288 réponses à ce sujet

[SkittlesKat96]

 They would be much better soldiers by now though and I'm sure they've changed.

That said it hasn't even been confirmed yet (and it might not be confirmed until the game comes out and people have played it, which is fine) so yeah...

[Lumikki]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Maybe a little xenophobic, but Ashley is no racist. If you want a racist, look at Saren. You know, that sadistic human-hating sociopath that the council let into the Spectres?

This is a good point. The council must value skill over political correctness in terms of picking Spectres.

Isn't that the point, they made mistake with Saren as making him Spectre. If you don't have right values when choosing, you may cause more harm than good.

Modifié par Lumikki, 20 juin 2011 - 12:52 .

[GarrusV4karian]

Why are people saying that it's not confirmed that the VS is not a spectre? It's pretty obvious already that the VS is a spectre, don't ya think?

Modifié par GarrusV4karian, 20 juin 2011 - 12:54 .

[Lumikki]

GarrusV4karian wrote...

Why are people saying that it's not confirmed that the VS is not a spectre? It's pretty obvious already that the VS is a spectre, don't ya think?

Because there is different when Bioware employer confirm something and we as player draw our own conclusions from something. Like in this case from picture. Players often assume that they conclusions are the right one, because that's what they want, when there could be other possibilities or explanations.

Modifié par Lumikki, 20 juin 2011 - 01:14 .

[Heimdall]

Lumikki wrote...

GarrusV4karian wrote...

Why are people saying that it's not confirmed that the VS is not a spectre? It's pretty obvious already that the VS is a spectre, don't ya think?

Because there is different when Bioware employer confirm something and we as player draw our own conclusions from something. Like in this case from picture. Players often assume that they conclusions are the right one, because that's what they want, when there could be other possibilities or explanations.

  I'm not sure about ashley, but I've seen pictures of Kaiden with the Spectre logo on his armor.  That doesn't seem to leave much room for debate.

[Lumikki]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Players often assume that they conclusions are the right one, because that's what they want, when there could be other possibilities or explanations.

  I'm not sure about ashley, but I've seen pictures of Kaiden with the Spectre logo on his armor.  That doesn't seem to leave much room for debate.

So, if I put police uniform on me, because I'm gonna act police in this play in theater, does that make me police?
If my husband gives me chearleader outfit for gift. *wink* Does it mean I'm chearleader?

That's what I mean people making assumptions, when there could be other possibilities. Point been it looks like that, but it's not yet confirmed.

Modifié par Lumikki, 20 juin 2011 - 02:02 .

[Heimdall]

Lumikki wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Players often assume that they conclusions are the right one, because that's what they want, when there could be other possibilities or explanations.

  I'm not sure about ashley, but I've seen pictures of Kaiden with the Spectre logo on his armor.  That doesn't seem to leave much room for debate.

So, if I put police uniform on me, because I'm gonna act police in this play in theater, does that make me police?
If my husband gives me chearleader outfit for gift. *wink* Does it mean I'm chearleader?

That's what I mean people making assumptions, when there could be other possibilities. Point been it looks like that, but it's not yet confirmed.

  Chances seem slim that Kaiden or Ashley would put on spectre armor without being a spectre.  I can't imagine a reason for them to do that.

[Lumikki]

Lord Aesir wrote...

I can't imagine a reason for them to do that.

That was my point. Just because you can't, doesn't mean the possibility doesn't exist.

How about this: *small spoiler present*

Coucil's Spectre Spepard is trial on earth. How ever, Shepard is still Spectre, may not choose what to wear there. So, as council may not be present in this trial, they could find some other more diplomatic way make they present to known. So, they give as gift Spectre armors to all heroes (Spepards squad members in ME1) who saved Citadel station. Then ask if they could wear it. It is nice armor so why not? So, this could be councils way to remind earth what Spectre's are and that council still backs them up.

Of course you can you self invent any other kind of possibilities. Some are more likely to be so, but there is allways more than one explination to something. Yes, VS been spectre is most probable explination, but it's not only possible. Including Bioware made mistake with picture. it would not even be first time they made mistakes with pictures. Not saying that they this case made.

Modifié par Lumikki, 20 juin 2011 - 03:19 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Players often assume that they conclusions are the right one, because that's what they want, when there could be other possibilities or explanations.

