288 réponses à ce sujet

[AquamanOS]

Ashley only supports saving the Council if you convinced her to be more trusting of aliens during the many conversations with her. I don't remember the entire tree but it ends with her saying something like "Huh, I guess I never thought of it like that."

Kaidan's an opposite option where you can convince him to put humanity first. That's the only way to get him to support not saving the council.

[Raizo]

This topic again.

The whole entire VS being a Spectre in ME3 really pisses me off. I still think that the ME Trilogy should have ended with Shepard being the only human Spectre in existance. If Bioware wants to create more human Spectre's then they should do so in ME4 or ME MMORPG or whatever the next ME game is going to be. I feel that having the VS be Spectre in ME3 kind of steals alot of Shepard's thunder ( especially since it a lot of gamers would not have regained thier Spectre status in Me2 and alot of rumours suggest that Shepard will be stripped of his Spectre status in ME3 for the stupid Alliance trial ).

As for thier qualifications, Kaiden dies on Virmire in all of my playthroughs, quite frankly I have not spent enough time talking to the character to say for certain whether he would make a decent Spectre or not but from talking to him in Me1 I get the impression that he has all the tools for the job, he just lacks confidense in himself ( he's happier following orders than doing the lone wolf thing or leading ). Ashley is completely diferent story, out of ME1's squadmates I could not think of a character that was less suited for the job. She's a great soldier and a lot of people give her a hard time over her mis-trust over aliens ( Ash is not a racist ) but Ash never has and will never be Spectre material. I've tried explaining this point on several occasions I never seem to do a good job of getting my point across ( due to my mediocre grasp of the English language ) but Ashley is just too narrow minded to be anything other than an Alliance soldier. She comes from a long line of Soldiers all of which have served in the Alliance. She's been trained to think a certain way by her Father and her Grandfather. She spent most of her military career being taught to think of aliens a certain way. She has spent most her time in military as grunt soldier with no real rank, her only job is to follow orders, she's not capable of thinking for herself or making really complicated decisions ( I know what I am talking about, alot of my friends entered the miltary service some of which are still there, I know how they train people to think especially thier cadets and thier low ranking soldiers ). To be blunt, Ashley is an Alliance Soldier for life, her place is with the Alliance, on the battlefield shooting stuff, maybe one day she might make an excellent Starship Captain or maybe an Admiral but those days are far, far away. Right now Ashley needs someone to give her orders because she is not capable of doing any solo work or maing any tough decisions.

[Ainmarh]

sevach wrote...

How is that racist? It's an us against them mentality, simple as that, when the chips are down she sees race as a defining factor.

"Us against them" really isn't the definition of racism. And I'm pretty certain race wasn't the defining factor at all, for that matter.

[Akizora]

Having the VS be implanted with some indoctrination device as a twist wouldn't move me, I would just yawn and shoot them in the face.

[atheelogos]

LPPrince wrote...

First off, the Spectre thing hasn't been confirmed. Its still just a rumor, albeit a rumor based on what we know thus far.

And I didn't get too far into your post and I apologize for that, but the moment I saw "racist" and "xenophobe" as factual remarks for Ash, I knew that it was best if I didn't continue reading.

Sorry about that.

I'm pretty sure its been confirmed with screen shots. You have seen Ashley with the Spectre logo on her new armor right? I doubt Bioware would put that on her without a reason.

[Made Nightwing]

Raizo wrote...

This topic again.

The whole entire VS being a Spectre in ME3 really pisses me off. I still think that the ME Trilogy should have ended with Shepard being the only human Spectre in existance. If Bioware wants to create more human Spectre's then they should do so in ME4 or ME MMORPG or whatever the next ME game is going to be. I feel that having the VS be Spectre in ME3 kind of steals alot of Shepard's thunder ( especially since it a lot of gamers would not have regained thier Spectre status in Me2 and alot of rumours suggest that Shepard will be stripped of his Spectre status in ME3 for the stupid Alliance trial ).

