take to heart. This is one of them
Bravo.
Is Ashley Still your girl?
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knightnblu
, juin 18 2011 10:55
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#527
Posté 21 août 2011 - 12:55
knightnblu
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@iakus:
Thank you so much for the kind words. It is my hope that they will listen and consider what I have said.
Thank you so much for the kind words. It is my hope that they will listen and consider what I have said.
#528
Posté 22 août 2011 - 07:20
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Made Nightwing wrote...
@ubermensch007. Bull**** you say? I call bull**** on you. Jacob left the Alliance because he was sick of not getting anything done. I hardly think Ash would have been discharged, not when the camera footage the Normandy was sent shows her fighting just as hard as every other marine in her unit.
Her line simply means that she is independent, and that she's proud of being like that. No, not everyone's self aware in real life, but every other part of Ash is genuine, so why shouldn't that be too?
Modifié par ubermensch007, 22 août 2011 - 07:20 .
#529
Posté 22 août 2011 - 10:52
ubermensch007
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@knightnblu, I was going to compliment you on what you wrote in the last post on the previous page; but iakus beat me to it 
But I will add this.The passion with which you speak and the way you champion character driven stories.Leads me to suspect that if you were on the set (as it were) of Mass Effect 3.The writers would benefit greatly by having you 'call them out' if they start veering off course.BioWare -- HIRE KNIGHTNBLU His thoughts and opinions are good for you... :innocent:
But I will add this.The passion with which you speak and the way you champion character driven stories.Leads me to suspect that if you were on the set (as it were) of Mass Effect 3.The writers would benefit greatly by having you 'call them out' if they start veering off course.BioWare -- HIRE KNIGHTNBLU His thoughts and opinions are good for you... :innocent:
Modifié par ubermensch007, 22 août 2011 - 10:53 .
#530
Posté 23 août 2011 - 04:07
knightnblu
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@ubermensch007:
Thanks for the kind words my friend. I just hope that BioWare considers what I have said. From past experience with ME, they have proven that they give an ear to their fans, so I have hope :-)
Thanks for the kind words my friend. I just hope that BioWare considers what I have said. From past experience with ME, they have proven that they give an ear to their fans, so I have hope :-)
#531
Posté 09 septembre 2011 - 03:47
knightnblu
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You may have noticed that this thread has been dormant for a few weeks. This is primarily because I have had nothing new to say. Some of that time has been spent considering, some of it has been spent on gaming, and some of it spent on work. I see threads regarding VS haters and lovers and it is readily apparent that where there is smoke, there is fire and the passion burns brightly on both sides of the issue. I have often argued that such passions are the mark of a good story. You either love it or you hate it, but you certainly cannot feel ambivalent about it. Where Ashley is concerned, I am angry.
While there is some vindication in the similar views of my fellow gamers being reflected in these threads, the only true redress of my, and many other gamers besides, will be the correction of Ashley's malfunction in ME3. To recap my arguments I provide the following list of events if she were your LI:
1. Ashley knew you best and was intimate with you aboard the SR1
2. Ashley said that she had loved you
3. Ashley witnessed your character by observing you decisions personally
4. Ashley's loyalty was without question in ME1
5. Ashley gives you a hug and she is furious with you while she gives it
6. Ashley learns that you are working with Cerberus and she calls you a traitor
7. This is exactly how General Williams was pilloried by the Alliance
8. Ashley leaves branding you as an extremist and terrorist
I have argued before that people who engage in high risk, black ops should not have long term relationships or families because they complicate the issues. Wives you never see, children you never parent, and birthdays and holidays you miss can never be replaced or repaired. It doesn't work. I thought that Ashley would be different, that she would understand being so thoroughly military. I was wrong.
A life of one night stands or dating someone for a few weeks is about all one can expect if you seek that kind of life. This is because you cannot tell your wife/husband what you really do, they would never understand the emotions of such a life or its consequences, and if they ever did find out what you do they would likely react like they had been living with a serial killer. You know, just like Ash did. There are some benefits to such a life, but family isn't amongst them.
Of all your former crew, only Tali and Garrus trust you enough to come with. Your lover from ME1 thinks that you are a treasonous bastard and won't give you the time of day and that is an irony. The aliens trust you, but your own kind does not. That does give a bit of credence to what Admiral Mikhailovich said in ME1 when he asked me do I even know what color my blood is anymore at the Citadel.
It is ultimately Williams betrayal that stings the most. When I was all alone, engaged by an advanced and deadly enemy with no allies, she abandoned me. A blithe "just be careful out there" and "...skipper" doesn't even begin to patch that up. Because its
personal.
