1035 réponses à ce sujet

[Eyeshield21]

jtav wrote...

I don't know who I'll choose in ME3. This particular Shep bonded with Ash over being military brats and sole survivors of their units. Maybe he could keep something good in his life for once. And then Horizon happens. He regards it as a huge betrayal. Didn't she trust him? Shouldn't she of all people know about doing necessary things the Alliance would call treason?He still cares for hear, but mostly there's pain and rage. And, hey, he's going to die. Might as well have sex with the hot Cerberus officer. Only now, there are real feelings there too. And he doesn't die.

I don't bear Ash ill will. But it's complicated for Shep.

that is true, It's gonna be interesting in ME3 when it all plays out, that's for sure.

[knightnblu]

So I take it that nobody has an explanation as to why it only took 2 and 3/4 minutes for Ashley to drop Shepard like a hot potato? Am I also to assume that the argument that Ashley was overcome with emotions is also settled?

[YouthCultureForever]

1136342t54 wrote...

YouthCultureForever wrote...

Ashley questions Shepard and especially Cerberus until she completes her report and Shep's story checks out. She doesn't trust Cerberus, but she knows he doesn't share their values and agenda. She never questioned his integrity.

What would convince Shepard to work with Cerberus? They've duped him into believing they're the only option.

In a way they were the only option.

What would convince Cerberus to work with aliens? They lack integrity and are willing to do anything to get what they want, even if it involves working with aliens, those damn aliens.

Not necessarily. Cerberus wants to advance humanity in everyway possible. By ignoring other species capabilities and not using for humanity would be stupid. In a way other species are tools.  That is probably how some groups see Cerberus and they use that knowledge to understand them.

From the outside looking in? People probably think he's an Alliance traitor who faked his death to indulge his xenophobic inclinations. His image was clean after his death. He was the Alliance poster boy. And then he shows up with Cerberus...

This is quite possible. It also shows to the galaxy that the best of humanity is really a terrorist (depending on their view point).

1.No they weren't. The Alliance was setting up defense guns to protect the colonies. And if you listen to the Galatic news aboard the Citadel or Omega it wil tell you that the Council had assigned investigations of the abductions to the Salarian Special Tasks Group. Somebody was going to find out what was going on. TIM just wanted to beat everyone else to the Collector base. I know that last bit of info about the Salarians is obscure as hell, but the Alliance and the Council aren't doing nothing. Shepard has been fed that lie. 

2. Yeah thats what I mean. Working with aliens, those damn aliens, (or more accurately using them as tools) is just a way to get things they want like geth technology, insight into asari biotics, turian weaponary, Salarian intelligence etc. TIM has report from every mission Shepard takes detailing what alien is best or worst in certain situations, enemy weaknesses, how politics, technology and decisions, can be manipulated in favor of humans etc. Its not a recipricol relationship though. The aliens get nothing from Cerberus that will advance their races. And TIM takes care not to have any moles in his operations. Within that organization there aren't any non-humans working closely with vital intel.

[Iakus]

knightnblu wrote...

So I take it that nobody has an explanation as to why it only took 2 and 3/4 minutes for Ashley to drop Shepard like a hot potato? Am I also to assume that the argument that Ashley was overcome with emotions is also settled?

Not an explanation, but speculation on what kind of rumor would it take to shake Ash's faith so.  This is from a few pages back.  Kinda got buried in later discussions:

All I can think of in this regards is the rumors would say that Shepard deliberately led the Normandy into a Collector/Cerberus trap to be destroyed.  In addition, Shepard faked his own death to go over to Cerberus.  In such a case, Shepard betrayed Anderson and the Alliance (getting a highly advanced warship destroyed and Alliance personel killed, including Navigator Pressly) and betrayed her by abandoning her for Cerberus as well as endangering her personally. 

I have no idea what could get Ash to believe something like this.  Faked footage, coerced testimony, planted evidence.  It would be a massive undertaking, made more so because it must only reach certain ears.  A whisper campaign that would make Shepard's closest allies in the Citadel and Alliance doubt him, but keep his public image untarnished.

