129 réponses à ce sujet

[x-Legion-x]

I say raise to to 100 just because everyone will play through ME3 over a ton of times so
atleast get to level up while you reply it over and over

[Davie McG]

Only bonuses really in me1 for it that I remember were the power gamer and super power gamer achievements.

Although it would be cool to unlock like a special weapon or armour for achieving the level cap, but for that to be implemented reaching the level cap would have to be considered an achievement and not just something that's a by-product of completing the game.

Modifié par Davie McG, 19 juin 2011 - 01:25 .

[lazuli]

x-Legion-x wrote...

I say raise to to 100 just because everyone will play through ME3 over a ton of times so
atleast get to level up while you reply it over and over

I'd rather play ME3 again and again as different classes and Shepards, though.  I've got a lot of saves to bring over from ME2. 

[Davie McG]

lazuli wrote...

x-Legion-x wrote...

I say raise to to 100 just because everyone will play through ME3 over a ton of times so
atleast get to level up while you reply it over and over

I'd rather play ME3 again and again as different classes and Shepards, though.  I've got a lot of saves to bring over from ME2. 

To be fair this is exactly what I did in ME1 in regards to 2. Only reached 60 for the first time a few weeks ago cause I was finished with ME2.

[The Spamming Troll]

id like more levels because it means im spending more time investing points and checking out my kick ass powers, and i like the fact that itll most likely take me longer to hit that higher level.

i like level 60 better then level 30.

[konfeta]

Whatever max level Bioware sets is mostly irrelevant as it is just a number. Whatever works best from the pacing perspective works best for the game. That said...

Better be reachable in 1 playthrough. Forcing XP grinds, especially in a story driven game, is an abomination. Even Diablo 3 turned away from that, and it is from the genre that is driven entirely by mass repeated genocide for loot.

Modifié par konfeta, 19 juin 2011 - 01:39 .

[RPGamer13]

We should be able to grind out levels like the good ol' days.

You can grind for levels in The Witcher, so why not a bioware game? I don't like the idea of having nothing but set enemy encounters that don't respawn.

[CajNatalie]

So if the cap was going to be Level 40... but then they decided... oh hey, let's add another 10 levels on without adjusting anything else... that would be a bad thing to some people?
Failing to comprehend. o.O

If you don't want to replay to get those levels, then don't. If you replay for any other reason, you can keep leveling up... just what the hell is so wrong with that?

Modifié par CajNatalie, 19 juin 2011 - 01:45 .

[LPPrince]

I mean damn, the game is supposed to be vastly replayable. It certainly is for me.

After a point, there is no gain for a NG+ playthrough, but in ME1, that was what, 2-4 playthroughs in?

In ME2, we had no gain for the last quarter of our FIRST playthrough. That's insane.

I'll push heavily for the level cap to be reachable in multiple playthroughs. But it better not be one or early into the second.

[konfeta]

So if the cap was going to be Level 40... but then they decided... oh hey, let's add another 10 levels on without adjusting anything else... that would be a bad thing to some people?

Yes, it would. It's an incredibly crappy feeling to finish a normal playthrough of the game and not get access to all the content because to do so you need to arbitrarily replay the game with the exact same character.

Mass Effect has no true designed replayability, it has no well made pacing for replaying the game with the same character. Unless Bioware explicitly makes New Game Plus into a secondary difficulty ala what games like Diablo do, they should not attempt to sacrifice anything from the normal playthrough.

[United_Strafes]

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

I agree with that. Power cooldowns should be separate. All biotic powers should share a cooldown, all tech powers should share a cooldown, and all ammo/weapon powers should share a cooldown. Or at least, in effort to stem power spamming, they get half the cooldown time.

So if someone uses a Biotic power with a 40 second cooldown, instead of waiting 40 seconds to use any ability, they only have to wait 20 to use Concussive Shot for example. And if Concussive had a 10 second recharge, a person would only have to wait 25 seconds to use Overload. And by that time, the biotic power would be available again.

LOL holy moly I'm glad you're not in charge that would'nt be fun at all.

[Someone With Mass]

Yeah, I'd rather take something that motivates me to make a replay with a character instead of going "Oh, now I have to do this again if I want to get to that level *sighs*".

[LPPrince]

Arcian wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

This promotes replayability and is great for NewGame+, IMO.

No, this FORCES replayability and is a terrible way to keep the experience of the game fresh.

How does it force replayability? You don't have to hit the level cap to enjoy the game(well, maybe you do. I don't, but then again, I play these games over and over and over again).

If the level cap is hit in the first playthrough, when playing the game again, there's no progression. It makes NG+ a tad pointless.