Some say that she did it for the right reasons, that you really did abandon her and that you should have contacted her, that you should have bent over backwards and kissed your own behind. Well, maybe not the last part, but you get my meaning. You wake up on a surgical table and there is gunfire and the screams of the dying echoing off of the walls and not a payphone anywhere in sight and you left your cell aboard the SR1 and the roaming was killer.
So you survive. You go to the Citadel and ask Anderson about Ashley and he won't give you the time of day either. See a pattern here? TIM is active and making sure that you stay bound to Cerberus whether you want to or not. He has shut down all of your options and is pulling the strings bringing you inexorably toward the Collectors and confrontation. You are captured whether you know it or not. That is the fact that seems to escape the notice of so many of Williams apologists. It has been said that there will be consequences for "cheating" on your ME1 LI. Are you kidding me? After Horizon Ash is going to get a case of the ass at me for moving on? Frankly, I don't give a damn what
Ashley thinks about Miranda/Tali and I being together. They didn't leave me swinging in the breeze like she did. You can't hang somebody out to dry and then expect them to be loyal to you because that's just insane.
Did I keep a pure save for ME3? Yes, I did on the off chance that Williams can somehow redeem herself. But there needs to be another confrontation between Shepard and Williams and Shep should demand an explanation for her betrayal of him. More, I need to hear her explain herself. That is where I stand.
While there is some vindication in the similar views of my fellow gamers being reflected in these threads, the only true redress of my, and many other gamers besides, will be the correction of Ashley's malfunction in ME3. To recap my arguments I provide the following list of events if she were your LI:
1. Ashley knew you best and was intimate with you aboard the SR1
2. Ashley said that she had loved you
3. Ashley witnessed your character by observing you decisions personally
4. Ashley's loyalty was without question in ME1
5. Ashley gives you a hug and she is furious with you while she gives it
6. Ashley learns that you are working with Cerberus and she calls you a traitor
7. This is exactly how General Williams was pilloried by the Alliance
8. Ashley leaves branding you as an extremist and terrorist
I have argued before that people who engage in high risk, black ops should not have long term relationships or families because they complicate the issues. Wives you never see, children you never parent, and birthdays and holidays you miss can never be replaced or repaired. It doesn't work. I thought that Ashley would be different, that she would understand being so thoroughly military. I was wrong.
A life of one night stands or dating someone for a few weeks is about all one can expect if you seek that kind of life. This is because you cannot tell your wife/husband what you really do, they would never understand the emotions of such a life or its consequences, and if they ever did find out what you do they would likely react like they had been living with a serial killer. You know, just like Ash did. There are some benefits to such a life, but family isn't amongst them.
Of all your former crew, only Tali and Garrus trust you enough to come with. Your lover from ME1 thinks that you are a treasonous bastard and won't give you the time of day and that is an irony. The aliens trust you, but your own kind does not. That does give a bit of credence to what Admiral Mikhailovich said in ME1 when he asked me do I even know what color my blood is anymore at the Citadel.
It is ultimately Williams betrayal that stings the most. When I was all alone, engaged by an advanced and deadly enemy with no allies, she abandoned me. A blithe "just be careful out there" and "...skipper" doesn't even begin to patch that up. Because its
personal.
Some say that she did it for the right reasons, that you really did abandon her and that you should have contacted her, that you should have bent over backwards and kissed your own behind. Well, maybe not the last part, but you get my meaning. You wake up on a surgical table and there is gunfire and the screams of the dying echoing off of the walls and not a payphone anywhere in sight and you left your cell aboard the SR1 and the roaming was killer.
So you survive. You go to the Citadel and ask Anderson about Ashley and he won't give you the time of day either. See a pattern here? TIM is active and making sure that you stay bound to Cerberus whether you want to or not. He has shut down all of your options and is pulling the strings bringing you inexorably toward the Collectors and confrontation. You are captured whether you know it or not. That is the fact that seems to escape the notice of so many of Williams apologists. It has been said that there will be consequences for "cheating" on your ME1 LI. Are you kidding me? After Horizon Ash is going to get a case of the ass at me for moving on? Frankly, I don't give a damn what
Ashley thinks about Miranda/Tali and I being together. They didn't leave me swinging in the breeze like she did. You can't hang somebody out to dry and then expect them to be loyal to you because that's just insane.
Did I keep a pure save for ME3? Yes, I did on the off chance that Williams can somehow redeem herself. But there needs to be another confrontation between Shepard and Williams and Shep should demand an explanation for her betrayal of him. More, I need to hear her explain herself. That is where I stand.
#532
Posté 09 septembre 2011 - 05:40
YouthCultureForever
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knightnblu wrote...