  I'm not sure about ashley, but I've seen pictures of Kaiden with the Spectre logo on his armor.  That doesn't seem to leave much room for debate.

So, if I put police uniform on me, because I'm gonna act police in this play in theater, does that make me police?
If my husband gives me chearleader outfit for gift. *wink* Does it mean I'm chearleader?

That's what I mean people making assumptions, when there could be other possibilities. Point been it looks like that, but it's not yet confirmed.

  Chances seem slim that Kaiden or Ashley would put on spectre armor without being a spectre.  I can't imagine a reason for them to do that.

It could be that Kaiden is one but Ash isn't.

[Chewin]

Destroy Raiden wrote...
It could be that Kaiden is one but Ash isn't.

Lord Aesir wrote...
Chances seem slim that Kaiden or Ashley would put on spectre armor without being a spectre.  I can't imagine a reason for them to do that.

I'm not sure about ashley, but I've seen pictures of Kaiden with the Spectre logo on his armor.  That doesn't seem to leave much room for debate.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE!?!!!

[GarrusV4karian]

Chewin3 wrote...

Destroy Raiden wrote...
It could be that Kaiden is one but Ash isn't.

Lord Aesir wrote...
Chances seem slim that Kaiden or Ashley would put on spectre armor without being a spectre.  I can't imagine a reason for them to do that.

I'm not sure about ashley, but I've seen pictures of Kaiden with the Spectre logo on his armor.  That doesn't seem to leave much room for debate.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE!?!!!

I know right. People are being misguided by an unknown person. it could be anyone of us.

[Whatever42]

My Shepard is a murderous, xenophobic vigilante and they made him a spectre.

[Pedro Costa]

Is it bad that I don't care what the VS is and instead am just glad that they're actually there?

[CroGamer002]

Chewin3 wrote...

Destroy Raiden wrote...
It could be that Kaiden is one but Ash isn't.

Lord Aesir wrote...
Chances seem slim that Kaiden or Ashley would put on spectre armor without being a spectre.  I can't imagine a reason for them to do that.

I'm not sure about ashley, but I've seen pictures of Kaiden with the Spectre logo on his armor.  That doesn't seem to leave much room for debate.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE!?!!!

Well he is a good kid.

[Lumikki]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

My Shepard is a murderous, xenophobic vigilante and they made him a spectre.

So, basicly same as Saren. *wink*

[1136342t54_]

Lumikki wrote...

This is a good point. The council must value skill over political correctness in terms of picking Spectres.

Isn't that the point, they made mistake with Saren as making him Spectre. If you don't have right values when choosing, you may cause more harm than good.

Spectres like Saren and Vasir saved millions of lives because they were willing to get there hands dirtier then most. Saren wasn't there top spectre for nothing. Also it isn't like he started off xenophobic. His brother was killed in the First Contact War.

Also Renegade shepard has done a lot more good then harm. A spectre can be xenophobic as long as he or she gets the job done thats whats important.

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 20 juin 2011 - 05:27 .

[Yakko77]

Eire Icon wrote...

Ok this whole Ash is a racist/xenophobe thing is ridiculous. Looking at her comments they are completely understandable given the circumstances

There is a difference between distrust and hate of a person based on there race

* She raised concerns to Shepard about allowing alien races access to systems on the Normandy. This is a valid concern and I would have been annoyed if nobody had mentioned it as it would be completely unrealistic.

* She readily admits she is not used to aliens, and it is a natural reaction to be wary of what we don't know

* Ash's comments in relation to Liara were specific to her. She is a potential rival for Shepard and a polar opposite of Ash. She also asks Shepard to go check on Liara after the Benezia incident. Hardly the actions of a racist

* On the Cerberus issue, one of the major reasons for Ash's distrust of Cerberus is the fact that it is populated by extremists and racists.

Just because Ash questioned the motives of the alien races does not mean she hates them.

It seems to me that she's just an easy target on these forums. If your looking for a racist, go talk to Grunt. He'll regularly laugh about torturing Torians or Salarian's, and even directly said "I hate Turians" - now thats racist.

Nobody really cares about that though do they !

Well said. 