If the level cap is hit in 2 or 3 playthroughs, it means when taking advantage of NG+, there will be progression up until that point. Meaning there will always be progression, both for first playthroughs and later ones.

Of course, when you play the game a good 6 times or so, there won't be any progression, but I think most folks don't play THAT much. I'd say the average(just an estimate, I'm guessing here) is a good 2-4 per player, not counting those who never finished the game.

Bioware wants people to keep playing their games more than once. Making the level cap unreachable in one playthrough is a good way to reward those who continue.

For those who stick to one and then bounce, well....I guess I'm not on that boat. Obviously I'll disagree with it.

I should note that I'm being a little selfish here. Being that I play the games so much, I'd like a reward for continuing on past a single playthrough.

Those who play the game and put it down matter. Honestly, I do think they matter, and I do think they should be attended to, but not as much as those who are going to KEEP playing the game.

So while hitting the level cap in one playthrough might be fine for you, for me, it isn't. I respectfully disagree with you, and I want you to know that you're not wrong for having your opinion.

But I'll keep pushing for mine. Its all I can hope to do, since I feel the leveling mechanic of ME1 was superior to 2, as far as reaching the level cap is concerned.

[DaringMoosejaw]

I am so glad you guys aren't designing the game. "You know what would make Mass Effect 3 even BETTER? Grinding!".

[LPPrince]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

I am so glad you guys aren't designing the game. "You know what would make Mass Effect 3 even BETTER? Grinding!".

Eh, maybe its just me, but I consider grinding to be repeating the same quest over and over multiple times in succession for xp, which can't be done in any of the games.

I'm just saying I'd like the pacing of exp gain to be slower than it was in ME2.

[DaringMoosejaw]

LPPrince wrote...

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

I am so glad you guys aren't designing the game. "You know what would make Mass Effect 3 even BETTER? Grinding!".

Eh, maybe its just me, but I consider grinding to be repeating the same quest over and over multiple times in succession for xp, which can't be done in any of the games.

I'm just saying I'd like the pacing of exp gain to be slower than it was in ME2.

At the very least, make it achievable if you do all the sidequests. I like being at the end game and having all my abilities.

[konfeta]

If the level cap is hit in the first playthrough, when playing the game again, there's no progression. It makes NG+ a tad pointless.

What you are proposing is a crappy, lazy form of progression. It is an archaic design that makes the whole thing feel half-arsed.

If Bioware is to make a new game+ that is designed to have progression, they need to implement actual progression in it. New weapons, new armor bits, new enemies/bosses, a step up in difficulty that is beyond arbitrarily weakening your character or boosting enemy attributes. Anything less is a substandard approach that honestly shouldn't be there if it hurts the main game's pacing.

However, that sort of progression meets two problems - one is that Bioware doesn't have the resources to make it, two is that Bioware hasn't really made a game that focused primarily on character building (i.e. having a gun/enemy/etc. available in new game+ that isn't available in normal mode would basically be an insult to the large portion of the player base even moreso than having new game+ exclusive level cap).

From that perspective, I feel that Bioware should just abandon New Game + as anything other than a sandbox concept of playing through the game from the start with all your arsenal unlocked. If the game can't support a progressive New Game+, I just don't think it should even attempt to do a shadow of it if it damages the core expirience.

Modifié par konfeta, 19 juin 2011 - 02:23 .

[CajNatalie]

LMAO, people are still chanting the 'forcing replayability' thing?
You're being forced... by a video game... to doing something...?

You don't want to replay. Then don't replay (how hard is that to understand?). I've never heard of computer games doing Jedi mind tricks on people until now... maybe some people are too easily influenced by something that isn't even real...

Modifié par CajNatalie, 19 juin 2011 - 02:27 .

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

Arcian wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

This promotes replayability and is great for NewGame+, IMO.

No, this FORCES replayability and is a terrible way to keep the experience of the game fresh.

Hey Arcian,trololololololololool

[LPPrince]

konfeta wrote...

If the level cap is hit in the first playthrough, when playing the game again, there's no progression. It makes NG+ a tad pointless.

What you are proposing is a crappy, lazy form of progression. It is an archaic design that makes the whole thing feel half-arsed.

That's an opinion folks(directed at those, not you, who'll claim that to be fact).

If Bioware is to make a new game+ that is designed to have progression, they need to implement actual progression in it. New weapons, new armor bits, new enemies/bosses, a step up in difficulty that is beyond arbitrarily weakening your character or boosting enemy attributes. Anything less is a substandard approach that honestly shouldn't be there if it hurts the main game's pacing.

So...you want them to make the 2nd playthrough and onwards a completely different game.......?