You may have noticed that this thread has been dormant for a few weeks. This is primarily because I have had nothing new to say. Some of that time has been spent considering, some of it has been spent on gaming, and some of it spent on work. I see threads regarding VS haters and lovers and it is readily apparent that where there is smoke, there is fire and the passion burns brightly on both sides of the issue. I have often argued that such passions are the mark of a good story. You either love it or you hate it, but you certainly cannot feel ambivalent about it. Where Ashley is concerned, I am angry.
While there is some vindication in the similar views of my fellow gamers being reflected in these threads, the only true redress of my, and many other gamers besides, will be the correction of Ashley's malfunction in ME3. To recap my arguments I provide the following list of events if she were your LI:
1. Ashley knew you best and was intimate with you aboard the SR1
2. Ashley said that she had loved you
3. Ashley witnessed your character by observing you decisions personally
4. Ashley's loyalty was without question in ME1
5. Ashley gives you a hug and she is furious with you while she gives it
6. Ashley learns that you are working with Cerberus and she calls you a traitor
7. This is exactly how General Williams was pilloried by the Alliance
8. Ashley leaves branding you as an extremist and terrorist
I have argued before that people who engage in high risk, black ops should not have long term relationships or families because they complicate the issues. Wives you never see, children you never parent, and birthdays and holidays you miss can never be replaced or repaired. It doesn't work. I thought that Ashley would be different, that she would understand being so thoroughly military. I was wrong.
A life of one night stands or dating someone for a few weeks is about all one can expect if you seek that kind of life. This is because you cannot tell your wife/husband what you really do, they would never understand the emotions of such a life or its consequences, and if they ever did find out what you do they would likely react like they had been living with a serial killer. You know, just like Ash did. There are some benefits to such a life, but family isn't amongst them.
Of all your former crew, only Tali and Garrus trust you enough to come with. Your lover from ME1 thinks that you are a treasonous bastard and won't give you the time of day and that is an irony. The aliens trust you, but your own kind does not. That does give a bit of credence to what Admiral Mikhailovich said in ME1 when he asked me do I even know what color my blood is anymore at the Citadel.
It is ultimately Williams betrayal that stings the most. When I was all alone, engaged by an advanced and deadly enemy with no allies, she abandoned me. A blithe "just be careful out there" and "...skipper" doesn't even begin to patch that up. Because its
personal.
Some say that she did it for the right reasons, that you really did abandon her and that you should have contacted her, that you should have bent over backwards and kissed your own behind. Well, maybe not the last part, but you get my meaning. You wake up on a surgical table and there is gunfire and the screams of the dying echoing off of the walls and not a payphone anywhere in sight and you left your cell aboard the SR1 and the roaming was killer.
So you survive. You go to the Citadel and ask Anderson about Ashley and he won't give you the time of day either. See a pattern here? TIM is active and making sure that you stay bound to Cerberus whether you want to or not. He has shut down all of your options and is pulling the strings bringing you inexorably toward the Collectors and confrontation. You are captured whether you know it or not. That is the fact that seems to escape the notice of so many of Williams apologists. It has been said that there will be consequences for "cheating" on your ME1 LI. Are you kidding me? After Horizon Ash is going to get a case of the ass at me for moving on? Frankly, I don't give a damn what
Ashley thinks about Miranda/Tali and I being together. They didn't leave me swinging in the breeze like she did. You can't hang somebody out to dry and then expect them to be loyal to you because that's just insane.
Did I keep a pure save for ME3? Yes, I did on the off chance that Williams can somehow redeem herself. But there needs to be another confrontation between Shepard and Williams and Shep should demand an explanation for her betrayal of him. More, I need to hear her explain herself. That is where I stand.
I don't understand why everyone demonizes the VS. IMO, Ashley is the only character in the game who made any sense at all. Why shouldn't she question your alliance with Cerberus? Its hella shady Shepard would lead the most classifed mission in the organization's history with a, "Well, its in the best interest of the galaxy".
That answer certainly borders on unbelieveale, I don't care who you are.
Ashley asks legitimate questions and makes keen observations. "What did they do to you?", "What if they're the ones working with the Collectors?", "Maybe you feel like you owe Cerberus for saving you." Shepard does not do any sort of professional or emotional probing whatsoever.
And she doesn't call Shepard an extremist. Its baffling to her that the Shepard she knew would even associate with Cerberus. And when she calls you a traitor, IMO its because you aren't the same person she knew. Its an emotional betrayal. In her eyes, you don't stand for the same things anymore. Thats heartwrenching.
And would it really have been so hard to drop her line after you get on the Normandy? No. I don't see how that would be bending over backwards for her. The woman you love shouldn't have to take a backseat to spam mail. Bioware didn't allow you that option because they engineered the confrontation on Horizon, and thank God they did. It was one of the highlights of the game. If you want to use it as an excuse for hooking up with a new LI, then Ashley was right. You really have changed.
