310 réponses à ce sujet

[HoldenJ_C]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
 
I would LOVE to see that kind of branching storyline in ME3, but if given the choice between length and branching... I'd prefer length with branching ending scenes.

But you shouldn't have to choose, because CD Projekt RED showed it was possible to do both with The Witcher 2. 

A single playthrough of The Witcher 2 lasts over 40 hours which is longer than either Mass Effect 1 or 2 was.  So Bioware should be able to do it. 

I think Bioware's main problem is that they're not taking enough time to make these games.  I was pretty worried about ME3 whenever they original said holiday 2011, because that's not even 2 full years to develop the game.  Unlike a lot of people I was rejoicing when they announced it had been delayed to March.

And they didn't even take a year and a half to develop Dragon Age II, and we all know how that ended...

Modifié par HoldenJ_C, 19 juin 2011 - 08:09 .

[CroGamer002]

And you guys expect for me to have discussion about ME3 storyline and consequences with this title of thread?!

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Ideally I would like to see a mixture of both types of storytelling, but I know that's impractical given that to do so would take a huge amount of resources and require a game that would be, I don't know, 5 or 6 discs long. In the old days, I always dreamed of a KOTOR game that would be 3 dics - the first disc before you became a Jedi and made your morality decisions that would determine if you continued on disc 2 - light side, or disc 3 - dark side, and each disc would have different quests and dialogues and companions.... 

I would LOVE to see that kind of branching storyline in ME3, but if given the choice between length and branching... I'd prefer length with branching ending scenes.

Haha, that KOTOR idea sounds awesome - tragically it would probably never happen because of budget, but if it did...

Yeah, although I would personally prefer something with lots of branches, a combination of DA:O and Devil Survivor where you get a different intro depending on how you played ME1 and ME2, and a different endgame depending on what choices you made in ME3 would work pretty well too.

[tsunderes]

Lizardviking wrote...

Consequences?! In my Bioware game!

wait..what exactly is happening in this gif?

[Father_Jerusalem]

HoldenJ_C wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
 
I would LOVE to see that kind of branching storyline in ME3, but if given the choice between length and branching... I'd prefer length with branching ending scenes.

But you shouldn't have to choose, because CD Projekt RED showed it was possible to do both with The Witcher 2. 

A single playthrough of The Witcher 2 lasts over 40 hours which is longer than either Mass Effect 1 or 2 was.  So Bioware should be able to do it. 

I think Bioware's main problem is that they're not taking enough time to make these games.  I was pretty worried about ME3 whenever they original said holiday 2011, because that's not even 2 full years to develop the game.  Unlike a lot of people I was rejoicing when they announced it had been delayed to March.

And they didn't even take a year and a half to develop Dragon Age II, and we all know how that ended...

See what I mean? I just... Sigh.

[Pedro Costa]

HoldenJ_C wrote...
A single playthrough of The Witcher 2 lasts over 40 hours which is longer than either Mass Effect 1 or 2 was.  So Bioware should be able to do it.

Most of which is done backtracking or going from point a to point b.
And FWIW, I have six ME2 playthroughs clocked at over 35 hours, so it's close enough. And I think I heard somebody say they could do TW2 with all sidequests in 25 hours. So, don't really know what you're getting at throwing numbers. And I also remember people taking ME1 to over 40 hours length aswell.

And like Mesina said, the topic title itself is aweful.

[Marionetten]

Mesina2 wrote...

And you guys expect for me to have discussion about ME3 storyline and consequences with this title of thread?!

Better change it to "The Witcher 2 is awful but has some okay elements BioWare could salvage" just to make sure nobody will be offended. Don't forget that it's just a stupid waifu simulator only enjoyed by neckbeards and hipsters. You should have really prefaced the discussion with that, OP.

[Pedro Costa]

Marionetten wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

And you guys expect for me to have discussion about ME3 storyline and consequences with this title of thread?!

Better change it to "The Witcher 2 is awful but has some okay elements BioWare could salvage" just to make sure nobody will be offended. Don't forget that it's just a stupid waifu simulator only enjoyed by neckbeards and hipsters. You should have really prefaced the discussion with that, OP.

Oh, goodie. More elitism and patronizing BS.

God forbid a topic title called "I'd like a less linear plot progression", I mean, TW2 is the absolute pinacle of game design, how could I forget such a blatant fact, nevermind it's only an opinion, opinion which I don't even share.
But hey, twist our words all you want, the more power to you, buddy! Have lots and lots of fun! =D

[Khayness]

tsunderes wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Consequences?! In my Bioware game!

wait..what exactly is happening in this gif?

What, one should recognise the Saren gets pissed at Benezia scene even when it is played by mimes in total darkness while a storm is raging.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Marionetten wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

And you guys expect for me to have discussion about ME3 storyline and consequences with this title of thread?!