As for thier qualifications, Kaiden dies on Virmire in all of my playthroughs, quite frankly I have not spent enough time talking to the character to say for certain whether he would make a decent Spectre or not but from talking to him in Me1 I get the impression that he has all the tools for the job, he just lacks confidense in himself ( he's happier following orders than doing the lone wolf thing or leading ). Ashley is completely diferent story, out of ME1's squadmates I could not think of a character that was less suited for the job. She's a great soldier and a lot of people give her a hard time over her mis-trust over aliens ( Ash is not a racist ) but Ash never has and will never be Spectre material. I've tried explaining this point on several occasions I never seem to do a good job of getting my point across ( due to my mediocre grasp of the English language ) but Ashley is just too narrow minded to be anything other than an Alliance soldier. She comes from a long line of Soldiers all of which have served in the Alliance. She's been trained to think a certain way by her Father and her Grandfather. She spent most of her military career being taught to think of aliens a certain way. She has spent most her time in military as grunt soldier with no real rank, her only job is to follow orders, she's not capable of thinking for herself or making really complicated decisions ( I know what I am talking about, alot of my friends entered the miltary service some of which are still there, I know how they train people to think especially thier cadets and thier low ranking soldiers ). To be blunt, Ashley is an Alliance Soldier for life, her place is with the Alliance, on the battlefield shooting stuff, maybe one day she might make an excellent Starship Captain or maybe an Admiral but those days are far, far away. Right now Ashley needs someone to give her orders because she is not capable of doing any solo work or maing any tough decisions.

Really? Have you ever heard of the term 'A Sergeant's Fight'? It's when a battle gets so complicated that the NCO's are the ones doing the leading and making the tactical decisions, the officers are completely shut out of it.
Case in point, The Battle of Shai Kot. It's the reason that NCO's get trained so well in leadership and other tactics. As the saying goes: You want a job done well? Give it to an experienced officer. You want it done with half the effort and twice the results? Give it to a Sergeant.

In the Australian and American Armies, we de-centralize the chain of command, so that when the Company Commander, Company Executive Officer, Company First Sergeant and all the Platoon Commanders are somehow incapacitated, there will be Senior NCO's still capable of co-ordinating the fight. It sure as hell saved a lot of American lives during Fallujah.

You clearly don't as much as you think if you believe a Senior Non-Commisioned Officer like Ashley would be incapable of thinking and fighting independently. Take a look at the make up of the world's best special forces, such as the SAS, the Delta Force, the Green Berets or the SEALs. You'll find that the majority of members are NCOs, damn good ones too. These are men capable of operating on their own FOR WEEKS without being directed by Senior Officers.

So, to be quite frank, you are talking a load of horse****.

[Spectre_907]

LordEurope wrote...
Ashley is a grunt, she has no special training we know of and very little actual combat experience compared to Shepard.
Kaidens only fault is that he is by-the-book sort of guy.

That's a bit unfair to Ashley considering that her family has been blacklisted. No chance for recognition. However, Alenko and Shepard both note her abilities as exemplary and the fact that she worked with a Spectre and assisted a salarian STG, possibly leading one of their teams, says alot.

As for Kaidan: the Council and the Spectres don't care what methods are used so long as situations can be resolved, be it by the book or otherwise. That's sort of the point behind Shepard's morality and psychological profile and why he was chosen.

AquamanOS wrote...
In fact if you went Renegade route in ME2 I think it's mentioned that there are quite a few Human spectres as the human led council wants more of their agents to be their own species.

That actually happens regardless if the Council died or not.

[atheelogos]

LeVaughnX wrote...

Alright slow down a second; I know I might be getting ahead of myself but I read (in Phaedon's Blog) that it's been confermed that the VS is a Spectre....I don't really see this as true for multiple reasons... I'll get them out of the way...

-----
Ashley

1.) Is a racist.

2.) Is a xenophobe.

3.) Was completely incapable of handling two Geth in Mass Effect 1.

4.) Showed no ability to lead or command respect other than being a wannabe "Ripley".

5.) Is overly Emotional.
-----
Kaiden

1.) Is easily bothered.