Modifié par YouthCultureForever, 09 septembre 2011 - 05:44 .
#533
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Posté 09 septembre 2011 - 09:26
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Ashley branded you a traitor and a terrorist without any proof. She called you a traitor to the Alliance when you saved a human colony before her very eyes, and she refused to work with you on made-up suspicions, on vague fears and suppositions, on "what if"s, despite every evidence that you were still a hero, that you were completely honest with her, and that you were simply fighting the Reapers like you always did.
I can't wait to hear what Ashley has to say in ME3, now that you've blown up a batarian system, and there isn't any slightest proof that you did it because the Reapers were coming. How will she justify her decision to join you, now that there's so much of damning evidence against you? Now that you're actually, to all intents and purposes, a terrorist in the eyes of the galaxy.
Say what you will about the Reapers coming, I bet those batarians are really terrified. Who wants to target the human colonies again and try to bring down the sky when humans are so obviously nuts that they don't hesitate to sacrifice a mass relay to get their revenge and send a message to "batarian rebellions"? Sure Shepard might claim that it was just one big coincidence that it was a batarian system, and that he was doing it for the good of the galaxy, and that he wasn't using the Reaper threat as an excuse and a cover-up, but if you're a batarian, would you bet your life on it?
She didn't even need any evidence to leave you before. What will she say now, "everything's in the past?" I'm going to laugh so hard if that happens.
Of course, it's not the Alliance job to protect the batarian systems against the human demonstrations of power and the acts of retribution. The System Alliance's job is to protect human colonies in space. Which...oops, is what VS refused to help Shepard with in ME2.
People say that Horizon should be just forgotten, let's just leave it in the past. They must not care much for VS' character, if they see everything that happens between Shepard and VS as not important and worthy of quick oblivion. I agree that there's no time or need to bring up Horizon again in a conversation, since it's pointless to discuss something that cannot be amended, but forget it? Never.
People claim that Shepard and VS should become automatically pals again, now that the Reapers are here. Well, the Reapers were here in ME2, too. Maybe the most of the galaxy missed it, but my Shepard was fighting a Reaper and his agents throughout the game. And humanity was attacked in ME2, too. Sure, it wasn't as dire to humanity as the Earth being targeted, but for those individual humans on the colonies who got liquified it doesn't make much of a difference.
No, the Reaper invasion is not the reason why VS is now on board of your ship and greets you like nothing's happened. VS is here because you're not with Cerberus anymore.
Believe you me, if you were still working with Cerberus in ME3, VS would've never joined you, no matter the Earth and the galaxy being massacred. And that's what makes VS character so unworthy of trust and respect. And people just want to brush that aside, and never address that again. If I have any option, I'm not having on my crew a person whose priorities are so absolutely screwed.
There was a mention that Ashley / Kaidan have a very good reason for their behavior on Horizon, just like Liara had a good reason for being cold to you in ME2, and it was explained in LotSB. I don't know about "good", because I still haven't the slightest idea why Liara was being cold, other than she was really obsessed with getting her revenge on SB while there were Collectors out there to fight. But I have to wonder what VS excuse is going to be, because I can't think of anything good enough.
Maybe Cerberus slaughtered all of Ashley's numerous sisters? Or used all of Kaidan's friends for experiments? I hope not, because the line of humans who are after Cerberus for personal revenge is really getting tiresomely long. Besides, how is that a good reason for leaving the rest of humanity to rot? Even an Akuze survivor still works with Cerberus because he wants to save humanity, because it makes more sense to fight and risk your life for the living than for the dead - although I hear a lot of selfish complaints from people about it.
Besides, if there's a reason, one would think that VS would mention it, at the very least. Didn't Shepard deserve as much?
I can't wait to hear what Ashley has to say in ME3, now that you've blown up a batarian system, and there isn't any slightest proof that you did it because the Reapers were coming. How will she justify her decision to join you, now that there's so much of damning evidence against you? Now that you're actually, to all intents and purposes, a terrorist in the eyes of the galaxy.
Say what you will about the Reapers coming, I bet those batarians are really terrified. Who wants to target the human colonies again and try to bring down the sky when humans are so obviously nuts that they don't hesitate to sacrifice a mass relay to get their revenge and send a message to "batarian rebellions"? Sure Shepard might claim that it was just one big coincidence that it was a batarian system, and that he was doing it for the good of the galaxy, and that he wasn't using the Reaper threat as an excuse and a cover-up, but if you're a batarian, would you bet your life on it?
She didn't even need any evidence to leave you before. What will she say now, "everything's in the past?" I'm going to laugh so hard if that happens.
Of course, it's not the Alliance job to protect the batarian systems against the human demonstrations of power and the acts of retribution. The System Alliance's job is to protect human colonies in space. Which...oops, is what VS refused to help Shepard with in ME2.