Had Cerberus brought Ash back for whatever reason and expected her to work with them I think she'd have taken the Normandy SR-2 to the nearest Alliance base from the start, consequences be damned.  As much as I disliked it (especially for my Sole Survivor playthrough), Shepard works with Cerberus throughout ME2.  On Horizen, Ash (and Kai) are so upset you're with Cerberus that they barely acknowledge any gratitude or happiness that you're alive and walk away from you.

[Eurhetemec]

If Ash/Kai have become full-on SPECTREs, they'd better have gained some rather more impressive abilities than they had in ME1.

I mean, we've clashed with two other SPECTREs in the ME series - Saren, who was clearly extremely tough (admittedly enhanced by the Reapers), and Tela Vasir, who wasn't enhanced by anyone, but was utterly terrifying. We also know that Nihlus was able to single-handedly fight his way to where Saren was in approximately 1/5th the time it took Shepard and team to get there (admittedly we were level 1!), and then we know Shepard is terrifying.

So basically all previous SPECTREs have been worthy of the term "one-man army".

Will Ash/Kai be worthy of that term? I'll be shocked if so. Most likely they'll be exactly as good as every other possible squadmate. Which is to say, not very threatening without Shepard (I mean gosh, leave any squaddie you like to their own devices in ME2, or even try to control them whilst you hide - you will not be impressed with their killing-ability, I can tell you).

I guess there are probably "lesser" SPECTREs out there, so it's not completely ridiculous, but it is a little, I dunno, degrading to the concept. If they weren't permanent squadmates, and thus could be "overpowered", it might work better.

[mokponobi]

Hmm, doesn't matter that much in the end, but it IS one of the things that makes Shepard special and different, besides our own awesomeness at controlling him/her.

If Ash is a spectre and has some cool spectre powers. I will control her the whole game and pretend shep is an NPC!!

[Eurhetemec]

mokponobi wrote...

Hmm, doesn't matter that much in the end, but it IS one of the things that makes Shepard special and different, besides our own awesomeness at controlling him/her.

If Ash is a spectre and has some cool spectre powers. I will control her the whole game and pretend shep is an NPC!!

See that would be cool, or if there were separate "Ash/Kai" missions where Shep was off doing his thing elsewhere, but we won't see that. Instead I guarantee that Ash will be a fairly bog-standard Soldier party-member, just perhaps with a sort of Adrenaline-Rush type ability of her own (obviously she'd just go REALLY FAST and take less damage rather than slowing the game down). I dunno about Kai. I hope he gets upgraded to the "new" kind of Sentinel, and he could fill the missing "incredibly hard to kill" party member archetype.

[1136342t54_]

Eurhetemec wrote...

If Ash/Kai have become full-on SPECTREs, they'd better have gained some rather more impressive abilities than they had in ME1.

I mean, we've clashed with two other SPECTREs in the ME series - Saren, who was clearly extremely tough (admittedly enhanced by the Reapers), and Tela Vasir, who wasn't enhanced by anyone, but was utterly terrifying. We also know that Nihlus was able to single-handedly fight his way to where Saren was in approximately 1/5th the time it took Shepard and team to get there (admittedly we were level 1!), and then we know Shepard is terrifying.

Most SPECTREs you faced were very experienced spectres who were in the field for a long time and were some of the best anyway especially Saren.

So basically all previous SPECTREs have been worthy of the term "one-man army".

Will Ash/Kai be worthy of that term? I'll be shocked if so. Most likely they'll be exactly as good as every other possible squadmate. Which is to say, not very threatening without Shepard (I mean gosh, leave any squaddie you like to their own devices in ME2, or even try to control them whilst you hide - you will not be impressed with their killing-ability, I can tell you).

Game Mechanics doesn't count. If it did I couldn't see how the hell Garrus held off Three mercenary gangs by himself or how Zaeed took out a Turian Cruiser by himself. Actually if we go by your logic then Ashley or kaiden in ME2 are tough ass hell can take a crap load of fire and kill most enemies in a few shots. Hell Kaidens biotics could rape some of the heavier enemies.

I guess there are probably "lesser" SPECTREs out there, so it's not completely ridiculous, but it is a little, I dunno, degrading to the concept. If they weren't permanent squadmates, and thus could be "overpowered", it might work better.