2.) Is overly Emotional but to a lesser degree as Ashley.

3.) Didn't really care for the council but he wasn't a racist.

4.) Argued a little with authority?
-----
Both

1.) Couldn't handle their jobs alone in Mass Effect 1 causing the other to die; where as Shepard basically is a one man army.

2.) Neither over-came over-whelming odds.

3.) Both screwed up on Horizon (sp?).

4.) Neither seemingly collected any rational data on Horizon.

5.) Neither are capable of rational thought or logic.
-----

Now there is also one major thing that bothered me about this... They've said already that a "Luke I am your Father" type twist is going to be in the game...Well my guess is that the VS (considering the Collectors/Reapers basically left them on Horizon but took nearly everyone else) has been secretly implanted with some form of control device or implanted with some cyborgnetics in general by the Collectors and or Reapers during their time in Stasis on Horizon. So if its true that they are a Spectre (but neither really deserves it above anyone else...Zaeed should be the second Human Spectre if anything hah) then this could be the big twist.

In any-case; what do you guys think about this information? What are your opinions? I'm not looking for a rage-war or a flame-war; though the fanboys will start something I'm sure.

So mature comments only please

And Op your reasoning is way off.
Ash
"1.) Is a racist.

2.) Is a xenophobe.

4.) Showed no ability to lead or command respect other than being a wannabe "Ripley".

5.) Is overly Emotional."

1. You can play Shep as a racist.
2. You can be more xenophobic than Ashley if you want.
4. Same could be said for ruthless shep
5. You can play an overly emotional shepard if you want and the council will still make you a Spectre.

"Kaiden

1.) Is easily bothered.

2.) Is overly Emotional but to a lesser degree as Ashley.

3.) Didn't really care for the council but he wasn't a racist.

4.) Argued a little with authority?"

1. Have you played renegade shep before? Thats a person who is easily bothered. At least Kaiden doesn't hurt the people who bother him
2. Already spoke to this point
3. Shep can play a racist and hang up on the council evertime he talks to them.
4. Not sure what to say about this one....

"1.) Couldn't handle their jobs alone in Mass Effect 1 causing the other to die; where as Shepard basically is a one man army.

2.) Neither over-came over-whelming odds.

3.) Both screwed up on Horizon (sp?).

4.) Neither seemingly collected any rational data on Horizon.

5.) Neither are capable of rational thought or logic."

1. Neither can shep... That's why you have a team of people
2. Sure they did. All throughout ME1 actually.
3. You could do better without Mordin? I think not. They were blind sided. There is no way they could have prepared for that mission in the same way there is no way you can blame shep for getting knocked out during his/her first escape attempt from Dr. Amanda Kenson's base.
4. What are you talking about they confirmed the Collectors are behind the attacks and that Cerberus is working aganist them with the help of Shepard.
5. Well... yeah in ME2 that was the case wasn't it? lol

" (but neither really deserves it above anyone else" They helped Shepard stop the Reapers in ME1. I'd say they deserve it. 
Sry for any selling errors. Wrote that kinda fast.

[WidowMaker9394]

Why's everyone calling Ash a racist and a xenophobe?

She's a realist and she is bitter due to the dirt on her family's name.

[atheelogos]

WidowMaker9394 wrote...

Why's everyone calling Ash a racist and a xenophobe?

She's a realist and she is bitter due to the dirt on her family's name.

Of course your right.

[WidowMaker9394]

atheelogos wrote...

WidowMaker9394 wrote...

Why's everyone calling Ash a racist and a xenophobe?

She's a realist and she is bitter due to the dirt on her family's name.

Of course your right.

People these days have absolutely no idea what "racist" even means.

[atheelogos]

WidowMaker9394 wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

WidowMaker9394 wrote...

Why's everyone calling Ash a racist and a xenophobe?

She's a realist and she is bitter due to the dirt on her family's name.

Of course your right.

People these days have absolutely no idea what "racist" even means.

true. I was just using the word for the sake of the argument. Ya know?

[Raizo]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Raizo wrote...

This topic again.