People say that Horizon should be just forgotten, let's just leave it in the past. They must not care much for VS' character, if they see everything that happens between Shepard and VS as not important and worthy of quick oblivion. I agree that there's no time or need to bring up Horizon again in a conversation, since it's pointless to discuss something that cannot be amended, but forget it? Never.
People claim that Shepard and VS should become automatically pals again, now that the Reapers are here. Well, the Reapers were here in ME2, too. Maybe the most of the galaxy missed it, but my Shepard was fighting a Reaper and his agents throughout the game. And humanity was attacked in ME2, too. Sure, it wasn't as dire to humanity as the Earth being targeted, but for those individual humans on the colonies who got liquified it doesn't make much of a difference.
No, the Reaper invasion is not the reason why VS is now on board of your ship and greets you like nothing's happened. VS is here because you're not with Cerberus anymore.
Believe you me, if you were still working with Cerberus in ME3, VS would've never joined you, no matter the Earth and the galaxy being massacred. And that's what makes VS character so unworthy of trust and respect. And people just want to brush that aside, and never address that again. If I have any option, I'm not having on my crew a person whose priorities are so absolutely screwed.
There was a mention that Ashley / Kaidan have a very good reason for their behavior on Horizon, just like Liara had a good reason for being cold to you in ME2, and it was explained in LotSB. I don't know about "good", because I still haven't the slightest idea why Liara was being cold, other than she was really obsessed with getting her revenge on SB while there were Collectors out there to fight. But I have to wonder what VS excuse is going to be, because I can't think of anything good enough.
Maybe Cerberus slaughtered all of Ashley's numerous sisters? Or used all of Kaidan's friends for experiments? I hope not, because the line of humans who are after Cerberus for personal revenge is really getting tiresomely long. Besides, how is that a good reason for leaving the rest of humanity to rot? Even an Akuze survivor still works with Cerberus because he wants to save humanity, because it makes more sense to fight and risk your life for the living than for the dead - although I hear a lot of selfish complaints from people about it.
Besides, if there's a reason, one would think that VS would mention it, at the very least. Didn't Shepard deserve as much?
#534
Posté 09 septembre 2011 - 09:40
Omega4RelayResident
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Ashley who?
Oh you mean the chick that dumped me on Horizon and called me a traitor and didnt care if I was traumatized after dying.... NAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!
Oh you mean the chick that dumped me on Horizon and called me a traitor and didnt care if I was traumatized after dying.... NAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!
#535
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Posté 09 septembre 2011 - 09:42
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Oh my....Some people over in the Miranda thread actually prefer Miranda but looking at this I definitely prefer the real thing.Omega4RelayResident wrote...
Ashley who?
Oh you mean the chick that dumped me on Horizon and called me a traitor and didnt care if I was traumatized after dying.... NAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!
Modifié par jreezy, 09 septembre 2011 - 09:42 .
#536
Posté 09 septembre 2011 - 09:47
Made Nightwing
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Omega4RelayResident wrote...
Ashley who?
*snip*
Oh you mean the chick that dumped me on Horizon and called me a traitor and didnt care if I was traumatized after dying.... NAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!
Shepard who? Oh, you mean the inarticulate douchebag who greets the woman he loved with the words, "It's been too long, how've you been?" I don't know what planet you're from, but where I come from, something a tad more affectionate would probably be in order.
And being traumatized by the person you love dying, and carrying that grief and guilt around for two years is probably a bit worse than the trauma of getting brought back to life. Shepard kinda got the good end on that deal.
#537
Posté 09 septembre 2011 - 09:52
Omega4RelayResident
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Made Nightwing wrote...
Omega4RelayResident wrote...
Ashley who?
*snip*
Oh you mean the chick that dumped me on Horizon and called me a traitor and didnt care if I was traumatized after dying.... NAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!
Shepard who? Oh, you mean the inarticulate douchebag who greets the woman he loved with the words, "It's been too long, how've you been?" I don't know what planet you're from, but where I come from, something a tad more affectionate would probably be in order.
And being traumatized by the person you love dying, and carrying that grief and guilt around for two years is probably a bit worse than the trauma of getting brought back to life. Shepard kinda got the good end on that deal.
Dont you dare lecture me... I actually saw my G/F die in front of my own eyes 10 years ago... if someone had resurected her I would have run up to her huged and kiss her and worry about her feelings and if she was traumatized by the death. Not the BS Ashley did to Shep by calling him a traitor and breaking up with him.
How about: "Wow you saved my fanny again Shep." THATS A GOOD DAMN START!
#538
Posté 09 septembre 2011 - 09:57
Made Nightwing
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@laecraft. The Akuze Survivor working with Cerberus without protest....I'm just going to write that off as shoddy writing.
