I thought all the classes were pretty balanced really. The things that were unbalanced were DLC, namely stasis and the mattock which were both stupidly overpowered. In spite of those I think ME2 was quite easily Biowares best balanced game
Will classes be more balanced this time around?
Débuté par
Dasher1010
, juin 18 2011 11:17
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#52
Posté 19 juin 2011 - 07:50
nitrog100
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They're working on it...I'm glad they're making the Adept more powerful. It was fun to play, but powers seemed a little underwhelming in ME2.
#53
Posté 19 juin 2011 - 07:54
Kronner
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OP you should pay more attention to what the classes can actually do. The whole OP is a joke IMHO, because apparently you have no idea about the game, at all.
Modifié par Kronner, 19 juin 2011 - 08:02 .
#54
Posté 19 juin 2011 - 07:55
InvaderErl
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I would say 5/6 classes were nearly perfectly handled in ME2 (which is an improvement over ME1), the only goof up they made was having all armor types resist Biotics. This is not so much a issue with the Sentinel or Vanguard who have other tools to deal with defenses but the Adept was left a little out in the cold.
With proper squad usage, and being a good enough player, you can more than make up for this and there's a lot of cool tricks that most people don't use for whatever reason such as Biotic abilities staggering foes with defenses and Singularity draining shields but I would have personally made Throw damage Armor and Shockwave disrupt Shields and replaced Pull with Stasis (though this is a more in hindsight sort of thing considering stasis was added post release).
With proper squad usage, and being a good enough player, you can more than make up for this and there's a lot of cool tricks that most people don't use for whatever reason such as Biotic abilities staggering foes with defenses and Singularity draining shields but I would have personally made Throw damage Armor and Shockwave disrupt Shields and replaced Pull with Stasis (though this is a more in hindsight sort of thing considering stasis was added post release).
Modifié par InvaderErl, 19 juin 2011 - 07:58 .
#55
Posté 19 juin 2011 - 08:01
Dangerfoot
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My two mains were Adept and Vanguard. I did not feel weak.
#56
Posté 28 juin 2011 - 07:12
Dasher1010
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I've played through and beaten the game with 5 classes and I'm now working on my sixth.
Infiltrators are great with either he widow or shotguns in conjunction with cloak. Even though they can't use the Claymore, Infiltrators still get a ridiculous damage bonus when using shotguns with cloak. Also, both sniper rifles and incinerate help them rip through armor and disruptor ammo when maxed out does a lot of damage to shields. Their weakness against barriers is compensated for by their high weapon damage. The class shouldn't be nerfed. Just buff the rest since playing an infiltrator with shotguns is still very, very fun.
Sentinels can not only absorb a ridiculous amount of damage but they also have active powers that strip all types of defenses which no other class has. Plus they're great with shotguns when mixed in with assault armor and can use the locust when out of shotgun range. The Sentinel is overpowered since it has no weakness. The sentinel isn't so overpowered that it isn't a fun class anymore, it's just balanced for all situations.
Soldiers aren't as OP even with the +40% health bonus that they can have. Their main weakness is again barriers since concussive shot doesn't do nearly as much damage as warp and damage upgrades don't make it more powerful. On the plus side, they get both disruptor and incendiary ammo, the latter of which is better to me than concussive shot. Also, adrenaline rush has a higher damage multiplier than cloak has so a soldier can use AR with the widow do deal more damage with it then the infiltrator can and it has a cooldown that lasts three times as long. The downside is that the soldier can't use shotguns as well as the infiltrator can since the soldier uses shotguns defensively and can't advance with them in the same way that the infiltrator, vanguard and sentinel can. My advice for balancing the Soldier involves giving AR a longer cooldown so that the class no longer outsnipes the Sentinel while boosting the power of concussive shot and allowing tech upgrades to power CC up to be in line with warp. I'm not a huge fan of nerfs but AR makes picking the widow over shotguns as an infiltrator kind of pointless.
The Vanguard isn't as powerful as the top 3 classes mostly due to only being able to damage armor with incendiary ammo and not being able to deal with other defense type when other classes can usually deal with two of them. Also, it's a passive rather than active power and the vanguard mostly sticks to attacking at short range. Yes, the vanguard with the claymore can utterly destroy scions on insanity when using the reload trick. The vanguard would just be better off with a power than can damage shields or barriers and a a larger health bonus than +20% from upgrading the passive skill. Making vanguards less dependent on squadmates with active powers and giving them the same health bonus that the soldier gets would make vanguards much more popular.
Engineers are great side from having no way to bypass barriers. Still, the Engineer can just use a combat drone against Collectors and Eclipse mercs which is almost as effective. Combat drone, incinerate and overload are all excellent powers. My advice is to give the Engineer some type of power that damages barriers and make AI hacking bypass defenses since hacked YMIR mechs and Geth primes die as soon as their hacked due to a lack of shielding. Also, make cryo blast useful. I can damage organics with incinerate and synthetics with overload and both powers stun. Cryo blast is just kind of there.
