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VS Is now a Spectre?


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#276
1136342t54_

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Eurhetemec wrote...
That's true, but that's all we've seen. In my post I mentioned the possibility of "lesser" SPECTREs.

Saren was called the best of the other Spectres for a reason and Shepard killed him. That is in no way to measure an average for a Spectres effectiveness. I think that proves that not all Spectres are as equally skilled. Hell Vasir was easier to defeat then Saren and she wasn't at his level.

I think you're missing my point, because I confused the issue by using ME2 as an example. What I'm saying is, Ashley is likely to look pretty crummy compared to Shepard, and also only "as good" as say, James Vega, who is supposedly an "experienced soldier", not a SPECTRE-level killing machine. So I'm sad she's not a temporary companion who is actually a serious badass.

Ashley survived an invasion force of Geth that are smarter and more harder to kill then humans. Someone who has a survivability level similar to a survivalist Shepard. Not many people can make it out of that situation alive at all. Also you have to remember Ashley have been working in Alliance spec ops for 2 years even into the events of ME2. Its reasonable to say that she and Kaidan would obviously be grizzled veterans on the level of a N7 and we all know that N7s seem to be monitored for possible Spectre qualities.

Yes, that's Saren and Tela Vasir and Shepard (and presumably Nihlus). Their resourcefulness and backup and so on are part of why they're badass - though come on - Tela Vasir could clearly kill as well as Shepard does.

So will Ash and Kaidan have that? I'll be surprised. Ashley, god bless her, she's a tough girl, a wise girl, and a good person (despite inaccurate allegations of xenophobia), but she is not a manipulator, she is not very clever, she is not a born leader, she's an ass-kicker. So as a SPECTRE, she'd certainly be missing all that sort of stuff, I would think.

Shepard isn't like Saren when it comes to resourcefulness. Shepard is a very good negotiator and fighter but that isn't as effective as Saren being a major shareholder in a company to the point where you have a large influence over major corporations and enough wealth to hire an army of Krogan mercs. Spectres like Saren and Tela Vasir aren't like Shepard in the way they fight armies of mercs or Geth all the time. Saren is closer to Shepard's level but even he died. Using Shepard or even Saren isn't the best way to measure a Spectre's effectiveness. Tela Vasir or Nihlus maybe better but even then the only reason why they are where they are at is through years of Spectre work and Nihlus was mentored by Saren.

Also Ashley and Kaidan are ass kickers since they do assist Shepard in taking down hordes of Geth and Krogan thats good enough for me. You may say that they aren't at the level of Nihlus but remember he isn't a better combatant then Samara who technically had him on the run for weeks. I wouldn't recommend Samara for being a Spectre.

I mean, could she be as badass as Shepard in a fight? Nearly, though she's not a cyborg (unlike Shepard). But that's the only place I could see her equal Shepard or really any SPECTRE.

No one is as badass as shepard in a fight. Hell he fought a Yahg who are stronger then Krogan. Only strong biotics could likely beat shepard but thats iffy. Like I said before Ashley or Kaidan are badass but the only way they can truly shine is if they become a Spectre and actually get field experience.

Kaidan is similar. He's a straight-up guy, he's very very brave, and he's not stupid. However, he's also not really cunning, or manipulative, or particularly clever or insightful, nor is he again, a born leader. He's a second-string kind of guy. As a Sentinel, he could probably hold his own on the battlefield, but again, that's about the only place, and again, he's likely to seem somewhat "meh", as he'll be reduced to similar status to other NPCs.

Maybe I'm just mad because I think Garrus would have made a better SPECTRE than either of them ;)

Kaidan is a relatively high ranking enough officer in the Navy that its obvious other people thinks he is a good leader. There is no evidence that really goes against that.

I think you are a little mad that Garrus isn't a Spectre since I am and everyone else is. The only thing is that Ashley and Kaidan being spectres can work since they are some of the few who have the training and potential to be a good spectre. Hell they even have pretty little emotional baggage that could hold them back. Garrus would make a good Spectre but he isn't far from being Saren.

#277
BigBody26

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This is Commander Shepard and this is one of the most ignorant threads in these forums.

#278
dshoub

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During the entire cluster$#&! that is this thread, I still haven't figured out what the hell VS stands for. To nip any stupid remarks in the bud (I hope) I'm aware it's an acronym, I'm not a moron. But an acronym for what?

#279
CannonO

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Garrus would have been my guess for spectre candidacy.

#280
mineralica

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dshoub wrote...

During the entire cluster$#&! that is this thread, I still haven't figured out what the hell VS stands for. To nip any stupid remarks in the bud (I hope) I'm aware it's an acronym, I'm not a moron. But an acronym for what?

Virmire Survivor (one of two human squaddies you've chosen to save on Virmire)

#281
onebelo

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of course they will be spectres because mass effect is now about getting buddies and seeing all the same people from years ago in some random bars spread across the galaxy rather than contiunity

#282
LuPoM

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dshoub wrote...