As for the rest, I don't really need Ashley to have a good reason. She's a passionate person who's been carrying around a lot of baggage for the past two years. Horizon gave her a chance to get all her grief and survivor's guilt off her chest, and Shepard was the closest available target to use as an emotional punching bag. If she was still mad she wouldn't have sent the email.
At the end of the day, my argument remains the same as it always has. We can have all the fights in the world about Ashley's reasons and motivations, but at the end of the day? Sometimes people are just people. We're not always as good, noble and trusting as we think we are. Sometimes we say hurtful and petty things to the people we love and care about, only to realise later just how badly we f***ed up. It's what makes us human. It's what makes Ashley human. She's not some perfect video game character, she makes mistakes like an ordinary, real person.
As for the rest, I don't really need Ashley to have a good reason. She's a passionate person who's been carrying around a lot of baggage for the past two years. Horizon gave her a chance to get all her grief and survivor's guilt off her chest, and Shepard was the closest available target to use as an emotional punching bag. If she was still mad she wouldn't have sent the email.
At the end of the day, my argument remains the same as it always has. We can have all the fights in the world about Ashley's reasons and motivations, but at the end of the day? Sometimes people are just people. We're not always as good, noble and trusting as we think we are. Sometimes we say hurtful and petty things to the people we love and care about, only to realise later just how badly we f***ed up. It's what makes us human. It's what makes Ashley human. She's not some perfect video game character, she makes mistakes like an ordinary, real person.
Modifié par Made Nightwing, 09 septembre 2011 - 09:58 .
#539
Posté 09 septembre 2011 - 10:03
Omega4RelayResident
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Made Nightwing wrote...
@laecraft. The Akuze Survivor working with Cerberus without protest....I'm just going to write that off as shoddy writing.
As for the rest, I don't really need Ashley to have a good reason. She's a passionate person who's been carrying around a lot of baggage for the past two years. Horizon gave her a chance to get all her grief and survivor's guilt off her chest, and Shepard was the closest available target to use as an emotional punching bag. If she was still mad she wouldn't have sent the email.
At the end of the day, my argument remains the same as it always has. We can have all the fights in the world about Ashley's reasons and motivations, but at the end of the day? Sometimes people are just people. We're not always as good, noble and trusting as we think we are. Sometimes we say hurtful and petty things to the people we love and care about, only to realise later just how badly we f***ed up. It's what makes us human. It's what makes Ashley human. She's not some perfect video game character, she makes mistakes like an ordinary, real person.
After this statement I respect you. You put your feelings well but I do not in any way agree with what Ashley did to Shep knowing what it feels to lose someone. My current G/F respects my feelings of loss for my EX that passed... and she hates all the other EXs.... ROFL
Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 09 septembre 2011 - 10:05 .
#540
Posté 09 septembre 2011 - 10:06
Made Nightwing
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Omega4RelayResident wrote...
Made Nightwing wrote...
Omega4RelayResident wrote...
Ashley who?
*snip*
Oh you mean the chick that dumped me on Horizon and called me a traitor and didnt care if I was traumatized after dying.... NAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!
Shepard who? Oh, you mean the inarticulate douchebag who greets the woman he loved with the words, "It's been too long, how've you been?" I don't know what planet you're from, but where I come from, something a tad more affectionate would probably be in order.
And being traumatized by the person you love dying, and carrying that grief and guilt around for two years is probably a bit worse than the trauma of getting brought back to life. Shepard kinda got the good end on that deal.
Dont you dare lecture me... I actually saw my G/F die in front of my own eyes 10 years ago... if someone had resurected her I would have run up to her huged and kiss her and worry about her feelings and if she was traumatized by the death. Not the BS Ashley did to Shep by calling him a traitor and breaking up with him.
How about: "Wow you saved my fanny again Shep." THATS A GOOD DAMN START!
I'm sorry for your loss. But remember, Ash didn't initially know that Shepard had been brought back from the dead. As far as she knew, Shepard had just faked his death and gone undercover (pretty standard work for a Spectre), or else faked his death and gone rogue. She doesn't want to believe that he's Cerberus, you can see and hear the emotions in her facial expressions and voice inflections. But she's trained to think of Cerberus as the enemy, and Shepard is in the employ of that enemy. She doesn't know how to reconcile that.
We already know from Mass Effect 1 that Ash isn't good at dealing with emotional issues. She formed close ties to Shepard, and then those ties got ripped apart when he died. For someone with Ashley's personality type (Normal social interaction, but introverted personal emotions), it makes sense that she built up some pretty big personal walls to deal with losing him.