This is all pure speculation, you understand.  But if Cerberus could pin the destruction of the original Normandy on Shepard, that it was a malicious act of terorism on his part and plant "fake but credible" evidence on him, then perhaps I could see why Ash seeing Shepard on Horizon with a Cerberus ship and crew in tow might make her go fusion.  It would take a rumor of that caliber, given a long period of time to build up, to credibly get that kind of reaction from her. 

 It would also explain why the Alliance wants to interogate Shepard, why the salarian Councilor calls the rumors about Shepard "disturbing" and why Anderson can't quite bring himself to trust Shepard.

Modifié par iakus, 20 septembre 2011 - 09:28 .

[knightnblu]

While that is speculation, it is disturbing speculation. That would indeed justify Ashley's negative reaction on Horizon, at least initially. I still contend that her prior knowledge and service with Shepard should have gave her cause to think it through, but instead she just writes him off.
 
I have to admit though, given TIM's proclivity for manipulations and machinations, I wouldn't put such a thing past him. Additionally, it will be damned hard to prove your innocence if TIM really did do that to Shepard and that doesn't make the situation with Bahak any better either.

[ddv.rsa]

I wonder if the writers are aware that lots of people find the reaction of the VS on Horizon out of character, even deeply offensive. Maybe there's nothing going on with the VS except bad writing in that scene. That being the case, they may just gloss over Horizon like nothing happened.

That's one of my worst fears about ME3. How would you guys react?

[Iakus]

knightnblu wrote...

While that is speculation, it is disturbing speculation. That would indeed justify Ashley's negative reaction on Horizon, at least initially. I still contend that her prior knowledge and service with Shepard should have gave her cause to think it through, but instead she just writes him off.
 
I have to admit though, given TIM's proclivity for manipulations and machinations, I wouldn't put such a thing past him. Additionally, it will be damned hard to prove your innocence if TIM really did do that to Shepard and that doesn't make the situation with Bahak any better either.

Yeah, but I figure if Cerberus could put on a convincing enough performance, it might cause Ash to wonder if she ever really knew Shepard to begin with.  Maybe not totally convince her, but leave her enough room to doubt who is the "real" Shepard.  

[ddv.rsa]

iakus wrote...

Yeah, but I figure if Cerberus could put on a convincing enough performance, it might cause Ash to wonder if she ever really knew Shepard to begin with.  Maybe not totally convince her, but leave her enough room to doubt who is the "real" Shepard.  

Ashely isn't stupid, she knows better than to take rumors over what she's seen first hand. Look at what people were saying about her grandfather. There has to be a better explanation.

[1136342t54_]

YouthCultureForever wrote...

1.No they weren't. The Alliance was setting up defense guns to protect the colonies. And if you listen to the Galatic news aboard the Citadel or Omega it wil tell you that the Council had assigned investigations of the abductions to the Salarian Special Tasks Group. Somebody was going to find out what was going on. TIM just wanted to beat everyone else to the Collector base. I know that last bit of info about the Salarians is obscure as hell, but the Alliance and the Council aren't doing nothing. Shepard has been fed that lie. 

There were only 2 colonies with defense guns. The first was Freedoms Progress and it was handidly defeated. Horizon's weapons didn't work. Also if you played Arrival before the SM Hackett would mention how the Alliance were losing ships while trying to patrol their colonies. They just weren't sure who. The STG could have figured it out but by then it would have been too late. Hell they would need to actually have a AI and the Reaper IFF to do anything. The former they may have the latter Cerberus would need to help.

2. Yeah thats what I mean. Working with aliens, those damn aliens, (or more accurately using them as tools) is just a way to get things they want like geth technology, insight into asari biotics, turian weaponary, Salarian intelligence etc. TIM has report from every mission Shepard takes detailing what alien is best or worst in certain situations, enemy weaknesses, how politics, technology and decisions, can be manipulated in favor of humans etc. Its not a recipricol relationship though. The aliens get nothing from Cerberus that will advance their races. And TIM takes care not to have any moles in his operations. Within that organization there aren't any non-humans working closely with vital intel.