However, that sort of progression meets two problems - one is that Bioware doesn't have the resources to make it, two is that Bioware hasn't really made a game that focused primarily on character building (i.e. having a gun/enemy/etc. available in new game+ that isn't available in normal mode would basically be an insult to the large portion of the player base even moreso than having new game+ exclusive level cap).

From that perspective, I feel that Bioware should just abandon New Game + as anything other than a sandbox concept of playing through the game from the start with all your arsenal unlocked. If the game can't support a progressive New Game+, I just don't think it should even attempt to do a shadow of it if it damages the core expirience.

I don't see how making the level cap reachable in more than one playthrough hurts the core experience.

Rather, I think the disagreements people have on this is built more along the lines of patience.

Some are very patient and would rather hit 60 in two or three playthroughs since they know they'll play the game that much. That and they want to see their powers and abilities progress over the course of multiple playthroughs to enrich their experience.

Some are not as patient and would rather hit 60 in one playthrough(or whatever the level cap may be. 60 in one playthrough sounds ridiculous, 30 not so much). They want to have their first endgame be at max level with all their abilities at the ready, rather than not being at top shape from the get go.

Best I can come up with right now as a compromise is similar to what ME1 did, but mixing it with ME2's.

Lets say we start at level 1, right?

Playthrough 1- Max level is 40, reachable in one playthrough if you do absolutely everything.

NG+ Playthrough 2-Max level is 60, not reachable in this playthrough even if doing everything.

NG+ Playthrough 3-Max level is 60, reachable in this playthrough.

Course, looking at that idea it sounds like it could be much better, but hey, this is off the top of my head. Not like I had time to plan that out.

Either way, I don't want to hit max level in one playthrough, that's for sure.

[BadgerladDK]

LPPrince wrote...
...
I should note that I'm being a little selfish here. Being that I play the games so much, I'd like a reward for continuing on past a single playthrough.

Those who play the game and put it down matter. Honestly, I do think they matter, and I do think they should be attended to, but not as much as those who are going to KEEP playing the game.

So while hitting the level cap in one playthrough might be fine for you, for me, it isn't. I respectfully disagree with you, and I want you to know that you're not wrong for having your opinion.

But I'll keep pushing for mine. Its all I can hope to do, since I feel the leveling mechanic of ME1 was superior to 2, as far as reaching the level cap is concerned.

You seem to be making the assumption that everyone who doesn't want to play the same character twice won't play the game several times. This is clearly a false assumption as I'm sure many people (me included) play the game several times, but with different characters, as implied by that loading screen tip about making a new Shepard in a different class or gender to experience the game in a new way.

Yes, I've done a character or two to max level in ME1 by doing a second playthrough, also fixing a few choices I was unhappy with from the first attempt. But I vastly prefer getting to see my character at its best near the end of a single playthrough.

ME2, however, and especially with the addition of the dlc missions, had you peak far too early. For me, the best compromise is that if you do absolutely everything, you hit the cap near the end, but not so late that you barely have time to play with your newfound awesomeness. That's well paced progression.

[LPPrince]

Larg_Kellein wrote...

You seem to be making the assumption that everyone who doesn't want to play the same character twice won't play the game several times.

If I implied that, I apologize. I don't feel that way at all.

[konfeta]

So...you want them to make the 2nd playthrough and onwards a completely different game.......?

Yes, or don't do it at all. If the purpose of the New Game Plus is explicitly to provide progression and to further power up a character, I expect it to be done on a high standard ala Diablo likes. With Diablo 3 coming out later this year, I expect it to be done on an extraordinary standard if it wants to even stand a chance of keeping my interest on that front. Otherwise, it will annoy me to no end from perspective of both just doing a full single playthrough per character (will feel incomplete even with 100% completion of all content) and from perspective of replaying the game with the same character multiple times (will feel like the middle ages compared to games that turned the concept into full blown game of their own).

I just don't feel its an element that should be allowed become another facet of ME's "jack of all trades" nature of being an OK shooter, an OK story driven game, and being an OK RPG. Those things can combine into a unique experience that sets ME apart from other games; but an OK new game plus feels out of place in all the wrong ways in that soup. The first two ME games demonstrated that painfully to me already (I tried doing their NG+ once each - both times felt like incredible chores with no sense of progression.)

I don't see how making the level cap reachable in more than one playthrough hurts the core experience.

It makes it feel incomplete. You did all the exploration, all the side quests, all the content - and you are staring at the game that tells you - you wanted to reap the reward of playing out a maxed out character? Shucks, go replay the exact same game again all over. Oh, and don't expect any new and exciting experiences from it, this is a just gonna be a stale grind with a pathetic fraction of the progression the first playthrough gave you.

Your compromise isn't really a compromise.

Modifié par konfeta, 19 juin 2011 - 02:52 .