So yeah, if she'd been at the meeting with the Council, and called Shepard a traitor while cool, calm, collected and in a safe location, I would agree, there wouldn't be any excuse. But since she's tired, still recovering from the stasis field, and under heavy emotional strain, I don't blame her for snapping.
#541
Posté 09 septembre 2011 - 10:07
AdmiralCheez
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From the perspective of Dick, my vanguard:
Ashley is a strong and independent woman. Good-looking in a down-to-earth way. Respected her first, befriended her second, then finally fell for her.
Miranda is a strong and independent woman. Didn't notice that at first. Saw boobies and dat ass. Not sure if want--Lawson's kind of a b*tch. Eh, hot enough to be worth it. Originally interacted with lustful intent, but came to love and respect her.
Problem: Still love both.
lol threesome?
Ashley is a strong and independent woman. Good-looking in a down-to-earth way. Respected her first, befriended her second, then finally fell for her.
Miranda is a strong and independent woman. Didn't notice that at first. Saw boobies and dat ass. Not sure if want--Lawson's kind of a b*tch. Eh, hot enough to be worth it. Originally interacted with lustful intent, but came to love and respect her.
Problem: Still love both.
lol threesome?
#542
Posté 09 septembre 2011 - 10:08
Chewin
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AdmiralCheez wrote...
lol threesome?
The answer to every problem.
#543
Posté 09 septembre 2011 - 10:09
Made Nightwing
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AdmiralCheez wrote...
From the perspective of Dick, my vanguard:
Ashley is a strong and independent woman. Good-looking in a down-to-earth way. Respected her first, befriended her second, then finally fell for her.
Miranda is a strong and independent woman. Didn't notice that at first. Saw boobies and dat ass. Not sure if want--Lawson's kind of a b*tch. Eh, hot enough to be worth it. Originally interacted with lustful intent, but came to love and respect her.
Problem: Still love both.
lol threesome?
If only Bioware would be so kind
#544
Posté 09 septembre 2011 - 10:10
ADLegend21
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lol sounds like he has the same problem as my canons.AdmiralCheez wrote...
From the perspective of Dick, my vanguard:
Ashley is a strong and independent woman. Good-looking in a down-to-earth way. Respected her first, befriended her second, then finally fell for her.
Miranda is a strong and independent woman. Didn't notice that at first. Saw boobies and dat ass. Not sure if want--Lawson's kind of a b*tch. Eh, hot enough to be worth it. Originally interacted with lustful intent, but came to love and respect her.
Problem: Still love both.
lol threesome?
#545
Posté 09 septembre 2011 - 10:13
jeweledleah
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Omega4RelayResident wrote...
Made Nightwing wrote...
Omega4RelayResident wrote...
Ashley who?
*snip*
Oh you mean the chick that dumped me on Horizon and called me a traitor and didnt care if I was traumatized after dying.... NAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!
Shepard who? Oh, you mean the inarticulate douchebag who greets the woman he loved with the words, "It's been too long, how've you been?" I don't know what planet you're from, but where I come from, something a tad more affectionate would probably be in order.
And being traumatized by the person you love dying, and carrying that grief and guilt around for two years is probably a bit worse than the trauma of getting brought back to life. Shepard kinda got the good end on that deal.
Dont you dare lecture me... I actually saw my G/F die in front of my own eyes 10 years ago... if someone had resurected her I would have run up to her huged and kiss her and worry about her feelings and if she was traumatized by the death. Not the BS Ashley did to Shep by calling him a traitor and breaking up with him.
How about: "Wow you saved my fanny again Shep." THATS A GOOD DAMN START!
do you believe in ressurection then? because sure, I'd run up to my SO in a similar situation, hug them and then once that wore off, I'd rip into him for pretending to be dead, ripping my heart to pieces, not contacting me, and then just showing up nonchalantly like nothing happened. add to that, Shepard showing up with the very same organization whose mess you've been cleaning up throughout the entire previous game, not to mention the organizations whose messes it seems Ashley is STILL cleaning up (remember - she is on Horizon becasue the tip was, Cerberus was involved in kidnaping colonies - not particularely farfetched possibility either, concidering the colonies they experimented on in ME1, kidnapped children, murdered admirals, etc)? hell, Ashley was downright civil and controlled.
that said, personaly I'd demand explanations and proof, and wouldn't just turn around and leave, but since "the plot demands" for VS to be at odds with Shepard and the scene demands to take up as little space on disk as possible, regardless of which VS we're talking about? we get a greatly homogenized and abreviated version of that argument.
P.S. lucky for me, my ME2 relationship for Joshua was a rebound fling. the problem is - will Ash actualy take him back?
Modifié par jeweledleah, 09 septembre 2011 - 10:15 .