Actually most reports TIM actually figures out ways to cover art Sheps shenanigans and figure out ways to take advantage of the chaos afterwards. There are some instances where he gets tech but its usually after specifically Cerberus oriented missions.

[Iakus]

ddv.rsa wrote...

I wonder if the writers are aware that lots of people find the reaction of the VS on Horizon out of character, even deeply offensive. Maybe there's nothing going on with the VS except bad writing in that scene. That being the case, they may just gloss over Horizon like nothing happened.

That's one of my worst fears about ME3. How would you guys react?

That's my biggest fear about Ash, that it really was all just apathy on the part of the writers.  Ash is a racist.  Kaidan is a boring whiner.  We got hot new romances to pursue and a new ship full of bad****es.  I saw a tweet from someone suggesting that Ash/Kaidan will get an explanation for thier behavior in ME3.  Something on par with Liara in LOTSB.  IF true, I do wonder if that was the intention all along, or if some hurried rewrites were involved.

[Iakus]

ddv.rsa wrote...

iakus wrote...

Yeah, but I figure if Cerberus could put on a convincing enough performance, it might cause Ash to wonder if she ever really knew Shepard to begin with.  Maybe not totally convince her, but leave her enough room to doubt who is the "real" Shepard.  

Ashely isn't stupid, she knows better than to take rumors over what she's seen first hand. Look at what people were saying about her grandfather. There has to be a better explanation.

Maybe.  LIke I said, this is speculation.  I have no strong feelings for or against it.  I just think it fits.  Other ideas might too.  But Cerberus spent billions on Shepard, and more billions on a new Normandy.  What's a few tens of, millions on a subtle smear campaign in comparison?

And Shepard showing up on Horizon alongside Cerberus would be a subtle confirmation of these rumors too...

[ddv.rsa]

jreezy wrote...

ddv.rsa wrote...

iakus wrote...

Yeah, but I figure if Cerberus could put on a convincing enough performance, it might cause Ash to wonder if she ever really knew Shepard to begin with.  Maybe not totally convince her, but leave her enough room to doubt who is the "real" Shepard.  

Ashely isn't stupid, she knows better than to take rumors over what she's seen first hand. Look at what people were saying about her grandfather. There has to be a better explanation.

Does she? Horizon begs to differ.

If there's something bigger than bad writing going here, it isn't rumors. A while ago knightnblu was talking about the possibility of a new man.

[Iakus]

ddv.rsa wrote...
If there's something bigger than bad writing going here, it isn't rumors. A while ago knightnblu was talking about the possibility of a new man.

Doubt that's the case.  Whatever the reason is, it has to encompass LI and non-LI Shepards.  Otherwise I'd float my crazy theory she had Shepard's kid during the two year absence 

[ddv.rsa]

iakus wrote...

Doubt that's the case.  Whatever the reason is, it has to encompass LI and non-LI Shepards.  Otherwise I'd float my crazy theory she had Shepard's kid during the two year absence 

Ok. How's this: her association with Shepard (as a hero) is what gave her the opportunity to break free of the Williams stigma and prove herself. Perhaps she fears that same link with Shepard, now a terrorist, could be what tears her down again.

"Damn it, Shepard! Why couldn't you just stay dead!?"

[Iakus]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Ok. How's this: her association with Shepard (as a hero) is what gave her the opportunity to break free of the Williams stigma and prove herself. Perhaps she fears that same link with Shepard, now a terrorist, could be what tears her down again.

"Damn it, Shepard! Why couldn't you just stay dead!?"

Meh, if she was that afraid of stigma she'd never have joined the marines while her family name was blacklisted.  If there was political blowback from her association with Shepard, she'd just deal with it.  Ashley-style.  Which granted may cause more harm than good...

[alperez]

Knight.

On the first point, people change over time, the events and experiences they go through enforce that change, so yes while they may not experience a complete personality shift, they do in fact change.

