54 réponses à ce sujet

[tvr321]

Call me chauvinistic, sexist, a mysogynist, whatever, I'm entitled to my point of view. I view women as equals, but western society seems to expect men and women to be identical. We are not, we are different and we excell in different roles.

I know a lot of people reading this will agree with me, although they will probably remain silent for fear of being flamed by all the politically correct liberals here.

As a male, I just cannot believe in femshep as a soldier. A soldier, whether you want to believe women can perform any task as well as a man or not, must possess enormous physical and mental strength, a woman cannot hope to compare to a man at least in terms of the physical aspects.

An example would have been in the Shadow Broker DLC during the boss fight. TBH it was pretty cheesy anyway but throw femshep in there and it would have been downright cringeworthy.
Another would be catching a 180lb soldier + gear from falling of the platform in the C. base.

It's a shame, because I love femshep's voiceactor, the "femshep is a ****" episodes on youtube make me lol.

Oh, and "I know loads of women who could kick a man's arse"  :
1. Comparing extremes to extremes does not create a rule.
2. This statement is strongly influenced by the media's portrayal of women (female action heroes etc, basically you're a sheep).

So basically I just can't take her seriously for realism's sake.

But hey, it's just a game, right?

inb4 some butthurt female mod deletes this thread,,,

IDK, maybe your femsheps are veteran olympic lifters or something...

[Captain Crash]

Your opinion, many will disagree though.

The fact you even make the point saying "inb4 some butthurt female mod deletes this thread" already shows you created this to cause a reaction.

[tvr321]

And?

That's what forums are for...

[nranola]

Another one of these?

Well, you're entitled to your own opinion I suppose. But I believe that women are capable of being equal to men, physical strength or otherwise. It's a case to case basis. Saying that no woman, just because they're a woman, can perform such a feat is unreasonable.

[MizzNaaa]

Call me chauvinistic, sexist, a mysogynist, whatever, I'm entitled to my point of view. I view women as equals, but western society seems to expect men and women to be identical. We are not, we are different and we excell in different roles.

Unless you're talking about biological roles...name one thing men can do women can't. or vice versa. 

I know a lot of people reading this will agree with me, although they will probably remain silent for fear of being flamed by all the politically correct liberals here.

As a male, I just cannot believe in femshep as a soldier. A soldier, whether you want to believe women can perform any task as well as a man or not, must possess enormous physical and mental strength, a woman cannot hope to compare to a man at least in terms of the physical aspects.

I take it youv'e never met or seen women soldiers before. Other than the fact that your statement is absolutely degrading, on what basis -pray tell- did you make such a strong assumption that women can't hope to compare physically? 

{Many people believe that all men, as some sort of single unit, are stronger than women. And reason says that simply isn’t true. Men’s strength is just as variable as women’s. Men, on average, are bigger than women, with a higher lean body mass-to-fat ratio. But women generate the same force per unit of muscle as men. That is, muscle pound to muscle pound, women and men are similar in strength. A strong woman is strong, full stop

This observation was confirmed by a study from the US National Strength and Conditioning Foundation, which adds that although women and men have the same muscle strength, the reason many men appear stronger on the surface is because they have more muscle mass from being bigger (as opposed to muscle strength), have a higher lean body mass-to-fat ratio, and have different fat distribution in the body than women do. 

This little excerpt is taken from this article. Feel free to do more research on the subject and get your 'facts' straight.

An example would have been in the Shadow Broker DLC during the boss fight. TBH it was pretty cheesy anyway but throw femshep in there and it would have been downright cringeworthy.
Another would be catching a 180lb soldier + gear from falling of the platform in the C. base.

If we're talking about physical abilities, I already corrected you on the matter. So the answer to this line would be, if you think FemShep can do it, then neither can MaleShep since body strength is similar in both gender. And I'm completely going to ignore the fact that this is fiction, and that no human could possibly do what Shepard does in real life, so your comparison between Maleshep and FemShep is basically based on your own personal preferences.

The issue here isn't whether a woman can or cannot do the things Shepard does, the issue here is that you cannot accept the portrayal of Shepard as a woman, which is -by all means- fine. Gender customization in the game is there for a reason, to each their own. But please don't come here and start arguing about how your own personal view of Shepard is the right one and any other view on the matter is wrong, and then try to back it up with facts that can hardly be called facts as they are completely and utterly false.

Oh, and "I know loads of women who could kick a man's arse"  :
1. Comparing extremes to extremes does not create a rule.
2. This statement is strongly influenced by the media's portrayal of women (female action heroes etc, basically you're a sheep).
So basically I just can't take her seriously for realism's sake.

And a man who can 'kick arse' isn't an extreme? So are you trying to tell me that you can go do even half the thing that Shepard does?

And since I already know the answer to that question, why is it so implausible for you to see a woman do things that can't possibly happen in real life, but it's plausible for a man to do them?

Also, the statement that women can 'kick arse' is heavily influenced by media portrayal of women, but your statement that only men can be super heroes isn't? Really now?

Modifié par MizzNaaa, 19 juin 2011 - 12:37 .