#546
Posté 10 septembre 2011 - 12:43
nelly21
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I love it when people talk about how they would act in stressful situation. Like people who claim they would shoot a burglar in the arm if they were in that situation. No you wouldn't, You'd empty the clip because you're scared, angry and nervous all at the same time.
If your dead significant other showed up in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by al-qaeda and their first words to you were essentially: what's up? How's Life?, you'd flip out too.
If your dead significant other showed up in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by al-qaeda and their first words to you were essentially: what's up? How's Life?, you'd flip out too.
#547
Posté 10 septembre 2011 - 12:46
Omega4RelayResident
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nelly21 wrote...
I love it when people talk about how they would act in stressful situation. Like people who claim they would shoot a burglar in the arm if they were in that situation. No you wouldn't, You'd empty the clip because you're scared, angry and nervous all at the same time.
If your dead significant other showed up in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by al-qaeda and their first words to you were essentially: what's up? How's Life?, you'd flip out too.
I would have been confused yes... but I know my feelings... I am not telling you how to play your game... all I know is what kind of person I am.... and how I want to play my game.
And I am not telling people how to play theirs either... I just can see justification why Shep would not take Ashley back.
#548
Posté 10 septembre 2011 - 12:51
Omega4RelayResident
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@ jewledleah
Pretending to be dead part? Really? In the intro you tell Ash to get off the Normandy... and Joker physically SEES you get spaced. You mean to tell me Joker did not confirm Sheps death to Ash.... unlikely.
At the other parts... so i open my self up.... and all you do is flame the fact that I can relate to losing someone by mocking me with resurrection or what not? No I am putting my self in the shoes of Ash.
I just need clarification if you are flaming me or not... before I lose my temper.
Pretending to be dead part? Really? In the intro you tell Ash to get off the Normandy... and Joker physically SEES you get spaced. You mean to tell me Joker did not confirm Sheps death to Ash.... unlikely.
At the other parts... so i open my self up.... and all you do is flame the fact that I can relate to losing someone by mocking me with resurrection or what not? No I am putting my self in the shoes of Ash.
I just need clarification if you are flaming me or not... before I lose my temper.
#549
Posté 10 septembre 2011 - 12:53
Omega4RelayResident
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AdmiralCheez wrote...
From the perspective of Dick, my vanguard:
Ashley is a strong and independent woman. Good-looking in a down-to-earth way. Respected her first, befriended her second, then finally fell for her.
Miranda is a strong and independent woman. Didn't notice that at first. Saw boobies and dat ass. Not sure if want--Lawson's kind of a b*tch. Eh, hot enough to be worth it. Originally interacted with lustful intent, but came to love and respect her.
Problem: Still love both.
lol threesome?
LOLZ.... well put
#550
Posté 10 septembre 2011 - 01:17
jeweledleah
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Omega4RelayResident wrote...
@ jewledleah
Pretending to be dead part? Really? In the intro you tell Ash to get off the Normandy... and Joker physically SEES you get spaced. You mean to tell me Joker did not confirm Sheps death to Ash.... unlikely.
At the other parts... so i open my self up.... and all you do is flame the fact that I can relate to losing someone by mocking me with resurrection or what not? No I am putting my self in the shoes of Ash.
I just need clarification if you are flaming me or not... before I lose my temper.
I'm not flaming you. I'm putting myself in Ash's shoes and I'm telling you that she reacted mildly. they don't see Shepard blow up, burn up. Joker sees Shepard outside and then his pod slams shot, and then shepard starts flying. Ash? she's long out of range of the Normandy. they never found the body, they found Shepard's dog tags and maybe pieces of armor (though Liara seems to have the biggest piece in her appartment.
would you really believe ressurection before assuming faked death? the technology isn't even supposed to exist. Ashley is spiritual, but she didn't come across to me as someone who beleives in miracles. she came across as someone who is far too pragmatic for thatwhy didn't Shepard contact her? what the hell is Shepard doing buddy buddying with terrorists? is this why the body was never found? so they gave me information that Cerberus is kidnaping remote colonies and here is cerberus ship, conveniently showing up. honestly, when I'm not blaming writers for cutting corners - I blame TIM and Liara for the whole thing. TIM set up the rumors and Liara kept the truth a secret. they created an elaborate trail of misinformation, that resulted in Shepard being seen in a very very bad, deceptive light.
you have a right to be angry. that whole situation on Horizon is not exactly favorable to either of the parties. but what annoys me personaly is laying full out blame on Ash. Shepard's lines are not exactly stellar either. Where is Shepard's: "Ash, I'm so glad I got her in time, before they could take you, I missed you, I wanted to contact you, but I kept being stonewalled by everyone?" don't you think that that would have been a more apropriate reaction from someone you loved and who loved you coming back to you?
Modifié par jeweledleah, 10 septembre 2011 - 01:20 .