My basic point on this issue was this, remember what Ash has gone through in the last 2 years, the death of someone she loved (if romanced) or admired (if not).

Grief, a feeling of loss, perhaps survivors guilt, these are all things that force people to change somewhat, then add in what she says in her e-mail, she is not the same person she used to be and she believes that shepard isn't the same person either.

Her own words confirm what i've suggested that she has changed and believes Shepard is changed somewhat.

When you then add in Shepard's explanation for not contacting her immediately and why working with cerberus is the best plan, it would only enforce the opinion that Shepard may not be thinking clearly or may in fact have changed irrevocably.

On your second point, why give Ash a free pass as you put it, simply put she deserves it, her reaction is a completely human one. Initially she is happy to see Shepard and in fact scolds the mechanic for not knowing just how incredible Shepard is.

It's only when she brings up why Shepard didn't seek her out and why working with cerberus is a bad idea that the situation degenerates how it does. Simply put its not just the fact that Shepard is working with cerberus or that he didn't seek Ash out, but its Shepard's explantion for both that causes her to act how she does.

If you believe a person has changed which Ash clearly believes is true of herself and shepard and then your presented with evidence that supports that view, if you then press the issue and are basically blown off and your concerns dismissed without proving those concerns baseless, then it stands to reason that you may indeed worry that your worst fears are true.

Ash does this on horizon, she calls shepard out and expresses her worst fears that Shepard is no longer the person she thought he was, shepard responds by not allieviating those fears but inflaming them, so the encounter degenerates how it does.

Later on when calmer heads have prevailed and she has had time to properly examine what shepard has said and process it more clearly, she then sends an apologetic e-mail, which while not going far enough for some, is clearly the first steps in restoring the relationship between the 2.

Your third point completely ignores the simple fact of how emotions work, just because someone can function without emotion on the battlefield doesn't mean that they aren't as much a slave to their emotions as we all are.

You bring up how she's acted on the battlefield and how she responds to the death of Kaiden as if this in some way proves that she doesn't get over emotional, but again your missing the point of the relationship between Ash and Shepard and how the events that have transpired do in fact create an emotional situation.

Losing a fellow soldier is something she has experience with, losing someone she loves is not, grieving for that person and taking almost a year just to reach a point of acceptance so you can move your life forward shows that the 2 events are completely different to Ash.

When you then add in the mere fact that Shepard has returned from the grave and is now working with people Ash is fundmentaly opposed to, then it creates another set of complicated emotions, that all in the end play into the situation on horizon.

Ash and shepard share a different emotional bond than any she shares with anyone else, whether romanced or not this is true.

She may be trained to withold her emotions on the battlefield but once off it she is as vunerable to them as the rest of us are, when those emotions placed to the test as much as they have been over the last 2 years and in the meeting on horizon, she wouldn't be able to ignore them anymore than you or i would.

You say such arguments are an insult to her character, all i can say to this if that's how you feel your completely misunderstanding her character, she isn't a robot, she's not some unemotional being or someone who's able to control her emotions at will, in fact she's one of the most emotionally complex characters in mass effect imo.

Modifié par alperez, 21 septembre 2011 - 12:20 .

[YouthCultureForever]

1136342t54 wrote...

YouthCultureForever wrote...

1.No they weren't. The Alliance was setting up defense guns to protect the colonies. And if you listen to the Galatic news aboard the Citadel or Omega it wil tell you that the Council had assigned investigations of the abductions to the Salarian Special Tasks Group. Somebody was going to find out what was going on. TIM just wanted to beat everyone else to the Collector base. I know that last bit of info about the Salarians is obscure as hell, but the Alliance and the Council aren't doing nothing. Shepard has been fed that lie. 

There were only 2 colonies with defense guns. The first was Freedoms Progress and it was handidly defeated. Horizon's weapons didn't work. Also if you played Arrival before the SM Hackett would mention how the Alliance were losing ships while trying to patrol their colonies. They just weren't sure who. The STG could have figured it out but by then it would have been too late. Hell they would need to actually have a AI and the Reaper IFF to do anything. The former they may have the latter Cerberus would need to help.