During the entire cluster$#&! that is this thread, I still haven't figured out what the hell VS stands for. To nip any stupid remarks in the bud (I hope) I'm aware it's an acronym, I'm not a moron. But an acronym for what?


I've asked that previously in this topic aswell, and the reply was "Virmire Survivor" :P there you go, I was about like you before asking for it :D

#283
TCBC_Freak

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I'm of the mind that they may or may not be a Spectre based on some of the things you did in ME1 and 2. Also, don't forget that you can play Shep as a full on Alien hating person in ME1, less so in 2 but still with the four eyes. So the VS's lack of respect for aliens ought to have little barring.

#284
dshoub

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LuPoM wrote...

I've asked that previously in this topic aswell, and the reply was "Virmire Survivor" :P there you go, I was about like you before asking for it :D


Ahh, thank you. I was thinking V might have stood for Virmire (only thing I could think of in relation to ME1) but I was having a brain fart regarding the S.

#285
Eurhetemec

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CannonLars wrote...

Garrus would have been my guess for spectre candidacy.


...

Have you played ME1 & ME2?

Garrus explains this in-game.

First, when he was a teenage, he was considered a SPECTRE candidate, and to have special training to see if he could become one (despite all this Council bollocks about "forged in the fires of battle, not trained!".

However, his father blocked this, because he considered the SPECTREs to have too much power and to be out-of-control.

At the end of ME1, Garrus decides to try to become a SPECTRE (he may also decide to re-join C-Sec first).

Second, after Shepard "dies", Garrus gets annoyed with the Council doing nothing, and decides he doesn't want to become a SPECTRE after all, even though they were seemingly willing to make him on.

So basically he's been blocked from becoming a SPECTRE once and decided not to become one once, so whilst he's clearly at SPECTRE-level competence (as shown in the whole Archangel thing), I don't think he'll become one.

#286
CannonO

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Eurhetemec wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

Garrus would have been my guess for spectre candidacy.


...

Have you played ME1 & ME2?

Garrus explains this in-game.

First, when he was a teenage, he was considered a SPECTRE candidate, and to have special training to see if he could become one (despite all this Council bollocks about "forged in the fires of battle, not trained!".

However, his father blocked this, because he considered the SPECTREs to have too much power and to be out-of-control.

At the end of ME1, Garrus decides to try to become a SPECTRE (he may also decide to re-join C-Sec first).

Second, after Shepard "dies", Garrus gets annoyed with the Council doing nothing, and decides he doesn't want to become a SPECTRE after all, even though they were seemingly willing to make him on.

So basically he's been blocked from becoming a SPECTRE once and decided not to become one once, so whilst he's clearly at SPECTRE-level competence (as shown in the whole Archangel thing), I don't think he'll become one.


Thanks, I actually knew that stuff, but I just figured that he still could if him and Shepard are back with the Alliance and Citadel in ME3.

#287
Grunk

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On a serious note (as I'm still reading through the thread), I'm disturbed by people calling Ashley a racist. Aliens aren't races of humans, they're different species. Unless I'm a different species from human because I'm black. Xenophobe is more acceptable, but still hyperbolic.

The thing about not being able to tell the aliens from the animals was kinda messed up in connotation, but if you've never seen a radically different species from you and see an animal native to it's world beside it, but entirely unfamiliar, you wouldn't know what was what either most likely. I remember thinking the Elcoor were some kind of draft horse or something at first.

That being said, they haven't really shown us anything that makes them (or any of Shep's allies) Spectre material. Certainly they're good, possibly even elite, but aren't Spectres the elite of the elite? And I also assumed there was a huge level of trust involved, too. I dunno. I'm curious to see how it plays out.

#288
Grunk

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SeaSquared wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

I agree the VS doesn't seem like Spectre material. They've never done anything individually that would even put them on the map. Shepard did amazing things by himself during the Blitz that put him on the radar and then his leadership and capabilities made him a Spectre what does the VS have to show? They might have helped Shepard? Come on Horizon shows that they weren't able to do anything but hide and complain when the real Spectre shows up to save the day.


If Shep has the Sole survivor background (which is default BTW) then all they did was survive, thats it.

If they have Ruthless (my Main does) then they accomplish their mission with heavy casualties and commited what are essentially war crimes. While those are impressive in their own way niether sound like "spectre material"

On Eden prime Shepard lost one of his squad to a pair of recon drones, Nihlus was killed, Saren escaped with no "proof" that he was there (except the dock workers word which should have been accepted, how the f*ck would he know Saren's name and everything council?, but I digress) the beacon was destoryed after it smacked the sh!t out of Shepard.

So far Shepard was mostly a failure to some for good reason, but he had potential.


You know what, that's a good point. You've changed my mind. Thanks, that felt good.

#289
Repearized Miranda

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mineralica wrote...

dshoub wrote...

During the entire cluster$#&! that is this thread, I still haven't figured out what the hell VS stands for. To nip any stupid remarks in the bud (I hope) I'm aware it's an acronym, I'm not a moron. But an acronym for what?

Virmire Survivor (one of two human squaddies you've chosen to save on Virmire)


dsh: Don't feel bad. I didn't know that either.