Adepts need the most work. Making biotics have some sort of effect on protected enemies and some power that damages shields would easily make the Adept as powerful as the Infiltrator and Sentinel, if not more so.
So the classes could use a bit more balance. Just because you CAN play a great Adept doesn't mean that it's as easy to win as it is with a Sentinel.
Infiltrators are great with either he widow or shotguns in conjunction with cloak. Even though they can't use the Claymore, Infiltrators still get a ridiculous damage bonus when using shotguns with cloak. Also, both sniper rifles and incinerate help them rip through armor and disruptor ammo when maxed out does a lot of damage to shields. Their weakness against barriers is compensated for by their high weapon damage. The class shouldn't be nerfed. Just buff the rest since playing an infiltrator with shotguns is still very, very fun.
Sentinels can not only absorb a ridiculous amount of damage but they also have active powers that strip all types of defenses which no other class has. Plus they're great with shotguns when mixed in with assault armor and can use the locust when out of shotgun range. The Sentinel is overpowered since it has no weakness. The sentinel isn't so overpowered that it isn't a fun class anymore, it's just balanced for all situations.
Soldiers aren't as OP even with the +40% health bonus that they can have. Their main weakness is again barriers since concussive shot doesn't do nearly as much damage as warp and damage upgrades don't make it more powerful. On the plus side, they get both disruptor and incendiary ammo, the latter of which is better to me than concussive shot. Also, adrenaline rush has a higher damage multiplier than cloak has so a soldier can use AR with the widow do deal more damage with it then the infiltrator can and it has a cooldown that lasts three times as long. The downside is that the soldier can't use shotguns as well as the infiltrator can since the soldier uses shotguns defensively and can't advance with them in the same way that the infiltrator, vanguard and sentinel can. My advice for balancing the Soldier involves giving AR a longer cooldown so that the class no longer outsnipes the Sentinel while boosting the power of concussive shot and allowing tech upgrades to power CC up to be in line with warp. I'm not a huge fan of nerfs but AR makes picking the widow over shotguns as an infiltrator kind of pointless.
The Vanguard isn't as powerful as the top 3 classes mostly due to only being able to damage armor with incendiary ammo and not being able to deal with other defense type when other classes can usually deal with two of them. Also, it's a passive rather than active power and the vanguard mostly sticks to attacking at short range. Yes, the vanguard with the claymore can utterly destroy scions on insanity when using the reload trick. The vanguard would just be better off with a power than can damage shields or barriers and a a larger health bonus than +20% from upgrading the passive skill. Making vanguards less dependent on squadmates with active powers and giving them the same health bonus that the soldier gets would make vanguards much more popular.
Engineers are great side from having no way to bypass barriers. Still, the Engineer can just use a combat drone against Collectors and Eclipse mercs which is almost as effective. Combat drone, incinerate and overload are all excellent powers. My advice is to give the Engineer some type of power that damages barriers and make AI hacking bypass defenses since hacked YMIR mechs and Geth primes die as soon as their hacked due to a lack of shielding. Also, make cryo blast useful. I can damage organics with incinerate and synthetics with overload and both powers stun. Cryo blast is just kind of there.
Adepts need the most work. Making biotics have some sort of effect on protected enemies and some power that damages shields would easily make the Adept as powerful as the Infiltrator and Sentinel, if not more so.
So the classes could use a bit more balance. Just because you CAN play a great Adept doesn't mean that it's as easy to win as it is with a Sentinel.
#57
Posté 28 juin 2011 - 07:17
Parah_Salin
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Adepts need a boost, but thats just because they weren't a hole lot of fun to play in ME2.
Other than that I don't think balance matters too much since it's a single player game, and the classes are more to determine what kind of playstyle you use (Soldier for shooter style, vangaurd for gonzo-shotgun berzerker, infiltraitor for some powers+sniping, engineers for battlefield controll and lots of powers, sentinel for a more "run and gun" power user)
Other than that I don't think balance matters too much since it's a single player game, and the classes are more to determine what kind of playstyle you use (Soldier for shooter style, vangaurd for gonzo-shotgun berzerker, infiltraitor for some powers+sniping, engineers for battlefield controll and lots of powers, sentinel for a more "run and gun" power user)
#58
Posté 28 juin 2011 - 08:08
AdmiralCheez
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Personally, I like for some classes to have a higher learning curve than others (provided each is at least approachable in early gameplay so that the player doesn't give up). It makes for a greater sense of accomplishment when you've mastered it. What I really like is that each one in ME2 has a very distinctive "feel" to it, but leaves room for very unconventional builds and playstyles. I hope that's what they work on: making each class handle completely differently from the others, but giving players the option to build and play in the exact opposite direction and still be successful... with a lot of work and practice, anyway. Having to "unlearn" everything about your playstyle to adapt to your new set of toys keeps the game both challenging and interesting.