2. Yeah thats what I mean. Working with aliens, those damn aliens, (or more accurately using them as tools) is just a way to get things they want like geth technology, insight into asari biotics, turian weaponary, Salarian intelligence etc. TIM has report from every mission Shepard takes detailing what alien is best or worst in certain situations, enemy weaknesses, how politics, technology and decisions, can be manipulated in favor of humans etc. Its not a recipricol relationship though. The aliens get nothing from Cerberus that will advance their races. And TIM takes care not to have any moles in his operations. Within that organization there aren't any non-humans working closely with vital intel.

Actually most reports TIM actually figures out ways to cover art Sheps shenanigans and figure out ways to take advantage of the chaos afterwards. There are some instances where he gets tech but its usually after specifically Cerberus oriented missions.

1. I don't think there were any guns on Freedom's Progress at all actually. I don't see it in the wikia and I don't remember it from the game, so just give me a link for that. 

Anyways, the colonies going missing are in the Terminus Systems. The Alliance and the Council can't offically operate out there. But they're doing more than nothing. They are taking gradual steps and doing what they can without causing a war. If Cerberus was really worried about the welfare of the colonies they wouldn't have sat on their hands for two years. TIM even had suspicions the Collectors were behind the attacks. He doesn't share this information with anyone. His first attempt at stopping the abductions is Freedom's progress. He spent two years managing resources just to net himself a Collector base.
 
And why would it have been too late for the STG or a group like them to figure out what was going on? If offical investigators got to Freedom's progress first, before Cerberus, or looters, or salvage teams, or the quarians, they would have found Veetor and he would have told them what happened there. The Alliance would have figured things out. And they've experimented with AIs before they could have installed one on an upgraded warship for the job. Also, if it had been decided that Shepard needed more time to recover after escaping the Cerberus facility, Freedom's Progress might have been put on the back burner anyways. There is nothing substantial to suggest Ceberus is the only one who can pull this off. 

As for the Reaper IFF, Cerberus, Shepard in fact, snatched that from the Alliance too. Without their intel they wouldn't have known about it and they wouldn't have cared nearly as much if they weren't trying to get the Collector base. They always get information, hold it hostage, and claim they're the only ones who can do anything about the problem.

2. Yeah I agree, what info TIM gets from Shepard's missons is secondary, I guess I just didn't make myself clear there. But the only reason he allows aliens, or uses aliens, or works with them or whatever, the only reason they've involved is because they're "the best" and he needs the best to net the Collector base and strenghten humanity and all that. That favor isn't reciprocated. The aliens aren't promised a piece of Collector tech. They don't even realize that the base is all he's really after. But my general point was Cerberus is willing to do whatever it takes to get what they want. They aren't above hidden agendas, lying, or manipulation.

Modifié par YouthCultureForever, 21 septembre 2011 - 01:29 .

[1136342t54_]

YouthCultureForever wrote...

1. I don't think there were any guns on Freedom's Progress at all actually. I don't see it in the wikia and I don't remember it from the game, so just give me a link for that. 

http://masseffect.wi...s_and_Locations 

Anyways, the colonies going missing are in the Terminus Systems. The Alliance and the Council can't offically operate out there. But they're doing more than nothing.

Never said they were doing nothing. The Alliance and Council operate in the Terminus a lot they jsut don't do it officially.

They are taking gradual steps and doing what they can without causing a war. If Cerberus was really worried about the welfare of the colonies they wouldn't have sat on their hands for two years. TIM even had suspicions the Collectors were behind the attacks. He doesn't share this information with anyone. His first attempt at stopping the abductions is Freedom's progress. He spent two years managing resources just to net himself a Collector base.

Cerberus is worried about the colonies. Missing colonies means vanishing humans by the thousands. Vanishing humans by that amount is tantamount to a first strike in a way. Cerberus has no choice but act. Also I've never really argued this point so I'm not sure where it is coming from.