Better change it to "The Witcher 2 is awful but has some okay elements BioWare could salvage" just to make sure nobody will be offended. Don't forget that it's just a stupid waifu simulator only enjoyed by neckbeards and hipsters. You should have really prefaced the discussion with that, OP.

Or you could change it to "A discussion about branching storylines and linearality in Mass Effect 3" and not have any mentions of the Witcher in it at all.

Oh my god how hard was that to come up with? 

How's that victim complex working out for ya, Marionetten?

[Alpha-Centuri]

Mesina2 wrote...

And you guys expect for me to have discussion about ME3 storyline and consequences with this title of thread?!

Mesina, you are a smart guy, I've been reading your posts for a while now. You've no doubt seen worst titled threads that have produced substantive discussions. If you truly wanted to, yes. Yes you could discuss that.

The OP is a fan of TW2, and his original post didn't bash Mass Effect, it just stated that TW2's non-linear formula should be what RPGs should strive towards. 

edit:
I'd suggest that the OP changes the title name to "Non-Linear and Branching Paths in ME3"

Modifié par Alpha-Centuri, 19 juin 2011 - 08:25 .

[MonkeyLungs]

Phaedon wrote...

RageGT wrote...
I'd rather get lost and find my way in a complex level design than have a game taking me by the hand because it assumes I'm too dumb to find my way!

What the- ?

No one is dumb enough to never find a way. It just takes additional time and causes frustration.

Unless you think that you are dumb if you get lost, which you actually admit in a theoretical scenario just in the beginning of your post.

If the point of the level is not to be a maze and not to get you intentionally lost, then getting lost is the result of bad level design and game design in general. Why?

Because it causes frustration. It's not fun to get lost. If you want levels complex enough only because you think that the game recognizes you as smart, that's a matter of self-confidence.

And that's part of why older games are longer, terrible level design, bad voice acting, that is most of the times incomplete and resource recycling. Resource recycling everywhere.

Bioweare is horrible at level design and they recycle envirnoments like crazy in Da2. They re-use resources all the time. They make an entire game smaller than DLC for some games.

It CAN be fun to get lost in a game and have to search for your way out. But these days its all quest compass and GD minimaps.

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

HoldenJ_C wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
 
I would LOVE to see that kind of branching storyline in ME3, but if given the choice between length and branching... I'd prefer length with branching ending scenes.

But you shouldn't have to choose, because CD Projekt RED showed it was possible to do both with The Witcher 2. 

A single playthrough of The Witcher 2 lasts over 40 hours which is longer than either Mass Effect 1 or 2 was.  So Bioware should be able to do it. 

I think Bioware's main problem is that they're not taking enough time to make these games.  I was pretty worried about ME3 whenever they original said holiday 2011, because that's not even 2 full years to develop the game.  Unlike a lot of people I was rejoicing when they announced it had been delayed to March.

And they didn't even take a year and a half to develop Dragon Age II, and we all know how that ended...

Yeah, DA2 seemed to me like a game with potential to be truly great that was really hurt by a short development cycle. *Shakes fist at EA* Hopefully, since DA2 had a significantly shorter dev cycle than ME3 will, they will have enough time to polish ME3 to the extent they want to.

I think you're right about the strength of Witcher 2's storyline coming from the long development cycle. Even though the budget was only about a third of the DA2 budget, they had 4 years to work on it - if you want to see how much of a difference more time to play with makes in terms of writing and setting, look at one of the videos of the alpha/pre-alpha build from a year ago. It's probably much easier to write a branching story like that if you have that long to tweak it haha.

Modifié par DaveExclamationMarkYognaut, 19 juin 2011 - 08:29 .

[Marionetten]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

Oh, goodie. More elitism and patronizing BS.

God forbid a topic title called "I'd like a less linear plot progression", I mean, TW2 is the absolute pinacle of game design, how could I forget such a blatant fact, nevermind it's only an opinion, opinion which I don't even share.
But hey, twist our words all you want, the more power to you, buddy! Have lots and lots of fun! =D

God forbid you pull the stick out of your oversensitive bum and debate the actual topic instead of how the OP chose to label it. Too difficult? Yeah, I suppose. It's far easier to go all lunatic based on paranoid delusions and some kind of minority complex. Careful, the elitist mob is out to get you all. The OP is a shapeshifting master race informant rather than a normal gamer enjoying video games.

Modifié par Marionetten, 19 juin 2011 - 08:29 .

[Pedro Costa]

Marionetten wrote...
God forbid you pull the stick out of your oversensitive bum and debate the actual topic instead of how the OP chose to label it. Too difficult? Yeah, I suppose. It's far easier to go all lunatic based on paranoid delusions and some kind of minority complex. Careful, the elitist mob is out to get you all.

I'd wage the elitist mob is too busy trying to offend everyone who has a less biased view of the world to even try to geta rather simple point. At least it has been for the last few pages:wizard:

As I said, the more power to you, buddy!