I also think that each class should have one obvious weakness that requires the player to compensate for it by working with the whole team, putting a little more focus on squad builds and control (provided they improve the AI).
Oh, and OP? Just because you played all the classes doesn't mean you're good at them. Also, stop getting so worked up over defenses. Seriously. There are ways around them, even as an Adept.
I also think that each class should have one obvious weakness that requires the player to compensate for it by working with the whole team, putting a little more focus on squad builds and control (provided they improve the AI).
Oh, and OP? Just because you played all the classes doesn't mean you're good at them. Also, stop getting so worked up over defenses. Seriously. There are ways around them, even as an Adept.
#59
Posté 28 juin 2011 - 08:21
Arrow70
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Dasher, these are your opinions, different people play diferently.
Someone who is a skilled adept can clear whole levels without firing a single shot (I recently did LotSB this way at someone's suggestion and in reality it isn't very hard and can be very fun)
The Vanguard is perfectly fine in the right hands which aparently aren't yours
Someone who is a skilled adept can clear whole levels without firing a single shot (I recently did LotSB this way at someone's suggestion and in reality it isn't very hard and can be very fun)
The Vanguard is perfectly fine in the right hands which aparently aren't yours
#60
Posté 28 juin 2011 - 08:35
sp0ck 06
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The Adept was boring and useless?
Sorry can't take anything OP said seriously
Sorry can't take anything OP said seriously
#61
Posté 28 juin 2011 - 08:40
goofyomnivore
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The Vanguard isn't as powerful as the top 3 classes
I think the Vanguard is the 2nd most powerful class (Assault Armor Sentinel is #1). Those two classes destroy missions fast and without using much/if not any cover.
I think all the classes are pretty close together. The Vanguard is insanely powerful, but it does have a steep learning curve. However Assault Armor needs to be abolished or something.
Modifié par strive, 28 juin 2011 - 08:42 .
#62
Guest_Rezources_*
Posté 28 juin 2011 - 08:45
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One play-through as each class may not be enough to have fully mastered that class. I know that sounds elitist and crappy but I know it was certainly true for me. Just because a class takes longer to understand doesn't make them weaker. In fact, it sets them apart from the rest which is something I hope they intend to do for all classes in ME3; More variation between classes.
While I really enjoyed the Vanguard and liked how different it was from all the other classes, it accomplished that by taking a good thing that made the class unique (Charge) and making it the only viable move on Insanity along with the ammo powers. They did a good job at setting this class apart from the rest, too good a job in my opinion. It's defined by Charge instead of being a biotic Soldier.
If the Engineer got some kind of barrier damaging power like you suggested than where would that leave the Adept? I think it makes sense that the Engineer's weakness is something they're logically not suited to deal with: biotics. I agree that Cryo Blast needs to be re-vamped.
I think the argument that this is all just your opinion is an unfair one. Of course it's yours, you're voicing complaints that you found to be worth voicing, just like people here are voicing counterarguments based on their opinion. However, I think the only way you'll ever be convinced that all the classes are fairly well-balanced is to tackle all the flaws you see in them head-on. Play as a shotgun Engineer and try to make up for not having an anti-barrier power, Charge things with a lot of shields as a Vanguard. See if you can't fix these flaws yourself.
While I really enjoyed the Vanguard and liked how different it was from all the other classes, it accomplished that by taking a good thing that made the class unique (Charge) and making it the only viable move on Insanity along with the ammo powers. They did a good job at setting this class apart from the rest, too good a job in my opinion. It's defined by Charge instead of being a biotic Soldier.
If the Engineer got some kind of barrier damaging power like you suggested than where would that leave the Adept? I think it makes sense that the Engineer's weakness is something they're logically not suited to deal with: biotics. I agree that Cryo Blast needs to be re-vamped.
I think the argument that this is all just your opinion is an unfair one. Of course it's yours, you're voicing complaints that you found to be worth voicing, just like people here are voicing counterarguments based on their opinion. However, I think the only way you'll ever be convinced that all the classes are fairly well-balanced is to tackle all the flaws you see in them head-on. Play as a shotgun Engineer and try to make up for not having an anti-barrier power, Charge things with a lot of shields as a Vanguard. See if you can't fix these flaws yourself.
#63
Posté 28 juin 2011 - 08:47
suprhomre
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I hope not, I want my Vanguard to be the God of war. Killing anything on the battlefield, Reapers should fear Shepard.
#64
Posté 28 juin 2011 - 08:51
Someone With Mass
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Upgrade the Charge and it'll give you 50% of your shield back every time you use it. And no powers against shields? Guess what your shotguns and SMGs are for.
#65
Posté 28 juin 2011 - 08:54
tobynator89
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One sentence people, repeat it and let it become a mantra:
YMMV!
YOUR MILAGE MAY VARY!!!
YMMV!
YOUR MILAGE MAY VARY!!!
#66
Posté 29 juin 2011 - 01:13
wilhelm Screamer
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What worries me is the fact that if all classes can now use all weapons, what merits will soldiers have now?