 
And why would it have been too late for the STG or a group like them to figure out what was going on? If offical investigators got to Freedom's progress first, before Cerberus, or looters, or salvage teams, or the quarians, they would have found Veetor and he would have told them what happened there. The Alliance would have figured things out.

The STG didn't get there nor did Alliance personnel. The Quarians were there but it is obvious they would have been held off by the mechs.

And they've experimented with AIs before they could have installed one on an upgraded warship for the job. Also, if it had been decided that Shepard needed more time to recover after escaping the Cerberus facility, Freedom's Progress might have been put on the back burner anyways. There is nothing substantial to suggest Ceberus is the only one who can pull this off. 

Not saying the Cerberus is the only one who can pull it off but it was the only group with the commitment and immediate resources to do it timely. The Salarians can put a AI on a ship but it takes time to build an AI and then set in moral programs. Hell they wouldn't be able to make one as good as EDI since EDI is part Reaper.

As for the Reaper IFF, Cerberus, Shepard in fact, snatched that from the Alliance too. Without their intel they wouldn't have known about it and they wouldn't have cared nearly as much if they weren't trying to get the Collector base. They always get information, hold it hostage, and claim they're the only ones who can do anything about the problem.

Prove this. The Reaper IFF was found by Cerberus alone.

2. Yeah I agree, what info TIM gets from Shepard's missons is secondary, I guess I just didn't make myself clear there. But the only reason he allows aliens, or uses aliens, or works with them or whatever, the only reason they've involved is because they're "the best" and he needs the best to net the Collector base and strenghten humanity and all that. That favor isn't reciprocated. The aliens aren't promised a piece of Collector tech. They don't even realize that the base is all he's really after. But my general point was Cerberus is willing to do whatever it takes to get what they want. They aren't above hidden agendas, lying, or manipulation.

That is what I've been saying basically.

[knightnblu]

ddv.rsa said "Maybe there's nothing going on with the VS except bad writing in that scene. That being the case, they may just gloss over Horizon like nothing happened.

That's one of my worst fears about ME3. How would you guys react?"
 
I think that there is something larger on the horizon. Something is going on behind the scenes that we are not aware of now that will be exposed in ME3. What that is, I have no idea. But I don't think that most folks are going to like it when they find out.
 
 
iakus said "Yeah, but I figure if Cerberus could put on a convincing enough performance, it might cause Ash to wonder if she ever really knew Shepard to begin with. Maybe not totally convince her, but leave her enough room to doubt who is the "real" Shepard."
 
I think that question has been running through her mind for weeks. Horizon just confirmed what she already believed. She was angry with Shepard, but also hurt. Just telling her that you were in a coma while Cerberus rebuilt you shouldn't have elicited that reaction from her. That is why I am still waiting for the other shoe to drop. There is more to this than we know.
 
 
1136342t54  said "There were only 2 colonies with defense guns. The first was Freedoms Progress and it was handidly defeated. Horizon's weapons didn't work. Also if you played Arrival before the SM Hackett would mention how the Alliance were losing ships while trying to patrol their colonies."
 
Pardon my ignorance, but where were the guns on Freedom's Progress? I didn't see any. The only guns that I saw were in Horizon.
 
 
jreezy said "I've been wondering if that could be another reason behind her behavior for a while. I hope it isn't but It kind of makes sense since she told Shepard that she moved on."
 
I came up with that theory to explain why Williams lost it on Horizon. I figured that she was young, around other people who were in prime physical condition and it had been two years and as far as I know, she never took any vows of chastity. After two years of Shep being "dead" it seemed logical to me. You may grieve for six months to a year, but eventually life goes on.
 
 
alperez Response
 
First, people do change. Their viewpoints change, their tastes change, their hairstyles change, but their core values do not change. At least, not generally speaking. If this were true, it would be impossible to know anyone because their personality would be morphing constantly as would their core values and beliefs.
 
Of all of the people that truly know Shepard, Williams has got to have the number one position (Mother Shepard aside). Williams would have known Shepard's values, his motivations, his dreams. If she didn't, then I have no idea how she could have loved him. Unless she loved him like somebody loves chocolate. If it is indeed true that Ashley did indeed love Shepard, then how could she believe that his core principles had changed so dramatically?
 