[tvr321]

This observation was confirmed by a study from the US National Strength and Conditioning Foundation, which adds that although women and men have the same muscle strength, the reason many men appear stronger on the surface is because they have more muscle mass from being bigger (as opposed to muscle strength), have a higher lean body mass-to-fat ratio, and have different fat distribution in the body than women do. 

This little excerpt is taken from this article. Feel free to do more research on the subject and get your 'facts' straight.

If we're talking about physical abilities, I already corrected you on the matter. So the answer to this line would be, if you think FemShep can do it, then neither can MaleShep since body strength is similar in both gender. And I'm completely going to ignore the fact that this is fiction, and that no human could possibly do what Shepard does in real life, so your comparison between Maleshep and FemShep is basically based on your own personal preferences.

The ignorance is unbearable...

Are you s- seriously?

Maybe you should go and take some biology lessons...

Show me a video of a woman squatting 800lbs.

I'm honestly not even going to bother answering your post throughly as the piece of information you base it around is completely false.

Modifié par tvr321, 19 juin 2011 - 12:57 .

[AnimaTempli101]

I could say the same of you. That is all true, unless you have some counter-evidence.

Seriously though, I think you'd get snapped like a twig if you said that to a female soldier.

[tvr321]

AnimaTempli101 wrote...

I could say the same of you. That is all true, unless you have some counter-evidence.

Seriously though, I think you'd get snapped like a twig if you said that to a female soldier.

The reason it bothers me so much is because I do lift.

If I didn't, I doubt I would pay any attention to it at all...

[AnimaTempli101]

Sorry, what? Care to elaborate there?

[Blze001]

MizzNaaa wrote...

Unless you're talking about biological roles...name one thing men can do women can't. or vice versa. 

Actually, there are things men are better suited for than women. I'm not saying women can't do it, but they have a harder time of it. Interestingly enough, women are better suited for shooting than males. The reason is that women can rest their elbow on thier hip-bone more easily, whereas men have to hold the gun. The result is a much stable sight picture.

MizzNaaa wrote...

I take it youv'e never met or seen women soldiers before. Other than the fact that your statement is absolutely degrading, on what basis -pray tell- did you make such a strong assumption that women can't hope to compare physically?

Women can be soldiers, and they can be just as effective as men, but even the military acknowledges that a woman's physical ability is different from a mans. This is evidenced by different physical fitness standards for girls. For example: men have to run a 13:36 mile and a half while a woman of the same age has to run a 16:22.

I'm not supporting his argument, just saying there are differences. Should those differences matter? Unless you're a unit that has to do alot of really fast running and heavy lifting all day, every day, no.

Honestly, I want to see FemShep portrayed differently than MaleShep. More agile and quick, using her smaller frame to her advantage while MaleShep uses his strength.

Modifié par Blze001, 19 juin 2011 - 12:57 .

[AnimaTempli101]

Different does not equal inferior. That kind of thinking leads to a slippery slope.

[tvr321]

AnimaTempli101 wrote...

Different does not equal inferior. That kind of thinking leads to a slippery slope.

Exactly, I clearly stating that in the op...

Femi ****s can't seem to grasp this, though...

[AnimaTempli101]

But was it really prudent to say it anyway? What were you expecting when you made this?

[tvr321]

AnimaTempli101 wrote...

But was it really prudent to say it anyway? What were you expecting when you made this?

The great shltstorm of our time

[AnimaTempli101]

So why did you do it? Just to annoy others?

Modifié par AnimaTempli101, 19 juin 2011 - 01:07 .

[lazuli]

Both Shepards are essentially cyborgs at this point. Also, you can't take a tough woman seriously, but you have no problem with biotics or sexy blue fan-service?

[Interactive Civilian]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Plus I've never seen a woman capable of matching a man in physical contest that actually looked like a woman.

What an ignorant statement. There are plenty of women who can match and beat plenty of men in plenty of physical contests. It is only at the extreme ends of the bell curve where the differences lie: i.e. generally speaking the fastest man is faster than the fastest woman, the strongest man is stronger than the strongest woman, and a few other things. Mentally, there is no significant difference.

Keep in mind that 99% of the population is not superlative, and in that range, the curves of men and women are near completely overlapping.

Shepard has never been billed as the strongest human, nor the smartest human. Shepard merely has a combination of qualities that make her/him the best human for the job of saving the universe. And there is no reason to assume that such a person falls outside that 99% overlap part of the curves of abilities between males and females.

Therefore there is no objective reason to favor a male Shepard over a female Shepard and vice versa. It is only a matter of opinion and personal preference. Everyone is entitled to their own, but they are not entitled to have their preference be more valid than anyone else's.

(disclaimer: I am male; my canon Shepard is female)

[Nezzer]

Interactive Civilian wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Plus I've never seen a woman capable of matching a man in physical contest that actually looked like a woman.

What an ignorant statement. There are plenty of women who can match and beat plenty of men in plenty of physical contests. It is only at the extreme ends of the bell curve where the differences lie: i.e. generally speaking the fastest man is faster than the fastest woman, the strongest man is stronger than the strongest woman, and a few other things. Mentally, there is no significant difference.