The whole entire VS being a Spectre in ME3 really pisses me off. I still think that the ME Trilogy should have ended with Shepard being the only human Spectre in existance. If Bioware wants to create more human Spectre's then they should do so in ME4 or ME MMORPG or whatever the next ME game is going to be. I feel that having the VS be Spectre in ME3 kind of steals alot of Shepard's thunder ( especially since it a lot of gamers would not have regained thier Spectre status in Me2 and alot of rumours suggest that Shepard will be stripped of his Spectre status in ME3 for the stupid Alliance trial ).

As for thier qualifications, Kaiden dies on Virmire in all of my playthroughs, quite frankly I have not spent enough time talking to the character to say for certain whether he would make a decent Spectre or not but from talking to him in Me1 I get the impression that he has all the tools for the job, he just lacks confidense in himself ( he's happier following orders than doing the lone wolf thing or leading ). Ashley is completely diferent story, out of ME1's squadmates I could not think of a character that was less suited for the job. She's a great soldier and a lot of people give her a hard time over her mis-trust over aliens ( Ash is not a racist ) but Ash never has and will never be Spectre material. I've tried explaining this point on several occasions I never seem to do a good job of getting my point across ( due to my mediocre grasp of the English language ) but Ashley is just too narrow minded to be anything other than an Alliance soldier. She comes from a long line of Soldiers all of which have served in the Alliance. She's been trained to think a certain way by her Father and her Grandfather. She spent most of her military career being taught to think of aliens a certain way. She has spent most her time in military as grunt soldier with no real rank, her only job is to follow orders, she's not capable of thinking for herself or making really complicated decisions ( I know what I am talking about, alot of my friends entered the miltary service some of which are still there, I know how they train people to think especially thier cadets and thier low ranking soldiers ). To be blunt, Ashley is an Alliance Soldier for life, her place is with the Alliance, on the battlefield shooting stuff, maybe one day she might make an excellent Starship Captain or maybe an Admiral but those days are far, far away. Right now Ashley needs someone to give her orders because she is not capable of doing any solo work or maing any tough decisions.

Really? Have you ever heard of the term 'A Sergeant's Fight'? It's when a battle gets so complicated that the NCO's are the ones doing the leading and making the tactical decisions, the officers are completely shut out of it.
Case in point, The Battle of Shai Kot. It's the reason that NCO's get trained so well in leadership and other tactics. As the saying goes: You want a job done well? Give it to an experienced officer. You want it done with half the effort and twice the results? Give it to a Sergeant.

In the Australian and American Armies, we de-centralize the chain of command, so that when the Company Commander, Company Executive Officer, Company First Sergeant and all the Platoon Commanders are somehow incapacitated, there will be Senior NCO's still capable of co-ordinating the fight. It sure as hell saved a lot of American lives during Fallujah.

You clearly don't as much as you think if you believe a Senior Non-Commisioned Officer like Ashley would be incapable of thinking and fighting independently. Take a look at the make up of the world's best special forces, such as the SAS, the Delta Force, the Green Berets or the SEALs. You'll find that the majority of members are NCOs, damn good ones too. These are men capable of operating on their own FOR WEEKS without being directed by Senior Officers.

So, to be quite frank, you are talking a load of horse****.

You've missed my point.

Other soldier of a similar rank may be capable of leading and taking charge but Ashley isn't. Everything that we have learned about her in ME1 and ME2 suggests that she isn't capable of making those decisions yet.

[MegaBadExample]

People change. They'd both make good spectres in my opinion.

[Lumikki]

I have to agree one think, I would never seen Asley as Specter, because she was more the type shoot first ask question later. Kaidan other hand was more diplomatic and maybe had the potetential.

Ps: Kaidan is dead in my gameplay..

[atheelogos]

Lumikki wrote...

because she was more the type shoot first ask question later.

There are many different kind of Spectres. Just look at Saren. He was open in his hatred of humans and killed people when he didn't have to and the Council still adored him.

[Raizo]

MegaBadExample wrote...

People change. They'd both make good spectres in my opinion.