While it is certainly possible that TIM had been hard at work ruining Shep's reputation back home and passing off false rumors as intel (as I assert that he did) then Ashley's concern is justified. But concern is not slamming the door in Shepard's face. Williams only had to hear "Cerberus" and it is game over, thank you for playing. I'm sorry, but that doesn't make sense to me. It is far too quick and way out of character for Ash.
 
If you are correct, then that means that Ashley believes that Shepard's core values, his essence if you will, has done a 180 and he is now the same vile filth that work happily for Cerberus in her mind. How did she arrive at this conclusion? According to Williams, she was told by Alliance Intel certain rumors about Cerberus and Shepard being responsible for abducting the missing colonies. It is likely that there are more and worse rumors circulating about Shepard as well, all courtesy of TIM.
 
Is it any wonder why I want to feed that guy to a wood chipper?
 
"On your second point, why give Ash a free pass as you put it, simply put she deserves it, her reaction is a completely human one. Initially she is happy to see Shepard and in fact scolds the mechanic for not knowing just how incredible Shepard is."
 
I beg to differ with you. She is not happy, she is furious. Shepard can tell immediately that Ashley is not right. He can tell this from the tone of her voice, her mannerisms, her hesitation before the embrace. He knows her, and it is blatantly obvious. That one fact alone is way strange. She claims to love this man, believed him dead, heard some rumors regarding him and up he pops two years later and she is...pissed? That is non sequitur. Had she been happy followed by pissed, then all would have been right in the world. She was stone cold pissed off from jump street as soon as she saw him.
 
 "Later on when calmer heads have prevailed and she has had time to properly examine what shepard has said and process it more clearly, she then sends an apologetic e-mail, which while not going far enough for some, is clearly the first steps in restoring the relationship between the 2."
 
She didn't send that emailed abortion because she had time to reflect, she sent it because Anderson confirmed what Shepard had told her. And even after that, she could only muster a tepid apology for calling Shepard a traitor to his face, insulting his intelligence, calling him a liar, and abandoning him emotionally. How does that crap she sent by email make up for all of that? It doesn't. Not by a long shot.
 
The only way I will take Ashley back is if she is standing tall, front and center and gives me a credible explanation for her psychosis in Horizon. She was woman enough to **** me out on Horizon, she can be woman enough to explain herself to me. Otherwise she can get her ass off of my ship (presuming of course that I am in command of anything and that BioWare actually gives me this option). Somehow I doubt that I will actually be able to do that, but I would dearly love to have that option and you can bet your bottom dollar that I would certainly use it. Hell, I would even buy that option as DLC so that I can give her the boot.
 
It is surprising to me that I am still hot about what happened on Horizon, but I guess that her malfunction cut deeper than I thought. Which is the sign of a great RPG if you look at the effect it has upon you. As another poster asked me, it isn't that I don't want her back it's how she handled Horizon that rankles. If she is going to serve with me than she has to fix what she fouled up and convince me that she can still be trusted because she squandered all of the trust I had for her on Horizon.
 
As far as the emotionalism goes, that is your opinion and we will simply have to agree to disagree on that point my friend.

[Iakus]

knightnblu wrote...

I think that question has been running through her mind for weeks. Horizon just confirmed what she already believed. She was angry with Shepard, but also hurt. Just telling her that you were in a coma while Cerberus rebuilt you shouldn't have elicited that reaction from her. That is why I am still waiting for the other shoe to drop. There is more to this than we know.
She didn't send that emailed abortion because she had time to reflect, she sent it because Anderson confirmed what Shepard had told her. And even after that, she could only muster a tepid apology for calling Shepard a traitor to his face, insulting his intelligence, calling him a liar, and abandoning him emotionally. How does that crap she sent by email make up for all of that? It doesn't. Not by a long shot.

Weeks?  It could very well have been months.  Maybe longer.  Who knows how long Cerberus has been spreading these rumors?  Perhaps doctoring evidence, planting just enough evidence to not quite convince, but to make you wonder.  You know what happens when you repeat a lie often enough...
 