Keep in mind that 99% of the population is not superlative, and in that range, the curves of men and women are near completely overlapping.

Shepard has never been billed as the strongest human, nor the smartest human. Shepard merely has a combination of qualities that make her/him the best human for the job of saving the universe. And there is no reason to assume that such a person falls outside that 99% overlap part of the curves of abilities between males and females.

Therefore there is no objective reason to favor a male Shepard over a female Shepard and vice versa. It is only a matter of opinion and personal preference. Everyone is entitled to their own, but they are not entitled to have their preference be more valid than anyone else's.

(disclaimer: I am male; my canon Shepard is female)

/thread

[BlackEssence]

I had beaten up a boy in school because he called me out of my name and threw the first lick for no reason. I'd say that I can surely have a say for women soldiers.

However, this thread is hilarious:

Modifié par BlackEssence, 19 juin 2011 - 04:07 .

[kglaser]

lazuli wrote...

Both Shepards are essentially cyborgs at this point. Also, you can't take a tough woman seriously, but you have no problem with biotics or sexy blue fan-service?

OMG.  Perfect.

Also, not sure if OP unusually-erudite troll or not.  But hey, entertainment is entertainment.

Modifié par kglaser, 19 juin 2011 - 04:18 .

[khevan]

Muscle is muscle. If a man and a woman were to have equal amounts of muscle, they would have equal strength.

On average men have larger frames, more muscle mass, and therefore higher "strength" than females. However, that "on average" qualification leaves alot to circumstances. If you take "the average male" and compare it to "the average female," it's a safe assumption that the male would be stronger, but it's equally safe to think that Shepard is not the "average woman." Shepard is an exceptional specimen of the human species, no matter which gender you choose as your Shepard.

And for the record, I served in the US Army for 7 years, with quite a bit of time serving near female soldiers. Serving near means not in the same unit, but close enough I could see them in action, such as on patrol in Iraq. I had a company of Military Police (MPs) in the barracks behind me, and I could often see female MP's getting their vehicles ready for a mission, including lugging heavy .50 cal machineguns and MK 19 grenade launchers, and setting those weapons up on their vehicles. Some of the women had a slightly harder time carrying those weapons, but not by much, and most of the female MP's tossed them around as easily as the men did. Yeah, I was a soldier in a foreign country. I watched the women. Sue me. I just tried not to be creepy about it *lol*

Anyways, this is a bit of a ramble, but my point is this: There have been, still are, and always will be differences between the genders. Physically, emotionally, mentally...we are not the same. BUT! (and this is a very large but...Miranda but sized but, in fact...) saying that women can't do the same job as men is ludicrious. I don't care about a person's gender. I only care if they can do the job, and most women I've seen can handle the job of a soldier as well as, or better than, many of their male counterparts. On the extreme ends of the spectrum, such as Navy Seals, or similar agencies, the ratio probably would tilt more in favor of males, simply because of our physical differences in general, but there are still plenty of women who could do that job if the Military let them. Saying that Shepard is unbelievable is being chauvinistic, even if it isn't intended hurtfully.

Just my $0.05. Inflation sucks, right?

[DoNotIngest]

I thought this would be about voice acting. Woopsiedaisy.


I suppose male superiority over women is still fairly popular; Too bad it's not kept a dirty little secret more often. I guess have a decent muscle mass like Shepard in-game is too much for any woman to hope for, regardless that we have women who can lift more & run longer than male or female Shepard in real life, due to their constant training.


-Male gamer who never plans to play a femShep (no offence, Sheploo's left his mark).




Edit: Of course, dirty little secrets aren't so fun to hide when you're an anonymous troll, of course...

Modifié par DoNotIngest, 19 juin 2011 - 05:14 .

[Spornicus]

I'm going to chalk up Femshep's feats of strength and stamina as a product of future grooming and technology. Also, it'd be very expensive to make different cutscenes for a female Shepard.

[Yuttastic]

I happen to be a US Marine and this topic has been a hot issue recently in the corps. The current outgoing Sgt Major of the Marine Corps, Sgt Maj Kent just visited my duty station on his farewell tour, and one female Marine asked him if females would ever be allowed in the infantry. His answer was an emphatic no ( He actually said" Not in my Marine Corps, lol), the reasons being that a male human being has about 20% more muscle to body mass ratio than a woman, hygienic reasons ( idk if you guys know what being a soldier is all about, but months without showers in country is pretty normal for combat troops), and a certain protective instinct males naturally feel towards females, A male will more likely take an unnecessary risk to save or protect a female in combat that could endanger the mission or other members of the squad. These are proven facts and in no way sexist, in real, actual life females have no place on the battlefield and that's just the way it is.

Having a female Sheppard in game however is a great way for Bioware to engage fans that normally wouldn't be engaged, or offer another level of immersion for female players, so in video games I feel that female soldiers do have a place.

*EDIT* I wanted to add that in realistic terms, FemShep as any of the other classes other than soldier is very plausible, even the Vangaurd we can just assume that FemShep can use her Biotic power to increase her strength.
.

Modifié par Yuttastic, 19 juin 2011 - 05:47 .