Only a couple of months have passed between the end of ME2 and the begining of ME3 where ashley magically turns up wearing a uniform covered in Spectre emblums to save Shepard on Earth. People grow over tiime but not that much, not that quickly. The last time we saw Ashley on Horizon, everything we learn't and saw from her seemed to suggest that nothing had changed in the 2 years between ME1 and ME2 ( besides being promoted from Gunnery Chief to Opertaions Chief ). That was 2 whole entire years where she had the potential for growth off screen and she got none and we are supposed to believe that in the space of  2 - 6 months she has suddenly gotten years worth character growth. Everything that we learn about Ashley from the talk on Horizon suggests that she still has that sam enarrow infelexible viewpoin on life, good and evil ( her inababity to see shades of grey ) and how to go about solving probelems. NOT SPECTRE MATERIAL.

[Lumikki]

atheelogos wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

because she was more the type shoot first ask question later.

There are many different kind of Spectres. Just look at Saren. He was open in his hatred of humans and killed people when he didn't have to and the Council still adored him.

Yes, but when Specter is acting behave all races, Specter should respect all races rights, not shoot others in sight because fear of what they can do later.

PS: Saren isn't good example, remember what he did.. But you are right, there is alot of different kind of specters.

[Vanguard Of Destruction]

LeVaughnX wrote...

-----
Ashley

1.) Is a racist.

2.) Is a xenophobe.

*sigh* You don't know the character at all....

Modifié par Vanguard Of Destruction, 19 juin 2011 - 12:05 .

[WidowMaker9394]

Lumikki wrote...

I have to agree one think, I would never seen Asley as Specter, because she was more the type shoot first ask question later. Kaidan other hand was more diplomatic and maybe had the potetential.

Ps: Kaidan is dead in my gameplay..

A Specter must be diplomatic or fulfill a certain criteria? Wow, I never knew that. I always assumed they were Spectres because they got the job done without giving the Council any headaches but you must be right because Saren and renegade Shepard are so diplomatic and professional.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

LeVaughnX wrote...

shnizzler93 wrote...

You mean to tell me you never heard that humans are capable of change?

My, my, I was wrong all this time...

I saw a change in Ash/Kaiden on Horizon; Ashley became a simple minded emotionally driven asswipe and Kaiden similar but at least he seems more apologetic than she did.

Sounds like someone is just a little bit butthurt that their (former) LI doesn't bow down to their Shepard all the time and has an actual mind of their own. 

[Made Nightwing]

Raizo wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

Raizo wrote...

This topic again.

The whole entire VS being a Spectre in ME3 really pisses me off. I still think that the ME Trilogy should have ended with Shepard being the only human Spectre in existance. If Bioware wants to create more human Spectre's then they should do so in ME4 or ME MMORPG or whatever the next ME game is going to be. I feel that having the VS be Spectre in ME3 kind of steals alot of Shepard's thunder ( especially since it a lot of gamers would not have regained thier Spectre status in Me2 and alot of rumours suggest that Shepard will be stripped of his Spectre status in ME3 for the stupid Alliance trial ).

As for thier qualifications, Kaiden dies on Virmire in all of my playthroughs, quite frankly I have not spent enough time talking to the character to say for certain whether he would make a decent Spectre or not but from talking to him in Me1 I get the impression that he has all the tools for the job, he just lacks confidense in himself ( he's happier following orders than doing the lone wolf thing or leading ). Ashley is completely diferent story, out of ME1's squadmates I could not think of a character that was less suited for the job. She's a great soldier and a lot of people give her a hard time over her mis-trust over aliens ( Ash is not a racist ) but Ash never has and will never be Spectre material. I've tried explaining this point on several occasions I never seem to do a good job of getting my point across ( due to my mediocre grasp of the English language ) but Ashley is just too narrow minded to be anything other than an Alliance soldier. She comes from a long line of Soldiers all of which have served in the Alliance. She's been trained to think a certain way by her Father and her Grandfather. She spent most of her military career being taught to think of aliens a certain way. She has spent most her time in military as grunt soldier with no real rank, her only job is to follow orders, she's not capable of thinking for herself or making really complicated decisions ( I know what I am talking about, alot of my friends entered the miltary service some of which are still there, I know how they train people to think especially thier cadets and thier low ranking soldiers ). To be blunt, Ashley is an Alliance Soldier for life, her place is with the Alliance, on the battlefield shooting stuff, maybe one day she might make an excellent Starship Captain or maybe an Admiral but those days are far, far away. Right now Ashley needs someone to give her orders because she is not capable of doing any solo work or maing any tough decisions.