The only way I will take Ashley back is if she is standing tall, front and center and gives me a credible explanation for her psychosis in Horizon. She was woman enough to **** me out on Horizon, she can be woman enough to explain herself to me. Otherwise she can get her ass off of my ship (presuming of course that I am in command of anything and that BioWare actually gives me this option). Somehow I doubt that I will actually be able to do that, but I would dearly love to have that option and you can bet your bottom dollar that I would certainly use it. Hell, I would even buy that option as DLC so that I can give her the boot.
 
It is surprising to me that I am still hot about what happened on Horizon, but I guess that her malfunction cut deeper than I thought. Which is the sign of a great RPG if you look at the effect it has upon you. As another poster asked me, it isn't that I don't want her back it's how she handled Horizon that rankles. If she is going to serve with me than she has to fix what she fouled up and convince me that she can still be trusted because she squandered all of the trust I had for her on Horizon.
 
As far as the emotionalism goes, that is your opinion and we will simply have to agree to disagree on that point my friend.

Again, according to Anderson, she confirmed Shepard's story to Anderson, rather than Anderson confirming Shepard's story to her.  That by itself is good reason to hope.

I think I can still trust Ash  The Ash I knew from ME1 was passionate, but not stupid.  She had reason for acting the way she did.  Good reasons from herpov.  I'm willing to believe there's something more going on.  I hope so, anyway.  Something besides an unnecessary makeover.

Modifié par iakus, 21 septembre 2011 - 05:13 .

[snfonseka]

Nope.

[YouthCultureForever]

1136342t54 wrote...

Cerberus is worried about the colonies. Missing colonies means vanishing humans by the thousands. Vanishing humans by that amount is tantamount to a first strike in a way. Cerberus has no choice but act. Also I've never really argued this point so I'm not sure where it is coming from.

If Cerberus was really worried about the colonies they would have raised an army, not gambled on a dead soldier. They would have sprung into action a long time ago. Their main interest wasn't protecting the colonies, thus they were never the best option to save them.

 
The STG didn't get there nor did Alliance personnel. The Quarians were there but it is obvious they would have been held off by the mechs.

I don't see how you can dismiss that. Freedom's Progress was the first investigation that turned up anything useful. Cerberus was beat to the scene every other time by somebody else. If they don't get there first they have no solid leads.

I think the game would have been way more interesting and more realistic if the Alliance had gotten there before Cerberus. The investigators probably wouldn't have told Shepard anything, so he would have had go to Anderson to find out what was going on and essentially there could have been a choice. Keep working for Cerberus or go back to the Alliance. Cerberus shouldn't be on top just because the plot demands it.

Not saying the Cerberus is the only one who can pull it off but it was the only group with the commitment and immediate resources to do it timely. The Salarians can put a AI on a ship but it takes time to build an AI and then set in moral programs. Hell they wouldn't be able to make one as good as EDI since EDI is part Reaper.

Why do you think Cerberus is the only organization with Reaper tech? They salvaged it from Sovereign, plenty of other groups could have done the same and have Reaper tech too.

TIM has manipulated the entire situation, they have the resources like the IFF because they stole intel. Cerberus is the only one who can take out the Collector base timely because thats all they've been ploting to do. It was all just part of scheme to net the Collector Base, not save the colonies.

Prove this. The Reaper IFF was found by Cerberus alone.

It was an Alliance science team that determined it was an old mass accelerator that created the crater on whatever planet they were studying. Once he learned this, TIM sent a team to find the weapon and it's target. Basically, he told them to find it before the Alliance could investigate any further. I can't give Cerberus sole credit for the Reaper IFF. They stole that tech before the Alliance had a chance at it.

That is what I've been saying basically.

Originally, I said they used aliens because lacked integrity. You said, "Not nessicarily."  I'm trying to explain that they do lack integrity and use everybody any way they can.

Modifié par YouthCultureForever, 21 septembre 2011 - 03:36 .