Spectres aren't just straight up brute force Killers. Hell even Saren used more stealth in the novel then Shepard ever did. He even had corporations in his pocket that made it much easier for him to get the job done. Tela Vasir used the Shadow Broker to save countless lives. It may not be right but people got saved. They both are tough but they are smart enough to use other resources then there guns. Thats how I figure most Spectres to be. Very competent individuals that rather win a war without firing a gun.

[Eurhetemec]

1136342t54 wrote...

Most SPECTREs you faced were very experienced spectres who were in the field for a long time and were some of the best anyway especially Saren.

That's true, but that's all we've seen. In my post I mentioned the possibility of "lesser" SPECTREs.

Game Mechanics doesn't count. If it did I couldn't see how the hell Garrus held off Three mercenary gangs by himself or how Zaeed took out a Turian Cruiser by himself. Actually if we go by your logic then Ashley or kaiden in ME2 are tough ass hell can take a crap load of fire and kill most enemies in a few shots. Hell Kaidens biotics could rape some of the heavier enemies.

I think you're missing my point, because I confused the issue by using ME2 as an example. What I'm saying is, Ashley is likely to look pretty crummy compared to Shepard, and also only "as good" as say, James Vega, who is supposedly an "experienced soldier", not a SPECTRE-level killing machine. So I'm sad she's not a temporary companion who is actually a serious badass.

Spectres aren't just straight up brute force Killers. Hell even Saren used more stealth in the novel then Shepard ever did. He even had corporations in his pocket that made it much easier for him to get the job done. Tela Vasir used the Shadow Broker to save countless lives. It may not be right but people got saved. They both are tough but they are smart enough to use other resources then there guns. Thats how I figure most Spectres to be. Very competent individuals that rather win a war without firing a gun.

Yes, that's Saren and Tela Vasir and Shepard (and presumably Nihlus). Their resourcefulness and backup and so on are part of why they're badass - though come on - Tela Vasir could clearly kill as well as Shepard does.

So will Ash and Kaidan have that? I'll be surprised. Ashley, god bless her, she's a tough girl, a wise girl, and a good person (despite inaccurate allegations of xenophobia), but she is not a manipulator, she is not very clever, she is not a born leader, she's an ass-kicker. So as a SPECTRE, she'd certainly be missing all that sort of stuff, I would think.

I mean, could she be as badass as Shepard in a fight? Nearly, though she's not a cyborg (unlike Shepard). But that's the only place I could see her equal Shepard or really any SPECTRE.

Kaidan is similar. He's a straight-up guy, he's very very brave, and he's not stupid. However, he's also not really cunning, or manipulative, or particularly clever or insightful, nor is he again, a born leader. He's a second-string kind of guy. As a Sentinel, he could probably hold his own on the battlefield, but again, that's about the only place, and again, he's likely to seem somewhat "meh", as he'll be reduced to similar status to other NPCs.

Maybe I'm just mad because I think Garrus would have made a better SPECTRE than either of them

Modifié par Eurhetemec, 20 juin 2011 - 07:18 .

[Spectre_907]

Eurhetemec wrote...

Maybe I'm just mad because I think Garrus would have made a better SPECTRE than either of them

He would. We actually see his development with Shepard as a mentor/student relationship more than the VS. He's the character that seems the most influenced by a Spectre. I just don't see that with the VS, unless you romance them. But it is not nearly as much as with Garrus (regardless if romanced). I think at least.

Modifié par Spectre_907, 20 juin 2011 - 08:24 .

[marshalleck]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Players often assume that they conclusions are the right one, because that's what they want, when there could be other possibilities or explanations.

  I'm not sure about ashley, but I've seen pictures of Kaiden with the Spectre logo on his armor.  That doesn't seem to leave much room for debate.

So, if I put police uniform on me, because I'm gonna act police in this play in theater, does that make me police?
If my husband gives me chearleader outfit for gift. *wink* Does it mean I'm chearleader?

That's what I mean people making assumptions, when there could be other possibilities. Point been it looks like that, but it's not yet confirmed.

  Chances seem slim that Kaiden or Ashley would put on spectre armor without being a spectre.  I can't imagine a reason for them to do that.

It could be that Kaiden is one but Ash isn't.

Ashley has the Spectre logo on her gloves.