Really? Have you ever heard of the term 'A Sergeant's Fight'? It's when a battle gets so complicated that the NCO's are the ones doing the leading and making the tactical decisions, the officers are completely shut out of it.
Case in point, The Battle of Shai Kot. It's the reason that NCO's get trained so well in leadership and other tactics. As the saying goes: You want a job done well? Give it to an experienced officer. You want it done with half the effort and twice the results? Give it to a Sergeant.

In the Australian and American Armies, we de-centralize the chain of command, so that when the Company Commander, Company Executive Officer, Company First Sergeant and all the Platoon Commanders are somehow incapacitated, there will be Senior NCO's still capable of co-ordinating the fight. It sure as hell saved a lot of American lives during Fallujah.

You clearly don't as much as you think if you believe a Senior Non-Commisioned Officer like Ashley would be incapable of thinking and fighting independently. Take a look at the make up of the world's best special forces, such as the SAS, the Delta Force, the Green Berets or the SEALs. You'll find that the majority of members are NCOs, damn good ones too. These are men capable of operating on their own FOR WEEKS without being directed by Senior Officers.

So, to be quite frank, you are talking a load of horse****.

You've missed my point.

Other soldier of a similar rank may be capable of leading and taking charge but Ashley isn't. Everything that we have learned about her in ME1 and ME2 suggests that she isn't capable of making those decisions yet.

No. What we've learned is that she's a good, capable NCO with over eight years of experience. If Captain Kirrahe dies, Ashley takes over the Salarian team and successfully leads them to complete their objective, despite heavy resistance.

[Lumikki]

WidowMaker9394 wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

I have to agree one think, I would never seen Asley as Specter, because she was more the type shoot first ask question later. Kaidan other hand was more diplomatic and maybe had the potetential.

Ps: Kaidan is dead in my gameplay..

A Specter must be diplomatic or fulfill a certain criteria? Wow, I never knew that. I always assumed they were Spectres because they got the job done without giving the Council any headaches but you must be right because Saren and renegade Shepard are so diplomatic and professional.

I never sayed Specter has to be diplomatic, but it's better if Specter is, because then situations can be solved with less violence.

[Thiev]

Lumikki wrote...
I never sayed Specter has to be diplomatic, but it's better if Specter is, because then situations can be solved with less violence.

There are different Spectres for different types of job, some may even act borderline of terrorism if the situation demands it (as long as they won't get caught in the act).

[ZLurps]

WidowMaker9394 wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

WidowMaker9394 wrote...

Why's everyone calling Ash a racist and a xenophobe?

She's a realist and she is bitter due to the dirt on her family's name.

Of course your right.

People these days have absolutely no idea what "racist" even means.

One aspect of good Sci-fi is that it makes people wonder things in real life we normally wouldn't think or notice things that we normally wouldn't notice.

From: thegamingliberty.com/index.php/2011/01/06/the-definitive-mass-effect-cast-interview-part-four/

Kimberly Brooks (Ashley)- Quite a bit, actually. Fans
seem to either love Ashley or hate her. . . there seem to be more of the
latter. This is why it especially fortunate for me that I am merely the
ACTOR that voices Ashley and I don’t take it personally when die hard
fans are passionate in expressing their feelings about Ashley and the
choices she makes.

Emphasis on that ACTOR and what she says about passionate made me wonder what kind of feedback she has received personally.
Play a racist card and hate the character but why stop there when in all righteousness you can hate her voice actress too.

We may not like it, but I think this tells something about the world at these days.