[Father_Jerusalem]

Marionetten wrote...

DarkLord_PT wrote...

Oh, goodie. More elitism and patronizing BS.

God forbid a topic title called "I'd like a less linear plot progression", I mean, TW2 is the absolute pinacle of game design, how could I forget such a blatant fact, nevermind it's only an opinion, opinion which I don't even share.
But hey, twist our words all you want, the more power to you, buddy! Have lots and lots of fun! =D

God forbid you pull the stick out of your oversensitive bum and debate the actual topic instead of how the OP chose to label it. Too difficult? Yeah, I suppose. It's far easier to go all lunatic based on paranoid delusions and some kind of minority complex. Careful, the elitist mob is out to get you all. The OP is a shapeshifting master race informant rather than a normal gamer enjoying video games.

God forbid we have discussions on the *Mass Effect* forums about *Mass Effect* and what we are hoping for in *Mass Effect* and not how much better the Witcher is than anything that has ever existed before now.

[MonkeyLungs]

It's easier for people to fixate on TW2 which was originally only used as a comparative example. The real subject was branching narrative and how Bioware is the master of "Illusion of Choice."

[Marionetten]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

I'd wage the elitist mob is too busy trying to offend everyone who has a less biased view of the world to even try to geta rather simple point. At least it has been for the last few pages:wizard:

As I said, the more power to you, buddy!

Less biased view. Freak out over a thread title because it praises another game.

... What?

[ScepticMatt]

Phaedon wrote...
Why do you think that RPGs are less complex these days?
-snip-
They are more expensive nowadays. Modern games are far richer than older games, believe it or not. Their levels are, 90% of the time,more complex. Having two rooms not be copy-pastes is definitely complexity.

I'd rather call that variety than complexity. Anyway, some games mange to have both depth and high production values.

And more accesibility is definitely not bad, to believe otherwise makes you fall into the category of elitists who cry about the pew pews and the fact that they can play a game with out a calculator and a rulebook, for me.

Well I don't think it's fair to call everyone who likes complex game an 'elitist'. Some people just prefer it that way (e.g. me).

I still like Mass Effect, but I'd prefer less linear levels and branching stories.

Modifié par ScepticMatt, 19 juin 2011 - 08:38 .

[Marionetten]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

It's easier for people to fixate on TW2 which was originally only used as a comparative example. The real subject was branching narrative and how Bioware is the master of "Illusion of Choice."

Exactly. The OP didn't use The Witcher 2 to troll you all even if you still managed to get trolled. It's kind of funny how the mere mention of that game over here causes spontaneous ragefits.

[Pedro Costa]

Marionetten wrote...
Exactly. The OP didn't use The Witcher 2 to troll you all even if you still managed to get trolled. It's kind of funny how the mere mention of that game over here causes spontaneous ragefits.

"The new standard of Quality" If you don't see what's wrong, you don't deserve the air you breathe.

Liking a game is one thing. Passing it off as a pinacle or something when in fact that's only your opinion, is another.

Like I said, we have a "less biased view of the world". Thank you for proving my point, tho!

Keep at it, old pal! You really are a beacon of glory that us simple mortals can only dream of being!

[Alienmorph]

ME3 should become a copycat in space of "The Witcther 2"?



[/thread]

[MonkeyLungs]

The OP doesn't want ME3 to copycat TW2. The OP wants to see true BRANCHING GAMEPLAY.

Why is this so hard for so many of you to understand?

[Quyk Sylvyr]

I don't think the OP can compare the Witcher series to the Mass Effect series. From what I've seen so far, Bioware is trying to complete a seamless series from ME 1 > ME2 > ME3. This means that each "decision" has to be imported to the next game. Before the final game, Bioware couldn't deviate from one central storyline. If Bioware deviated from that too much, it would end up with a mess by the final game. As choosing 1 or 2 would have led to 1a or 1b or 2a or 2b by ME3. I expect that choices made in previous games and in ME3 will have a bigger effect during the course of ME3 as the storyline constraints have finally been lifted.

On the other hand, the Witcher 2 imported NOTHING besides a brief dialogue on the final decision from Witcher 1. I will also bet that if there is a Witcher 3, that trend will continue.

[MonkeyLungs]

Aren't they pretty much in the perfect spot in the trilogy to hit us with some truly branching gameplay?

And why not compare TW2 with ME series? Both are actiony type RPG's that have a strong focus on story and characters. In part 3 of Geralt's story CDPR is going to have to account for what happened in part 1 and 2 ...

Also most 'decisions' so far in ME have led to some emails and maybe a cameo, nothing really branching. It doesn't seem that hard to figure out how to keep track of stuff. I'm sure they make databases and flowcharts and timelines and stuff. They don't just keep it all in their heads and make a few scribbles in a notebook.